Black Parenting : CHILD SUPPORT: A TACTIC FOR SURVIVAL?

Discussion in 'Black Parenting' started by Metaverse, Dec 19, 2006.

  1. Metaverse

    Metaverse Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    “Get out!!!!!” Tanya screamed at the top of her lungs holding her newborn child Tameka close to her bosom. “M---f-ker I said get the f--- out my house!!!!” Michael the Father of little baby Tameka stood still on the couch with a confused look on his face- What is happening here? He thought to himself. Is this some postpartum **** she’s going through?

    Tanya runs to the phone and dials 911. “Come get this black muffafukka out my house! He’s beating on me!!!” She hangs up. That’s all a Black Woman has to say isn’t it. Its like a Bat signal for jail time. But Michael never once laid his hands on Tanya for any violent reasons. He just simply walked into the house and asked her why was the baby crying.

    “Tanya baby what did I do? Why are you lying on me like that? Michael said, finally getting up from the couch and reaching out to hold his new baby girl. Tanya slaps his hands down away from her and screams even louder- “nugga don’t you ever touch my baby!!!”

    Freeze. Hold that thought.

    Fast forward 5 years later. Michael and Tanya are no longer together. Michael is now paying child support. During the hearing Tanya claimed Michael was a “deadbeat Father” to which the judge nodded in agreement. She also claimed he was an abuser and a threat to her new family. This of course gave her the sympathy of the court. They threw the book at him. As a Manager of a McDonalds franchise Michael made about $2100 a month with occasional overtime. The court awarded Tanya $678.00 a month in child support.

    Now, let’s deal with this issue directly. Some Women reading this somehow feel this is fair, but it is not- Brothas are losing a terrible battle out there to this epidemic. About 3 years ago, I would never have called this an epidemic, but it is. After overhearing 2 teenage girls conversing about how they can have a baby “by” a HARDWORKING Brotha so they can get child support and not have to work, it had me thinking. We have a very serious problem here.

    Who is address the psychological issues surrounding Child Support?

    The case between Michael and Tanya is a real one. It happened to a friend of mine here in Atlanta. Michael and Tanya were together for about 4-5 years before having a child. According to Mike, it was as if, she “snapped” – one day he came home from work, and there was a different woman in the living room waiting for him.

    My theory? She planned it. All hard working, overtime working Brothas seem to be in danger these days. There are Sistahs out there who can spot you from a mile away. And before I get jumped on by the Sistahs, I must say that the reality is, Women have been too oppressed on this planet. The Black Woman is the most downtrodden Woman of all. First she gets it from the White Man at work, and then from the Black Man at home. As Men we sometimes wonder why are there so many “gold-diggers” and Women who just want to be “kept” or would scheme and plot to get into a better survival situations. Sometimes the answer is obvious. In Africa the female Lion does most of the hunting for the pride. So a Black female who schemes and plots is actually a hunter for her children. Yeah, it might make sense, but I don’t want to be the hunted either.

    The truth is, the scene between Michael and Tanya is very common. Our Brothas are being labeled “deadbeat” Fathers, or grilled for abandoning the family, when in fact in most cases- these Brothas are kicked out of the family by the female. Suddenly there is a “change of emotions” and that Woman who once loved you wants you to leave her and the baby alone. All of these lies are belivable in court of course, since the Black Man is enemy number one- and either way it goes the US Gov’t will make money off your imprisonment. Lioness or not, our Women have become the best assistants to the US Gov’t.

    As Brothas, can we do a better job at providing Food-Clothing-Shelter for our Nation and Children as a collective so that Women don’t have to use these tactics for survival?

    Do you have a solution to this problem?
     
  2. Destee

    Destee destee.com STAFF

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    Brother MetaSaience ... great contribution, thanks for sharing! This is a very hot topic, always has been. I thought i'd share a few other threads with you and the Family, where this has been discussed:

    Don't Wanna Pay Child Support ... For The Noncustodial Parents In The House

    Brother MetaSaience, i would like to caution you not to blame Sisters for the situation, that we as a people, currently face. Sisters have no control over the system that issues out these great punishments on Brothers. Sisters are often faced with the GREAT challenge of raising babies alone, with few options. It's so easy for us to move into that place, where we are actually blaming and accusing each other for our collective condition.

    I have been reading about how those who are behind in child support, can't get a passport, as well as losing other licenses, including professional ones, which contribute to their ability to pay, as well as doing prison time. This is some really deep stuff. Wait, here it is ... Passport Denial Program:


    Basically, my view is this ... Sisters and Brothers have complete control prior to that one sexual act that produces the child. By engaging in that one act, they basically relinquish control of their life, and make themselves subject to all that's been mentioned (and more). If they don't want to experience any of this stuff, then they should not partake in the act ... or do it as responsibly as possible.

    If you have sex and produce a child ... you're subject to WHATEVER comes. Period. (no puns intended ... lol)

    Therefore, i encourage us to make wise decisions before putting ourselves at the mercy of others.

    :heart:

    Destee
     
  3. robboy2003

    robboy2003 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Both sexes need to make better choices,and tighter committments. We Blacks have made some inroads in the last few years.

    All parties could wait,before starting a family,which could also give a person time to really check a potential mate out. Women, have been intuned with basic reality for a long time.

    Black men need to figure out,what rotates their world and womans world on its axis!


    Peace!


    Love her constantly,consistently,and with concern!
     
  4. mrron

    mrron Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    This post is the very first one, that I've read, that said that this practice is common. I don't really believe that the sister in the story planned this for four to five years, that's quite a stretch. Working men are definitely more desirable than non working one's. But, I being among the working one's, would credit us with having more intelligence, than to allow a devious woman to plot on us that way, although it happens. Sex leads to children, that's the norm. Both parents are then responsible. Personally, I think the games start after the child is born, because that is when the sh*t hits the fan. Many men have been known to skip town to avoid child support payments, or quit their jobs and start working under the table, to avoid wage attachments. I don't see this scam working for black women en masse.

    My first wife tried to scam me in a child support matter, after my son turned eighteen years old, and was living with me. She found out that an old child support order was still in force, and pursued it in court, claiming that I hadn't supported my son in over ten years. He had been living with me for a while, when this went down. She had a lawyer go to court and sue me for the time he lived with her. I paid her by check for many years, and then I made the mistake of paying her in cash after that. I always gave the money to my son to give to her, so he would know that I was taking care of him. His testimony in court, against his mother's, saved me from having to pay arrears for all the time I was paying her in cash. She did this during the time I had accepted the total responsibility of paying his way through college. Needless to say, it ruined an otherwise decent relationship we had up to that time.

    I am on the side of the women, when it comes to child support, because I see a lot of single female parents carrying the load all by themselves. I think most of them know that it's a long shot to make a living out of scamming men into a baby, and then child support. But I'm sure it does happen on ocassion

    As to revoking licenses, passports and possible incarceration for delinquent child support payments, it's all true. Since I work for Homeland Security, we actually do arrest individuals with warrants on them for contempt of court, based on child support violations, and their passports can be conficated to stop them from leaving the country until they make a court appearance.
     
  5. Metaverse

    Metaverse Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Peace Love and Respect Sistah Destee and Fam! Thanks so much for the comments- Thank you Mrron!

    Oh no, I can't blame our Women at all. But I must say I sympathize with the Mothers and the Fathers this issue affects. This topic has been a hot one for me for about 3 years now, most Black forums online are burning up with it. I am more interested in solutions more than anything else, so far I've noticed this issue is very emotional especially for single Mothers who aren't getting any support at all.

    I've studied the metaphysics as well as the reality of this issue. I will sound harsh and challenging, but that is only because I've counseled Women young and old about this, as well as Brothas. Let's cut thru the emotions and get down to the reality. I would call child support in the Black Community a family divider. Not only that, it is another method of sophisticated slavery.

    I've heard just about every rebuttal under the sun, and I am still waiting for someone to bring up the obvious, it seems that many of us are totally blind to the reality of this issue. When the Brothas and I have our little Barbershop talks, Child Support is usually the #1 conversation piece. I'm usually the one standing in for the intelligent Women and Mothers who just want the Men to do their part. But sometimes some of these Fathers have good points to make, and we need to take the time to listen and stop soaking our minds with the propaganda of White Media.

    The obvious point I've been waiting for is that Man and Woman by themselves have always throughout History been incapable of raising Children properly on their own. Whooaa. White Media has done a serious mindf**k on our people. So much so our entire realities have been distorted.

    The obvious point I've been waiting for is that Man and Woman by themselves have always throughout History been incapable of raising Children properly on their own.

    The Metaphysics-

    Yes some of us point the blame on our Women, and yes some of us point the blame on our Men. We fold in 4 fingers in order to point blame at someone, yet the hand does not operate with one finger alone, the hand operates with 5 fingers- 5 fingers that represent the entire community. Hold your hand up and you will see for yourself, the thumb that seems to be laying down in the ground represents our departed Ancestors who remain with us still. The index finger, ironically called the pointer- is the female. The middle finger, the phallus is the male. Notice which fingers we can cross easily- the index and the middle. The 4th finger is the ring finger, and the last is the child, the pinky or baby finger.

    It takes a village to raise a child. Do we really believe in that? I hear so many people saying it, but these same people also point the finger and the Man and Woman for being solely responsible for the raising of OUR children. The ring finger represents an Elder, it could be an Elder child, Parent, Grandmother or Grandfather who is usually the caretaker of the Child. This idea could also correct our perception about marriage. On the hand, the Male or middle finger is grounded between 2 fingers on either side. He is as close to this Female/the index- as he is to the - the ring finger. Culturally, Marriages are arranged by the Elders or Parents, for the purpose of producing a child of a particular character.

    The Reality -

    We do not make Children for ourselves. This is something Africans in America will have to re-member. But to raise them takes the effort of everyone. We are allowing our emotions to blind us from overstanding this issue. When P. Diddy was "charged" to pay somewhere in the neighborhood of $21,000-$34,000 a month for his son, I didn't hear anyone say- at that rate why doesn't he get custody of his son? Hell, I know a whole block would raise his child for that kind of money. Community.

    I guess it makes better sense for a Wealthy Man to pay an Ex Child Support than for that Man to raise his child?

    I guess it also makes sense for Black Men to be imprisoned for non-payment even if it is against the law according to the US Constitution: Imprisonment for debt is prohibited, except for the non-payment of fines and penalties imposed for the violation of law. Well, maybe Child Support is a fine for having a Child with a person you are no longer providing for? I guess that makes sense too....

    The sad reality is that, while Mothers who do collect Child Support might be satisfied with what they get, that sum is only pennies compared to what the Government makes in interest by holding the money. And since the majority of us don't understand how money works in America we will continue to be in the dark if we don't study banking and finances.

    Its good to be sexually responsible. In fact- this should be a major requirement. However, people will always have Children. This is also a natural requirement. Are we saying a Man should be placed under Government surveillance/Child Support because he "wants" to have a child? Keep in mind also, there are Men right now on Child Support who never had the pleasure of having Sex with the Mother.

    Condoms or no Condoms, babies will be born- life will always find a way. That is not the issue. As a community, we could all- in our own Cities & States put in place a System for Single Mothers and Fathers to get community support, financial support and any other needs.

    I can't understand how people who wish to be free from this Government continue to place so much stock in it, well- that's just me- I was community raised.

    I would tell my own daughter this, when I finally call her spirit into this world one day.

    First of all, you are an extension of the people who helped to raise you, Your Mother, Your Father, Your GrandMother and GrandFather, Your Aunts- Your Uncles- and those Ancestors who came before us- Your Nana- her spirit is still with us. You represent us all. Our purpose along with your purpose are fused together in you. When you find a Mate, a Man to which your heart belongs- remember that if you are responsible for your Womb and what comes out your womb also represents us, as that Child will represent you. If you wish to love this Man, understand that this act of Love is your act of marriage- your Mate must understand this as well. He must be as connected to you, as we are. If he is not, it is unwise to offer your Womb. But you may find within your Spirit reason to make this choice, we only ask that this Man has the ability to provide Food, Clothing and Shelter even if he should depart from you. If this is not possible, then we will care for this Child as we have cared for you. But understand, your heart must become more educated so that this is not a result. We want you to be an intelligent African Goddess, and to do so- you must exalt yourself in such a way that others will emulate "US."
     
  6. Kemetstry

    Kemetstry going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Though the scenario you paint is accurate :garbage: , it's conclusions arent. Trust me on this, unless your name is Dwayne Wade or Donald Trump, child support aint giving mother or child anywhere near what they need to live off off. So unless that sister is just triffling:darts: , she has no bed of roses. Moreover, since the court is now being called to task on so many sisters lying to gain such an advantage as you are talking about, the system is now quicker to take them to task. Furthermore, if a brother keeps his head about him and treats the divorce and custody hearings as business, he can make out a lot better than if he was living there. There are now male lobbying groups nationwide pointing out that women overwhelmingly abuse children and that the man has more of an ability to financially support and nurture the child. Many states automatically award the child to the father if mom is found to be lying.

    So, there is hope. Now, I will pull up a couch and refreshments to watch this azzkicking :kick: :playball: you bout to git :lol:
     
  7. mrron

    mrron Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Well MetaSaience, your philosophy about child rearing makes a lot of sense. That is the way things are done in Africa and some other places. Everyone is responsible for the children, rather they are the parents or not. We no longer have that kind of culture among our people, unfortunately. When I was a kid, if a child was abandoned, someone would take him or her in. Actually, I was taken in as a child by a man I didn't know when I was eleven years old, because my mother had six boys to care for. My father left home one night and never came back. So he offered to take care of me and I left. It wasn't a bad thing at all for me, I got to see a better environment in which to florish. I don't know if there were child support laws then or not.

    We live in an "every man for himself" culture now, not very many people would take in a child who has been abandoned now. So the government is forced to make laws to protect the child. It is only natural that the parents would be the one's made liable for support. As to the issue of making it a crime not to pay child support, it becomes a crime when a judge orders one to pay the support, it is not a debt, it is an order. Disobeying a court order is called Contempt of Court, and it is a crime punishable by imprisonment. They are now trying to enact laws that could land one in jail if they file for bankruptcy and don't pay. It is not something to take lightly.

    As to our community, we have to get back to teaching children the basics about sex. We don't need any more single mothers struggling to raise kids without the proper support of the fathers or the community. If we didn't have so many single mothers trying to collect legitimate child support, we wouldn't have any young women growing up seeing child support as a windfall
     
  8. Metaverse

    Metaverse Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Peace Brothas!

    Allot can be said here. I agree this is indeed an every man for himself culture. On a personal note, In the past I have been that Man in a single Mother's life who stepped up as a Provider, even when the Child's Biological Father did not, would not or Could not for whatever reasons. In today's dating world, an Average Brotha if he doesn't have any children of his own, will date at least 1 Single Mother. So What happens then? I'll tell you what I did as a Man living in a home with a Single Mother and her child. I let her know right away her Son would now be my responsibility, and that she could stop trying to track down the Father to pay Child Support. We were together for almost 5 years and her Child didn't "want" for anything.

    A real Man will be a Man. Period. No buts, no maybes. Some people might read that as say- I was a special case. Actually no. Black Men have always been that way, if we paid any attention. I know over 5 Brothas right now today, who are doing the very same thing. Even some of us, have grown up to love our Step-Fathers more than our biological. While the relationship between this female and I didn't work out. The family system worked, and I proved it. She's been married for the last 3 years using the same system. We all know allot of Single Mothers by now. Many of us have been raised by Single Mothers. Our Black Mothers are strong- no doubt. But why are these Women suffering?

    Are they suffering because of the lack of "financial support" or are they suffering because of the lack of community support?

    There are Married couples with Children who suffer from the lack of financial support, usually because to care for children, pick them up from school and work to make ends meet is too strenuous. So that means they actually suffer from the lack of community support as well. Maybe the female who sees Child Support as a windfall are "triflin", or maybe it makes more sense to collect a check big enough to stop working so you can dedicate more time to raising the Child?

    I guess this conversation really depends on what you see in your environment. Now in Florida and Georgia, there are allot of Women who use Child Support for this purpose. I know Tanya planned this scenario. She might have gotten the idea from her Sister with 3 Children who quit her job after getting her Child Support verdict. Remember also 7-8 years ago the debate was about Welfare right? Did we forget? The Gov't wanted to get more Women off Welfare and into the Work force- but now its not about Welfare anymore is it.

    Most of the statistics about the cost of raising a child are all wrong. Usually because its not a black child they are referring too. In some cases the "inhouse" Parent is not paying more than the "outhouse" Parent who is charged a percentage of their income. Only in those cases where there is babysitting or tuition or health cost is there really a significant jump in monthly cost.

    I'll tell you right now the Courts are using the wrong Life-Charts to figure Child Support anyway. In GA a new bill passed recently that adds the Mother's or the inhouse Parent's income to the equation to determine Child Support. I'm not sure what difference that would make if the income is zero, to which most will make sure it is. A true Life-Chart would suggest "child cost" based upon the quality of life the child would have if both Parents were inhouse. The current figures used for Child Support are actually alimony figures.

    First and foremost an Adult is responsible for their own upkeep & maintenance, food, shelter, clothing etc. In many families the child's need are covered under these basic expenses. So how does everything go haywire when Child Support is concerned? My Father would tell me to turn off the lights I wasn't using. He'd tell me not to leave the refrigerator door open. The Man was keeping down his overhead costs. When I had a young Child under my roof even I wasn't paying 23% of my income a month on that Child. Neither was the Mother. Not even 15%. Food and Shelter is covered as our Adult responsibility. Clothing, baby sitter costs, Health, education-entertainment material- all of that were thankfully supplied by Family / Community.

    I am all for the Single Mom who says she's strong enough to raise her Children on her own. She shouldn't have to- but I understand. However the solution cannot be Government ordered Child Support. The solution cannot be prison time for Contempt. If those were "solutions" they'd be working.

    Since Males need a target- A Real Solution would be giving Men a better target besides p*ssy. That's actually an easy Target. A better target would be Business ownership. Personally, I see this American system doesn't work well with African Men because we come from people who were traders and in Business for themselves. So yelling at a Black Men telling him to "get a job!!!" is probably the worst thing you can do for his Ego. So this why Young Black Men gravitate towards Rappers, Blingblingers and Hustlers- to them- these people are in Business for themselves. Young Black Men want to be Providers. They do not want to be enslaved and slaves like those before them. Add community support to that pie and we might have something good going.
     
  9. mrron

    mrron Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    You make some real good points Metasaience, especially when it's come's down to culture and custom. My former wife had four kids when we met and married. I assumed, as you did, the responsibility for them all. I had one already from a previou nmarriage, he blended into the family, and became their brother. There was never a mention of anything like "you are not my child" or "I am not your daddy" etc. We were and still are, one family, each one loved equally. We never got welfare or food stamps either, although she was eligible.

    The government only does what is pragmatic on these issues. There are still homeless children in this country, most are with a single mother. In light of the fact that these children are not being cared for by at least one parent, the government makes available financial support so that these kids can continue to thrive, and hopefully not be bitter from living a miserable life. If someone wants to volunteer to support a child who is not their own, I'm sure the government would accept the favor.

    I think it is in the nature of most of us, to want to be cared for by both of our parents. An absent father is really the down fall of so many young black men, trying to learn how to become a man, by using the examples they meet on the street corners. This is our single most important issue. If we practiced having babies as a function of marriage, and had both parents in the home, at least most of the time, we would reap enormous benefits. The high schoold drop out rate would vanish, and subsequently, so would the incarceration and drug addiction rates. Would could be a better solution?

    As to the scam issue, we are basically talking about poor women here. Poverty is almost like a culture unto itself. Poor people will devise all kinds of scams to survive, even when they do more harm than good. It's hard to have a lot of self respect, when you are living on the bottom. Let's take it easy on the sisters.
     
  10. Metaverse

    Metaverse Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Thank you Mrron. Your words are most definitely overstood and appreciated. Men like yourself and so many other Brothas here at Destee are good examples of Men who strategize, think and rationalize our position, whether it be in a relationship or in life. There is so much wisdom to gain from these conversations. You are right. Poverty is a culture unto itself. I guess, in order to call Child Support a tactic for survival, one might assume that would be a last resort. It’s a vicious cycle.

    A large majority of us are raised Fatherless and in poverty, we grow up to repeat the conditions our minds record. I believe it was Carter Woodson who talks about this brand of “mis-education.” Since all behavior is learned, we can only do what we are taught. Which is one of the main reason I feel this issue is so important, I am a visionary maybe. I can already see the condition of the next generations to come, and I see the same system most of fight day to day, still in power.

    I am all for the natural Mother and Father. These two might be the only real and necessary occupations on this planet. Just as, we are in an “every man for himself” society- We are also in an un-balanced one. Male Supremacy in many ways has made some of the treachery that some females resort to validated, because of karma. But Militant feminism perverts our society as well. Poverty is a condition of the mind. Those who study spiritual doctrine may already understand that. Those who think “lack of abundance” will always attract that.

    For that reason, if one were to say- “the poor will always be with you” that is not a prediction, that wisdom comes from the understand of the Human mind. We all think poorly to some degree about something. Poverty doesn’t always manifest in finances alone, but in thought, deed, action and a host of other causalities. To balance the Earth, we must learn respect for the natural Mother and Father. Who are they? The natural Mother and Father are the people who are born to give birth, and are masters of that.

    What I find recently is that, there is more respect for the Woman who provides care for her children, than there is for Men who also love children, having children and being a good provider to those children. There’s something wrong there. This of course comes from learned behavior...and I won't generalize because not all of us think that way. But if we were to compare our current society using any measuring stick based upon social behavior, and pointed at any indigenous tribe of people on the planet- we may not see it right away, but it might become obvious how important the roles of natural Father and Mother are to the entire collective. This is why I called Child Support a family divider to begin with.

    I guess we can only do what we can with the tools that are handed to us. If Child Support is the system that is working for some, I still don’t see it as a system that will work for all. To me, it seems to be a big cop out anyway. Paying Child Support can exclude that Father/Mother from Emotional Support. There are also, as I recently found out allot of loopholes to Child Support, and it would be only a matter of time before more Men find them and use them to their advantage.

    I spoke with an Elder recently who told me, “two things Black people should be used to by now, sex and food.” She also said, “teenagers have always had sex and babies, all over the world Men have always had children with Women who they did not choose to marry or live with. But one thing we must remember, in Africa- if the Father was a fisherman, he was sure to bring his child some fish at the end of the day. If the Father made footwear, he was sure to bring the Mother of his child some shoes so she could trade at the market, whatever trade the man was doing, he used it to provide for the child. That is key. The Man would be a fool not to provide for his child, we weren’t raised like that anyway- because the village would find out and that would hurt his business. No one can trust a man who is not a good provider. Who would trade with him? What woman would be seen with him? In the culture we come from, provider and Man are the same, an African Man as big as his ego is would not put his manhood in jeopardy.”

    Give thanks Family! You are all examples for someone!
    ONE-love.
     
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