Amun-Ra : Celibacy at Issue?

Discussion in 'Amun-Ra' started by Amun-Ra, May 5, 2002.

  1. Amun-Ra

    Amun-Ra Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    With the latest round of indignation of Catholicism continued inability to deal with child molesters and rapists, calls for an end to celibacy and bringing women into the priesthood are being heard anew. It seems to come at a good time with the church paying out millions in settlements, but bringing women into the priesthood and ending celibacy is to paint over the problem.

    The problem is simple. The Catholic Church, as well as nearly any church, is a haven for child molesters and sexual predators. Why? The answer to that question is also simple. What better place to hide than in a position of respectability, and, religion carries that power with it for better or worse.

    This news is old news and new news in that it keeps coming back and nothing is ever done to solve the problem. Priest, ministers, preachers, monks and other religious figures who molest children and use their positions to take sexual advantage of others should be reported to the police. It is a crime. No the church should not deal with it. It has had centuries to deal with it and the best the Catholic Church could do was to move the offenders to another parish where they could molest again.

    Celibacy is surely an unnatural act considering human nature. However, the rejection of the flesh is indeed a difficult sacrifice, but it is not celibacy causing these problems. Unfortunately, priests have been having heterosexual and homosexual relationships since the church began. There is nothing new in that. In fact, before 1200 AD, priests often had families. However, because of the corruption in the church and the passing on of church properties to a priest’s family at his death, the powers in Rome implemented Celibacy as a condition of being a priest.

    It is no cause of nothing other than secret masturbation and a host of other hidden sexual activities, that if it weren’t for it them being priests, would be considered fairly normal for any other man. No, it isn’t celibacy. It’s the job and the failure of the Catholic Church to take serious punitive action against the offenders.

    In general, those who are sexual predators put themselves in positions where they have access to the prey of their choice and those positions are usually places where they are least expected. Examples includes school teachers, gym teachers, scout leaders, choir directors, camp leaders, the clergy and other positions that are high trust categories for the general public. This is where they hide.

    The continued failure of the Catholic Church to take direct punitive action against these predators has led them to the church where they have a safe hiding place and ample opportunities. Perhaps, it is time to deal with the church.
     
  2. Kitana

    Kitana Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Ra

    Can I say, Amen to all that you have said here...

    this is not a new problem by any means, but each time it happens it's supposed to cause a gasp of shock/horror from the public...I don't think so...the general public, not to mention the victims and their families, are sick and tired of nothing being done about most, if not nearly all of these instances...it's a classic case of the ostrich burying it's head in the sand, or the " sweeping it under the carpet" syndrome, and as you said , it is getting old, in fact it's ancient!...

    the Catholic Church has placed it's self above the law, and has been allowed to do so by a justice system that rules the rest of society...how many times in how many of these cases has it been heard that the leader of the church knew that the abuse by one of the priests or teachers was happening, but nothing was done about it...or the church has been allowed to say that they will deal with it in their own way...why is the catholic church allowed to hide behind it's religious cloak and be unanswerable to law and order, unlike the rest of society....

    as you stated, this is not about celibacy, which I too think is against the laws of nature, but it is all about providing a safe, secure haven, for sexual perverts and paedophiles, to practice these repeated acts of perversion, cruelty, and horror, on innocent children who are available to them at any time...it's like letting a sugar addict loose in a candy shop...and it will not stop or go away until the catholic church is made accountable for it's goings on in the church, as a part of society, not as a separate society on it's own....

    K
     
  3. Amun-Ra

    Amun-Ra Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I wit ya

    They have passed these people along for years, moving them from once place to another after they pronouce them "cured". Even Oral Roberts couldn't heal these people and moving them to fresh hunting grounds is certainly no way to do, especially when they are passed off as shepherds of the flock and instead turnout to be wolves in sheeps clothing.

    No, it is nothing new and that is sad. Unfortunately, religion is a willing dupe in this facade as it unwittingly supplies a home for these predators. It is not all their fault because it is natural for the predator to apply stealth in searching for victims. However, what is unnatural is for someone else to knowingly supply victims pretending the predator has become a sheep.

    The wolf remains a wolf no matter how much wool it wears. It is a wolf and wolves are carnivorous--they hunt. The Catholic church needs to stand to the answer and that is that it is wrong in its past handling of such cases. Celibacy has nothing to do with it. It is about opportunity.

    Ra

    :maddd:
     
  4. Amun-Ra

    Amun-Ra Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    U Said It!

    R. Kelly may be one and if covicted he should do the max--you are so right--they are everywhere they can hide and the best places to hide are in positions of authority--where they are unquestioned and make their own rules--I see no cure for them other than removing them from society or put them in a society that tolerates it--but I don't think that will happen.

    Ra

    :maddd:
     
  5. Kitana

    Kitana Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Ra

    when I first read the last part of your response my reaction was that I shudder to think that there could be any society that would tolerate the behaviour of paedophiles...but then on thinking about it, I think we already have a society that tolerates this behaviour...society in general tolerates it because not nearly enough is being done to stop it...

    also it makes you think, that if this kind of behaviour is recognised here and is known to happen and still there is not a harsh enough punishment to stop it or at least put a halt to it, imagine the extent of abuse of paedophiles in say, third world countries where media attention and public awareness would not be anywhere as vocal as what it is in other countries....

    and I have to agree with Kem that it is not only the paedophiles that need to account for their behaviour, but their enablers as well, who are in fact accomplices or accessories to the crime, and therefore should also be made accountable...

    in our society we have paedohphiles putting innocent children through hell on a daily basis, and when it is suggested that lists should be compiled and photos of the paedophiles made available to the public so that you know when they are in your neighbourhood, all the do-gooders say it is unjust because they (the paedophiles) have already paid for their crime....yet they have nothing to say about a childs life being destroyed or taken from them..these victims do not suffer for a short term...they suffer for the rest of their lives, and so many of them never recover or are able to live a normal life....tell me where that is fair...

    K
     
  6. Destee

    Destee destee.com STAFF

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    Amun-Ra ... thanks for this one. When I first saw it, I thought, just like Amun-Ra to bring the difficult issues to the table.

    I think to assume that celibacy is the issue, these men would be breaking their vows by having indiscriminate sex with adult women, but that's not the case. They are choosing children. This points to a much greater issue than celibacy can cause. These are sick people that probably can't be cured (though I have heard of drugs that reduce one's desire for sex in general ... or surgical removal of the penis and scrotum may do it as well). At any rate, extreme measures are called for. This whole pedophile issue is growing, with the Internet. I don't think it's growing any more than any other deviant behaviour, but the Internet has provided a medium where they can remain somewhat anonymous, while fulfilling their desires.

    Amun-Ra, you had written an article before about adults within a family, taking advantage of the children sexually. You mentioned that this is nothing new and even outside the church, it's always been a hushed and not acted on event. It's sad to say, there are Mothers aware that their daughters are and/or have been violated by their husbands/boyfriends ... yet they remain with them.

    Yes, it's all over our community ... so very sad.

    Kitana ... I posted a link in the open forum and am going to share it here too, in regard to a web site that lists convicted sexual predators that may be living in your community. While the priests that have been allowed to do this, may not be found on this site ... there are others who are not so priviledged abusers, that are listed.

    You can click on your state, enter your county or zip code and see pictures, names, addresses, etc., of the convicted sexual predators living in your neighborhood.

    Of course I've checked mine out and was surprised there are so many!

    http://www.apbonline.com/resourcecenter/sexoffender/

    :heart:

    Destee
     
  7. Kitana

    Kitana Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Destee

    Thank you for the link..I think that having databases such as these available for the public to view is the least the government and justice system, can do to stop or at least make people aware of, the sexual predators within their community...

    I know here in Australia it caused a lot of hue and cry when it was first suggested for each state to provide it's people with more or less the same sort of database...their plan was to provide all relevant details as well as photos...the opposition to the formation of these databases was overwhelming, and I know the motion was held up and put forward and put to the side so many times....I'm still not sure if it up and running in all states, but you have renewed my interest so I will endeavour to find out more about it...

    even today after reading your reply, I went and done a bit of surfing and was amazed to see how many groups are associated with paedophiles on the internet...I don't mean to sound crude or to seem to make light of such a serious subject, but it almost seems as if the internet serves as more or less as a gourmet take-away for paedophiles...children are more or less ready and waiting for their choosing...and their access to them (the children) is unlimited...they can masquerade under a cloak of deceit and no-one is any the wiser...

    it is definitely a sad situation when parents have to monitor their childs every movement, and every activity, like never before, to keep them safe..no longer is there such a thing as an "innocent childhood"...

    K
     
  8. Destee

    Destee destee.com STAFF

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    Kitana !!! I didn't know you were in Australia !!! I thought you were in California !!! Lawwwwddd ... well now ... :) ... seems like it oughtta mean something significant or change the way we talk to each other or sump'n ... but nothing feels different ... still seems like you're right down the hall like always! :wink:

    I'll come back and post to this topic ... I'm kinda tired now ... goodnight. :)

    :heart:

    Destee
     
  9. $$RICH$$

    $$RICH$$ Lyon King Admin. STAFF

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    i'm simply agreeing wit da family here ........speak on so da world
    may knowth of truth
     
  10. Amun-Ra

    Amun-Ra Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Acceptability

    In some cultures men are allowed to have child brides who may be as young as 12 years old. We frown on it because of the innocence of the child, but it is not new. Unfortunately, some of these patterns have been established. However, in the United States there is no excuse. Thanks for the links. It all over the country and these predators hide in positions of responsibility and importance and that is precisely what gives them the access they so desire. It also gives them the power of authority to keep things quiet.

    The church is hardly a new haven for these predators. It just seems worse that a man of the cloth would be one of these people but we know that rank nor station have no affect on those who are involved in these activities. The church's main problem is in covering it up and hiding those who are guilty in the misguided notion that these people can be cured.

    No, celibacy is an easy target for the media and for shallow discusion, but in reality it has nothing to do with this type of abuse.

    Ra

    :heart:
     
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