Black Spirituality Religion : Can You Show Me Where In The Bible That There Is Such Thing As The ''

Discussion in 'Black Spirituality / Religion - General Discussion' started by IssaEl21, Sep 7, 2004.

  1. IssaEl21

    IssaEl21 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Can You Show Me Where In The Bible That There Is Such Thing As The '' Original Twelve Disciples '' ?
     
  2. Music Producer

    Music Producer Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    That concept was stolen from the Old Testaments. There is as shown twelve tribes of Israel. As with normal African tradition there is an elder or leader of each tribe. When Moses would have meetings or desire to relay information on to the community they would meet in the front of the tent of meeting. At the table there would be thirteen individuals in all. This is the same depiction as in those paintings of Jesus and his disciples setting at the last supper. The idea or concept is borrowed from the Old Testaments.
     
  3. Keita Kenyatta

    Keita Kenyatta going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    What would you do if you found that the whole concept of twelve disciples was thousands of years older than Moses and that it was actually taken from some place other than the old testamemnt ?
     
  4. Sekhemu

    Sekhemu Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Brotha, they would never believe it. or better yet, the history would be revised. :nono:
     
  5. Keita Kenyatta

    Keita Kenyatta going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    you may have a good point....kind of makes you respect the value of having a good library, cause i think books may be obsolete in the future.
     
  6. Music Producer

    Music Producer Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I personally would do nothing and as a mater of fact I would love to know the source, could you please share it with me.

    Because I suspect the Old Testaments will eventually lead to a specific group of Africans in Africa and basically the Egyptians took the concepts from them and the Jew of today took them from the Egyptians. But I have yet to discover any evidence of the possibility.
     
  7. Radical Faith

    Radical Faith Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Origin Twelve Disciples.

    I assume you are speaking of Jesus. Here's what Matthew 10 says.


    Matthew 10
    1 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.
    2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;
    3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus;
    4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.

    Let's breakdown the question. Let' look at the word "Disciple". Disciple(eng), DWMML(heb), MATHETES(grk) all mean taught or learned. So disciples were those who were taught by or students of someone or something. Let's look at the significance of the number 12. When reading the Bible it is clear that numbers have special meaning to God. The special meaning of numbers by modern terms is called numerology or arithomancy. Where did this come from? The earliest known numerologist were Egyptians and Babylonians. From Egypt came the western civilation's solar calendar and hours of the day and night which are measured in increments of 12. Later hebrews adopted this system of numerology and called it Guematria. This was based on the 22 letter Hebrew alphabet where letters had number values. The modern standard form of numerology was said to be establish in 500bc by a greek philosopher name Pythagoras. The word "original" come from origin meaning beginning, first or genuine or authentic. So back to the question. If one is speaking of Jesus Matthew 10 is clear. If the emphasis is on the number 12 then is what the Bible say about numerology.

    Deuteronomy 18
    10 Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft.

    If one believes the Bible then it is clear that it is forbidden to practice numberology which is considered a form of divination or fortune telling.

    If this answer is not the point you were trying to make please explain, I'm interested.

    Peace

    Radical Faith
     
  8. IssaEl21

    IssaEl21 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Can You Show Me Where In The Bible That There Is Such Thing As The '' Original Twelve Disciples '' ? According To Luke 6 ; 13 Out Of All Of Yashua / Jesus Disciples He Chose Twelve And NameThem Apostles ;... Luke 6 ; 13 And I Quote '' And When It Was Day , He Called Unto Him '' His Disciples ; And Of Them He Chose Twelve . Who Also He Named Apostles '' ;... Make Note That In Luke 6 ; 13 It Says He Called His Disciple And Of Them He Chose Twelve , Meaning Out Of All Of His Disciples He Only Selected Twelve And Name Them Apostles . Thus According To Luke 6 ; 13 , Yashua / Jesus Had To Have Had More Then Twelve Disciples .
    In The Bible , The List Of Names Of TheSo-called Twelve Apostles Are As Follows;
    Matthew 10 ;1 < Simon Peter / Andrew Brother Of Simon Peter / James / John Son Of Zebedee / Phillip / Bartholomew / Thomas / Matthew / James Son Of Alpheus /Lebbaeus Thaddaeus / Simon TheCananaean Or Zelotes / Judas Iscariot >
    Mark 3 ; 13 - 19 < Simon Peter / Andrew / James Son Of Zebedee / John Boranges Brother Of James / Philip / Bartholomew / Thomas / Matthew / James Son Of Alphaeus / Thaddaeus / Simon The Cananaean Or Zelotes Judas Iscariot > Luke 6 ; 13 - 16 < Simon Peter / Andrew Brother Of Simon Peter / James / John Zebedee / Philip / Bartholomew / Thomas / Matthew / James Son Of Alphaeus / Judas The Brother Of James / Simon Called Cananaean Or Zelotes / Judas Iscariot >
    The Gospels Of Matthew , Mark And Luke Agree About The 11 Disciples Namely ; 1 Simon Peter , 2 Andrew The Brother Of Simon , 3 . James , 4 John Boranges- Brother Of James 5 . Phillip 6 . Bartholomew 7 . Thomas 8 Matthew . 9 James The Son Of Alpeheus 10 , Simon The Cananaean Or Zelotes And 11 . Judas Iscariot . However , According To The BiblesThere Was Also . [ Lebbaeus Thaddaeus / Nathanael John 1 ; 45 / Judas The Brother Of James Luke 6 ; 13 - 16 / JudeThe Brother Of Jame Jude 1 ; 1 ] ;...
    Jude 1 ; 1 And I Quote '' Jude The Servant Of Jesus Christ , AndBrother Of James , To Them That Are Sanctified By GOD The Father , And Preserved In Jesus Christ , And Called .
    Were Peter And James A Part Of The Twelve Disciples ? Some Christian Will Say Of Course They Were . HowEver , According To 1Corinthians 15 ; 5 - 8 , They Were Not . 1Corinthians 15 ; 5 - 8 And I Quote , And That He Was Seen Of Cephas Then Of The Twelve ; After That , He Was Seen Of Above Five Hundred Brethren At Once ; Of Whom The Greater Part Remain Unto This Present . But Some Are Fallen Asleep . After That , He Was Seen Of James ; Then Of All The Apostles . . And Last Of All He Was Seen Of Me Also . As One Born Out Of Due Time .
    Paul Says Yashua / Jesus Was Seen By Cephas ( Who Is Simon Peter ) Then The Twelve , As If Simon Peter Was Not Of The Twelve . Then In 1Corinthians 15 ; 7 - 8 , Paul Says Yashua / Jesus Was Seen By The Twelve Apostles , Then James - Again , As If They Were Not Part Of The Twelve Disciples Also , And By The Time You Get To 1Corinthian 15 ; 8 , Paul Is Impling That He Only Saw Yashua / Jesus By Vision Because He Wasn't Born In Due Time . However , This Is A Contradiction Because Paul Was Alive During The Time Of Yashua / Jesus , And He Knew Some Of The Disciples Of Yashua / Jesus . In Fact , Barnabas And His Nephew John Mark Were Paul's Companions . Together With James , John And Peter In Jerusalem , They Set Up A Plan By Which To Do Missionary Work .
    Acts 12 ;12 And I Quote '' And When He Had Considered The Thing . He Came To The House Of Mary The Mother Of John , Whose Surname Was Mark ; Were Many Were Gathered Together Praying .
    According To Matthew 10 ; 32 - 33 , Jesus Said And I Quote '' WhoSoEver Therefore Shall Confess Me Before Men , Him Will I Confess Also Before My Father Which Is In Heaven . But WhoSoEver Shall , Deny Me Before Men . Him Will I Also Deny Before My Father Which Is In Heaven . ''
    And Throughout The Gospels , It Is Recorded That Peter Publicly Denied Jesus 3 Times , Then Why Do Some Of The Christian Follow St.Peter ? According To Matthew , Mark , Luke , And John , Peter Would Deny Jesus Before The **** Would Crow 3 Times . Matthew 26 ; 70 - 74 ; Mark 14 ; 67 - 72 ; Luke 22 ; 57 - 60 ; John 18 ; 17 , 25 - 27 ;...
    The Point Is Not How Many Times The **** Crew Before Peter Denied Jesus Three Times . But The Fact That Peter Denied Yashua / Jesus . Then In Matthew 16 ; 18 , Yashua Said And I Quote , '' And I Say Unto Thee , That Thou Art Peter , And Upon This Rock I Will Build My Church ; And The Gates Of Hell Shall Not Prevail Against It '' ;... And In John 1 ; 42 It Says And I Quote''' And He Brought Him To Jesus , AndWhen Jesus Beheld Him He Said . Thou Art Simon The Son Of Jona ; Thou Shalt Be Called Cephas , ... Which Is By Interpretation , A Stone The Greek Word Used For '' Stone '' Is Cephas , Meaning '' The Rock '' From The Aramic / Hebrew Word Of Chaldean Origin Which Is Keph , Meaning Hallow Rock '' Not A Solid Rock And That Is Just What Christianity Is Built On . Doubt . Thats Why You Have So Many Christians Converting To Becomes Jews . Muslims And Any Other Other Religion Of The World Today . So Do Some Christian Teach That St.Peter Is Going To Be At The Gates Of Heaven, When He Couldn't Even Be Trusted . ?
    Why Did Peter , Paul , And Those Other False Preachers Set Up Churches If Yashua / Jesus Himself Said His Teaching Were Not Complete In John 16 ; 12 ?
    According To John 16 ; 12 Yashua Said He Had Many Things To Teach Them , The Disciples , But They Weren't Ready . In John 16 ; 12 And I Quote , I Have Still Many Things To Tell You All . But You Cannot Bear Them Right Now ;.... READ IT AGAIN Yashua Was Not Finished Teaching Them Yet , So That Makes His Doctrine Incomplete . In Matthew 16 ; 18 , Yashua / Jesus Said He Would Build His Church On People Who Were Firm As A Rock ; He Didn't Mean He Would Build His Church On Peter , Who Was Also Called Cephas , Which Means '' Rock '' . In Matthew 16 ; 18 , And I Quote ; And I Yashua Say Unto , Petros . Meaning Firm As A Rock . That Upon People This Firm , Like A Rock , Will I Build My Assembly ; And The Gates Of Hades Will Not Overpower It .
    If You OverStand The Quote You Have Just Read , Taken From Your King James Version Of The Bible , Which Most Of You Christians Read . Then You Should Not Have Established Any Churchs . Why ? Because Yashua / Jesus Said He Was Not Finished Teaching . So How Can Any Church Today Claim That They Are Founded On The Teaching Of Yashua / Jesus Christ , When He Himself Said He Wasn't Finished Teaching ? Yashua / Jesus Never Built A Church , Because He Never Completed His Mission . So Why Have You ? You Have Taken Yashua / Jesus Mission Futher Than He Did And You Are Following Behind Paul . The Self Appointed Apostle Of The Gentiles '' . He Started This ! You Must Wakeup To The Reality That You Are Being Blindly Led By Paulites - Followers Of Paul , Not Messiahites - Followers Of The Messiah !
     
  9. AACOOLDRE

    AACOOLDRE Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    The sun's followers, helpers or disciples are the 12 months and 12 signs of the zodiac through which the sun must pass. The sun at 12 noon is in the house or temple of the most high, thus jesus begins his fathers work at age 12.

    the sun enters into each sign of the zodiac at 30 degrees; hence the sun of god begins his ministry at age 30.

    12 is converted into two 6 pointed stars of David too. you can read in revelation how the 12 tribes are 144,000 broken down into 12 gates (Two six pointed stars of David in Rev 7,14 and 21.
     
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