Pan Africanism : Can You Really “Go Home” Again?

Ok...Ok... I'm trying to get with this.

Peace zuleilah2,


Let be a little clearer about Liberia. I agree it was designed to work on an exploitive level or for the deceptive motives that you implied. But you can’t believe that whites wanted Liberia to be a truly independent, progressive and successful enterprise. The idea that Blacks can be free and prosper, like other white expatriates in other colonies in Africa was out of the question. What Americo-Liberians did should be studied on its on merit and the question should be asked what was the political, ethical, and cultural socialization of these emigrants and what were their motives? Where these people being manipulated or did they represent the mores and ethics of African Americans as a whole?

To try to drive my opinion home, Lets look at, one writers opinion about the hopes of Paul Cuffee, who was one of the fathers of the African repatriation movement and was the inspiration of a idea that went wrong.

“Cuffee … envisioned a black trade network organized by Westernized blacks who would return to Africa to develop its resources while educating its people in the skills they had gained during captivity.”

Using Paul Cuffee’s vision as a philosophical guide, I don’t think that whites wanted the Liberian repatriation to succeed.

As far as your response to this statement, “African Americans sense of self-realization or ideas about Africa reflects more than the emotions, the biases or phobias of a few xenophobic Africans, wherever they are.”

Here again lets get more clarity, self-realization has nothing to do with going to Africa. Secondly, I was trying to tell you that our ideas about Africa are not just depended on negativities or emotional feelings or romanticisms. All I said was “ideas”. Africans from the continent have different ideas about America, some are superficial and some are more realistic. There are continental Africans who have naive ideas about Africa, as there are African Americans who are naïve about the politics and policies of America, basically a country they have lived in all their lives. I think it is good, if we don’t think the worst about Africa, regardless of what we see on the evening news. And is it bad to have positive ideas about Africa?? Read my statement a little differently and don’t read anything into it.

Hell, I got ideas about George Bush and I have never met him. :lol:

Now why African Americans go to Africa with all kind of romantic political ideas about the continent is a mystery to me. I have been disillusioned about my own people at times, but I also embrace and celebrate the fact that I am African American.

I accept all that I am, the exceptional, the good and the bad.

There are Continental Africans who see only images on TV or are only exposed to a limited portion of African American culture.

I believe, If you go to a place, you have to take something with you, to receive something in return.

As I told you, I am not looking for anything from any particular Africans, “IF” they have nothing to give.

Africans come to this forum all the time, and sometimes, they are very adversarial and antagonist and sometimes they are not. Some start fights, that didn’t exist. I just have learned to ignore this foolishness.

Look, I grew up fighting Black people and watching Black people struggle against each other all my life, I’m sure not going to go a couple of thousand miles to fight some more, black folks.

I think your question is really about Africans hating each other, regardless of where they are or where they come from, but I’m not trying to change your intent.

Why don’t you express some of the things that you feel?

So we can put your ideas in context, were you born in the continent or are you African American or African-Latino, etc.? And if you are male or female may help, but that’s your personal business. But the former ethnic information will probably help me with some of your expressed ideas.


Peace,

Brother Sun Ship
 
Re: Liberia

You said…Let be a little clearer about Liberia. I agree it was designed to work on an exploitive level or for the deceptive motives that you implied. The idea that Blacks can be free and prosper, like other white expatriates in other colonies in Africa was out of the question. But you can’t believe that whites wanted Liberia to be a truly independent, progressive and successful enterprise.

Z: The presence of large numbers of freed slaves (troublemakers in their eyes) made many whites very uneasy and they were looking for a way to rid the country of them; hence the formation of the American Colonization Society. These whites were made up of politicians, religious leaders and other whites from all across American society. Not only did they want the little colony to succeed they wanted it to succeed and prosper at all costs. They considered freed slaves a serious threat to the status quo – and their economic survival.

Some politicians who supported the repatriation of AAs to Africa included…

Thomas Jefferson - President Ulysses S. Grant - President James Monroe - Senator Ben "Pitchfork" Tillman of South Carolina - Theo. G. "The Man" Bilbo of Mississippi.

The philanthropic and religious leaders supported repatriation as an opportunity to establish Protestant Christianity in West Africa through the Black Americans.

Others whites just wanted American Blacks to leave America and never come back.

Ponder the phrase: "Be careful what you wish for because you just might get it."

So I have to disagree with you saying that the whites who supported the repatriation of AAs to Africa didn’t want Liberia to be truly independent, progressive or successful.

But at the same time why not reap some natural resources for little or nothing – resources Liberia had in abundance.

You said… What Americo-Liberians did should be studied on its on merit and the question should be asked what was the political, ethical, and cultural socialization of these emigrants and what were their motives?

Z: What Americo-Liberians did should be studied on its merit? Surely you must be joking! If anything the Liberian story should be studied as an example of some of the worst human behavior directed toward fellow human beings and be avoided at all costs.

Fact: The Americo-Liberians heaped most of what was ‘done unto them’ by white slavemasters onto the heads of the African natives.

Fact: The Africans struck back – ticked off by the Americo-Liberians encroaching upon their land; unhappy with the settlers attempts to curb the slave trade which some tribes grew fat and wealthy upon; and put off by the settlers attempts to Christianize them.

Fact: The Americo-Liberians instituted policies that separated them from the Africans and denied them all benefits available to citizens. (Sound familiar?)

You said… Where these people being manipulated or did they represent the mores and ethics of African Americans as a whole?

Z: Claiming Africans were manipulated or “tricked” by the white man is a favorite comeback from those who are confronted with the ugly side of Africa’s past.

How can you be manipulated or tricked into treating your own fellow human beings like the lowest of dogs?

And you ask… did they represent the mores and ethics of African Americans as a whole?

Z: The Americo-Liberians who populated the Liberian colony were freed slaves. Their behavior did not reflect the mores and ethics of the “whole” of AAs because the majority of AAs were still enslaved during this period of time.

So which segment of American society were they emulating in Liberia?

You said…To try to drive my opinion home, Lets look at, one writers opinion about the hopes of Paul Cuffee, who was one of the fathers of the African repatriation movement and was the inspiration of a idea that went wrong.

“Cuffee … envisioned a black trade network organized by Westernized blacks who would return to Africa to develop its resources while educating its people in the skills they had gained during captivity.”

Using Paul Cuffee’s vision as a philosophical guide, I don’t think that whites wanted the Liberian repatriation to succeed.

Z: Ask yourself...

What made many whites uncomfortable about the presence of freed slaves in America?

Why was the American Colonization Society formed?
 
(cont.)

You said…As far as your response to this statement, “African Americans sense of self-realization or ideas about Africa reflects more than the emotions, the biases or phobias of a few xenophobic Africans, wherever they are.” Here again lets get more clarity, self-realization has nothing to do with going to Africa.

Z: I agree. Clarity is indeed needed. As a Pan Africanist, why wouldn’t self-realization about your heritage (roots) not include a trip to Africa?

You said… Secondly, I was trying to tell you that our idea about Africa are not just depended on negativities or emotional feelings or romanticisms. All I said was “ideas”. Africans from the continent have different ideas about America, some are superficial and some are more realistic.

Z: Could you be more specific about these “ideas”. Which are superficial? Which are more realistic? And while you’re at it, could you address any specific ideas AAs have about Africa?

And one more thing. How can ANY of these ideas be proved or disproved without Africans traveling to America and AAs traveling to Africa?

You said…There are continental Africans who have naive ideas about Africa, as there are African Americans who are naïve about the politics and policies of America, basically a country they have lived in all their lives.

Z: Examples from both quarters, please.

You said…I think it is good, if we don’t think the worst about Africa, regardless of what we see on the evening news. And is it bad to have positive ideas about Africa?? Read my statement a little differently and don’t read anything into it.

Z: There ARE positives about Africa – more instances of political and economic stability – more awareness of the destructive nature of gender violence – lower percentages of Africans dying of communicable diseases - just to name a few.

But I feel that it is naïvete at its worst if we as Africans in the Diaspora or human beings, in general, to turn a blind eye to the indignities – sometimes murderous indignities suffered by millions of people, whether viewed in full and living color on the evening news, told from the perspective of refugees taken into shelters in many of our own communities or related by those who have worked side-by-side with other like-minded people doing their best to alleviate the suffering of needy Africans.

You said…I think your question is really about Africans hating each other, regardless of where they are or where they come from, but I’m not trying to change your intent.

Z: My question stands as it is.

You said…Why don’t you express some of the things that you feel?

Z: For instance?

You said…So we can put your ideas in context, were you born in the continent or are you African American or African-Latino, etc.? And if you are male or female may help, but that’s your personal business. But the former ethnic information will probably help me with some of your expressed
ideas.

Z: AA female.

Note: I’ll be waiting for the usual assumptions.
 
Great exchange, but I need someone to summarize what was just debated between Brother Sun Ship and Sister Zueleilah. Getting back to the simple question that started this thread, what are we really debating here?

After all that's been written, is this discussion about whether African Americans are aware of the realities of what they might find if they repatriate to Africa, or are we romanticizing the idea due to some inner need to feel accepted and have a sense of ownership of a country in reaction to how we're treated, for the most part, in America?

Someone please help me to understand what this is about? :help:

Peace, :spinstar:
 
I'm still wondering what you are looking for(?)

Here we go...


Quote zuleilah2 :

You said…So we can put your ideas in context, were you born in the continent or are you African American or African-Latino, etc.? And if you are male or female may help, but that’s your personal business. But the former ethnic information will probably help me with some of your expressed
ideas.

Z: AA female.

"Note: I’ll be waiting for the usual assumptions"

unquote

what assumptions?

I'll deal with this later, got to go. Peace
 

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