Black People : Brothers & Sisters or Mates & Potential Mates?

Discussion in 'Black People Open Forum' started by skuderjaymes, Mar 18, 2010.

  1. skuderjaymes

    skuderjaymes Contextualizer Synthesizer MEMBER

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    ..had another marathon conversation with a friend last night.. lasted almost 7 hours.. one of the things
    we discussed was what I call the "default disposition".. which is confusing.. I was trying to speak to the
    ways that we (men & women / me & her) relate to each other.. about how we evaluate each other through a romantic lense..

    and that's not to say that we want to get with every person.. it just means that we form many of
    our opinions of each other based on things that have to do with mating..

    My friend is tall.. 6'1 I think.. and I'm 6'5.. she doesn't like short men.. and when she sees a short men
    she kind of turns her nose up and forms an opinion of the guy based purely on a standard she has set for
    her mate.. and I know lots of folks that do the same thing.. they talk almost exclusively in those kinds of
    terms.. and that, in my opinion, leads to a kind of separation between men and women that doesn't
    exist between men and men.. we sat down at this coffee shop surrounded by the camaraderie.. the
    laughter.. and genuine warmth of black men.. playing chess.. talking.. etc.. warming up the whole room..
    guys from all over the Diaspora together.. talking that talk.. enjoying each other.. and I wondered why
    it couldn't be like that between all of us.. between black men and black women.. why we can't put
    away our romantic eyes?.. and stop evaluating each other in those ways and just be brothers and
    sisters..

    And I don't mean that we should stop looking to connect.. but that "connecting" shouldn't
    dominate the ways we relate to one another.. we are up against too much.. and have too too many
    things to do if our people are going to survive..

    My friend and I have had 3 of these "marathon conversations" that have lasted over 5 hours each..
    and we've only been able to do it because.. from the beginning.. we labeled it "Platonic"..
    to make sure that their was no misunderstanding..

    so to sum this rambling up.. even though we will only ever have romantic relationships with a few
    folks in our lifetimes, (many of) our fundamental dispositions toward one another seem to still have
    romantic leanings.. (ie.. He doesn't like fat women so, he has an attitude with the bus driver..
    she doesn't like men with beards, so she's stand-offish with him.. ).. and the price for that
    contextual confusion seems to be real and lasting unity and friendship between black men and women..

    .. that's what I'm thinking.. thoughts?
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2014
  2. jamesfrmphilly

    jamesfrmphilly going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    capitalist "body parts"?

    your friend is a fool. please tell her that i said that.
    i could not spend 5 hours of my precious life talking to that.
    just get her a season pass to the nearest NBA franchise ( the warriors?) and be done with it.
     
  3. medusanegrita

    medusanegrita Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Thoughts? Yeah, I got thoughts or comments. Not sure how to connect them so I just gonna put a series of what seems like errant thoughts.

    Not being to able to relate to each other as friends because we are of the opposite sex starts as teenager or young adulthood. I had problem relating to the opposite sex on the basis of friends only. Back then I had no standards to judge men/boys by, so anybody I liked and mutually liked me back - was relationship or sex material, and I presumed that was the way it would go. I didn't understand how you could be friends with somebody you were attracted too - and I was attracted to dam near everybody who smiled at me and said 'hi' (this spoke of my esteem issues while growing up and the attention I craved).

    Now I have a handsome son who is facing some of the same issue. I told him as young as 14 not to have a girlfriend, not because I thought it was wrong to have one at 14, but (as I put it to him) there would be SO MANY girls who liked him and that he would like over the years of his young adulthood, why try to stick with just one girl so early? I believe you are suppose to have one girlfriend or boyfriend - or at least that is what I'm espousing. But with friends, you can have as many as you want, regardless of gender. So I've always told my kids to forgo having a girlfriend or boyfriend and to have everyone as 'friends' first. The idea of having a girlfriend or boyfriend also has some inherent implications too - romantic hugging, kissing, monogamy, and even sex. Those implications are not there when you have 'friends.'

    But with my son, who's the oldest and the first to meanuever through this sexual landscape, is finding this to be a little difficult. Every little girl wants him to be their boyfriend, and if they find he is talking to another girl they think he either likes that girl romantically or is going with them - so subconsciously they are already given over into competition with other girls.

    He had a girlfriend, and then still had to learn how to have other girls as 'friends' and what he could do with them or how far he could go with them as friends. For instance - he was walking and talking to anther girl. When they parted, he gave a her 'fist bump' because he thought that would be less romantic than a hug. He explained to her how baffled she looked. I explained to him that a friendly hug would have been fine - so long as she knows in advance that you two are 'friends' and that you already have a girlfriend. He is still learning and it's good he's learning this at a young age - because many of this don't know how to do this as adult.

    Now me - I ain't quite figured how to maneuver this landscape between male 'friends' and 'romantic interest' because of my peculiar situation, but anyways....

    I still don't have any standards for men, or at least not many. And that's not as bad as it looks or sounds. I don't have a 'list' to hold men too that includes any sort of academic or financial criteria (for romantic interest). I no longer think that every man that is having friendly conversation is trying to get into my pants or even interested in me, so I do return friendly conversation. Almost any man can be my 'friend' and I will talk to him on that basis because I am not holding him to some 'list standard.' Some women I know won't even give men a friendly look or 'hi' in return because he doesn't fit those 'list standards.'

    For romantic purposes, my 'standards' are still pretty open, nothing definite or conclusive. I've met too many nice men with potential who fall out of the standards that a lot of women would set for themselves - especially women on the higher end of the social and financial economic strata. I ain't on that strata so maybe that why my standards are lower.

    But from my experiences in past relationship(s), I do know what I absolutely crave and want - and that has less to do with physical, financial, or academia. That means that there would be more men who can fit that particular criteria, than not. All else about a man and what I desire is subject to my whim and fancy about that particular guy.
     
  4. awo dino

    awo dino Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I have thought about this many times too bro. It is nice to put aside the sex once in awhile and just socialize with the opposite sex. On the rare occasions when this happens, a good time is had by all.
     
  5. Workinprocess

    Workinprocess Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    In all honesty, I can understand why the sister would make sure that if a man is not her type, that she sets a standard of being strictly platonic. I understand why she would do that but that don't mean that I agree with her doing that or that I condone any woman doing such.

    The reason why I understand is because, I am one of those peoples person, I can talk to anyone and I never limit who anyone can be. I have shared good discussion with alcoholic homeless people to holding conversations with folks who have masters degrees in Anthropology. So I can give an honest objective understanding to why it is that the sister more than likely developed this kind of attitude.


    Here is a story, this has happened many different times, in different ways, but this is the most current situation.


    I was at the gym a few weeks back, and I was swimming laps in the pool next to the lane where this fat brotha with a pot belly was swimming. Something told me that the brotha was going to talk to me which was fine. Any way, he eventually compliments me out of no where on how well of a swimmer I am. I thank him and eventually we began to chat away in the pool, he is on his side of the divider in the pool and I am on the other side. Any way, he asks me am I single, I tell him that I am not single as of yet, but that soon I will be and when that day comes, I will not anytime soon be interested in pursuing a new relationship, I will be taking a break. What I told him was the truth and I meant every word of it. He then say's to me "Well, can you have friends?" I respond and say, of course I can but I am not looking for any kind of romance or anything of that nature. He tells me that he is cool with that. So he ask for my number and I didn't see any harm in letting him have my number being that the conversation was cool and we agreed on developing a friendship. He called me a few times after that and I had been really busy, not really having the time to chat.

    The last day he called me, that day again, not really having time to talk to him and brushing him off to the side due to my busy schedules, I felt kind of bad. That day, I eventually told him that I would keep my word and call him back after I got out of the shower because I was running kind of late and had some things to do before I finally left the house, which would be about 3 hours later. Any way, I took my shower, did what I had to do and about 2 hours and 45 minutes later, a few minutes before I was about to leave the house, I call him and say's to him, okay, just keeping my word by calling you back. He say's to me, "Oh really, so you all nice and wet?" I was like, huh? He say's to me, "you talkin to me while you soak and wet, you took your shower right?" I say's to him, miss me with that kind of talk okay, I took my shower a long time ago and no, I ain't talking to you after just getting out of the shower. "He say's to me, what's wrong with you, are you celibate or something?" I say's to him, what's it to you, what dos that have to do with anything?" He say's to me, "well, it seems like a brotha can't be humourous with you and make a joke or two, you can't help a brothas imagination out, you gotta be all tense and make a brotha feel he walkin on pins and needles with you." I say's to him, don't you remember what I told you when I first met you, and no, I will in no way help you with your imagination." He responds with "Yes, I remember and we gone have a problem because I want to be in a relationship" I say's to him, we don't have a problem at all, you got a problem, but I don't. If you thought you were going to manipulate me into doing something I told you I wasn't interested in doing, you only fooled yourself." He responds and say's "So you don't want to be in a relationship, then what about a sex thing then?" I say's to the mutha "don't ever call me again, I don't like you and I want you to lose my number" I then press the end button on my phone.



    Point being, I have never had an experience where I call my self treating a brotha kind, treating a brother with respect as a black man, treating a brotha like he is just trying to be nice, no strings attached. I have never been able to just do those things without a brotha trying to holla at me, try to get at me or get into my pants, never has that happen, that we could be like brother and sister. In my experience, if a brotha talks to a sista, that means he is thinking about some kind of future plans that extend beyond just being friends or being brother and sister.

    So, I can see the sista resorting what she does, if she has had the same experiences as me, what she now does was probably the only way to take some control on the outcome. In her mind, she is thinking, if I am going to have to deal with a man that I take my time out talking to, at least he is going to have to be my type, that way, if he hollas, I may be willing to tolerate him. I can also see why the sista would want to make sure that it is understood that everything is strictly platonic before she talks to a man, that way, if she don't like what he talks, his conversation and all, it will be much easier to back out of any potential for future plans, thing is, that method don't seem to help. Brothas always seem to think that they are a step ahead of the sista. Even thous she say she wants things platonic, maybe she will become vulnerable, maybe she will see that a brotha has money, or maybe she may like a brothas charisma and then maybe then, she will change her mind about being strictly platonic.:wink:




    W.I.P :whip:
     
  6. medusanegrita

    medusanegrita Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I understand this. I am similar in scope and demeanor.

    Good story and told well. I understand completely where you are coming from and have experience very similar results. I get that whole 'well can you be friends then?' and they act like that's code and a lead in to sex or a relationship. I either can't do either or I'm not interested in either with that particular guy.

    And again, that all goes back to people not learning early (as my children are) about how to have friends with people of the opposite sex. On top of that, we (society) have taught and expect men that it is their right and duty to try to get some sex from women, even if they are not interested in relationship. This guy lied about his intentions and used the whole 'can we be friends' as a leeway to be inappropriate with you under the guise of of a jest. Your response to telling him off was apt.


    Hmmm... I appreciate this tidbit. Sometimes I think like brothas - that a woman who disregards talking to a guy she deems unattractive or unworthy of her time is just being a upsadditiky B....

    When I see that, I'm thinking 'SEE?? THAT'S WHY YO *** IS SINGLE! BETTA QUIT COMPLAINING ABOUT THE LACK OF GOOD (BLACK) MEN AROUND BECAUSE YO *** IS TOO CHOICY! ALL THE BROTHA DID WAS SMILE AND SAY 'HI' AND YOU ROLL EYES AND MUMBLE UNDER YO BREATH LIKE YOU SAYIN 'I KNOW THIS BROTHA AIN'T TRYING TO TALK TO ME! I'M ALL THAT AND A BAG OF HOTCAKES!'

    And for that, I blame black women for their own plight of being single, and that they have no reasons to complain about the dearth of brothas or men available to them. I still feel this way; but you comments gave me some insight to what these sistas might be feeling in their mind.
     
  7. jamesfrmphilly

    jamesfrmphilly going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    blinded by the matrix

    we have all been brainwashed by the system of white supremacy to act in a foolish and counter productive manner.
    that is why black people cannot find each other even when we are standing right next to one another.
     
  8. medusanegrita

    medusanegrita Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I concur.
     
  9. cherryblossom

    cherryblossom Banned MEMBER

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    You aint lyin'!

    Can't we just be together sometimes and just talk as Black men and women with common or even not-so-common backgrounds and interests and goals?

    Can we just do this sometimes without tryna to get a booty hook-up?

    And even networking has its time and place!

    Don't put somebody on-the-spot making them uncomfortable just to be there.

    It's not just a matter of "Can't we all just get along?" but can we do that also with the knowledge that (1) he or she aint tryna to go home with you; (2) they don't wanna give you their number; and (3) they don't want your number either.
     
  10. jamesfrmphilly

    jamesfrmphilly going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    i been celibate for some time.
     
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