Black People : Brain Dead - How is it Determined?

Discussion in 'Black People Open Forum' started by Destee, Apr 19, 2005.

  1. Destee

    Destee destee.com STAFF

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    Hello Family,

    I was watching a discovery channel emergency trauma room documentary thingy ... where folk come into the emergency room in traumatic situations i reckon. Anyway, a young Brother is wheeled in, has been shot in the head by accident. Was at a friend's, cousin's or sump'n, handling the gun, and a bullet ends up in his brain.

    They get him all hooked up to stuff, close the wound to stop the bleeding, and after a few hours decide to run tests to see if he's brain dead. I was really surprised to see the tests actually being done. They went like this ...

    1. Test Number One

    The trauma doctor got down beside the patient's ear, and began screaming his name. He said a few things to the man, asking questions like, can you hear me, etc. The patient never responded.

    2. Test Number Two

    The trauma doctor pinched his arm, and the patient was suppose to flinch or something. He never did.

    3. Test Number Three

    The trauma doctor opened the patient's eyes, and shined a flashlight directly on his pupils. They never changed, so i'm figure'n he failed this test too.

    4. Test Number Four

    The trauma doctor took him to x-ray, so they could see the path the bullet took inside of his head. It was confirmed that a bullet had in fact entered his brain, and was still lodged inside. I don't know if this was a pass or fail.

    5. Test Number Five

    The trauma doctor told one of the other hospital personnel to watch the clock, and on his "go" ... they were going to remove the thing that was helping the man breathe, and he would be given 10 minutes to begin breathing on his own. The man never breathed on his own, and at the end of that ten minutes, he was pronounced brain dead.

    They never put the breathing stuff back on him.

    The doctor then went into the waiting room and told the man's Family that he had been pronounced brain dead at such and such time. They screamed in agony. The doctor walked back down the hall saying he hates this part.

    There are obviously different standards for making this diagnosis, and unfortunately it seems, some folk never get the opportunity to get a second opinion.

    Oh gosh.

    All i gotta say is, don't go in a hospital sick enough not to immediately respond.

    :heart:

    Destee
     
  2. jamesfrmphilly

    jamesfrmphilly going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    they could have been doing the guy a favor.

    if i were brain damaged, i would prefer to go ahead and die.
    i have already given DNR (do not resuscitate) instructions to those close to me.
     
  3. HODEE

    HODEE Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Test one , two and three are a joke.

    Test one
    Holla back.. give him a minute doc. Let the info get around up in there. Have a voice he recognizes call him.

    Test two
    Ouch.. If it was said in his mind. They should have had sensors hooked up to test brain activity. Maybe his feet were more sensitive.

    Test Three
    The doctor wanted to see if his pupils dilated . Not a proff positive test either.

    Test four he passed. No question about it. The bullet was there because they didn't take it out. No attempt to relieve the pressure. It may have caused that kept him from responding to test one, two or three.

    If the hospitals were not counting beds and table time, they could have waited a few days. The families have to speak up, and ask for as much time to see if the person recovers and passes one of these test. Maybe in 15 minutes things may change. The next day or so. No one knows. The hospital is looking at insurance too. Maybe the insurance industry wrote the procedure.. and said they will only pay for ten minutes of hospital services after the following three tests are done.
     
  4. karmashines

    karmashines Banned MEMBER

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    What if the man was in a temporary coma? Anybody can lose consciousness if something traumatic enough happens to them.

    A determination of 'brain-dead' should be made after a few days, not minutes, especially when such a determination means more than likely the patient is going to be taken off of life support and die!
     
  5. Kingpin

    Kingpin Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    These two steps are the criticle steps when dealing with a Trauma. Step number 4 when the went to Radiology to perform the CT study of the Brain. I can tell you from experience that it was done with and without contrast to see the flow of blood to the brain and how much brain matter has been destroyed.

    If you are unfamiliar with these types of studies than it will seem like nothing looks to abnormal however if enough brain matter is scrambled and if a bullet goes in and does not come out that means it split into many pieces and distroyed a lot of this patients brain.

    The reason for test number 5 was to check the autonomic function of the brain. this is the area that takes care of breathing and the beating of the heart and all other functions of the body that you "dont have to think" about.

    If enough brain matter has been distroyed and no autonomic function is there than the person is clinicly brain dead. However if there is autonomic activity than a barage of other test are performed including EEG, Blood Pool/Flow studies and numerous others.

    Contrary to what some here think the hospitals are not "counting beds" they are there for everyone regardless of their ability to pay or not. Not only are the morally and ethicly obligated but are also LEAGALY obligated to do everything to save a persons life. No one knows if you have insurance or not when you come to the emergany room and are unable to speak and no one cares they are there to TAKE CARE OF YOU.......
     
  6. Ralfa'il

    Ralfa'il Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I say when you are not longer able to think for yourself....you are officially "Brain Dead".

    Can somebody say: Zombie puleeeeuuuzzz....
     
  7. FiveAlive

    FiveAlive Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I second Kingpin's observations. hodee mentioned that one (or more) of the tests i(#3, I think) is not proof positive, which is true, no one element of the tests performed are diagnostic, rather, the results are taken as a whole. Also remember that the show was edited for TV, there are other things that happen and things going on that get edited out because a TV show has to fit a time slot. As for test #2, sometimes an EMG is hooked up to the patient, sometimes not. Sensory tests and pinprick tests are generally done on both upper and lower extremities, the other half of the test was probably edited out.
    Test#1--people respond to their names being called, it doesn't matter whose voice it is. When you've seen it happen in a trauma case, you'll understand.
    #3 pupil dilation is an involuntary reflex. Dead people don't have that reflex.

    As Kingpin said, the CT is not a pass/ fail test, it was done to show the MDs how much brain tissue is damaged/ destroyed and where that damage is. For those who don't know, bullets don't maintain their shape when they hit something. They metal is soft and they get deformed, so what they take out is almost always of greater area than the size/ shape of the bullet, they don't just go into something in their normal shape/ size and rest on something, putting pressure on it. They are made to, and they do, destroy flesh. The deformity would be less at closer range, but it still happens.
     
  8. $$RICH$$

    $$RICH$$ Lyon King Admin. STAFF

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    HOW YOU KNOW A BRAIN IS DEAD

    working in this field a few years back ....
    A brain death is defined as the irreversible loss of all functions of the brain
    it can be determined in several ways
    1... No electrical activity in the brain and determined by EEG

    2.... No blood flow to and from the brain and this done by studies and lab work

    3.... Absence of function of all parts of the brain ways to determined this is from
    no movement , no response to stimulation , no breathing and or brain reflexes

    the way Doctors and studies have lable brain death from a Gun wound to the head
    cause major destruction of the brain tissues and swelling , brains are enclosed in
    the skull and have no room to swell this pressure within the skull where it's cracked
    or open pushies the brain out once a bullet enters a skull affecting the brain it have a
    massive enlargement that shut any function off to brain waves or signals this increase
    called (( " INTRACRANIAL PRESSURE ")) their is no reversal

    note the heart can still beat from the ventilator or medications to help keep pressure
    normal.
    A person who is declared brain dead is legally dead

    Testing for death of the brain
    is a pressure supplied from the wound a enlargement take place
    it's true a person can go into shock or a coma from the blast but the
    activity wave of the brain would still function , NOT in the wave of
    hearing , speaking , or feeling but the most common sign a brain is dead
    is through (BREATHING) if the brain is alive it will breathed

    3 , 4 & 5 is how many hosp. do it and from these diagnosis , studies
    and lab work this how a Doctor determined the life or death of a brain

    ALWAYS their are two Doctors to give the finalization of brain death

    many time they don't need days but skillful hours to determined this
    even in a coma the brain can suffer and still die .

    why become a laying dead veggie and linger suffering to the family or love one's
    basicly a gun shot wound to the head 99.99% is death and major brain damage
    that can't be healed you die and many cases has proven this findings and the reaction
    has all been determined the same outcome.

    Days of study just cost family your dead the brain is dead .
     
  9. Radical Faith

    Radical Faith Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Bottomline

    This man was shot in the head and the bullet entered the skull and was lodged in the brain. There is no doubt about brain damage, bullets are not suppose to rip through brain tissue. The questions will he recover? The doctor's are not doctors because you can get a doctorate from Kmart they know what their doing. After the CT revealed the damage and the body wouldn't breath on it's own it was obvious there was more than brain damage there was physical death. There was no need in prolonging the truth or instilling false hope. The doctors did the right thing according to the available technology.


    Peace
     
  10. $$RICH$$

    $$RICH$$ Lyon King Admin. STAFF

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    true indeed RF it sums it up correctly and to the point
     
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