Black People : Blacks Stake In The Immigration Debate:

Discussion in 'Black People Open Forum' started by chuck, Nov 14, 2009.

  1. chuck

    chuck Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    May 4, 2006 - Issue 182

    Mexico’s Legacy: A Refuge for Fugitive Slaves and Black Job-Seekers

    New Perspectives on the Immigration Debate

    by Prof. Ron Wilkins

    There are of course, many angles from which to view the escalating immigration debate. Mexican immigrants, who constitute the largest share of the undocumented, have a unique history with the African population inside the United States. As the Black community weighs-in on this very contentious issue, it becomes necessary for us (both black and brown) to review the history that we share. However, before reviewing our history together, I need to say unequivocally that the U.S. seizure of more than half of Mexico’s territory in 1848 netted Washington more than 80% of Mexico’s mineral wealth and was a criminal act. And that if Mexico today still included California and Texas, she would possess more oil than Saudi Arabia and have sufficient economic infrastructure to employ all of her people.

    When Mexican people say that “the border crossed us, we did not cross the border,” they speak the truth, and more black people (most of whom are not strangers to oppression, exploitation, domination and exclusion) need to appreciate that. It has been said that for most of the 19th century, Mexican immigrants were more highly regarded by African Americans, than any other immigrant group. What may account for this, at least in part, is the enormous if not pivotal role undertaken by black fighters in the war to secure Mexican independence from Spain and abolish slavery. Unfortunately, many of us repeat the falsehoods of our adversaries and have forgotten our special relationship with Mexican and Indigenous peoples. It is time that our memories be restored and that the naysayers and nativist negroes among us either put up or shut up. What follows is the little known history of Mexico serving as a refuge for fugitive slaves and a provider of job opportunities for blacks emigrating from the U.S. to Mexico.

    Mexico Rejected Fugitive Slave Extradition Treaties

    From the very beginning of his Texas colonization scheme, a determined and deceitful Stephen Austin sought to have Mexican officials acquiesce to the settlement of slave-owning whites into the territory. It was generally acknowledged that the people and government of Mexico abhorred slavery and were determined to prohibit its practice within the Mexican republic. Beginning in 1822, at least 20,000 Anglos, many with their slave property, settled into Texas. Jared Groce, one of the first of Stephen Austin’s Texas settlers that year, arrived with 90 enslaved Africans. The Mexican Federal Law of July 13, 1824 clearly favored and promoted the emancipation of slaves. Mexico had even stipulated that it was prepared to compensate North American owners of fugitive slaves. Determined instead to have things their way, Anglos began to press for an extradition treaty which would require Mexico to return fugitive slaves.

    From 1825 until the end of the Civil War in 1865, Mexican authorities continuously thwarted attempts by slave-holding Texas settlers, to conclude fugitive slave extradition treaties between the two parties. During this period of extremely tense relations between the two governments, Mexico consistently repudiated and forbade the institution of slavery in its territory, while U.S. officials and Texas slave-owners continuously sought ways to circumvent Mexican law. The Mexican authorities thwarted repeated attempts by slave-holding Texas settlers, to conclude fugitive slave extradition treaties between the two parties.

    In 1826 the Committee of Foreign Relations of the Mexican Chamber of Deputies refused to compromise on the issue of fugitive slaves and defended the right of enslaved Africans to liberate themselves. Mexican government officials cited “the inalienable right which the Author of nature has conceded to him (meaning enslaved persons).”

    Congress member Erasmo Seguin from Texas commented that the Congress was “resolved to decree the perpetual extinction in the Republic of commerce and traffic in slaves, and that their introduction into our territory should not be permitted under any pretext."

    Again, in October 1828 the Mexican Senate rejected 14 articles of a newly-proposed treaty and harshly criticized article 33, stating “it would be most extraordinary that in a treaty between two free republics slavery should be encouraged by obliging ours to deliver up fugitive slaves to their merciless and barbarous masters of North America.”

    Reporting on the growing number of Anglo settlers in Texas, Mexican General Teran reported “most of them have slaves, and these slaves are beginning to learn the favorable intent of Mexican law to their unfortunate condition and are becoming restless under their yokes …” General Teran went on to describe the cruelty meted out by masters to restless slaves; “they extract their teeth, set on the dogs to tear them in pieces, the most lenient being he who but flogs his slaves until they are flayed.”

    On September 15, 1829 Afro-Mexican President Vicente Guerrero signed a decree banning slavery in the Mexican Republic. Yielding to appeals from panicked settlers and Mexican collaborators who saw Mexico benefiting economically from the Anglo presence, Guerrero exempted Texas from the prohibition on the introduction of slaves into the republic, on December 2nd. Several months later, the Mexican government severely restricted Anglo immigration and banned the introduction of slaves into the republic.

    Undeterred, the Anglos succeeded in negotiating a new treaty with Mexico in 1831, which included article 34, which called for pursuit and reclamation of fugitive slaves. After considerable wrangling between the Mexican Chamber of Deputies and Senate, article 34 was removed from the treaty. Also, by 1831 it became apparent through debate within the Mexican Senate that the government’s welcoming of fugitive slaves was not completely altruistic. Some Mexican officials, fearful of U.S. military intervention, had began to see it as wise to encourage the development of runaway slave colonies along the Northern border as a way to lessen the threat posed by the U.S. As historian Rosalie Schwartz put it, many Mexican officials “reasoned, these fugitives, choosing between liberty under the Mexican government and bondage in the United States, would fight to protect their Mexican freedom more vigorously than any mercenaries.” As the interests of Mexican officials and U.S. abolitionists coincided during the early 1830’s, a modest number of former slaves established themselves in Texas and fared well during the period.

    In 1836, after the fall of the Alamo and its slave-owning or pro-slavery leaders, such as William Travis, Jim Bowie and Davy Crockett, Mexican forces were defeated and an independent Texas was eventually annexed by the United States. However, before the expulsion of Mexican forces from Texas, Brigadier General Jose Urrea evicted scores of illegally-settled plantation owners, liberated slaves, and in many instances, granted them on-the-spot titles to the land they had worked. Oddly enough, many black people call for “forty acres and a mule” – a reference to Union General Sherman’s Special Field Order 15 and General Howard’s Circular 13, which made some land available to former slaves. But what one never hears are references to Mexican General Jose Urrea and the land titles that he and his men granted to former Texas slaves, following the defeat of the Alamo, a generation before the “Civil War.”

    Even after the loss of Texas, Mexican officials refused to formally acknowledge Texas independence on the grounds that it “would be equivalent to the sanction and recognition of slavery.” After Texas independence the slave population mushroomed and the number of runaways across the South Texas–North Mexico border, increased. In 1842 Mexico’s Constitutional Congress reasserted the nation’s commitment to fugitive slaves. In 1847, 38,753 slaves and 102,961 whites were listed in the first official Texas census. In 1850, in a new treaty accord with the United States, Mexico again refused to provide for the return of fugitive slaves.

    The slave institution in Texas was continuously undermined by defiant Tejanos (Mexicans in Texas) who took great risks and invested enormous resources toward facilitating the escape of enslaved Africans. The Texas to Mexico routes to freedom constituted major unacknowledged extensions of the “Underground Railroad.” Tejanos were variously accused of “tampering with slave property,” “consorting with blacks” and stirring up among the slave population “a spirit of insubordination.”

    Plantation owners in Central Texas adopted various resolutions aimed at preventing Mexicans from aiding the slave population. Whites in Guadalupe County prohibited Mexican “peons” from entering the county and anyone from conducting business or interacting with enslaved persons without authorization from the owners. Bexar County whites suggested that ”Mexican strangers entering from San Antonio register at the mayor’s office and give an account of themselves and their business.” Delegates to a convention in Gonzales resolved that ”counties should organize vigilance committees to prosecute persons tampering with slaves” and that all citizens and slaveholders were to endeavor to prevent Mexicans from communicating with blacks. Whites in Austin decreed that “all transient Mexicans should be warned to leave within ten days, that all remaining should be forcibly expelled unless their good character and good behavior were substantiated by responsible American citizens” and that “Mexicans should no longer be employed and their presence in the area should be discouraged.” In Matagorda County, all Mexicans were driven out under the bogus claim that they were wandering, indigent sub-humans who “have no fixed domicile, but hang around the plantations, taking the likeliest negro girls for wives … they often steal horses, and these girls too, and endeavor to run them to Mexico.”

    By the year 1855, the estimates were that as many as 4000 to 5000 formerly enslaved Africans had escaped to Mexico. Slaveholders became so alarmed at this trend, that they requested and received, approximately 1/5th of the standing U.S army which was deployed along the Texas-Mexico border in a vain effort to stem the flow of runaways. Defiant Mexicans stood their ground, refused to return runaways, continued supporting slave uprisings and providing assistance to escaping slaves. In the words of Felix Haywood, a Texas slave, whose experience is recalled in The Slave Narratives of Texas, “Sometimes someone would come along and try to get us to run up north and be free. We used to laugh at that. There was no reason to run up north. All we had to do was walk, but walk south and we’d be free as soon as we crossed the Rio Grande.”

    What a Difference a Border Made

    1857 was a year whose profound irony made it one of the most interesting. 1857 was the year that the U.S. Supreme Court ruled against Dred Scott, an enslaved African who had sued for his freedom, on the grounds that his owner had forfeited any claim to him, after taking him into a free state. Ironically 1857 was the same year that the Mexican Congress adopted Article 13 declaring that an enslaved person was free the moment he set foot on Mexican soil.

    Mexico as a Provider of Job Opportunities for African Americans
    During the 1890’s, hundreds of black migrants fed-up with slave-like conditions and segregation, left Alabama for Mexico and established ten large colonies. Shortly thereafter, during the period of the Mexican Revolution, large numbers of black people migrated from New Orleans to Tampico, Mexico as the oil industry prospered. These Africans in Mexico established branches of Marcus Garvey’s Universal Negro Improvement Association. One of the black oil workers who came to Tampico stated, “there is no race prejudice, everyone is treated according to his abilities.” During the same period, black heavyweight champion Jack Johnson asserted that Mexico was “willing not only to give us the privileges of Mexican citizenship, but was also willing to champion our cause.”

    Juan Uribe, a major Mexican official, visiting Los Angeles in 1919, was quoted as saying, “ My only regret is that it is not physically possible to immediately transport several million African Americans to my beloved Mexico, where the north yields her riches as nowhere else and where people are not disturbed by artificial standards of race or color.” Similarly, African American immigrant Theodore Troy said, “I am going to a land where freedom and opportunity beckon me as well as every other man, woman and child of dark skin. In this land there are no Jim Crow laws to fetter me; I am not denied opportunity because of the color of my skin and wonderful undeveloped resources of a country smiled upon by God beckon my genius on to their development.” A black colony which included fifty families, developed fruit orchards and engaged in cattle raising. It established itself in Baja, California, in the Santa Clara and Vallecitos Valleys situated between Ensenada and Tecate, approximately thirty miles south of San Diego and lasted into the 1960’s.

    Not to be overlooked is the enormous success of the Negro Baseball Leagues in Mexico during the 1930’s and 1940’s. Black ball players together with 4-500 family members seeking relief from racism in the U.S. and segregated institutions, were hosted in Mexico by generally respectful competitors and admiring fans. One competitor in particular, Ray Dandridge played for 18 years in Mexico, before Jackie Robinson gained admission into U.S. major league baseball. Also, from the 1930’s to the 1960’s, major Mexican muralists, such as Diego Rivera, David Siqueiros and Jose Clemente Orozco invited prominent African American artists such as Hale Woodruff, John Biggers, Elizabeth Catlett and Charles White to the Mexican Art School where they developed an art style which helped them to connect images, more effectively, to ethnic and class struggle.

    Of course there are many more historical intersections where Mexican and African people cooperated with each other. A few examples were the solidarity between the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee (SNCC)/Black Panther Party and Brown Berets; SNCC and the Alianza Federal de Pueblos Libres and El Movimiento Estudiantil Chicano de Atzlan (MEChA) and the Black Student Union (BSU). Mack Lyons, a black member of the United Farm Workers Union’s National Executive, negotiated its contract with Coca Cola, which owns Minute Maid and sizeable Florida orange groves. In Los Angeles, during the 90’s, black and brown students recognizing common history and mutual interests, formed the African and Latino Youth Summit (ALYS).

    Admittedly, Vicente Fox is no Vicente Guerrero. The Mexico of today is profoundly different from the refuge that once welcomed fugitive slaves, or land of opportunity that embraced African American job-seekers; yet, its beautiful history of support, for African Americans in need of allies, cannot be erased. It might prove useful to see the relationship between black and brown people as similar to the bond between a man and woman. It is beautiful most of the time, but there are moments when it is tested and may become strained. When this happens one or both must give more and work to increase or renew trust.

    Pass this material on to others. The black or brown reader of this piece should now know that the best of our history together, as black and brown people, speaks to the necessity of collaborating during the worst of times. A wise people are a grateful people, and never content themselves with recalling and celebrating their legendary alliance with an important neighbor. Instead, they press forward, fully aware that mutually-supportive relationships are still possible and necessary.

    Ron Wilkins has worked many years toward strengthening relations between Mexican and black people. He has lectured extensively, designed and taught innovative cross-cultural courses at several colleges, displayed his "Journey to Black Mexico" photo exhibit at many venues and taken students to the Annual Meetings of Black Villages in Mexico's Costa Chica.

    Wilkins is a professor in the Department of Africana Studies at California State University, Dominguez Hills and Western Regional Deputy Chairman of the Patrice Lumumba Coalition.

    He can be contacted at [email protected].
     
  2. Ankhur

    Ankhur Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    The history is important and real and true, but....

    how does one explain thathistory of unity to the hundreds of Black families who have been threatened and brutalized out of Chicano bordered Black neighboehoods in LA , and the actions of the Mexican gangs in spreading thier turf in Newark New Jersey, and in other locations through out the naton?

    Racism is alive and well in Mexico,
    and it would be interesting to hear some of the comments made by contemporay Mexican power brockers, regarding Black Americans
     
  3. Ankhur

    Ankhur Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Racist Mexican Gangs "Ethnic Cleansing" Blacks In L.A.
    Latino thugs indiscriminately murder blacks regardless of gang membership, genocidal purge aligns with radical Aztlan theology

    Paul Joseph Watson
    Prison Planet
    Monday, January 22, 2007

    Racist Mexican gangs are indiscriminately targeting blacks who aren't even involved in gang culture, as part of an orchestrated ethnic cleansing program that is forcing black people to flee Los Angeles. The culprit of the carnage is the radical Neo-Nazi liberation theology known as La Raza, which calls for the extermination of all races in America besides Latinos, and is being bankrolled by some of the biggest Globalists in the U.S.

    A story carried on the liberal website Alternet, charts an explosion in brutal murders of blacks by Hispanic street gangs in L.A. Far from being gang on gang violence, the Latinos are targeting innocent blacks in accordance with a concerted ethnic cleansing campaign that seeks to eradicate all blacks from Hispanic neighborhoods.

    In one instance, 21-year-old Anthony Prudhomme was shot in the face with a .25-caliber semi-automatic while lying on a futon inside his apartment, slain by a Latino gang known as the Avenues as part of a racist terror campaign in which gang members earn "stripes" for each black person they kill.

    In one typical case," writes journalist Brentin Mock, "Three members of the Pomona 12 attacked an African-American teenager, Kareem Williams, in his front yard in 2002. When his uncle, Roy Williams, ran to help his nephew, gang member Richard Diaz told him, "******* have no business living in Pomona because this is 12th Street territory." According to witnesses, Diaz then told the other gang members, "Pull out the gun! Shoot the *******! Shoot the *******!"

    The fatwah against blacks began in the mid-nineties, with a 1995 LAPD report concluding that Latinos had vowed to "Eradicate black citizens from the gang neighborhood." In a follow up report on the situation in east Los Angeles, the LAPD warned that "Local gangs will attack any black person that comes into the city."

    The author notes that since 1990 the African-American population of Los Angeles has halved, partly as a result of rampant illegal immigration and that there are noticeably fewer blacks walking the streets because many have been forced to relocate in fear of the racist gangs.


    "The LAPD estimates there are now 22,000 Latino gang members in the city of Los Angeles alone. That's not only more than all the Crips and the Bloods; it's more than all black, Asian, and white gang members combined. Almost all of those Latino gang members in L.A. -- let alone those in other California cities -- are loyal to the Mexican Mafia. Most have been thoroughly indoctrinated with the Mexican Mafia's violent racism during stints in prison, where most gangs are racially based," writes Mock.

    Mock blames the "Mexican Mafia" for ordering the campaign of ethnic cleansing from prison, as part of a turf war with the Black Guerilla family, another prison gang, but fails to pinpoint the racist creed from which the Mexican kingpins draw their inspiration - the long standing Aztlan invasion agenda.

    Aztlan's goal, known as La reconquista, is to cede and take over the entirety of the southern and western states by any means necessary and impose a Communist militant dictatorship. President Bush's blanket amnesty program goes a long way to helping the extremists achieve their aim.

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    Despite the fact that the majority of documented hispanics oppose illegal immigration, as do the majority of Americans, Aztlan and La Raza race hate groups have become the self-appointed voice for a separatist movement that threatens a violent overthrow of the Constitutional system and a barbaric program of ethnic cleansing. This is held up by the media as 'diversity' and to vociferously oppose it is scorned as racism.

    Aztlan and Mecha groups advocate killing all whites and blacks and driving them out of the southern states by means of brutal ethnic cleansing. Flags and placards carried at marches depict white people having their heads cut off, as seen in the picture below.


    Those that protest such groups are then attacked by the establishment media and labeled as racists, despite the fact that the Plan of San Diego, a rallying cry for the hispanic Klan groups, advocates total eradication of any race but hispanics.

    Mecha's own slogan reads, "For the race everything. For those outside the race, nothing."

    TV stations owned by rich white industrialists erect giant billboards in Los Angeles claiming the city belongs to Mexico, as seen below.


    Mainstream hispanics who love America abhor the virulent racism that the Mexican klan groups embrace.

    And who bankrolls these pocket radicals? Billionaire tax-exempt foundations and NGO's owned by white men. Organizations like the Ford Foundation, groups who are zealous in their quest to eliminate the middle class and destroy America, turning it into a cashless society, compact city, surveillance control grid where only two tiers of society exist - the elite and the poor slaves.

    During the May immigration protests, The Aztlanwebsite carried the following statement.

    "If the racist "Sensenbrenner Legislation" passes the US Senate, there is no doubt that a massive civil disobedience movement will emerge. Eventually labor union power can merge with the immigrant civil rights and "Immigrant Sanctuary" movements to enable us to either form a new political party or to do heavy duty reforming of the existing Democratic Party. The next and final steps would follow and that is to elect our own governors of all the states within Aztlan."

    Here is the open call for violent separatism and the overthrow of existing state government structures.


    During the immigration demonstrations, which were orchestrated by Rob Allyn of Rob Allyn & Co. who is closely tied with George W. Bush, alarming reports of illegals carrying out violent beatings began to surface. In Santa Ana California, illegal aliens swarmed around in mobs invading schools, carrying out violent beatings and in one incident a county worker had a Mexican flag plunged into his chest.

    The violent protests that began on May 1 last year were characterized by throngs marching under Mexican flags, many of which were illegal aliens, as a "day without gringos."

    Imagine what the reaction would be if white middle class Americans marched in their millions and called the event "a day without blacks."

    The media continues to run defense for a violent militant movement that seeks nothing less than the eradication of blacks and whites through ethnic cleansing and the takeover of the southern and western states. This is a separatist junta that has over 30,000 ruthless gang members at its disposal once the call for mobilization is heard, along with millions of illegal aliens pouring across the border.


    These thugs have the temerity to call Latinos, blacks and whites who are opposed to uncontrolled illegal immigration racists when it is their own La reconquista philosophy that has spawned target hits in Los Angeles as part of a virulently racist ethnic cleansing rampage. It's a bloodlust that can only spread to other cities as the realization of Aztlan is generously aided by billionaire Globalists who wish to see America balkanized, plundered and

    destroyed.



    Racist Mexican Thug Attacks American

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=2bOeixtHN...elated&search=
     
  4. chuck

    chuck Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    how does one explain thathistory of unity to the hundreds of Black families who have been threatened and brutalized out of Chicano bordered Black neighboehoods in LA , and the actions of the Mexican gangs in spreading thier turf in Newark New Jersey, and in other locations through out the naton?

    Chuck:

    Such is the downside of a nation and/or nations of uneducated indigenous folk, the legacy of one in particular--Mexico-- dominated by the descendants of white spanish folks mixed race descendants, one party rule for decades, and a fanciful notion-- straight out of a comic book storyline--as to what it means to be a part of a--uh- 'cosmic race'...

    Duh...

    Ouch...

    Sigh...

    Si, senor...

    On the other hand:

    They all remember Pancho Villa...

    Not Zapata...

    But the poorer remaining Mexican indians know and understand far too well how different their lives are than their those educated/well off urbanized folk in the cities...

    On the other hand:

    Those two hundred equally poor black mexican villagers on the Pacific Coast were (or are) for all intents and purposes a forgotten people too...

    You wrote:

    Racism is alive and well in Mexico,

    Chuck:

    All sorts of colored folk mimic white folk...

    Coward also need scapegoats...

    Etc.

    You wrote:

    and it would be interesting to hear some of the comments made by contemporay Mexican power brockers, regarding Black Americans

    Chuck:

    Yes...

    Others have and do report on that too...

    But...

    Ignorance ain't bliss...

    Be it dissing of new illegals by equally stuck on 'stupid' black high school dropouts turned black gang members and small time 'street life' types, or their brown counterparts, to whom being a loco yoko has become a way of life, sometimes from generation to generation:

    Most of both aformentioned folk remain among the losers or the victims...

    So what does it profit either to argue and bicker among themselves?

    Otherwise my and the point was to remind both that their ancestors and forbears had chosen another (better) means and ways to cope and deal...

    Now some of both emulate or mimic the worst aspects of the whites!

    Both were and are choices...

    Only so much either can just blame on 'racism/whitey/the system'...

    Some of both are choosing to be a part of the problem, and by the way of default...

    In order to either or both to become a part of the solution:

    Later for seeking out easy scapegoats:

    Harder to stand up and challenge their common enemies...

    It doggone sure isn't each other!

    You lack a sense of history etc.

    Since what plagues both today didn't come about 'overnight'...

    So don't base so much on so few or so little etc.

    And do place the blame where it truly belongs...

    I. e., playing the exploited and oppressed against each other, such is hardly limited to folk of the same ethnic/racial background, etc.

    Yes...

    Such we can blame on our peoples exploiters and oppressors...

    But as long as we remain in conflict with each other:

    We have no forces to challenge them with!

    That's not new or news to me:

    Perhaps that's new and news to you...

    Though as I recall you had been hyping the likes of Castro and Chavez etc.:

    But have you ever asked or read what people of African descent in that part of the Americas felt or thought about them as well?

    I kinda sorta doubt it...

    So do be consistent:

    And know it's not just bigoted or racist as well as whitewashed latinos in Mexico or their chicano counterparts in the states that I'm also concerned and worried about too...

    FYI...
     
  5. chuck

    chuck Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Not the way things were is just that...

    The way things are just that too...

    Who knows the ways things will become?

    But ignorance ain't 'bliss'...

    And the truth will set you free...

    If you choose to be...

    The answers to your questions:

    Yes...

    That will come by the way of your own deeds...

    But not just your words...

    Also you're written and spoken in support of Castro and Chavez...

    Perhaps you need and should want to find out what blacks who live in their nations feel and think about them too...

    The politics of popularity contests used to our take on such things:

    That's never been an option, for our counterparts elsewhere...

    So please no more simplistic takes, when the issues and problems we face nowadays are as equally complex and confounding, as well...

    FYI...

    Take care...

    Peace...
     
  6. chuck

    chuck Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    What are YOU for?

    Who are YOU against?

    I must admit your countless threads etc. leave me with only guesses:

    I know others like me who post on these threads need and want to know and understand what the truth is!

    Or maybe others familiar with you and your posts (before I started posting on this board as well) already know...

    So holla holla folks...

    Thanks...

    Later...

    Peace...
     
  7. chuck

    chuck Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Does anybody else have an opinion or opinions based on reading (or rereading) the article I've reposted (as in--with an open--not a closed--mind etc.)?

    Y'see, I do recall and I haven't forgotten those anti latino comments, etc., which used to plague that other websote and/or the forums some of you bailed from, only nowadays to come across the same sort of stuff here, whereas a few aren't even as well informed about that aformentioned crap, on this one...

    And, y'see, one can choose (the operative word) to feel or think things have always been as bad as they are nowadays, rather than track back, (as the author of the aformentioned article did), i. e., realizing and recognizing brown/black relations were once cordial and friendly, etc., where they weren't being underminded by mutual exploiters and oppressors of both peoples...

    Our counterparts--here-- and long before the increasing numbers of 'illegals' (some of whom are merely returning to the lands their indigenous ancestors etc. roamed long before white or black people were here in equally large numbers in the first place)
    had and has to do with black and indigenous relations etc., elsewhere on this part of the North American continent--whereas that's a long story for another day--and perhaps another poster will relate it via another thread:

    Otherwise those folk were plagued by the same divide and conquer ploys...

    So, what do the whites feel and think they 'owe' us, just because we speak the same lingo, etc. more like--what so many of us feel and think that they do?

    The answer to those questions are pretty obvious!

    Or why else are their 12 million illegals in this nation (given all of the rhetoric ad naseum about sealing off the borders etc. to the contrary)?

    The answer to that question:

    Because some members of the white status quo etc. are a bunch of liars and hypocrites!

    Also-- because so many black folk forget what past generations did--rather than cry the blues about what today's blacks allegedly won't!

    Can we ally ourselves with folks of other ethnic/racial backgrounds behind a common intent and purpose as well?

    Other people of african descent around the Americas DO!

    So it's not about being either 'good negroes' or 'bad *****hs':

    It's about being a part of the problem (by the way of default) or choosing better means and ways to cope and deal with today's issues and problem (as in--be a part of the solution)...

    Like them or loathe them or not care one way or the other:

    Instead they didn't create the issues or the problems...

    A class of white elitists who cared or care not who they exploit ad naseum in order to remain on the top ARE the issue and the problem!

    Lose sight of that:

    Then you'll wind up making enemies of friends and friends of our peoples enemies!

    FYI...

    Later...
     
  8. dredreson

    dredreson Member MEMBER

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    Mexicans are racist as all hell.
     
  9. chuck

    chuck Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    First of all:

    We're writing and talking about five centuries of white contact etc.

    Second of all:

    There are bigots and racists among all ethnic/racial groups...

    Third of all:

    Some descendants of ex slaves etc. do mimic and emulate their relations past slaveowners and/or their descendants...

    On the other hand:

    There are also people of african descent thruout the Americas...

    So, let us not consider us--here--the be all and end all-- instead reestablish our relationship-- to them--everywhere else-- and we might wind up having the allies and advisors etc. we need and I want--i. e., to help us and them cope and deal-- with that other crap--here--too...

    FYI...

    CTJ
     
  10. chuck

    chuck Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Country:
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    The same folk who send back starving black haitian refugees:

    Now has 12 million undocumented brown people in its midst!

    Both were and are choices...

    The white status quo etc. of the USA:

    The world's worst hypocrites...

    Don't blame it all on the 'illegals':

    They're just the pawns...

    Yes...

    Somebody else continues to play us all...

    But only if we let them!

    FYI...
     
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