Pets / Animals : Black the Rottweiler is a killer

[ogoun]

Thank you so much! The suggestion of letting him learn to be more responsive to my voice, is a good idea. He does listen to me and knows my voice. One morning we were taking the trash out (to the street), and he's normally unleashed during this time. It's a quiet time of morning, rarely any people around. So we're halfway down the drive, me pushing the trash can and him following along. Then the trash collector came, stopped his truck waiting for me to get there, and the guy jumped off the back and waited. But he saw Black, and I saw him, so I told Black down and stay ... and OMG ... he did it! He stayed! I continued to push the trash can to the street, the man emptied it, and Black stayed! ... I was so proud of him! Crisis averted. We just don't have lots of interaction with people to practice this with and I don't know many that would volunteer. It's all good in the hood!

Good boy!...............

However, what if the man had made what Black interpreted as a threatening move but was really just some friendly gesture? How would it have gone down? Any ideas? You have a better knowledge of Blacks thresholds then anyone else.

If you wanted to test Black on those consequential thresholds I would suggest finding the closest French Ring club in your area. The people that decoy* for the club will help you out, albeit for a sum of money but I think generally they are amiable to working outside their club. I used to pay about $70 for an hours visit in these parts.

*
Decoys are the guys that dress up in bite suits, stand to challenge the dog and then take the subsequent bites.

The results might surprise you no matter what happens. I've heard of and seen stuff that would surprise even the most seasoned handlers.
A couple of stories.
I can't find it now but there was a video tape of a seminar put on at a police academy for the local K-9 handlers of the department. The taped section was on what happens if the bad guy got the officer on the ground and pinned under him.....................Of the (I think it was) 8 or 9 dogs only one did not go for (attack) who was the lower, which in this scenario was it's own beloved handler!
Some time ago I was quite active on a working dog forum and there was this one guy that was always on about his great dogs and how he didn't fear anyone, aah you know, getting to him or into the house because his pack of dogs were fearless. Finally one of the members who was a well regarded decoy on the forum had enough and told him he was going to be in his part of the world decoying at a tournament (a championship trial) and that he'd gladly stop by his place for free to test those assertions of his if he'd tape the reactions of the dogs and post it for all to see. Yep, every dog shied and a couple came up to be pet and not one bite from any. The decoy walked right up the porch steps sat down and had a cup of coffee.

As I said the results of actually testing Black might surprise and perhaps amaze you.

The neighbor on the other side always gives Black toys. She throws them over the fence to him, balls, stuffed toys, etc. Well, you'd think he'd love her, but if she walks up to the fence and thinks she can pet him, no Ma'am, you cannot. He growls and acts like he wants to get her. At least there is a fence between them (and she is an adult walking up to a fenced rottweiler), so I am not as disheartened by this behavior.

I would corner that neighbor and as diplomatically as I could put a stop to that asap. But it would stop.
What usually happens at my place is I get the excuse of 'I was just playing with the dog'.................and then I say okay you think he's playing? tell you what I'll let him out or you can go in and the two of you can play. No ones ever taken the offer.
##%*$FF@#%^%^ people.

Oh my gosh! The thought of someone telling me Black is in their yard ... oh gosh ... ... You don't seem troubled by the experience. Does Strider get to move around the neighborhood like he wants? ... lol ... I could just see him, peeing on everything while he's out ...

It was just another close call with Strider that could easily have resulted in losing the farm and him at the same time.
Strider would happily rove around peeing on the world if I allowed it but the dominant snot's thresholds are so low and sharp he wouldn't live long in this civilized world without me or someone like me.

Is Strider neutered? Black is not and I think (read) it may make him more aggressive by not being neutered. He's never had sex either ... I would have him neutered but my Son ... OMG ... he acts as if it is neutering him personally! He told me to cut my testicles off first. I think it's a man thing. He is so against it, I've not done it. I think I want to though, just because they say it calms them and may avoid other ailments in the future. He aint gett'n none, hasn't yet. That probably frustrates him some. Whatcha think?

I think all dogs, male and female, should keep all their parts until health matters calls for something other than. Intact dogs are healthier because of the hormones those parts supply affect both mind and body amongst general health concerns like the immune system. Personally I think people whether they admit it or not are happy to have the deed done because it relieves them of the responsibility to care about what their dogs do. And the vets don't help, always going on about this, that or the other on why it should be done but none of their blather holds up under examination. It always comes down to......'it's just done unless your breeding'.
!#$&($#^*(^ people.
But just ask a vet about vasectomy or tying the tubes instead of a hysterectomy or castration. Watch their head explode.
No no it does not calm them down or less aggressive, if anything it will make him less sure of himself without those hormones and make him insecure and sharper among other side effects like diminished body stature and discontinued bone development.
Just a guess.

LOL, don't worry about him being frustrated.
He takes care of himself the same way we all do if we alone and feeling ahem frustrated.


A scratch under the chin from me to Black.

 

[Destee]

Good boy!...............

However, what if the man had made what Black interpreted as a threatening move but was really just some friendly gesture? How would it have gone down? Any ideas? You have a better knowledge of Blacks thresholds then anyone else.

If you wanted to test Black on those consequential thresholds I would suggest finding the closest French Ring club in your area. The people that decoy* for the club will help you out, albeit for a sum of money but I think generally they are amiable to working outside their club. I used to pay about $70 for an hours visit in these parts.

*
Decoys are the guys that dress up in bite suits, stand to challenge the dog and then take the subsequent bites.

The results might surprise you no matter what happens. I've heard of and seen stuff that would surprise even the most seasoned handlers.
A couple of stories.
I can't find it now but there was a video tape of a seminar put on at a police academy for the local K-9 handlers of the department. The taped section was on what happens if the bad guy got the officer on the ground and pinned under him.....................Of the (I think it was) 8 or 9 dogs only one did not go for (attack) who was the lower, which in this scenario was it's own beloved handler!
Some time ago I was quite active on a working dog forum and there was this one guy that was always on about his great dogs and how he didn't fear anyone, aah you know, getting to him or into the house because his pack of dogs were fearless. Finally one of the members who was a well regarded decoy on the forum had enough and told him he was going to be in his part of the world decoying at a tournament (a championship trial) and that he'd gladly stop by his place for free to test those assertions of his if he'd tape the reactions of the dogs and post it for all to see. Yep, every dog shied and a couple came up to be pet and not one bite from any. The decoy walked right up the porch steps sat down and had a cup of coffee.

As I said the results of actually testing Black might surprise and perhaps amaze you.

You're right, it could have gone bad, quick. A fortunate break this time, I'm more careful now, thanks.

There are a few videos on dogs wimping out when needed. I was trying to find one I saw where the trainer was talking about this, but here's a good one too :



This would be a great test for Black. I think he'd be protective, but I really don't know.

I did some searching on french ring clubs, nothing real close to me, but most events I did see were canceled due to covid. The sites seem to have events / competitions, but I don't see actual opportunities to test your dog. It seems a K-9 handler is needed here, which are closer to me, that can see what Black is made of. I was thinking about taking him to PetSmart, they have a dog training class, even 1 on 1 classes, but I've never done it. To look at Black, he's frightening, so I'd need someone who is not afraid of his bark and stature. Not sure PetSmart is up for that. This makes me want to do more with him though, I'll keep looking. Thanks for the ideas!

I would corner that neighbor and as diplomatically as I could put a stop to that asap. But it would stop.
What usually happens at my place is I get the excuse of 'I was just playing with the dog'.................and then I say okay you think he's playing? tell you what I'll let him out or you can go in and the two of you can play. No ones ever taken the offer.
##%*$FF@#%^%^ people.

Yes, you're right. My Son says the same. I've told her, but ... well ... I'll work on this part.

It was just another close call with Strider that could easily have resulted in losing the farm and him at the same time.
Strider would happily rove around peeing on the world if I allowed it but the dominant snot's thresholds are so low and sharp he wouldn't live long in this civilized world without me or someone like me.

Is Strider tested for the fight or flight mode?

Do you know if he will wimp out with a burglar, or attack?

It sounds like you're really into the dog world, I bet he knows how to do everything. Pretty awesome!

I think all dogs, male and female, should keep all their parts until health matters calls for something other than. Intact dogs are healthier because of the hormones those parts supply affect both mind and body amongst general health concerns like the immune system. Personally I think people whether they admit it or not are happy to have the deed done because it relieves them of the responsibility to care about what their dogs do. And the vets don't help, always going on about this, that or the other on why it should be done but none of their blather holds up under examination. It always comes down to......'it's just done unless your breeding'.
!#$&($#^*(^ people.
But just ask a vet about vasectomy or tying the tubes instead of a hysterectomy or castration. Watch their head explode.
No no it does not calm them down or less aggressive, if anything it will make him less sure of himself without those hormones and make him insecure and sharper among other side effects like diminished body stature and discontinued bone development.
Just a guess.

LOL, don't worry about him being frustrated.
He takes care of himself the same way we all do if we alone and feeling ahem frustrated.

A scratch under the chin from me to Black.

I gave him a scratch for you and will do so again. Thanks for the insight, I was really thinking of getting him fixed. Just having another opinion is helpful, thank you. I had no idea he could take care of his own "needs" ... lol ... oh gosh, I have questions but will leave this as is, happy he's happy!

I spent New Year's eve on the back porch with Black, from 11 pm until about 2 am, during the gunshots and fireworks time period. I normally let him inside when guns are being shot and fireworks blasting, as it upsets him so bad. He is barking, growling, foaming at the mouth, hyperventilating, a mess, from one end of the yard to the other, nonstop. But this time, I sat outside with him during these traumatic moments for him. It was really great. I was able to keep him calm during the gunshots, letting him know he did not have to be afraid and try to kill it. It looked like fear. By the end of the night, he could sit with the gunshots without a bark, but the fireworks (bright colors, with sound, almost coming down in the yard it seemed) was not resolved. There were not enough of them for him to learn to calm down. It was a great experience. I saw what exactly triggered him, and I look forward to next time we can work on this.

Your suggestion for letting him learn my voice and be obedient to it, has been put into practice. I see improvement already. Even for the new year's eve experience, my voice helped to calm him. Some things I only have to look at him, and he knows what to do. Beautiful.

Thanks for everything. Happy New Year, give Strider a hug for me!

Much Love and Peace.



Destee

 

[ogoun]

This would be a great test for Black. I think he'd be protective, but I really don't know.

I did some searching on french ring clubs, nothing real close to me, but most events I did see were canceled due to covid. The sites seem to have events / competitions, but I don't see actual opportunities to test your dog. It seems a K-9 handler is needed here, which are closer to me, that can see what Black is made of. I was thinking about taking him to PetSmart, they have a dog training class, even 1 on 1 classes, but I've never done it. To look at Black, he's frightening, so I'd need someone who is not afraid of his bark and stature. Not sure PetSmart is up for that. This makes me want to do more with him though, I'll keep looking. Thanks for the ideas!

I wouldn't think of it so much as a test than having the information and learning of what his boundaries (thresholds) are for the direction of where or what you need to handle him. If you find a helper (decoy) willing to take on the task they will give their opinion, that's what you pay them for.
On finding a helper...............just like all handlers and trainers everyone has an opinion and usually none of it matches the other and very often contradicts the other. Yeh I know not much help. But the thing is all of them (the helpers) see and work with more dogs in any given month then either one of us will work with in a life time. Finding a good helper is the trick. A good helper is one who works with the individual dog rather than having a cookie cutter training fits all dogs mentality.
You don't seem to be inclined to join a sports club (French ring, Schutzhund, PSA (Protection Sport Assn.), etc etc) and thats ok and attending any of those competitive events aren't likely to help in what your looking for because all the dogs and handlers on the field have trained their animal to the singular exercises in that one endeavor and by necessity there'll be only very subtle differences between how this or that helper will work the dogs. However if you go to the clubs where they meet and train the animals you can readily see how a helper works this dog different then that dog. It it always the same or is each dog handled on it's own terms and limitations? When you observe one that seems the most adaptive in working with each individual dog, approach him after the club business is done and talk to him about what you have in mind.
PetSmart?????? If you want to see the product of PetSmart training just go to the local dog park and watch for awhile.

Is Strider tested for the fight or flight mode?

Do you know if he will wimp out with a burglar, or attack?

It sounds like you're really into the dog world, I bet he knows how to do everything. Pretty awesome!

I've never seen Strider back away from anything, but no I've never actually tested him. But then again over the 13 or is it 14 years? he's been at my side I've got plenty of stories to assuage any wonder in my mind of how he may respond to most any given scenario.

Actually what Strider knows truth be told is that he is king of the world and dares anything man or beast to prove him wrong. He's possessive and territorial to the max with just enough prey drive to be able to work with him. He doesn't particularly like people other than to check them out, doesn't like to be pet or physically handled at all (even by me). He's locked, loaded and cocked at all times looking for even the smallest offense.
That's what Strider knows.....has known since he was about 8 weeks old which is when he came into my life.

I've been into the dog world my whole life or rather dogs and I have had a relationship for as long as I can remember.
I learn something new with every dog I meet.

I spent New Year's eve on the back porch with Black, from 11 pm until about 2 am, during the gunshots and fireworks time period. I normally let him inside when guns are being shot and fireworks blasting, as it upsets him so bad. He is barking, growling, foaming at the mouth, hyperventilating, a mess, from one end of the yard to the other, nonstop. But this time, I sat outside with him during these traumatic moments for him. It was really great. I was able to keep him calm during the gunshots, letting him know he did not have to be afraid and try to kill it. It looked like fear. By the end of the night, he could sit with the gunshots without a bark, but the fireworks (bright colors, with sound, almost coming down in the yard it seemed) was not resolved. There were not enough of them for him to learn to calm down. It was a great experience. I saw what exactly triggered him, and I look forward to next time we can work on this.

That kind of work is called flooding in training parlance. Sometimes it works if the dog is inwardly stable enough to take it. Often times though flooding over whelms them and makes the problem even worse. Careful how you use it.
If you give him something else to do he enjoys to distract him while all the (random) noises are going on at the same time may be a better course. It'll give him some relieve from the inner tension he's experiencing.

Some things I only have to look at him, and he knows what to do. Beautiful.

Yes dogs respond better to body language than words.

 

[Destee]

I wouldn't think of it so much as a test than having the information and learning of what his boundaries (thresholds) are for the direction of where or what you need to handle him. If you find a helper (decoy) willing to take on the task they will give their opinion, that's what you pay them for.
On finding a helper...............just like all handlers and trainers everyone has an opinion and usually none of it matches the other and very often contradicts the other. Yeh I know not much help. But the thing is all of them (the helpers) see and work with more dogs in any given month then either one of us will work with in a life time. Finding a good helper is the trick. A good helper is one who works with the individual dog rather than having a cookie cutter training fits all dogs mentality.
You don't seem to be inclined to join a sports club (French ring, Schutzhund, PSA (Protection Sport Assn.), etc etc) and thats ok and attending any of those competitive events aren't likely to help in what your looking for because all the dogs and handlers on the field have trained their animal to the singular exercises in that one endeavor and by necessity there'll be only very subtle differences between how this or that helper will work the dogs. However if you go to the clubs where they meet and train the animals you can readily see how a helper works this dog different then that dog. It it always the same or is each dog handled on it's own terms and limitations? When you observe one that seems the most adaptive in working with each individual dog, approach him after the club business is done and talk to him about what you have in mind.
PetSmart?????? If you want to see the product of PetSmart training just go to the local dog park and watch for awhile.


I've never seen Strider back away from anything, but no I've never actually tested him. But then again over the 13 or is it 14 years? he's been at my side I've got plenty of stories to assuage any wonder in my mind of how he may respond to most any given scenario.

Actually what Strider knows truth be told is that he is king of the world and dares anything man or beast to prove him wrong. He's possessive and territorial to the max with just enough prey drive to be able to work with him. He doesn't particularly like people other than to check them out, doesn't like to be pet or physically handled at all (even by me). He's locked, loaded and cocked at all times looking for even the smallest offense.
That's what Strider knows.....has known since he was about 8 weeks old which is when he came into my life.

I've been into the dog world my whole life or rather dogs and I have had a relationship for as long as I can remember.
I learn something new with every dog I meet.


That kind of work is called flooding in training parlance. Sometimes it works if the dog is inwardly stable enough to take it. Often times though flooding over whelms them and makes the problem even worse. Careful how you use it.
If you give him something else to do he enjoys to distract him while all the (random) noises are going on at the same time may be a better course. It'll give him some relieve from the inner tension he's experiencing.


Yes dogs respond better to body language than words.

Hi @ogoun ... how are you and Strider? Thanks for the encouraging words above.

Love You!



Destee

 

[Destee]

Black killed again ... and I had to clean up the dead body ...