Black People : Black Nationalism, Afrocentrists, and the IR

Discussion in 'Black People Open Forum' started by medusanegrita, May 11, 2010.

  1. medusanegrita

    medusanegrita Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I've gone through the IR threads and I didn't exactly see what I wanted, so I'm starting a new one.

    Lena Horne.
    Eartha Kitt.
    Malcolm X.
    Maya Angelou.
    Pam Grier.
    Huey Newton.
    James Earl Jones.
    Richard Pryor.
    Bob Marley.
    Thurgood Marshall
    Angela Davis
    Amiri Baracka

    These black people are well respected ICONS in their respective careers of film, literature, comedy, politics, and black nationalism.

    Yet they were all involved in IR's at some point, and many of them married or had long term relationships with white people or non-blacks.

    I don't understand how many of you can propose to down IR's and hate them, say they are the source of so much trouble with black identity and racial divisions, and yet embrace many of the black people who had relationships like that. THAT seems contrary or hypocritical to me.

    I was cited as being contrary or hypocritical when I addressed that I was (more or less) OK with IR's, would even consider one, yet had trouble with someone (anyone) losing their 'blackness' or 'black consciousness' in the process or pursuit of an IR. It wasn't the IR that bugged me so much - it was whether or not you were going to remain in the interest, spirit, and struggle of black people and their intended interest.

    Those black people named above, and many more are apparently respected for doing just that - remaining true and faithful to the cause and love of black people and black interest... in spite of(?) being with, dating, or married to white folks and non-blacks.

    What makes them different and how? How do you reconcile your respect for these black icons while glossing over the fact that many were indeed in interracial relationships?

    And how come you think others can't be like that or do that?
     
  2. RAPTOR

    RAPTOR Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    ...Is possible to like some things about a person and dislike other things
    about that same person?

    For example, I respect master p as a business man, but he sucks as a rapper.
    I would argue that the garbage he was putting on wax had a negative
    influence on the youth.

    And so to be clear on one aspect of your roster, malcom little dated white
    women, not malcom x. ...Feel me?

    As for many others, they were not afrikan centered/nationalist.
    Davis was more feminist/communist than black nationalist. Opposing
    the million man march? What's that all about? Me personally, I find her suspect, so....
     
  3. Ankhur

    Ankhur Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Malcolm X was asked the question and his response was, "when a man and a womsn are in love it's no ones business but them"
    (Louis Lomax)
     
  4. medusanegrita

    medusanegrita Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Bully. It's blatant hypocrisy, and I know this from the responses in the IR threads I've been apart of and the ones I've read. How can you separate something very essential to a person and say 'I like this about you, but not that.' And my concerns are questions are not being answered, and perhaps they are unlikely to be.

    That's like me saying 'well we having a gathering of couples, but don't bring your wife. We like you, but not her.'

    Or a more relate-able instance.... We are having a One Million Black People March, all are welcome. But remember, it's One Million Black People. We love you, know you're down, but you know we never cared for your white husband, so don't bring him.'

    In one instance I got chewed out for interest in an IR, and then in the next that same person highly regarded the sentiments of a gentleman that was said to be 'not black.'

    I'm beginning to go all over the place here, and I want to stick with in my initial post which describes the point of this thread and voices what I have to say or ask more succinctly. I will no longer respond until there are some comments I agree with. :wave:
     
  5. river

    river Watch Her Flow MEMBER

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    For the record. Angela Davis opposed the million man march because it basically upheld patriarchy. Black women were/are being asked to believe that one oppressor would liberate us from another oppressor and now we are held in suspicion because we don't believe this.

    If it had been called the million Black folks march or the million Africans march Dav is would have had no problem with it.

    We rise and fall together. As long as one group feels left out you can not expect the cooperation of that group. Yet Black women have continued to support you. We just get tired sometimes.
     
  6. Chinelo

    Chinelo Third Eye Is Always Open MEMBER

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    Sister your REAL goals and love are showing clearly, you are way to much interested in the philosophy behind "MIXING", its in all your posts someway or somehow all over.......smh

    Anyways I WAKE PEOPLE UP........:


    http://henriettavintondavis.wordpress.com/2008/08/01/black-women-who-were-lynched-in-america/

    Jennie Steers

    On July 25, 1903 a mob lynched Jennie Steers on the Beard Plantation in Louisiana for supposedly giving a white teenager, 16 year-old Elizabeth Dolan, a glass of poisoned lemonade. Before they killed her, the mob tried to force her to confess but she refused and was hanged.(100 Years at Lynching. Ralph Ginzburg)

    Laura Nelson

    Laura Nelson was lynched on May 23, 1911 In Okemah, Okluskee, Oklahoma. Her fifteen year old son was also lynched at the same time but I could not find a photo of her son. The photograph of Nelson was drawn from a postcard. Authorities accused her of killing a deputy sheriff who supposedly stumbled on some stolen goods in her house. Why they lynched her child is a mystery. The mob raped and dragged Nelson six miles to the Canadian River and hanged her from a bridge.(NAACP: One Hundred Years of Lynching in the US 1889-1918 )

    Ann Barksdale or Ann Bostwick

    The lynchers maintained that Ann Barksdale or Ann Bostwlck killed her female employer in Pinehurst, Georgia on June 24, 1912. Nobody knows if or why Barksdale or Bostick killed her employer because there was no trial and no one thought to take a statement from this Black woman who authorities claimed had ”violent fits of insanity” and should have been placed in a hospital.

    Nobody was arrested and the crowd was In a festive mood. Placed in a car with a rope around her neck, and the other end tied to a tree limb, the lynchers drove at high speed and she was strangled to death. For good measure the mob shot her eyes out and shot enough bullets Into her body that she was “cut in two.”

    Marie Scott

    March 31, 1914, a white mob of at least a dozen males, yanked seventeen year-old Marie Scott from jail, threw a rope over her head as she screamed and hanged her from a telephone pole in Wagoner County, Oklahoma. What happened? Two drunken white men barged Into her house as she was dressing. They locked themselves in her room and criminally “assaulted” her.

    Her brother apparently heard her screams for help, kicked down the door, killed one assailant and fled. Some accounts state that the assailant was stabbed. Frustrated by their inability to lynch Marie Scott’s brother the mob lynched Marie Scott.(Crisis 1914 and 100 Years of Lynching)

    Mary Turner 1918

    Eight Months Pregnant
    Mobs lynched Mary Turner on May 17, 1918 in Lowndes County. Georgia because she vowed to have those responsible for killing her husband arrested. Her husband was arrested in connection with the shooting and killing Hampton Smith, a white farmer for whom the couple had worked, and wounding his wife. Sidney Johnson. a Black, apparently killed Smith because he was tired of the farmer’s abuse. Unable to find Johnson. the killers lynched eight other Blacks Including Hayes Turner and his wife Mary.

    The mob hanged Mary by her feet, poured gasoline and oil on her and set fire to her body. One white man sliced her open and Mrs. Turner’s baby tumbled to the ground with a “little cry” and the mob stomped the baby to death and sprayed bullets into Mary Turner.(NAACP: Thirty Years of Lynching in the U.S. 1889-1918 )
     
  7. Chinelo

    Chinelo Third Eye Is Always Open MEMBER

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    Maggie Howze and Alma Howze -

    Both Pregnant
    Accused of the murder of Dr. E.L. Johnston in December 1918. Whites lynched Andrew Clark, age 15, Major Clark, age 20, Maggie Howze, age 20, and Alma Howze, age 16 from a bridge near Shutaba, a town in Mississippi.

    The local press described Johnston as being a wealthy dentist, but he did not have an established business in the true sense of the word. He sought patients by riding his buggy throughout the community offering his services to the public at large in Alabama. Unable to make money “peddling” dentistry, the dentist returned to Mississippi to work on his father’s land near Shabuta. During his travels he had developed an intimate relationship with Maggie Howze. a Black woman who he had asked to move and lived with him. He also asked that she bring her sister Alma Howze along. While using the Black young women as sexual objects Johnson impregnated both of them though he was married and had a child.

    Three Black laborers worked on Johnston’s plantation, two of whom were brothers, Major and Andrew Clark. Major tried to court Maggie, but Johnson was violently opposed to her trying to create a world of her own that did not include him. To block a threat to his sexual fiefdom, Johnston threaten Clark’s life. Shortly after Johnston turned up dead and the finger was pointed at Major Clark and the Howze sisters. The whites picked up Major, his brother, Maggie and her sister and threw them in jail.

    To extract a confession from Major Clark, the authorities placed his testicles between the “jaws of a vise” and slowly closed it until Clark admitted that he killed Johnston. White community members took the four Blacks out of jail, placed them in an automobile, turned the head lights out and headed to the lynching site. Eighteen other cars, carrying members of the mob, followed close behind. Someone shut the power plant down and the town fell into darkness. Ropes were placed around the necks of the four Blacks and the other ends tied to the girder of the bridge. Maggie Howze cried,“I ain’t guilty of killing the doctor and you oughtn’t to kill me.” Someone took a monkey wrench and “struck her In the mouth with It, knocking her teeth out. She was also hit across the head with the same instrument, cutting a long gash In which the side of a person’s hand could be placed.”
     
  8. Chinelo

    Chinelo Third Eye Is Always Open MEMBER

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    While the three other Blacks were killed instantly, Maggie Howze, four months pregnant, managed to grab the side of the bridge to break her fall. She did this twice before she died and the mob joked about how difficult it was to kill that “big Jersey woman.” No one stepped forward to claim the bodies. No one held funeral services for the victims. The Black community demanded that the whites cut them down and bury them because they ‘lynched them.” The whites placed them in unmarked graves.

    Alma Howze was on the verge of giving birth when the whites killed her. One witness claimed that at her “burial on the second day following, the movements of her unborn child could be detected.” Keep in mind, Johnston’s parents felt that the Blacks had nothing to do with their son’s death and that some irate white man killed him, knowing that the blame would fall on the Black’s shoulders. The indefatigable Walter White, NAACP secretary, visited the scene of the execution and crafted the report. He pressed Governor Bilbo of Mississippi to look into the lynching and Bilbo told the NAACP to go to hell.(NAACP: Thirty Years of Lynching in the U.S.. 1889-1918 )(Papers of the NAACP)

    Holbert Burnt at the Stake

    Luther Holbert, a Black, supposedly killed James Eastland, a wealthy planter and John Carr, a negro, who lived near Doddsville Mississippi. After a hundred mile chase over four days, the mob of more than 1,000 persons caught Luther and his wife and tied them both to trees.

    They were forced to hold out their hands while one finger at a time was chopped off and their ears were cut off. Pieces of raw quivering flesh was pulled out of their arms, legs and body with a bore screw and kept for souvenirs. Holbert was beaten and his skull fractured. An eye was knocked out with a stick and hung from the socket.
     
  9. Chinelo

    Chinelo Third Eye Is Always Open MEMBER

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    American mobs lynched some 5.000 Blacks since 1859, scores of whom were women, several of them pregnant. Rarely did the killers spend time in jail because the white mobs and the government officials who protected them believed justice meant (just us) white folks. Lynching denied Blacks the right to a trial or the right to due process. No need for a lawyer and a jury of your peers: the white community decided what happened and what ought to be done. After the whites accused Laura Nelson of killing a white deputy In Oklahoma, they raped this Black woman, tied her to a bridge trestle and for good measure, They lynched her son from a telephone pole. Had the white community reacted in horror after viewing the dangling corpses of Laura Nelson and her son? No, they came by the hundreds, making their way by cars, horse driven wagons, and by foot to view the lynching.

    Dressed in their Sunday best, holding their children’s hands and hugging their babies the white on-lookers looked forward to witnessing the spectacle of a modern day crucifixion. They snapped pictures of Laura Nelson, placed them on postcards and mailed them to their friends boasting about the execution. They chopped of f the fingers, sliced off the ears of Ms. Holbert, placed the parts In jars of alcohol and displayed them in their windows.
     
  10. Chinelo

    Chinelo Third Eye Is Always Open MEMBER

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    So who are our real heroes?. Little Kim Is not a hero. Oprah is not a hero.. Whoople Goldberg is not a hero. Michael Jordan is not a hero. Dennis Rodman Is not a hero. They are entertainers, sport figures. creations of the media, media icons and they are about making huge sums of money and we wish these enterprising stars well.

    Mary Turner, Laura Nelson, Marie Scott and Jennie Steers are your true historical heroes. N**** they were not. B***hes they were not. H*** they were not. They will not go down in history for plastering their bodies with tattoos, inventing exotic diets, endorsing Gator Ade, embracing studIo gangsterism, They were strong beautiful Black women who suffered excruciating pain, died horrible deaths. Their legacy of -strength lives on. These are my heroes. Make them yours as well.
     
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