Black People : Black Indians

chuck

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Aug 9, 2003
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Bruh,

You can not deny the contributions First Nation folk have made to BLACK culture. Notice you said you are Black not African. There is no distraction. This is the part of teaching a certain part of our heritage.

Chuck:

On point...

On time...

You wrote:

I thought this was Destee's mission: "We Are About Loving, Encouraging, Embracing, Teaching and Building With Black People. No Hate Allowed."

This thread does not go against this mission whatsoever. If you feel it is a distraction, you have the discretion and not participate.

Tuhwi
Chuck:

Yes...

I feel and think that brother James means well...

But...

Nobody knows 'everything'...

And...

If my past or present experiences posting on message boards etc. have taught me anything?

I've learned that I also have to be patient--forgiving--etc.--i. e., as regards hoping and praying to gain us and our peoples new allies, since we've got enough acknowledged or unacknowledged enemies as it is!

FYI...
 

chuck

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Aug 9, 2003
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I am familiar with William Lorenz Katz, and his well researched book BBlack Indians,and here in NYC there is the Shinakok nation that looks like red bone Black folks, however in all honesty, there are some Black folks with kinky hair and African features who say they are not of African descent, but want to be called indigenous but I never heard anyone from the First Nations want to call themseves African.

Just an observation, of elements of Black culture and history, as we all know there were those during the times of Jim Crow that passed as White.
Chuck:

Yes...

Let us always give props to allies of all black people--such as William Katz...

And...

Let us also give props to the past (as well as present) black indian contributors to this topic thread...

But...

Are there colored and blacks pretending to be things they aren't either?

ONE guess!

My and our efforts here go on to set the record straight about that too!

FYI...
 

chuck

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Aug 9, 2003
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Chuck:

Do keep in mind some of what we're reposting here was never or seldom in anybody's black history books either...

Also they need and should want to hear us out--James included--because when some of our sellouts and traitors take things to the ultmate extremes--which predate those mainstays of some casino rich nations resort to as well--one word is on more minds--whenever and wherever we speak up and out:

DISENROLLMENT!

FYI...



The reality is Black culture in America would not be what it is today if it were not for First Nation influences. I'm from Louisiana, we would not have gumbo as we know it. Any of you Black folk that remember Friday night fish frys - forget about it. Africans do not fry fish like we do. Forget about cornbread especially with chili beans and smoked meat, preferrably turkey. You wouldn't be eating grits, either. There would be no John de Conqueror root as we know it in rootwork. We would not use Master root, Angelica root, Seneca Snake root and a few other roots because African people didn't know about these roots. The Buckeye would not be used.

In the early colonial period, the colony of South Carolina, outside of eventually becoming a Black majority, engaged in a regionalized Indian slave trade which ultimately placed captive Indians and captive Africans together on slave plantations in South Carolina, Georgia, Virginia and North Carolina. Many groups of Indians became extinct as political entities due to slave raiding expeditions from neighboring Indian groups and subsequent placement on tobacco and rice plantations. The slave raiding became so pronounced that two Indian wars were fought to resist it: the Tuscarora War 1711-1715 and the Yamasee War 1715-1717.

To deny the profound impact First Nation people, especially Southereastern groups, had on Black culture in the United States shows a lack of understanding about Black culture and it is negligent to presuppose such. Tons upon tons of evidence documents, for better or worse, the relationship between Black folks and Indians. Has this relationship always been a good one? No! Yet when we think about how the Natchez took in runaway Bambara captives from New Orleans and ultimately paid a severe price, for that action and their refusal to allow the French to retreive those escaped Bambara people, we can see that contention can not always define that relationship.

In the end, it is a sad day in Black America, when in our ignorance of our own becoming we seek to label, alienate and separate our own. One can not question where another's loyalties lie until performance has caused suspicion. Those of us, so puffed up in our Africanism, have become blind to our own unique history as Black folk in the United States. What I find ironic is many of these same folks know little to nothing about Africa and her people besides things they read in books from Afrocentric writers or "spiritual gurus". Alot of these people don't even know about the Africanisms in their own families except that mama and daddy both had dark skin and kinky hair. Everything can not be based on phenotype alone.

Tuhwi
 

chuck

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Aug 9, 2003
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It is my understanding that Thomas Jefferson etc. ideas for the uniting of the former British and European colonies on the basis of indigenous practices and traditions:

Some 'compliment' to run their off their lands:

Worse the fate of some who dared to come to the aid of our distant african relations!

Do keep that in mind , tool, destee posters...

FYI...
 

Blackbird

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This thread was first started as a means of self-education and self-reflection for those like me, people who have some identifiable native ancestry within their Black family. However, as the thread progressed and took on varying nature, it has shown me that this topic of Black Indians is not one merely of intellectual rationalizing but more so hearing and listening to spirit. This thread exposed for me, in my naivete, the gaping hole of identity that exists among Black people today as we attempt to define and describe just who we are and what is the Black experience. We each bring to the collective table certain unique backgrounds and experiences that shape and mold our ways for seeing, collecting and categorying things, as well as, how we view and process information.

We must learn that Black people are not monolithic. What we share in common is our recent arrival from Africa under the duress and oppression of servitude and captivity, our ancestors' low status in American society and the continued oppression of being people of a darker skin. Yes, as a collective group, we have experienced the Code Noir (Black Codes), Jim Crow, the Civil Rights Movement, the Black Power Movement, the integration of the 1970's and 1980's, the low quality of living throughout the decades due to improper health care, social and economic redlining and exclusion, environmental racism, police and legal injustice, self-hate cycles of black on black homocide, drug use and incomplete households with immature parenting - as a collective we have all expereinced this. But if this is what defines being Black and the Black experience I must say your script was written by the writers of Good Times.

Yet, what is undeniable is the relationship between Black and Red peoples and the fact that their interaction created a new addition to the Black experience both in terms of physical and cultural progeny. Anyone wishing not to see this relationship, as I stated for better or for worse, is sorely amiss and operates within a caricature of the Black world created and manipulated by white mass media tempered by a Black man's shallowed mind intolerance framed by the same ideas detailed in the Willie Lynch letter. You ain't black, ***** you too light. Your hair is too fine You from the Northside.

For those who find themselves in a similar position such as myself, being involved in two worlds - no fault of your own (it's just your heritage) - I say let no one define who you are. Stay true to your being. Have courage. I had to come to grips some time ago that I have another heritage that was not only Black. So focused I was only on Africa and Black matters, that an ancestor visited me in a dream. This ancestor said, "Do you not know me? I am you." Later in was Vodouisants that encouraged my complete and confident acceptance of myself for who I was. I was afraid of being a Black person trying to be Indian. I would ask why do I always think about Indians when I'm Black. I came to find out that I have just as many Indian spirits around me as African spirits and one of my Indian spirits actually pushed me towards Vodou. In Vodou my met tet is Kouzen Azaka. Bonswa Kouzen. Ayibobo...

This journey has been about listening to spirit and allowing spirit to guide. I do not need to parade my "Black" credentials in front of anyone and neither should you. Anyone who questions your Blackness due to your interest in certain topics has only found areas within themselves where they have become insincere in their own "Blackness."

Black Indians, for better or worse, legitimate or not, are a fact within the Black experience and any mentioning of their existence is only a discussion of the Black experience itself. Any attempt to confuse it as any thing else clearly exposes the ignroance of those trying to cloud and stifled the conversation to their own personal dsilike and displeasure.

Tuhwi
 

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