Pan Africanism : Black Brazillians and Black Hispanics

Discussion in 'Black History - Culture - Panafricanism' started by African_Prince, Mar 14, 2005.

  1. African_Prince

    African_Prince Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Here are some links on Brazils Black population. Whenever people talk about pan-African relations it seems they always talk about Africans/Black Americans, Africans/West Indian Blacks, West Indian/American Blacks, yet Brazil has the worlds second largest Black population.

    http://www.raceandhistory.com/cgi-bin/forum/webbbs_config.pl/noframes/read/96

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/2303059.stm

    http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=7104

    http://www.latinamericanstudies.org/brazil/black-brazilians.htm

    http://www.capoeirista.com/history_1_1.html

    http://www.brazil.org.uk/page.php?cid=1113

    http://www.newint.org/issue226/black.htm

    I'd also like to know why people kick Afro-Latino's out of the general Afro-Caribbean population and Black diaspora in general? I had a friend (Jamaican/Guyanese ) who swore there were no Black Latinos. We were talking about Sammy Sosa and Felix Trinidad and he had said "he's not Black, he's Spanish" and I said "there are Black Latinos" , and he still disagreed with me, I tried to explain to him that Puerto Rican, Cuban, Dominican are nationalities not races, and there are Black Dominicans/Puerto Ricans/Cubans just like there are Black Americans because African slaves were dropped off not only in the US but all over the Caribbean ( the Caribbean includes Cuba, Puerto Rico and the DR ) and in some central/south American nations, but he didn't really take me seriously. My friend may be out of it, but alot of people seem to kick Afro-Latino's out of the Black race, even the ones who accept that 'Black' doesn't refer to Black Americans alone. What's this I hear about Afro-Latinos being ashamed of their Blackness, and this will sound stupid, but why do they continue to marry other Afro-Latinos if they were, their not completely assimilated in Puerto Rico, Cuba etc. When some people describe Black Latinos, they always say "dark skinned Puerto Ricans" or "dark skinned Cubans" and I've heard "dark skinned Brazillians" and won't just say Black Cuban/Puerto Rican/ Black Dominican etc. What's so abstract about the fact that African slaves were dropped off in Spanish speaking countries just like in America and the West Indies ( which technically refers to the English speaing Caribbean ), if someone is dark skinned with kinky hair and African features how are they not racially Black? Miguel Nunez, Carlos Cooks, the fat dark skinned comic from Coming To the Stage, Merlin Santana ( r.i.p), the dude I knew from gr8, Felix Trinidad, Fabolous ( half-Dominican ), Christina Milian ( if I'm not mistaken ) etc. are all clearly Black from Spanish speaking countries. Sorry if that sounded stupid but it bothers me. We're not talking about Dravidians or Aboriginee Australians/Pacific Islanders but people descended from African slaves just like American/West Indian Blacks. I don't know if I'm making a big deal of this but what do you think?
     
  2. Sun Ship

    Sun Ship Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    We're already on it...you're just new here my Brother...

    Brother African Prince, I appreciate your concerns and the web links you have offered, but we (Destee’s family) have always been “all-inclusive” of the Pan African Diasporic community.

    If anything, the experience here at this forum has been just the opposite of what you noted in your post. We have had many Latinos of African descent, come here and argue against being identified with or accepted into the broader African diasporic family. They have fought vehemently, against being considered Black or Afro-“whatever”. But we have had some other Afro-Latinos, who have stood up with us and against this type of xenophobia among their Latino brothers.

    Here is one of several long threads we have started here honoring and recognizing the accomplishments, commonalties and struggles of our Afro-Latino brothers. Maybe Brother Panafrica or I can post for you, the links to the other threads later.


    Afro-Latinos and Pan Africanism

    Peace

    Brother Sun Ship :cool:
     
  3. Orisons

    Orisons Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Most of us are confused.

    Here are some links on Brazils Black population. Whenever people talk about pan-African relations it seems they always talk about Africans/Black Americans, Africans/West Indian Blacks, West Indian/American Blacks, yet Brazil has the worlds second largest Black population.

    I'd also like to know why people kick Afro-Latino's out of the general Afro-Caribbean population and Black diaspora in general? I had a friend (Jamaican/Guyanese ) who swore there were no Black Latinos. Orisons: He’s right in that there are no Black people anywhere in the Diaspora, but there are nearly 100 million of us of African ethnicity.

    Africans were separated from our names, language, culture and history in order to keep us direction less and totally baffled and confused, thus if you compare our communities in the Diaspora and countries in Africa with Europe and Europeans or Asians and Asia you can see how devastatingly effective this strategy has been at repressing us collectively in every area of human activity.

    Language in particular is the operating system for the brain like Windows XP or NT is for computers, thus making it very difficult for peoples of African ethnicity in the USA and the rest of the Diaspora to sidestep European influence because their language is literally our mother tongue.

    An easy example of this concept at work is the fact that we insist on using the word Black when what we are actually describing is our African ethnicity.

    Black apart from being consistently inaccurate [there are hundreds of millions of brown/black skinned Indians who are not of African ethnicity] is also consistently used within European cultures as a disparaging term, i.e. Black Day, The Black Death, Black Magic, Blackmail, Blackout etc whereas no one says African Day, Africanmail, Africanout, which is why African is preferable to Black on every level.
     
  4. African_Prince

    African_Prince Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    'Black' refers to people of African descent ( and I'm just seeing where you put 'he's right in that...' but that's not what he meant ). Most diasporan Black people don't consider themselves 'African' anymore and will even deny the significance of their being of African descent in relation to their being 'Black', if nothing other than ease of conversation, Black is the race and African, Afro-American, Afro-Caribbean, Afro-Latino ( would Black Brazillians be considered Black 'Latino's since Brazil is Portuguese speaking? ) are the ethnicities within the 'race'. East Indians ( esp. Dravidians ), Aboriginee Australians/Pacific Islanders and whatever other people of color may be very dark skinned even with 'Africoid' features but are not of African descent ( as in within the last 500 years ). I understand what you're saying about language, Antwone Fisher touched on that in 'Finding Fish' ( one of my favorite books ) but what do you think about Afro-Latino's and their position within the Black diaspora? There are English speaking, French speaking, Portuguese speaking, of course African languages speaking Black people, why couldn't my friend see that those Black Puerto Ricans, Dominicans, Cubans are just Spanish speaking Black people?

    Sunship, I had already skimmed through 'Afro-Latino's and pan-Africanism' before I started this, I haven't read 'Are Latino's African Too?'.
     
  5. panafrica

    panafrica Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    You need to read that thread, you also need to read Latinos or Afro-Latinos. This particular forum has covered black people in almost every corner of the world!
     
  6. Sun Ship

    Sun Ship Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    African Prince what Brother Panafrica said is true…There are maybe at least 3-4 rather lengthy threads and several short threads dealing with Afro-Latinos (including Black Brazilians).

    I’m not going to get into the semantics of language and cultural identity, but the Portuguese language is really in the Latin language family also, and the term Latino, though it has important cultural significance, is almost a cultural euphemism, basically it defines no more and no less, than what you give it. Just like the term “Black”.

    There are probably more African Americans who believe Afro-Dominicans are "Black" or "of African descent", than Afro-Dominicans do. _lol

    Matter of fact, as far as “Black” is concerned socio-politically, I was involved in a very long debate and discourse (the thread is right here at Destee), defending a broader inclusion of Melanesians (Oceanic Negroid), Aborigines, Southern Asiatic Africoids (especially untouchables) and many other phenotypically Africoid people…who are called Black and call themselves Black, who are socially treated like us, sometimes identify with our struggle and many times have tried to reach out to us for Black solidarity and support. Brother, I was denounced and castigated by an African student, who said we were genetically closer to Caucasians, than these other distant Africoid (Negroid) people and basically I should leave them alone and forget about any commonalities whatsoever. (That debate may have been at the end of an Afro-Latino thread) Also, this same brother didn’t even support the connections between ancient Nile Valley civilizations and West Africa!!

    Brother African Prince, you are welcome to post whatever you feel about this subject and I hope you have many replies, but we have looked at the Afro-Latino question exhaustively and we are in solidarity with ALL of our African diasporic family, regardless of language.

    Basically, we are always supporting people, who rarely support us. And identify with people, who rarely identify with us...

    But like I’ve said many times, “same tribes, different ships” that’s all… “same tribes, different ships”


    Peace,

    Brother Sun:cool:
     
  7. African_Prince

    African_Prince Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I'll get around to reading those threads.

    "Matter of fact, as far as “Black” is concerned socio-politically, I was involved in a very long debate and discourse (the thread is right here at Destee), defending a broader inclusion of Melanesians (Oceanic Negroid), Aborigines, Southern Asiatic Africoids (especially untouchables) and many other phenotypically Africoid people…"

    To be honest, I don't see the Dravidians of south India or Aboriginee Australians/Pacific Islanders to be Black/of African descent, no disrespect to them or Runoko Rashidi.
     
  8. panafrica

    panafrica Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    We've already included them as well!
     
  9. African_Prince

    African_Prince Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Why? ( no disrespect to them )
     
  10. panafrica

    panafrica Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    read the link:

    http://www.kamat.com/kalranga/people/siddi.htm

    This site is accompanied with pictures of obviously African people.
     
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