Black Spirituality Religion : Black atheists

African_Prince said:
I am also an atheist and a materialist. In short, religion/the idea of God is a mental straitjacket that undermines our ability to rely on ourselves for emotional support. If nothing else, it is simply illogical and disconnects us from reality.

Where does the order in our physical reality come from? Can you tell us anything that has an order ( we can recognize ) manifest it self by accident or chance.

Peace
 
hiphopolx said:
Where does the order in our physical reality come from? Can you tell us anything that has an order ( we can recognize ) manifest it self by accident or chance.

Peace

I'm not a scientist but I'm sure you could research this and find something compatible with those very same natural laws you are using to support the existence of a supernatural deity (maybe I'm misunderstanding and you're really just asking me, either way, I can't tell you much about physics).

The only scientific truth I can tell you is that all physical laws are of physical origin, why must every natural mystery of the universe be accredited to a supernatural force? People use the idea of a supernatural force as an explanation for the natural universe without explaining that supernatural force itself, which requires an even bigger explanation then the natural universe. This might help answer your question :

Causes and Physical Laws: Why God Can't Be Used as a Cause of the Universe (Book Notes: Arguing for Atheism)

Theists often insist that the universe needs an explanation and science can't provide one; therefore, their god is necessary and must be believed in. Such theists miss something, however: causal explanations are functions of natural laws which are themselves products of the universe. Therefore, they can't be used to explain the universe. Perhaps there is no 'cause' of the universe.
In Arguing for Atheism: An Introduction to the Philosophy of Religion, Robin Le Poidevin writes:

A world in which there can be causal explanation is not a chaotic world; it is a world tightly constrained by the laws of nature. Causal generalisations are simply reflections of these laws: that is, they are true because of the existence of fundamental laws. Causal explanation, then, takes place against a background of laws.

But when we come to the explanation of the universe as a whole, part of what we are required to explain is the existence of the laws themselves. We cannot therefore help ourselves to any laws in order to explain the existence of the universe. Consequently, the explanation of the universe cannot take place against a background of laws. But, since causal explanation requires such a background, there can be no causal explanation of the universe. [emphasis added]

The importance of this insight would be hard to underestimate: causality, as a concept, is based entirely upon the context of our universe. It would therefore be wrong to apply the concept to the origin of the universe. What this would mean, then, is that the universe cannot sensibly have a “cause” as we use and understand the term. If that’s the case, then these argument for the existence of gods are simply nonsensical.

In The Atheists Debater's Handbook, B.C. Johnson makes a similar point:

The theist innocently demands a cause for orderliness, forgetting, of course, that “cause” presupposes “orderliness.” Without the laws of causality, no causes would be operative. The laws of causality must therefore exist before any cause can operate. Therefore the laws of causality cannot be the result of any cause. These are laws which cannot be caused even by God.
Thus, not only is “god” not an viable explanation for the existence of the universe, but it’s not even logically possible for “god” to “cause” the existence of orderliness and causality. If there is any sort of connection between “god” and “the universe,” it’s not a causal relationship. Perhaps theists will have to come up with some new sort of mystery that “explains” the universe.

http://atheism.about.com/b/a/234644.htm

When it comes to evolution, my understanding is that the driving force behind evolution isn't chance or coincidence but natural selection (chance mutation is a part of evolution but the negative mutations are deleted by natural selection and the positive mutations are favored ).
 
African_Prince said:
I'm not a scientist but I'm sure you could research this and find something compatible with those very same natural laws you are using to support the existence of a supernatural deity (maybe I'm misunderstanding and you're really just asking me, either way, I can't tell you much about physics).

The only scientific truth I can tell you is that all physical laws are of physical origin, why must every natural mystery of the universe be accredited to a supernatural force? People use the idea of a supernatural force as an explanation for the natural universe without explaining that supernatural force itself, which requires an even bigger explanation then the natural universe. This might help answer your question :



http://atheism.about.com/b/a/234644.htm

When it comes to evolution, my understanding is that the driving force behind evolution isn't chance or coincidence but natural selection (chance mutation is a part of evolution but the negative mutations are deleted by natural selection and the positive mutations are favored ).

I know the creation of our universe was done by a conscious effort. Based on the underlying order which could not happen by accident. If I showed you a bricked house with the cement and every thing and told you it got there by accident would you believe me??

Yet you say the idea of God "If nothing else, it is simply illogical and disconnects us from reality." So I challange you to logically answer my questions
'Where does the order in our physical reality come from? Can you tell us anything that has an order ( we can recognize ) manifest it self by accident or chance.
It's easy to say ''I don't know'' so then challenge your self and please share it here when you come up with an answer. Or is it that you have a hidden agenda? (like needing a friend to talk to who is disconnected from reality and maybe not so logical LOL :lol:)

Peace
and as our bro.M.P would say
God speed
:)



P.S.
(NO!! I don't know what that means it just sounds good to me)
 

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