Black People : Bithia; the Jewel in the Nile...

[Clyde C Coger Jr]

In the Spirit of Sankofa and Truth!

SENEB

4th Dynasty – Old Kingdom [2400s BC]-

BEFORE THE GREAT WORLD FLOOD!

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CLASSICAL EGYPT: THE OLD KINGDOM

“The paint is perfectly preserved, allowing the viewer to notice at once that Seneb’s wife and daughter have pale skin, untouched by the sun, reflecting their social status as high-ranking females who work mainly indoors. In contrast, the tanned, ruddy skin of Seneb and his son is typical of Egyptian depictions of men of all ranks, who were more accustomed to working outdoors.” pg 216.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/019521952X/?tag=destee0b-20

http://books.google.com/books?id=x7...e&q=silverman, d, ancient egypt, 1997&f=false
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http://www.art-and-archaeology.com/egypt/egy61.html
http://heritage-key.com/egypt/dwarf-seneb-and-his-family

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Bro Clyde,

Thank you for your comments. Yes we do agree on the Hittites.

In regards to the Hattians in respect to the timeline, I still refer to timelines when it comes to history. But actually, I did not realize that the question was in regards to ‘the Hittites being called Hattians’ and ‘whether the Hattians are Indo-European. I never believed that the Hittites were Hattians. I believe that, like most historical accounts; the Hittites came in and took over from the Hattians.

But as far as the true origins of the Hattians, I’ve read a lot of ambiguity on this. I do, however believe that they were originally descended from Greek origins but eventually, they became a mixed civilization. I also believe that they separated based upon ‘color’ and some bonded with the Hittites while others did not. A Hatti civilization are defined by land and by date to have dominated the northern parts of Assyria and were leagued with the Hittites in Central Italy during the 1500s B.C.

I can accept your rejection of ‘the presence of white people in the 3000s B.C.’ and can agree to disagree.

In regards to ‘Mutation’ and the term ‘Asiatics’, I will offer more later, I do however believe in mutation but not in the 2000s B.C. with regards to white people. I don’t believe that they mutated at that time based upon the events that I have presented especially in regards to ‘the war fought by Narmer’ and the origins of Adam and Cain.

Peace.

Chevron,

I have had sufficient time to review the links submitted, the first two (2) covers the book of Silverman, the third covers Seneb, a high official, was head of the royal textile works under King Pepi II in the 6th Dynasty. Furthermore, it goes on to say this:

Men and male children are painted a "suntan" brownish-red, while women and female children, who spend most of their time indoors, are pale.

To take the above and apply race, especially White, I think is a terrible mistake and doesn’t help our case, but in fact pushes for establishing the White Race, to early.

The fourth and final link is more of the same concerning the Dwarf, Seneb. However, there is this:

The miniature children, however, are portrayed in a traditional manner: nude and pointing their fingers to their mouths.

Traditions, in terms of painting, style, poising, etc…is common place, and never points to a color, other than Black (dark brown) or Brown, or some varying shade thereof. Again, I think it is a mistake to infer that pale, means white, when all of us turn a lighter complexion when in doors a lot and during the winter season.

On the post contents, let’s be sure we understand our agreement on the Hittites, here is my position again:

There is no doubt that you and I agree on Heth as the progenitor of the Hittites, the bible gives us that basis of fact. The dispute between us is that the Hittites should be called the Hattians, and the Hattians are of non-Indo European descent, which matches up with the biblical account, regardless of the timeline.*

So, what remains between us is to go over your sources on mutation, and after that, it’s pretty much a rap. Again, I have thoroughly enjoyed the conversation, so to speak, and look forward to your involvement with us in the GroupThink Project-Group...Peace In my sister friend.

 

[decipherx1]

Much study is still needed on this subject.

I happen to agree w/ both perspecticves, but what is ALWAYS confusing is Egyptian chronolgy, and one must always remember:
The Egyptians nor the Jews would have wrote that much on the Hyskos
(Who were the REAL enslavers of the Jews) because they did not want to give them to much praise in the history books, because names back then were very sacred, and by remembering and repeating that persons name, you cause them to live on forever, as the Egyptains were notorious for erasing the History of Kings( and in some cases Queens) they did not like. I still am doing study on both sides and will share my studies in the future as I go along, hotep.

 

[Chevron Dove]

Chevron,

I have had sufficient time to review the links submitted, the first two (2) covers the book of Silverman, the third covers Seneb, a high official, was head of the royal textile works under King Pepi II in the 6th Dynasty. Furthermore, it goes on to say this:

Men and male children are painted a "suntan" brownish-red, while women and female children, who spend most of their time indoors, are pale.

To take the above and apply race, especially White, I think is a terrible mistake and doesn’t help our case, but in fact pushes for establishing the White Race, to early.

The fourth and final link is more of the same concerning the Dwarf, Seneb. However, there is this:

The miniature children, however, are portrayed in a traditional manner: nude and pointing their fingers to their mouths.

Traditions, in terms of painting, style, poising, etc…is common place, and never points to a color, other than Black (dark brown) or Brown, or some varying shade thereof. Again, I think it is a mistake to infer that pale, means white, when all of us turn a lighter complexion when in doors a lot and during the winter season.

On the post contents, let’s be sure we understand our agreement on the Hittites, here is my position again:

There is no doubt that you and I agree on Heth as the progenitor of the Hittites, the bible gives us that basis of fact. The dispute between us is that the Hittites should be called the Hattians, and the Hattians are of non-Indo European descent, which matches up with the biblical account, regardless of the timeline.*

So, what remains between us is to go over your sources on mutation, and after that, it’s pretty much a rap. Again, I have thoroughly enjoyed the conversation, so to speak, and look forward to your involvement with us in the GroupThink Project-Group...Peace In my sister friend.

Bro Clyde,

So I still see and read what is before me but, I appreciate your input regarding Seneb. I've been gone for awhile!

Some authors place Seneb in the 4th Dynasty because his name matches Seneferu and other details. And some place him in the 6th Dynasty. At any rate, there are a number of pale or white painted people in the Old Kingdom. And yes, there were also red-brown paintings of people as well. Whether or not, the intent, it correlates to thousands of years of color discrimination and etc. But, I again will agree to disagree on this point.


Looking forward to joining the Group Think Project! I've just returned tonight for a brief time and need to re-cooperate! Hope to spend more time on this message board next week!

 

[Clyde C Coger Jr]

In the Spirit of Sankofa and Truth!

Bro Clyde,

So I still see and read what is before me but, I appreciate your input regarding Seneb. I've been gone for awhile!

Some authors place Seneb in the 4th Dynasty because his name matches Seneferu and other details. And some place him in the 6th Dynasty. At any rate, there are a number of pale or white painted people in the Old Kingdom. And yes, there were also red-brown paintings of people as well. Whether or not, the intent, it correlates to thousands of years of color discrimination and etc. But, I again will agree to disagree on this point.


Looking forward to joining the Group Think Project! I've just returned tonight for a brief time and need to re-cooperate! Hope to spend more time on this message board next week!

Chevron,

And that is precisely my point Chevron, the scholars are guessing and no one knows for sure. As you say, some say the 4th dynasty, some say the 6th. Also, yes to color discrimination pre-existing, if you will; just look at the recent posts/threads concerning Albinos and how our people have treated with them down through years.

Don’t forget our mutation overview, and get some rest Dove, because we are excited about your decision to join the GroupThink Project-Group, we are ready to put you to work.
Your friend,

 

[Chevron Dove]

God is not the author of confusion

Chevron,

And that is precisely my point Chevron, the scholars are guessing and no one knows for sure. As you say, some say the 4th dynasty, some say the 6th. Also, yes to color discrimination pre-existing, if you will; just look at the recent posts/threads concerning Albinos and how our people have treated with them down through years.

Don’t forget our mutation overview, and get some rest Dove, because we are excited about your decision to join the GroupThink Project-Group, we are ready to put you to work.
Your friend,

Bro Clyde,

Jesus said to research the word and the scriptures. Based upon the historian's basis of Seneb in the 4th or 6th Dynasty, the point-of-reference would be the GREAT WORLD FLOOD of which, according to the detailed Biblical timeline happened between the 4th and the 6th Dynasties. In addition, Seneferu, the founder of the 4th Dynasty did have a number of white or 'pale' people defined to this dynasty [Nofret, the daughter-in-law of Seneferu]. So, my approach to Seneb is not to conclude on him in either the 4th or the 6th dynasty but, to receive what I read and see in agreement with the Word of God. I compare the Bible to secular historians and both define the presence of white people even before the time of Seneferu of the 4th Dynasty.

Remember, I base the presence of white people on Amen-the-Unifier and the descendants of both Adam and Cain, people that existed a thousand years before the 4th Dynasty!

3150 B.C. - - this is the time of the war of Amen-the-unifier

He warred against the Asiatics in North Egypt and unified Egypt.

I believe the bigger danger is not accepting the truth about script whether it is the presence of white people on the earth, or anything pertaining to human degradation is the problem with humanity. The Word of God has been blasphemed.

Bro Clyde, even if the paintings of pale people and red-brown people in the Old Kingdom [both 4th and 6th Dynasties] with STRAIGHT HAIR was done, then WHY!? Why would the aboriginal Egyptians or black people in the past allow this? How did white people come to dominate kemet [black lands], whether in 2000s BC or before? Were white people that powerful that they could overthrow the ancient blacks? What was wrong with black people that they would allow such paintings to exist for thousands of years?

MUTATION -- I still have not offered any comments on mutation yet. Science is my discipline and, as a science major, I must tell you that I'm limited on the subject of mutation. I will have to do a little more research before I can even comment. I kind of remember something about 'adaptation' as oppose to 'mutation' when I was studying about Darwinism but, I'm vague on the issue. In regards to 'albinism', I've not read that thread but, I've read much on the discrimination that albino people have receive from all humanity. As a matter of fact, the subject of 'albinism' is very much apart of my research in regards to the presence of white and in regards to the idea of mutation and genetics. I remember reading that in your book as well and this interested me greatly.