Black Christians : Bible Contradictions, Explained?

Discussion in 'Christian Study Group' started by UBNaturally, Jun 4, 2014.

  1. UBNaturally

    UBNaturally Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2014
    Messages:
    6,497
    Likes Received:
    1,017
    Gender:
    Male
    Ratings:
    +1,736
    From being a natural re-searcher, Eye tend to have to open up in every direction in order to gain a full panoramic perspective of data, content, and intent, as well as how the context is utilized and sometimes even created with certain points of views and artifacts that come with them.

    Looking at the many supposed contradictions (disregarding the numerical ones that are unmistakably contradictions), a few will come to mind for the purpose of this discussion:

    1. "Jealousy is a sin" / "God is a Jealous God"

    [​IMG]


    Now, this surely does seem contradictory... until one looks into how words were used for different instances depending on the context around it.


    Gal 5:11
    And I, brethren, if I yet preach circumcision, why do I yet suffer persecution? then is the offence of the cross ceased.

    Gal 5:12
    I would they were even cut off which trouble you.

    Gal 5:13
    For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.

    Gal 5:14
    For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

    Gal 5:15
    But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.


    Gal 5:16
    This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.


    Gal 5:17
    For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.


    Gal 5:18
    But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.


    Gal 5:19
    Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,


    Gal 5:20
    Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,


    Gal 5:21
    Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

    The term "jealously" is not actually used because it has a different manner of speak throughout the "Biblios", yet the original scribes used the same term of "zeal" which has alternative resolve depending on the context.

    Which is why "emulations" and "envy" are used in Galatians, because to be envious of another within the Nation of Yisrael, or to be desirous to be in the place (emulate) of another would bread treachery which is a sin or against the laws of Yisrael.



    Outline of Biblical Usage of the term "zeal"
    1. excitement of mind, ardour, fervour of spirit
      1. zeal, ardour in embracing, pursuing, defending anything
        1. zeal in behalf of, for a person or thing

        2. the fierceness of indignation, punitive zeal
      2. an envious and contentious rivalry, jealousy

    This (Galatians) would be #2



    The Exodus reference:

    Exo 34:14
    For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:


    Exo 34:15
    Lest thou make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land, and they go a whoring after their gods, and do sacrifice unto their gods, and one call thee, and thou eat of his sacrifice;


    Outline of Biblical Usage of the term "zeal"

    1. excitement of mind, ardour, fervour of spirit
      1. zeal, ardour in embracing, pursuing, defending anything
        1. zeal in behalf of, for a person or thing
        2. the fierceness of indignation, punitive zeal
      2. an envious and contentious rivalry, jealousy
    This (Exodus) would be #1


    From the so called "Dictionary":

    jeal·ous

    1. feeling resentment against someone because of that person's rivalry, success, or advantages (often followed by of ): He was jealous of his rich brother.

    5. solicitous or vigilant in maintaining or guarding something: The American people are jealous of their freedom.


    Eze 39:25
    Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;


    Nah 1:2
    God is jealous, and the LORD revengeth; the LORD revengeth, and is furious; the LORD will take vengeance on his adversaries, and he reserveth wrath for his enemies.


    Zec 1:14
    So the angel that communed with me said unto me, Cry thou, saying, Thus saith the LORD of hosts; I am jealous for Jerusalem and for Zion with a great jealousy.


    Zec 8:2
    Thus saith the LORD of hosts; I was jealous for Zion with great jealousy, and I was jealous for her with great fury.




    In summary, one has Galatians referring to "envy" and potential betrayal within the "Nation of Yisrael".

    And then one has Exodus referring to how "God" will defend (with great "zeal") his chosen people which were the "Nation of Yisrael" as long as they would abide by the structure of the laws.


    If this clears up the contrasting manners of writings in this particular area of the book called the "Biblios".


    Add a few of the other supposed contradictions for potential expounding.

    It's a good exercise to re-read and re-comprehend what's being read, even if we often think we understand what we already have read.

    Not trying to put scales or fur on dinosaur fossils, just an exercise to gain clarity of the literature if it be possible.

    Respect
     
  2. Angela22

    Angela22 Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2013
    Messages:
    6,583
    Likes Received:
    2,894
    Gender:
    Female
    Ratings:
    +3,317
    Uh, are you Christian?:10500: Because this really isn't the correct forum for non-believers to place/discuss what they believe to be contradictions, but for actual believers to discuss their faith.
     
  3. UBNaturally

    UBNaturally Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2014
    Messages:
    6,497
    Likes Received:
    1,017
    Gender:
    Male
    Ratings:
    +1,736

    Where is the Bible Study area?
    Kind of confused as to where I should post this.

    Destee... can you assist in placing this in the appropriate "Bible Study" area

    Thanks in advance
     
  4. Angela22

    Angela22 Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2013
    Messages:
    6,583
    Likes Received:
    2,894
    Gender:
    Female
    Ratings:
    +3,317
    You should tag her if you want her attention, like this>> Destee.

    And you should probably post in the general spirituality section, as the forum for "Bible Study", i.e. "Black Christians" is for just that, Christians.
     
  5. UBNaturally

    UBNaturally Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2014
    Messages:
    6,497
    Likes Received:
    1,017
    Gender:
    Male
    Ratings:
    +1,736
    Destee

    Aaaaaaaaah, that should do it.

    Thanks
     
  6. UBNaturally

    UBNaturally Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2014
    Messages:
    6,497
    Likes Received:
    1,017
    Gender:
    Male
    Ratings:
    +1,736
    Being that this is a "Bible Study" thread (not sure where to post it)...

    Would also be inclined to add, if one does not "READ" the Bible (KJV or earlier, none of those newer interpretations), please do not enter into dialog that one might not understand, unless having genuine desire for understanding of the stories and the literature.

    Otherwise, this is open for discussion as it would relate to common confusion that some have when reading the stories.

    Respect
     
  7. UBNaturally

    UBNaturally Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2014
    Messages:
    6,497
    Likes Received:
    1,017
    Gender:
    Male
    Ratings:
    +1,736
    Here is another commonly theorized "contradiction"...

    1 Corinthians 1:27
    God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise.

    1 Corinthians 14:33
    For God is not the author of confusion....


    My first mind did a double-take years ago when I came across this also, and then I had to relinquish what I thought it said, and see what it was saying.

    Without looking into the context of either, one can theorize the wordings to mean both the same thing or different values. But just to tickle the surface...

    Confound would bring on the innerG of "Confine knowledge" or "Limit Understanding".

    1Co 1:25
    Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

    1Co 1:26
    For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

    1Co 1:27
    But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

    Points out how "God" uses the "lesser" things of the world to confound the "great" things of the world. Similar to how "God" used "Moses" to go against the magicians of "Egypt" until they could no longer challenge him.

    1Co 1:28
    And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

    1Co 1:29
    That no flesh should glory in his presence.

    1Co 1:30
    But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

    1Co 1:31
    That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

    Essentially it means to "Amaze", "Astonish" or "Bewilder"



    Now as to the "not the author of confusion"


    1Co 14:27
    If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.

    This was dealing with translating the languages of the scattered tribes which had taken on the identities and languages of their current lands, which was also referencing the lack of understanding of the "written words" that were commanded to be copied over the generations of "Yisrael".


    1Co 14:28
    But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

    If one has none to explain, remain silent and allow "God" to reveal the understanding without breaking one's peace.

    1Co 14:29
    Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.


    1Co 14:30
    If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.


    1Co 14:31
    For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.


    1Co 14:32
    And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.


    1Co 14:33
    For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

    This is showing how to create order in a dialog about the "Commandments" and "Laws" to those that are no longer in remembrance of them, whether they have been separated or removed from the continual giving of the "Commandments" and "Laws".

    "God" is not an author of confusion or disorganization, but of order and understanding. Some would use the terminology of "precept upon precept".

    Another way of saying, "God" is not a part of 4 or more fussing or arguing about the "Commandments" and "Laws".

    The current Religious Industrial Complex is not under the "Authority of the God of Yisrael" but of another, where there is plenty of mass confusion, and almost no understanding from those that have been going for nearly over 6 decades.

    Respect
     
  8. UBNaturally

    UBNaturally Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2014
    Messages:
    6,497
    Likes Received:
    1,017
    Gender:
    Male
    Ratings:
    +1,736
    Here is another theorized "contradiction"

    Mat 19:26
    But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

    Jdg 1:19
    And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.



    • Let's look at the Matthew 19 portion to begin with

    In context, "Jesus" was in conversation with others about how they could enter into the "Kingdom", and that they would be best to give all of their possessions to those that were in need and follow him.

    Mat 19:21
    Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

    Mat 19:22
    But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

    Mat 19:23
    Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.

    Mat 19:24
    And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

    Mat 19:25
    When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?

    They were extremely "confounded" with this idea​

    In response, they inquired "How can we do this, it seems impossible".
    Basically they thought that was "CRAZY" and doubted anyone could actually accomplish such a change in their thinking to do so (giving up all their possessions).


    Mat 19:26
    But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.


    Thus "Jesus" responded: "with God all things are possible"



    • Now on to Judges 1

    First thought would be:

    Guess it wasn't possible for "God" to drive out the inhabitants of the valley

    Of course it was possible, it just didn't happen.
    References to what actually occurred in the absence of driving out the inhabitants are written as follows...

    Jdg 1:19
    And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.


    Jdg 1:20
    And they gave Hebron unto Caleb, as Moses said: and he expelled thence the three sons of Anak.

    They gave (submitted) the land to Caleb (from the lineage of Judah) and Caleb afterwards kicked the sons of Anak out of the land.

    Notice, this was a victory over the possessors of "Hebron", in which they took the land and allowed the inhabitants to stay (they didn't smite everyone).

    Why did they stay and what did they do in order to remain?

    Jdg 1:28
    And it came to pass, when Israel was strong, that they put the Canaanites to tribute, and did not utterly drive them out.

    Jdg 1:29
    Neither did Ephraim drive out the Canaanites that dwelt in Gezer; but the Canaanites dwelt in Gezer among them.

    Jdg 1:30
    Neither did Zebulun drive out the inhabitants of Kitron, nor the inhabitants of Nahalol; but the Canaanites dwelt among them, and became tributaries.

    Jdg 1:33
    Neither did Naphtali drive out the inhabitants of Bethshemesh, nor the inhabitants of Bethanath; but he dwelt among the Canaanites, the inhabitants of the land: nevertheless the inhabitants of Bethshemesh and of Bethanath became tributaries unto them.

    Jdg 1:35
    But the Amorites would dwell in mount Heres in Aijalon, and in Shaalbim: yet the hand of the house of Joseph prevailed, so that they became tributaries.

    The men of "Israel" prevailed and used the inhabitants of the land as servants and "tax payers" as they were to make tribute to "Israel".

    So to sum it up, it was possible for "Israel" to overcome many and claim the lands, even using the inhabitants of the lands as forced laborers. These were "men" doing this by the way, not "God".

    As it was also possible for "God" to change the mind of a person to think without the need of possessions for a life of prosperity.


    If this clears up the theorized contradictions.


    Respect
     
  9. UBNaturally

    UBNaturally Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2014
    Messages:
    6,497
    Likes Received:
    1,017
    Gender:
    Male
    Ratings:
    +1,736
    Yet another supposed "contradiction" that un-read people may use...

    Notice, some of these "SO CALLED CHRISTIANS" probably think this thread is about showing and proving the many contradictions in the "Biblios".

    They haven't read this thread either, which is why I try to deal with "Bible Scholars", and not too many "SO CALLED CHRISTIANS".



    Deuteronomy 24:16
    The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

    Then go further in the Old Testament to Isaiah...

    Isaiah 14:21
    Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.




    Starting with Deuteronomy 24...


    These were laws that were given to the "Israelites" and how each should deal with another "Israelite"... nothing more nothing less. All of Deuteronomy are essential laws for "Israel" and guidance on how to enforce these laws.

    So when is says "the fathers shall not be put to death for the children" or "the children be put to death for the fathers", it is constructing a premise that each person within the tribes of "Israel" would have to repent or pay for the laws they the broke or did not abide by, and no other could be offered up to pay for them.

    Repentance was an individual statute.


    Now as for Isaiah 14...

    Preparing slaughter for his (The Enemy's) children for the iniquity (Continual Criminality) of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.

    "Israel" was in many battles in which they retaliated and eliminated their enemies as well as their sons that fought with them. Taking hold and possession of the lands and smiting all other young men at times so they would not "Rise" up again to repossess the lands.

    • In summation, Deuteronomy is dealing with contract(s) and laws between the men of "Israel"(Friends/Kindred) and not to do harm to thy brethren within "Israel".

    • Isaiah is dealing with "Enemies"


    I know there are plenty so called "contradictions" out and about, so this will be an arduous task of tackling each one, but being that I may be the only one attempting to bring clarity to something that those do not care for in this manner, we continue on with the re-search and maintain inspiration that it will benefit some, even so the "heathens".

    Respect
     
  10. UBNaturally

    UBNaturally Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2014
    Messages:
    6,497
    Likes Received:
    1,017
    Gender:
    Male
    Ratings:
    +1,736
    Some more to chew on...

    Found this gem on Destee.com and thought it would be a good source of exercise.
    _____________________________________

    We now move on to the lowest notch of arithmetic ability: that of counting. We will see that even in this, the Bible contains errors!

    I Chronicles 3:22
    The sons of Shemaiah: Huttush, Igal, Bariah, Neriah, and Shaphat, six.


    Note that there were five sons listed, yet the Chronicler counted six! [We find similar errors in I Chronicles 25:3, where five names were also given and again the chronicler counted six. (One begins to wonder if this is a learning disorder of the chronicler) Again in I Chronicles 3: 19-20 where eight names were given and he counted five! Chronicles is not the only author who can't count, we see the same problem in the book of Joshua:

    Joshua 15:33-36

    And in the lowland, Eshtaol, Zorah, Ashnah, Zanoah, Engannim, Tappuah, Enam, Jarmuth, Adullam, Socoh, Azekah, Shaaraim, Adithaim, Gederah, Gederothaim: fourteen cities with their villages.

    Anyone who can count will see that there are fifteen cities listed above, not fourteen. Again in Joshua 15:21-32 there were thirty-six cities actually listed but the author only counted twenty-nine! Also in Joshua 19:2-6 we have fourteen cities listed but the author said there was only thirteen.


    How does the math become reconciled in these cases???


    These were surely a doosey!

    But let's have at it, shall we?


    1Ch 3:21
    The sons of Hananiah were Pelatiah and Jeshaiah, the sons of Rephaiah, the sons of Arnan, the sons of Obadiah, and the sons of Shechaniah.


    1Ch 3:22
    The son of Shechaniah was Shemaiah. The sons of Shemaiah were Hattush, Igal, Bariah, Neariah, and Shaphat—six in all.


    Note: "The sons of Shechaniah"

    This will be later be thought of the lineage as it begins with the top and goes down

    Shechaniah; Father

    1. Shemaiah; Son
    2. Hattush, 3. Igal, 4. Bariah, 5. Neariah, 6. Shaphat; Grandsons


    Shechaniah had "six in all", as this number is referring to the children (sons) of Shechaniah


    _______________________________________

    On to the next one....


    Jos 15:20
    This was the inheritance of the tribe of the children of Judah according to their families:

    Jos 15:21
    The cities at the limits of the tribe of the children of Judah, toward the border of Edom in the South, were Kabzeel, Eder, Jagur,

    Jos 15:22
    Kinah, Dimonah, Adadah,

    Jos 15:23
    Kedesh, Hazor, Ithnan,

    Jos 15:24
    Ziph, Telem, Bealoth,

    Jos 15:25
    Hazor, Hadattah, Kerioth, Hezron (which is Hazor),

    Jos 15:26
    Amam, Shema, Moladah,

    Jos 15:27
    Hazar Gaddah, Heshmon, Beth Pelet,

    Jos 15:28
    Hazar Shual, Beersheba, Bizjothjah,

    Jos 15:29
    Baalah, Ijim, Ezem,

    Jos 15:30
    Eltolad, Chesil, Hormah,

    Jos 15:31
    Ziklag, Madmannah, Sansannah,

    Jos 15:32
    Lebaoth, Shilhim, Ain, and Rimmon: all the cities are twenty-nine, with their villages.

    Let's do the math on this one and see what we have:

    This was the inheritance of the tribe of the children of Judah according to their families:

    The cities at the limits of the tribe of the children of Judah, toward the border of Edom in the South, were:

    1. Kabzeel
    2. Eder
    3. Jagur
    4. Kinah
    5. Dimonah
    6. Adadah
    7. Kedesh
    8. Hazor
    9. Ithnan
    10. Ziph
    11. Telem
    12. Bealoth
    13. Hazor
    14. Hadattah
    15. Kerioth
    16. Hezron (which is Hazor)
    17. Amam
    18. Shema
    19. Moladah
    20. Hazar Gaddah
    21. Heshmon
    22. Beth Pelet
    23. Hazar Shual
    24. Beersheba
    25. Bizjothjah
    26. Baalah
    27. Ijim
    28. Ezem
    29. Eltolad
    30. Chesil
    31. Hormah
    32. Ziklag
    33. Madmannah
    34. Sansannah
    35. Lebaoth
    36. Shilhim
    37. Ain
    38. Rimmon

    (Actually there were 38 named, not 36)


    .....all the cities are twenty-nine, with their villages.

    • So either someone miscounted or someone misread??

    Now I can see having a minor error with the count being off by 1, maybe even 2... but to be off by 9?

    What we have here is a simple case of "overlook", and how many readers don't really interpret the contextual matter that words around other words create.

    So in summation "cities and villages" are named, where as only the "cities" are counted as the "ALL CITIES" with their villages.

    Either someone just didn't care to count the cities and was seriously lazy and erroneous, or the added mention of "with their villages", is similar to saying:

    "That shirt will be a price of $20 plus tax" ... and someone pulls out a $20 bill to pay for it.


    Respect
     
Loading...