Black Spirituality Religion : Bashing religion is easy, but Creating Black Unity is hard

[Gorilla]

Look. If you know anything about religion, you know that each is to be taken on its own. Do not blame Islam for what Christianity has done. Do not blame Hindsuim for what Buddhism has done. Is that so hard to see?

Of course, I know most people see Islam as just one of the Three Great Monotheistic Religions. But, Islam is far, far more Monotheistic than Christianity or Judaism. Most people think that Islam is the last religions of the Three to come down. Actually, the opposite is true. Islam was the first.

Look at it this way. Muhammad (Sal-lal Alayhi wa Salam) was a Muslm before he received Revelation of Quran. So, we know that the principles that define Islam already existed long before Muhammad was even born. Quran Speaks specifically about many events that occured prior to Muhammad to define Islam.

We know, for example, that Muhammad was praying when he received the first Revelation. He was not a Christian. He was not a Jew. But, he was a Monotheist and a Muslim. How did he become a Muslim in a place where paganism and ignorance was the order of the day? His pagan relatives abandoned him when he was only six years old. So, an African slave girl adopted him and taught Islam to him. Most people try to play down the significance of these facts. But, we as Africans must be clear about these facts in order to correctly understand our history.

She was not not merely his wet nurse. She was his adopted mother. Understanding this correctly is crucial. And the form of Islam taught to Muhammad prior to Revleation, where did it come from? It came from Africa through an African slave girl. I see people talk about KMT and other traditional African cultures without even realizing that it is Islam. Of course, mnay African cultures have been corrupted against Monotheism. But, Monotheism originates in Africa nonetheless.

The essential part of Quran on tis subject is Ayat 5:5 in which GOD Chooses Islam for us. Thus, Quran essentially says that Islam was already there. The purpose of Quran was merely to clarify things and make a Final Statement. But, it did not change Islam in the least bit.

You missed the point. To take a position on a certain matter that differs from someone else's and claim it to be true is an inherently critical stance when compared to other stances. The stance the thread is talking about is usually one that takes all religions (though they differ in levels of harm and absurdity -- but there's plenty to criticize and blame) and makes them a superset for criticism. In your example, Hinduism and Buddhism are responsible for their own crimes -- religion but can be blame itself as the root cause of both of them. The problem is that people think religion shouldn't be criticized, which is just silly.

 

[Omowale Jabali]

I fully agree. But, what most non-Muslims are not aware of is that this is exactly what has happened since Malcolm: internationalize the Struggle on he basis of Human Rights as opposed to Civil Rights. Let me try to explain.

Yesterday, I indicated that Jabril Al-Amin has continued some the work started by Malcolm. Thus, he wrote Revolution by the Book. In concrete terms, this has come to manisfest itself in close and intimate ties between African Muslims in the USA and in Africa. Also, we have much, much closer to our brothers and sisters in Asia as a result of all this.

For example, each year during Ramadan, the sucessors to Malcolm have Islamic scholars and teachers from Africa tour the Afrian Community in the USA. Similarly, Malcolm's Hajj was merely the first. Many, many Africans from the USA perform Hajj each year. And, many of these take the opportunity to travel further into Arabia and Africa. But, most significantly many enjoy extended stays in Arabia and a large number establish permanent residencies and citizenship all across Arabia and Africa. This is just part of what it means to be a Muslim as a result of Malcolm's work.

Clearly this is not secularism. This is just a small figment of what Islam is all about. But, my main point is Islam provides a foundation upon which Muslims can work with Christians to acheive common objectives. I think this is what OAAU was about. Interestingly enough, I do not know if the organization still exists. But, I do know that Malcolm's Islam still exists. I am not an adherent. But, I maintain a constant contact with them. Most are my firends.

We must understand that Malcolm was greatly influenced by Ben Bella, Abdel-Nasser, Kwame Nkrumah, Patrice Lumuma and Seku Toure, etc. Notice the pattern: all are Muslims except Lumumba and possibly Nkrumah although Nkrumah can be considered a Muslim. This is where I got on the right track: Nkrumah. Although I have never been directly a member of Malcolm's groups, his work is what has inspired me to Islam, along with the works of the others mentioned, plus that of Yasser Arafat. Thus, I have gone much deeper into the overall Muslim Community. But, as I said: this has brought me closer to Malcolm.

You are confusing what the OAAU was about, and what the Muslim Mosque Inc was about. They were related but with two distinct strategies. Im not going around with you or anyone else on this. If you or others want to put religion first instead of Pan-Africanism which is inclusive of ALL Africans peace be with you. Just dont try to lecture someone who was raised on brother malcolms teaching. My family paid the price when we left the Nation and my house was firebombed. I know full-well the change in organizing strategy.

 

[Omowale Jabali]

You are confusing what the OAAU was about, and what the Muslim Mosque Inc was about. They were related but with two distinct strategies. Im not going around with you or anyone else on this. If you or others want to put religion first instead of Pan-Africanism which is inclusive of ALL Africans peace be with you. Just dont try to lecture someone who was raised on brother malcolms teaching. My family paid the price when we left the Nation and my house was firebombed. I know full-well the change in organizing strategy.

"When you go to a church and you see the pastor of that church with a philosophy and a program that's designed to bring black people together and elevate black people, join that church! If you see where the NAACP is preaching and practising that which is designed to make black nationalism materialize, join the NAACP. Join any kind of organization--civic, religious, fraternal, political or otherwise--that's based on lifting... the black man up and making him master of his own community."

 

[abdurratln]

You missed the point. To take a position on a certain matter that differs from someone else's and claim it to be true is an inherently critical stance when compared to other stances. The stance the thread is talking about is usually one that takes all religions (though they differ in levels of harm and absurdity -- but there's plenty to criticize and blame) and makes them a superset for criticism. In your example, Hinduism and Buddhism are responsible for their own crimes -- religion but can be blame itself as the root cause of both of them. The problem is that people think religion shouldn't be criticized, which is just silly.

Well, it seems to me that we have a language problem. What you are saying is Greek to me. I am trying to speak to you in an African langugae, not a European one.

Let's start by defining some words. Religion is Islam. Anti-religion is a lot of things including theism and atheism.

So, look at it this way: GOD Created and Defined religion which is Islam. But, evil came to cause mankind to fall from GOD's Grace and Mercy. That is anti-religion. One form it takes is paganism. Another is the occult (cults) in which some people go to the extent of actually worshipping the devil. One way they do this is by reading the Bible backwards.

Who does that sort of thing? Well, since you appear to be such an expert, I am sure that you have been inside at least one "church". Right? What did they talk about? I bet you ten bucks that they talked about the last parts of Bible, namely the Pauline Gospels. If they mentioned the prophesies at all, it was only briefly to confuse people and make them think they are legit. But, their main doctrines are based on that Jew who spoke Latin and probably Greek.

Do you understand? Probably not. So, let me...Naw I will not say let me dumb this down.

Christianity as we know it is not religion, dude. You been tricked. Christianity as we know it in the west is anti-religion. This is because "saint Paul" corrupted it with paganism to produce the trinity which is half way between Monotheism and polytheism: trinitism. If you think I am lying, and you probably do think so, google trinity and get back to me.

 

[abdurratln]

You are confusing what the OAAU was about, and what the Muslim Mosque Inc was about.

No. I said virtually nothing about what they were about. I talked mainly about what Malcolm's religion was about.

They were related but with two distinct strategies.

No. I disagree. I base my disagreement n my intimate knowledge of Islam. This includes my specific and ntimate research and investigation of Malcolm's legacy in Islam.

One reason that this is so hard to see, I think, is that it is not unique to Malcolm. Many Muslims are Salafis. Al-Shabab in Somalia, for example, are said to be Salafis. What I find interesting is the CIA and FBI do not seem to get the point. While they make war against Salafis in Africa, they make war against non-Salafis in the USA. They just dumb, I think.

Im not going around with you or anyone else on this. If you or others want to put religion first instead of Pan-Africanism which is inclusive of ALL Africans peace be with you. Just dont try to lecture someone who was raised on brother malcolms teaching. My family paid the price when we left the Nation and my house was firebombed. I know full-well the change in organizing strategy.

Then, I assume that you have some knowledge of Quran. Ayat 2:256 is thusly:

[2:256] There shall be no compulsion in religion: the right way is now distinct from the wrong way. Anyone who denounces the devil and believes in GOD has grasped the strongest bond; one that never breaks. GOD is Hearer, Omniscient. (http://www.submission.org/suras/sura2.html#256)

To the extent that this is the oldest such statement in history, it is safe to conclude that this is the basis for Freedom of Religion. Right? And, it is the basis for OAAU. And, this is Islam, not secularism.