Black Spirituality Religion : (Author edit due to new views)

Peace, brother frankster!

Thanks for answering my brother...

I read ("read" that rhymes with "red") you loud and clear...but, one might ask this you might agree:

"Is characterizing not being a Christian as 'lawlessness, iniquity, darkness, and devilishness' a hate-teaching in and of itself?"

How would you answer that question, my beloved brother?

(And I just want to say that I have NOTHING against my Christian brothers & sisters who believe in the Bible.)

Not Necessarily but it could be so construed.
To fundamentalist and Literalist Christians yes it is Hate speech
Lawlessness, iniquity, darkness and devilishness in a Christian Context carries with it Christian moral and ethics.

Lets take two examples - we not talking individual level but Nation/State level
In some Muslim countries it is legal, moral and ethical to stone to death adulteries.....I do not know of any christian country that does such things, not saying they are not out there - just that I do not know of any
In some Christian countries abortion is legal ethical and moral.....I do not know of any Islamic state that allows such things, not saying that they are not out there -just that I do not know of any

That was to demonstrate that different culture and religions give differing meanings to words such as lawlessness etc
What it really means is that we do not share the same Values, it really does not equate to hate, but it could easily be made to
 
As Salaam Alaikum! !!!!!!!!!!!

A Good Muslim is a good Christian and a good Christian is a good Muslim. That's what I believe.

True......at the Root
Fairness, Kindness and Love are universal, these are the foundation on which most Ethics and Morals or formed.
All Cultures have mores which overtime influences the Morals and Ethics of Religious teachings
It is these Cultural Mores that are responsible for many of the differences in and between Religions
At Root they are all based on - LOVE
 
Well why would the values of a non-Christian have to be characterized by the Christian Holy Book as, "iniquity," "lawlessness," "darkness," and "devilishness?" Why didn't it just say "different," if it only meant different?

I agree my brother, this could very easily be characterized as "hate speech."

Anything that is outside of the bounds of an individuals value system (religion) is usually seen in an US versus THEM perspective.
The US versus THEM keeps the faithful loyal and passionate by creating an IN group wherein one is safe and secure
Indifference does not win or keep many converts, in other words indifference breeds apathy.

To me stoning a man or woman to death because he or she had sex outside of marriage is devilish, lawless and dark.....behavior
So is having an abortion iniquitous, dark and devilish.....behavior.
 
I see, my brother...

...and actually, about Islam the punishment for adultery in Islam is not death. These days alot of lies are being taught about Muslims/Islam...but Surah 24:2 of the Qur'an gives the punishment for adultery in Islam, as:

"The adulteress and the adulterer, flog each of them (with) a hundred stripes, and let not pity for them detain you from obedience to Allah, if you believe in Allah and the Last Day, and let a party of believers witness their chastisement."

I'm not Muslim though, I have just studied Islam.

Have a good night, brother!
Some may say the bible says nothing against abortion either! as the word abortion is not mention in it.

I have not studied Islam but is stoning to death adulterers in the Hadith?
Do Muslims obey and or venerate the Hadith as Sacred and Holy book for teachings and instructions to be followed and obey?



Surah An-Nisaa 4:15-16
وَالّٰتِىۡ يَاۡتِيۡنَ الۡفَاحِشَةَ مِنۡ نِّسَآٮِٕكُمۡ فَاسۡتَشۡهِدُوۡا عَلَيۡهِنَّ اَرۡبَعَةً مِّنۡكُمۡ ۚ فَاِنۡ شَهِدُوۡا فَاَمۡسِكُوۡهُنَّ فِى الۡبُيُوۡتِ حَتّٰى يَتَوَفّٰٮهُنَّ الۡمَوۡتُ اَوۡ يَجۡعَلَ اللّٰهُ لَهُنَّ سَبِيۡلًا‏
(4:15) As for those of your women who are guilty of immoral conduct, call upon four from amongst you to bear witness against them. And if four men do bear witness, confine those women to their houses until either death takes them away or Allah opens some way for them.

وَالَّذٰنِ يَاۡتِيٰنِهَا مِنۡكُمۡ فَاٰذُوۡهُمَا ۚ فَاِنۡ تَابَا وَاَصۡلَحَا فَاَعۡرِضُوۡا عَنۡهُمَا ؕ اِنَّ اللّٰهَ كَانَ تَوَّابًا رَّحِيۡمًا‏
(4:16) Punish both of those among you who are guilty of this sin, then if they repent and mend their ways, leave them alone. For Allah is always ready to accept repentance. He is All-Compassionate.

Based on the Surahs above would I be accurate in saying the following...
The Quran offers then life imprisonment, (which is effectively a death sentence) with the possibility of parole or death by stoning if such a directive is reach.
 
Well, from my studies of Islam, I have learned that different Muslims believe different things, but they all believe that the Qur'an is the Word of God.

The Muslim scholar Maulana Muhammad Ali translates Surah 4:15-16 as:

"(15)And as for those of your women who are guilty of an indecency, call to witness against them four (wit-
nesses) from among you; so if they bear witness, confine them to the houses until death takes them away
or Allah opens a way for them.a (16)And as for the two of you who are guilty of it, give them both a slight punishment; then if they repent and amend, turn aside from them.a Surely Allah is ever Oft-returning (to
mercy), the Merciful"

And here are his footnotes to the translation:

1 5a. Al-fåƒishah signifies anything exceeding the bounds of rectitude (gross, immodest, lewd, obscene) (Mgh, LL). See further 19c, where it is shown that fåƒishah includes hatred and desertion, refractoriness, etc. Though the word is used sometimes as meaning fornication , the context shows that here it is used to signify immoral conduct short of fornication, for the punishment of fornication is given in 24:2. The words of the verse that follows, referring to a similar immoral act with the indefinite nature of punishment, support this conclusion, for punishment in the case of an act short of fornication would vary with the nature of the crime. Thus women guilty of immoral conduct are curtailed of their liberty. If they mend their ways, or being unmarried they get married, a way is opened for them by Allah, and they regain their liberty; if they do not, the curtailment should be extended till they die. There is no proof for Palmer’s assertion that “women taken in adultery or fornication were, at the beginning of Islam, literally immured”.


16a. The crime spoken of in this verse is the same as that in the previous verse. The committers are two, and though the masculine gender is used, it does not imply that they are both necessarily males. Slight punishment is explained by Qatådah as meaning reproving with the tongue (AH). Islam requires the utmost modesty in sexual relations.

No Sir, the Qur'an does give a death sentence for adultery under any circumstance.

I notice you ignored my question regarding the Hadith?
Plus I said the Quran gave then life imprisonment and the in brackets I added (which is effectively a death sentence) which is my reading of the Sura
 

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