Isaiah said:Brother Sam, Religion is a way of life, not just about spiritual matters... One does not get spiritual at an "appropriate" time, and then the rest of the time, they are the worst sort of human being... Isn't that our problem with Christianity and Islam??? Billie Holday said, she go to church on Sunday, and cabaret all day monday... There's no separation between Church and state if one is for real about their religion...
I agree, but you need to have an understanding of the religion in question, in order to understand how it works for the individual and/or group.
ATR's simply do not work in the same fashion that Christianity and Islam do. The focus is totally different.
Broher Sam, you have to do more research than what you gave me... For example, you say that the Roman Catholic Churches make up large percentages of religious adherents in Latin American, but you do not allow for the fact that the ATR's in ALL of these countries were syncretized so long ago, that they are near indistinguishable...
I understood this from the onset. However, We were speaking about what these nations are "run by", not what they actually are.
These nation's leaders and intelligentsia do not present the Orishas as their state belief, they present the Saints. Saint Mary and such. It's the prevailing mindset that rules in this world, not the quantifiable numbers.
If that were not the case, then the White man would not be in control at this very moment.
Every Orisha in Cuba and Brazil has a catholic saint, becaues the Africans in Latin, South, and Central America had to disguise the religion they were practicing... Go to these countires, and you will find an Orisha altar/Shrine in every home - including the homes of so-called White folks in these countries... Just as the music of Africa is so prevalent in these societies, so is the very religion out which the music comes... Remember, my beautiful brother, Latin American nations have been engaged in "Emblanquemiento", or the "whitening" of things African and indigenous for forever... It is, therefore, very misleading to say that Christianity runs these countries... I will present where I found tha Candomble and Vodun are the national religions of Brazil and Ayti... BTW, KREYOL is the national language of Haiti, as well... Be back with that info soon...
Again, I know this........I've been to some of these places that you mention myself, so I do know first hand.
However, there is still alot of shame that comes with believing in an ATR for most of these people.
In Haiti, for example, the government prior to their independence, waged an on-going campaign against the Island's indigenous beliefs. Schools, media etc were used to "educate" the people about their "ignorance".
It happens all the time--it's even happening in Africa right now.
While the White man calls the DOGON "savages", they simultaneously strive to take and covet from them the very thing that makes them "savage" in their eyes.
This is nothing new.
Wherever African Latin Americans are in this hemisphere, you will find it's all the same, with the African culture predominating and being DENIED as the the cultural matrix of that country... That is why you cannot present the CIA factbook as FACTS...
I knew that it was a distorted view when I posted it, and that was my reason for posting it to begin with.
This is how they wish to see the world, and this is how the are continually trying to convince us to see it.
The fact is, that Christianity is the state religion for all the countries you named. SANTERIA is not, YORUBA is not, and VODUN is not.
YORUBA is not even the state religion in the very country that it was originally created, so what does that say?
Please know, that I'm not saying that ATR's do not exsist in these countries, or even that they are not prevelant, because they truly are.
What I'm only saying, is that these nations are not run by them.
The so-called catholic(White) Latin Americans do not like their nations being seen as culturally African by outsiders...
Precisely my point as well.
From my vantage point, ATR's will gain a greater foothold in our communities based on their works...
That is alot easier said than done.
I don't believe people reject an ATR based on some natural hatred, or even brainwashing...
I most vehemently disagree......I have heard ignorant Black folk say stuff like "ya'll worship the DEVIL"........."Ya'll gonna burn in hell"........"What ya'll need, is to get washed by the Blood of Jesus".
Ignorance, hatred, and even brainwashing is very prevalent amongst our people.
Haven't you read some of the threads on here? We have folks making all sorts of ignorant remarks about ATR's (something that they didn't even know about till they came here), in "defense" of their Biblical beliefs.
We have become a very backward, unlearnt and superstitious people.
If that were the case the Nation Of Islam would never have become the force it became - and among African American southerners who made up the vast majority of muslims in the 1950's and '60's...(smile!)
This is the thing that most people overlook; Had the NOI come in the form of some Camel-Riding, Turban-Wearing, Tribal-Language Speaking Negroes, then it never would have gotten off the ground.
T.H.E.M. sought to present the image of the Black man as a clean, well-dressed, well mannered, organized, disciplined human being.
Had he not done this, the NOI would never have gotten as far as it did.
Look at how other Muslim groups are treated--by both non-Muslim Blacks and
Whites alike.......
I've heard both groups make fun of the Muslim men, for wearing "dresses" (a Jalabiya is not a dress).
Do you honestly think that the White man in the 50's and 60's would respect a Black man in a "dress", talking about "The White man is the Devil"?
The Honorable Elijah Muhammad was, himself, a southerner, and were it not for him, he organization would have died on the vine...
Yes, he was a Southerner, who moved to a Big City.
Just about all of our "Saviors" did the very same thing.
ELIJAH = from Georgia, moved to Detroit
MALCOLM = From Arkansas, moved to NY
NOBLE DREW ALI = From South Carolina, moved to New Jersey.
CLARENCE 13X = From South Carolina, moved to NY
Even the Leader of the AUSAR AUSET SOCIETY, RA UN NEFER AMEN came from Africa, and sought to set up the Society in Brooklyn.
This is always the trend.
Our leaders have always recognized that it will take diversity to help save our people. That is something that the South is sorely lacking, amongst other much needed resources.
Additonally, I posted some stuff in the culture forum about African villages which practice ATR in South Carolina, and Virginia...
ATR's truly do not thrive in the South; I know, because I am living in the South currently, and I practice several facets of ATR's.
As our Brother SEK said, it's effortless to go to Fulton Mall and set up shop with your African wares.......Do you have any idea how hard it is to get a kiosk at the local flea-market, for the Sisters to sell their goods fresh from the Motherland?
Carnival (an Afro-Caribbean holiday/festival) comes to NY every single year......Whenever we get together in groups of more than 50 for an extended period of time down here, all of a sudden, here come the Bible Thumpers.
Add to that, that the Republic of New Afrika was Mississippi Attorney Chokwe Lumumba's brainchild, I would not put it past African southerners to take to the traditons of Afrika, particularly the elders(smile!)
I think the RNA is a very Noble idea, and I'll support it whenever I can. However, I'm just not convinced that there are the resources available in the South to carry out this gargantuan task. Not to mention, the outstanding opposition towards accomplishing it.
However, I want my people to succeed, so I'm in for supporting it.
PEACE