Black Spirituality Religion : AUSAR AUSET SOCIETY - WHAT DOES IT DO THAT CHRISTIANITY OR ISLAM DOES NOT???

Discussion in 'Black Spirituality / Religion - General Discussion' started by Isaiah, May 2, 2006.

  1. Isaiah

    Isaiah Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I have purposely posed this question in the OPEN FORUM because it is not, per se, a religion/spirituality doctrine issue, but one which seeks to expose to us all what it is that makes this orgainzation the choice of so many of our brothers and sisters here at Destee... I am seeking to find out why one would choose this religious organization over another, and have a discussion on it...

    Now, let me put my full deck of cards on the table... Firstly, I am no fan of organized religion, though a staunch believer in the Universal Power and Oneness of the Universe... I believe that ONENESS has made us all GODS in our own right, as IT thinks and acts through us. I do not believe in the NEED to be connected in GOD through institutions, though I believe those institutions can, and sometimes DO, serve a great purpose... If I do admit to a preference for African Traditional Religions, it is because they seem to perpetuate the CULTURE of Africa and Africans, and not because I am so impressed what what they do for our communities, or represent on a spiritual level... What I must have on a spiritual level is the ONENESS(BALANCE, some might call it)that ATR's do not seem to bring to the table...

    In fact, I think Christianity actually brings more BALANCE to the table("faith without works is DEAD") than ATR's, because I can SEE where SOME Christian organizations BUILD more than people's hopes... And certainily, ISLAM builds more for our communities economically and Academically than either the ATR's or Christianity combined - or, at least, I am, again, able to SEE what they have done, and are doing...

    Here, in Bedford Stuyvesant, that most populous Black Community in the continental United States, I can SEE what these African American and Continental African Muslims have built along Fulton Street, an avenue that stretches into our downtown area here... Their mosque is the largest in the city of Brooklyn, and their businesses have crept along that long avenue, and are encroaching, now, on the downtown area... They are in essence, a powerful presence in the economic resurgence of this area, and are making a downpayment on what is sure to be an economic goldmine for the future... Meanwhile, Ausar Auset Community USED to have a massive school building just blocks away, in a time when nothing was happening out here, and now they are no where to be found...

    I am saying this all not to be longwinded, but to reinforce my earlier point that there must be some balance... It cannot all be about spirituality and intellectuality, but a practical application and inspiration found in all our preaching, praying, and meditation... If it's about THAT, then we got Christianity, and the shameless huckstering we rail against, just cloaked in African garb and language... So, shortstorylong, I am interested in knowing from the followers of these ATR's, just WHAT they and you are doing in pragmatic terms, to make our communities a better place econimcally and educationally??? Again, I would like for us to have an open and honest discussion NOT about your religion, but how that religion is teaching you to practically apply what you have learned so that YOU can be of benefit to our communities...




    Peace!
    Isaiah
     
  2. jamesfrmphilly

    jamesfrmphilly going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    it gives me knowledge of self that allows me to overstand what my environment is for real.
    that makes me more comfortable and serene in my self.
    it makes me feel better about my people.
    lastly, it make me sexy as all get out.........
     
  3. MississippiRed

    MississippiRed Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    But couldn't simple introspection give you knowledge of self......and what does overstand mean and dun'nt a lot of religions, meditation thangs and other stuff make folk more comfortable in their environment and serene....I'm not getting into the sexy stuff James I know the ladies here luv u from can to can't ..........
    and what does overstand mean....???

    I think any religion or society or whatever is all the same folks put down Christianity but it does the same as Islam, and ATRs and whatever else folk come with.....

    Everybody talks bout what they KNOW...don't know nutin.......they choose to believe and have faith......Knowing is this.......I know my right foot hurt when I wear my Kenneth cole laceups.......I know my youngest son is sneaky as hell just like his Daddy, I know my gyp whisky is a cannibal.....I know I love Powers & Son Irish Whisky..........I know one day I'm gon die what I don't know is anything after that..................folk say this and that but to me all them religious systems are the same.......some just put in more work in the community than others.......just make yo choice believe what you will and go with it......cuz to me regardless of what folk say we won't KNOW nutin til we on the other side of the road...

    Where I'm from though Isaiah ....the church (Christian of course) works hard to uplift the Black community and the hood....I can't speak for nobody else but in my part of the country ain't no Muslims or ATRs and if it is they ain't doing nothing in the communities where we push that drug and shoot like it's a hobby....they probably do more in the cities I don't know jes speakin on what I know.......even the rootworkers don't do nothin for them young boys and gals out there struglin.........anyway Isaiah my folk as always you come with the hard questions bruh.....you still my hero Brother........


    MississippiRed
    I like old schools, dogs, whisky, strip clubs, gettin BUCK and meetin young tender fine ones...oh I also like to fight whenever I can.....
    did I say I like strip jurnts and young fine soft ones......oh and guns and knives......and huntin and fishin.......and fogdighting...... yuh...
    yessuh.....yall hab a goodun yahurd.....
     
  4. jamesfrmphilly

    jamesfrmphilly going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    put some gas inya car and start drivin and eventually you would get to new york.
    but if you had a MAP you would get there a lot faster.
    the metu neter is the map.

    the metu neter will show you what is after that.

    that is because they are all rooted in Abraham.
    the metu neter is rooted in khemit.

    if you think non linear, the other side of the road is not so far. i been there and back now.
     
  5. MississippiRed

    MississippiRed Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Good points Brother James Thank you for the insight Bruh.....


    MississippiRed
     
  6. SAMURAI36

    SAMURAI36 Banned MEMBER

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    PEACE TO RED, ISAIAH, ET AL:

    The bulk of your very vaild and relevant questions had been discussed in this thread:

    http://www.destee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41352&page=3

    However, there are some points that I felt were worthy of elaboration:

    All of what you say is very true. In the South, Islam and ATR's are very scarce (which is one of my reasons for not liking the South all that much; the lack of diversity). Even with the exceptions of the "root-workers" that you speak of (they are technically ATR's as well, but with a specific difference).

    ATR's (African Traditional Religions) are usually manifested in densely populated areas.

    It's understandable that you would not have heard of, or be familiar with IFA or VODUN or METU NETER, if your region does not consist of the immigrants of African tribes that practice these systems, and spread them onto our (AA) communities.

    And I'm not speaking of a few Africans here and there either......Not the few that might happen to go to the local university.

    I'm talking about city blocks, consisting of mostly African families, African stores and shops, temples, etc. This is something that ISAIAH, the Brother Elder as well as myself can no doubt attest to.

    Please don't take this as offensive, but the South is very homogenous culturally and socially. As a result, when these Groups (ATR's) do come to the area, there is very little support from a community that has never been exposed to it in the first place. It's a viscious cycle.

    I can recally several occasions, where we had tried to set up festivals in this area where I live, and it got shot down on one form or another. It's usually cool when you want to do some remedial "Black Pride" stuff, but when it goes into African esoteric spirituality, the Christians (and make no mistake, The South is run by Christianity) intervene and put the brakes on it. It never fails.

    People like myself usually flourish in the North, or in larger metropolitan areas, where one MUST adapt to the diversity, or die.

    To the point regarding what Christianity does.......Can you give some precise examples of what you feel it does?

    If the youth is pushing product on the streets, and gunning each other down, what has the Church does to prevent this? Afterall, the Church as an institution has been around far longer in this society, than any ATR.

    And therein lies the difference: As the Brother Elder alluded, a person's social or otherwise external predicament does not change, until or unless their internal Selves change. This is what ATR's show us.

    The majority of the crime and sin in the world, is committed by people who claim to be Christian, or at least come from a Christian background.

    One cannot separate the institution from the doctrine that the institution claims to teach. And that's why most ATR's refuse to institutionalize the teachings; that's why you'll never see temples on every corner, or why you'll never see us knocking on doors handing out pamphlets.

    That methodology goes against the very foundation of Esoteric Spirituality, which is always the goal.

    For a greater understanding of this, I would suggest that you read METU NETER itself. But in the meantime, check out the thread that I linked above.

    PEACE
     
  7. Keita Kenyatta

    Keita Kenyatta going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    To further expond on what the Brother James was saying, we need to look at the issues and foundation of Christianity and Islam. What effect do these religions have on us personally and collectivly?

    1. They keep us out of balance Spiritually because they "keep the individual and the collective of our people "externalized".

    2. They keep us out of balance individually and collectivly because they are "male dominated" in terms of doctrine and in their structure.

    3. They do not "spiritually" develop anyone, but instead leaves us with codes of behaviour and thought processes which serve as "controlling mechanisms for the dominate society at large."

    4. They denegrate the woman and regard her as unequal...and in the words of John H. Clark;"any civilization or doctrine that supresses or subordinates the other half of their existence (the woman) can not consider itself a civilized people or society.

    5. They both produce mind sets that "everyone practicing them are brothers or sisters in Jesus or Allah", when clearly history and our present reality world wide reveals this to be a living contradiction"...therefpre producing a subconscious paradox in us that cripples our vision of truth as it was and is.

    6.They are warped by stolen concepts that are not based in reality as given to us.

    7.They are anti African in terms of us empowering ourselves, culturally reconnecting, and in reclaiming practices or principles that best serve our interest.

    8. I expect them to be able to build and establish what the Ausar Auset society can not do as of yet. Look at the long legacy of their existence at the domination and destruction of ours. Look at the money that we in our blindness put into them every week, thereby reinforcing what our enemy established to replicate its survival and as such, its power.

    9. Build the schools, build the businesses, build what you please, for what is important is not what you build but what "the foundation is" and what outcome that foundation will produce to keep those in power in place.

    10.This is the reality...and one day we will ALL SEE IT.

    11. The spiritual development base of the Ausar Auset can be traced back over 6,000 years B.C. from our ancestors...long before a Hebrew or Arab ever existed and before a whiteman ever left the mountains. Even the ATR system of the Yoruba can be traced back to ancient Kemet...and of course Kemet back to Anu, thereby revealing a system from our root down to today.

    Hetep
     
  8. SAMURAI36

    SAMURAI36 Banned MEMBER

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    Bravisimo. Absolutely outstanding, and exemplary post. :bowdown:

    SHEMHOTEPU
     
  9. Isaiah

    Isaiah Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Brothers James, Sam, and Keita, I kinda knew this thread would go here, with the comparisons between the other religions and the ATR's, but that is not what I was aiming at... I was aiming NOT at what the religion(s) do for one's personal wellbeing, but how they benefit our communities as a whole. Instead, I am getting dogma... I can get dogma from Christians and Muslims, and I can get from each what they FEEL the religion does for them psychologically and "spiritually..." What I am more interested in is how can these religious institutions serve more than the spiritual...

    Sam says, of course, the ATR's have not been around as long as Christian organizations in the United States, so they've not been able to build the instituions Christian and Islamic institutions have built... Fair enough... But what of the ATR's in Latin America, which have been around in Cuba, Brazil, and Haiti so long(since inception)that they are the NATIONAL RELIGIONS of these countries??? CRIME??? In the favelas of Brazil, crime is outta control, and so are the CUBAN prisons filled with AFricans... Nigeria is one the most corrupt countries on the planet, and the Congo is rife with a genocide that is heartbreaking... These two countries, along with Angola, are responsible for what major ATR's we know of in this hemisphere... Am I blaming our troubles on the relgions??? NOPE! Just saying that we need to be careful not to give them the level of importance some of us are giving them... Malcolm said that if your religion hasn't done anymore for ya than it has...

    Again, I have deep and abiding love and respect for African Traditional Religions. I've been to bembes, and yes, I found myself feeling more African than I've ever felt in my life... The songs, the drumming, the pageantry, the spirit possession, the food...all off the hook... But then I've heard my African Cuban and Puerto Rican friends kinda scourge Christianity and Islam as you guys tend to do, and I think, wow, African Latinos are like, at least, 50 years behind us in this country as per their humanity being respected... They've never had a true revolution to secure their rights as human beings, and it makes me wonder why??? I am not saying tha Christianity and Islam are behind our thrust here to secure our human rights, but they've each played an important part... You got your religion, but I have my dignity and respect, I tell them... And even though the battle is not over, at least we've made a start... When will the TRADITIONS inspire you to rise up, and make way for a better tomorrow for you and your children???

    Got to go, fellaz, but those are the answers I am seeking from you, not comparitive religion classes... I need y'all to show me where he ATR's have built something substantive for the benefit of the community, and not just something that benefits 10, 100, 1,000 people on the spiritual tip... Granted, brother Keita, you talked about building on a bad foundation is a bad thing... Building not at all is also a bad thing, too, brother, because as the power of our Universe is ever CREATIVE, a people who are NOT building are not fulfilling their mission, their space in time... Rap to you guys later...



    Peace!
    Isaiah
     
  10. SAMURAI36

    SAMURAI36 Banned MEMBER

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    PEACE ISAIAH:

    That is the thing that is being misunderstood: the reason why the discussion carries us back to the "dogma", as you call it, is because that is more or less the foundation of Spirituality.

    You have been speaking about institutions, and what I have been trying to convey , is the ATR's are opposed to institutionalization. You're not going to get that from us.

    You're not necessarily supposed to get more than spirituality from a spiritual institution. And even if you are, what good are all those subsequent amenities, when the institution itself is lacking at the very core of what it claims to offer (spirituality)?

    That was the reason for the separation of Church and State to begin with.



    Actually, in all the places that you named, though ATR's are prevelant, they are NOT the national religions.

    http://www.odci.gov/cia/publications/factbook/fields/2122.html

    Christianity runs Brazil:

    Roman Catholic (nominal) 73.6%, Protestant 15.4%, Spiritualist 1.3%, Bantu/voodoo 0.3%, other 1.8%, unspecified 0.2%, none 7.4% (2000 census)

    Christianity runs Cuba:

    nominally 85% Roman Catholic prior to CASTRO assuming power; Protestants, Jehovah's Witnesses, Jews, and Santeria are also represented

    Christianity runs Haiti:

    Roman Catholic 80%, Protestant 16% (Baptist 10%, Pentecostal 4%, Adventist 1%, other 1%), none 1%, other 3%
    note: roughly half of the population practices Voodoo


    Islam and Christianity runs Nigeria:

    Muslim 50%, Christian 40%, indigenous beliefs 10%

    Christianity runs both Congo's:

    Congo, Democratic Republic
    Roman Catholic 50%, Protestant 20%, Kimbanguist 10%, Muslim 10%, other syncretic sects and indigenous beliefs 10%


    Congo, Republic
    Christian 50%, animist 48%, Muslim 2%


    Regarding Angola, while ATR's prevails, none of the key political people in power actually practices any of those beliefs:

    indigenous beliefs 47%, Roman Catholic 38%, Protestant 15% (1998 est.)

    So what good does it do? It's just another case of the minority ruling over the majority--no different than what goes on here.

    Then, you would miss the point of what ATR's offer to begin with.

    The purpose of esoteric spirituality is not necessarily to "build" in the linear sense, but rather to enlightenment.

    It is the enlightenment that leads to the building and development on sociological levels. That is what happened in Kemet: the people's minds and hearts and spirits were (getting) right, and that rightness was manifested in all that they built--temples, pyramids, etc.

    They realized that everything begins with the internal, and works its way outward.

    This however, is totally opposite of exoteric religions such as Christianity tries to offer: the external before the internal, or the carriage before the horse. As stated in the linked thread, the attempt is to try to build, without fortifying and developing one's intellect, true sense of oneness, etc.

    Like our Brother KEITA stated, this is just "building on an false foundation". It's bound to crumble each and ever time, and that is what we see all over the world, and especially in those countries that you named.

    [quiote]Granted, brother Keita, you talked about building on a bad foundation is a bad thing... Building not at all is also a bad thing, too, brother, because as the power of our Universe is ever CREATIVE, a people who are NOT building are not fulfilling their mission, their space in time... Rap to you guys later...
    Peace!
    Isaiah[/QUOTE]

    This is where the psychology of religion that I have spoken about in previous threads manifests itself.

    There is no way to build a building, without clearing away land, treating and preparing it, zoning it, laying a foundation, etc.

    To try to build something without doing all/any of these things, is to have your piece of architecture collapse down on top of you, as soon as you walk inside and close the door.

    Again, that's what's happening all around the world, in these countries that you named. That's why we have Presidents and all sorts of people in power doing all sorts of un-Godly things, from dropping bombs on people, to using their power and influence to fraternize with women.......All the while claiming that this society is founded upon "Christian principles".

    It's not going to work; it never has, and it never will.

    PEACE
     
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