Black Women : Are We Responsible

Discussion in 'Black Women - Mothers - Sisters - Daughters' started by Anana, Mar 7, 2003.

  1. Anana

    Anana Member MEMBER

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    Sisters -

    Are we spoiling men and causing them to become lazy by accepting behaviors, treatments, habits and attitudes that should be unacceptable? Are we creating problems for ourselves and each other by not holding men to a higher standard? Are we creating problems for ourselves and each other by not holding ourselves and each other to a higher standard when it comes to men? Are we making poor choices out of haste and pressure to have a man, i.e., getting emotionally and physically involved with an already committed man, or one who doesn't want to commit?

    If we required/insisted/demanded better from men and each other, our relationships would improve. More marriages would be successful and our children more emotionally stable. And ultimately, our community will be better. Women have been known to influence men with our behavior, walk, talk, smell, touch, smile and mere femininity.

    Can we influence more positive reactions and responses from men? Or...is it too late?

    What do you think?????
     
  2. NNQueen

    NNQueen going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Good question for the sisters, Anana. Being a woman, I tend to take a bias viewpoint on this topic. My comments are strictly confined to a woman's perspective. I think a lot (not all) Black women have settled too much when it comes to choosing a partner. I think that because society has changed in recent years, some Black women do raise their sons differently today than our mothers and grandmothers raised theirs. The family structure to some degree has become extremely relaxed and permissive. I wouldn't necessarily describe this as "spoiling" Black men, but I do agree it affects their behavior in negative ways. Regardless of the onslaught of negativism portrayed in music videos, television programs and the like, I still believe that if our homes were better managed, we might not be witnessing such an overwhelming impact in our homes and ultimately in our communities. In order to get our children back, help our men get on the right track, improve our relationships, make better choices, feel far less desperate and frustrated, Black women can't wait for the Black man to take the lead. Black women have the capacity to step up and speak out and get things done and our history proves that time and time again. I'll never forget reading the book "When and Where I Enter" by Paula Giddings which addresses that fact. Black women can open the door to setting her people free. If there's a problem that needs to be fixed with our relationships, Black women need to take a stand individually and collectively to improve the situation. If that requires that we practice some "tough" love, then so be it. True, some men might cross over to find other women that will let him do what he wants to do and that's okay. We can't prevent that. But I have to believe that there will enough Black men who are truly committed to his nubian queens to hang in there and work with her to make a better life for themselves and ultimately their communities.

    Don't settle sisters. Hold out until someone comes to you with the qualities that you feel you deserve. Remember, if you don't expect much, then you'll never get much.
     
  3. Anana

    Anana Member MEMBER

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    It feels chaotic now, but I believe that we (men & women) can step away from the complexity and the confusion of it all and begin to make better/positive decisions and choices. Because of the influence women have or can have, it can begin by demanding more & better (even from ourselves). Just like we made crazy statements like 'I don't need no man', we can begin to speak more positively. And let our actions copy our words.

    Because, our young sisters are not going to listen to lip service, if more mature sisters are not setting better examples.

    It can be a start.
     
  4. Anana

    Anana Member MEMBER

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    NNQueen -

    I agree with your statement that if we don't expect much, then we won't receive much. Because it seems like a hopeless case, it may take some 'tough love', rocky times, and even more lonely times for some of us, but we have to do it.

    I have been told that I think that all problems can be solved by simply saying 'stop that'. So, I realize that the response to my 'first step' to solving the problem, for some, may be 'it's not that simple'.

    Take care
     
  5. NNQueen

    NNQueen going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Keme, in my opinion, what you describe are merely symptoms of a bigger problem. The behavior you describe that Black women have is not inherent in Black women, my brother. Black women didn't just one day wake up in the20th century and declare that she no longer needed the Black man for anything more than simply "stud" service as you describe it. As I've stated before, something is happening to cause Black men and Black women to hurt each other. Whatever that "something" is, makes most of us feel hopeless and helpless to find ways to stop the madness and turn things around for the better.

    Keme, you sound very bitter toward Black women and you constantly place blame on us for all the negative things that happen to our race. You assign no responsibility to the so-called human walking erections (men). When did the Black man become a helpless victim of Black women?

    Can't you see that it truly does take two to tango? Do you honestly believe that Black women are so uniquely different than women of other races and such ice queens that we don't want to give love to and receive healthy love from our Black men? I realize that there are the immature among us who are contributing to this every-growing belief that we're a troubled and lost people. But all is not lost because there are also those among us who do believe in us and continue to hope for a better future.

    My brother...expand your mind. You're looking at things too superficiously. Black women alone aren't the problem! We are not your enemy. We are just as confused as our men as to how we got here. Pain is a symptom that something is wrong. Until we begin to communicate more openly about what hurts us and work on ways to stop the pain, we will continue to falter and wander blindly through this wilderness.

    Have you ever seen the civil rights documentary, "Eyes On The Prize"? Given where we are today as a people, what do you think the prize is that we should keep our eyes on?
     
  6. 62special

    62special Member MEMBER

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    I believe that this is why HIV is so prevalent in our community. Is this Gods way of speaking to us to look at ourselves and what we are becoming. We continue to prove ourselves with our bodies, and our music and the video content seen on TV doesn't do us justice at all. I was shocked to learn that more men in their middle 30's and up are most impressioned by this hardcore rap music than the younger gender. Hey I would like to know what do we do, there is no need to blame, we are all in this together. This war is bigger than 9/11 we are at battle...for what?,..we are at war,..for what? it's everybodies fault but our own....why? and we are dying...because before you get yours,..I'm gonna get mines,...what's going on my black brothers and sisters.
     
  7. Rain

    Rain Active Member MEMBER

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    I don't think it is too let to insist that our men step up to a higher roll and i do believe that our men treat us accordingly. If we are passive when it comes to our mens behavior then they will say hum... maybe i can do this this and this you are right we have to influence our men to become stronger in there life so in turn our families will also. Heres a thought maybe we should look at what roll history has played in our men being the way they are now. Ps Black men stay strong and the true sistas will always have your back.
     
  8. Anana

    Anana Member MEMBER

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    Hi Special -

    Living a righteous/clean life is an individual choice that should (and can be) be exercised for the well being and health of that individual, relationships, familes, our community and ultimately of our society. When choices are clouded with selfishness, ignorance, greed, etc., then everyone suffer - as we are now.

    It is easy to do whatever one wants and then try to escape responsibilty for those actions. But we do it. It's easier to search for someone to 'put up' with us than to work and improve ourselves. But we do it.

    Some people are going to do whatever they want. They are the people that go left just because someone suggest they go right. You can't tell some people nothing. That's the way it is, but does not mean we have to resign from doing right because others will not. Maybe some will be 'won over' from the actions of others: influence.

    I will piggyback on what NNQueen stated and agree that we can't wait for men to step up. Or anyone, for that matter.

    I know that the thought processes of some of us include selfishness and 'getting mine'. We are at war. Not a physical war, but one of principles, ways, thoughts, differences of opinion, etc.

    What do we do? As an individual I must...
    1. Know what is expected of me from God, myself and others.

    2. Establish personal values and be honest about them. What I
    want, what matters to me, etc.

    3. Live according to my values that will enhance my life and
    others around me, conscious of my decisions and choices.

    4. Grow from experience.

    Those are some things I share with my circle of sistah friends and especially to my neices, nephews, the girls in my Sunday School class, and the girl I mentor.

    I know it starts with me, the people I touch, the people they touch and maybe it will eventually touch...you.

    With Much Luv -
     
  9. Anana

    Anana Member MEMBER

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    Hi Rain -

    True. Our history has been plagued with abuse, wrongs and a whole heap of pain. But evenso, we are still here and we still have each other. If we think about what kept us going in spite of all that abuse, etc. We can do the same to rise above the abuse, wrongs & whole heap of pain we are causing ourselves and each other.
     
  10. NNQueen

    NNQueen going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Ditto Anana...well put.

    I have nothing against spoiling people that I genuinely care about. I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with doing things to show affection for the purpose of contributing to another person's happiness. But is "spoiling" someone a reward for acceptable behavior or is it something that only makes the giver feel good? Shouldn't it be both?

    I know that a lot people talk about unconditional love and I support that concept for the most part but I think even that doesn't happen without some boundaries. It's good to love someone so much that you don't put conditions on the relationship or expect things in return, however, I only see this genuinely happening in positive two-way relationships where there are positive outcomes for both partners.

    When a partner exhibits behavior deemed unacceptable to either the other partner, to others outside the relationship or society as a whole, is it good to continue to spoil that person?

    What are women afraid will happen if they stop "spoiling" their men and expect their behavior to change for the better? What is the WORST thing that could happen?

    Faith, courage and discipline. All good qualities to practice but not always easy to do.
     
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