Pan Africanism : Are We Arrogant, Condescending, & Disrespectful To Each Other?

Discussion in 'Black History - Culture - Panafricanism' started by Destee, Sep 4, 2004.

  1. Destee

    Destee destee.com STAFF

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    Hello Family,

    When i first thought to create this thread, it was going to be directed primarily to "African Americans" ... but after giving it more thought, i think it would be safe to include all Black Folk everywhere ... since all Black Folk everywhere have the same oppressor, and are probably a little guilty of this no matter where in the world we reside.

    Based on my observations in this community, "African Americans" (and of course, not all) seem to have a better ability at being arrogant, condescending, and disrespectful than our Sisters and Brothers around the world.

    This could be, and probably is, directly related to the fact that the majority in this community are "African Americans" ... so i have the opportunity to see more of our behavior vs that of Sisters and Brothers coming from other places. So while my view is slanted, i think it is still worth noting.

    I read here recently where an "African American" Member was bragging to an "African" Member about how much we have done for the Sisters and Brothers on the continent.

    I have read where an "African American" Member, suggested that Sisters and Brothers on the continent go and kill white folk, as a solution to their collective problems.

    I have read where an "African American" Member said to an "African" Member (i believe they were African), if you have a problem with "African Americans", then leave this forum / community.

    I believe all of this took place in the "Pan-African" forum!

    Do we not see ourselves?

    Do we not realize that we are doing the very thing that our oppressors have taught (done) us to do?

    I guess since we can't be arrogant, condescending, and disrespectful to our oppressors ... i mean we, "African Americans", won't make any great impact being this way to them ... for in their minds (as well as in reality, as it pertains to economics, politics, etc.) we are less than them.

    So, since we can't be this way to them, effectively, we do it to our Sisters and Brothers throughout the world (and here in the states), because we are certainly more like the beast than any others ... since we live here in its belly.

    You all remember Brother Malcolm speaking about house slaves and field slaves (i think he used the N word)? I wasn't ever really comfortable with that anology because it further divided us (i've shared this in chat before) but as i think on it now, it is a perfect analogy for this situation! "African Americans" are the house slaves and all other Black Folk in the world are the field slaves! We are so very close to massa, we think like him, we dress like him, we emulate him in every way ... and those Black Folk who aren't fortunate enough to be in the house (the united states) with massa ... eating his scraps and such ... well ... we shole hate it for you ... 'cause you'll never get to eat his leftovers as often as we get to eat them! We are fat and fine offa massa's leftovers!

    Do we not see that if we can't find ways to keep the discussions and dialogue civil and respectful, no matter how much we disagree, that we are doing our oppressor's bidding?

    I believe we, "African Americans", are arrogant, condescending, and disrespectful. I had one Member tell me tonight that at least we aren't fleeing from our problems (i'm assuming he was referencing those Sisters and Brothers that are leaving Africa to come to the US or some other country).

    I realize my thoughts may be somewhat haphazard, but do yall understand what i'm saying?

    It's as though, we are reflecting our oppressor's image. We think too highly of ourselves, because we do live in what is considered the most prosperous, luxurious, educated, part of the world ... regardless of the fact that the majority of us are not welcome to partake in this great wealth of opportunity!

    It's as though we have this, "i'm better than you mentality." ... "I've studied yall." ... "I've met lots of people from the continent."... "I know all about yall." ... "I watch CNN!"

    Oh my gosh!

    All of these types of things being said when the truth of the matter is, our vote is not counted, we can't walk in banks and get loans, we're the last hired and the first fired, the majority of us have no health coverage, we die from preventable diseases every day, the prisons here are full of us, our children are selling drugs and having babies, we are not even able to hold a respectful conversation with each other without it erupting into name calling, we are totally discounted in every possible way ... but we want to brag about what we did for the Sisters and Brothers on the continent! Please! We can't hardly do anything for ourselves unless our oppresor gives us explicit permission ... but we all across the water saving other folk ... solving their problems ... oh yeah, we got the answer for you ... you need to do this right here ... and if you're not receptive to what we say, you may be accused of being white ... because we are the authority on black!!!

    Oh My Gosh!

    Have yall ever heard the phrase ... "don't help me, help the bear!"

    How you gonna fix somebody else's problems when you can't even respectfully discuss, let alone solve your own?!!!

    Now i know some of you are already thinking of your personal experiences with Sisters and Brothers outside of the states, where they were the arrogant, condescending, and disrespectful one(s). Okay. I'm willing to concede that it happens on both sides ... but c'mon Family ... SOMEONE has to step up and be the bigger person, if any real progress is to be made!

    We must all try to be very aware of what we're saying and doing to each other, if unity is truly our goal.

    *sigh*

    Okay.

    I'm finished.

    :heart:

    Destee
     
  2. PurpleMoons

    PurpleMoons Administrator STAFF

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    Sis, I am so with you on this! I can't speak for everyone else but when I spew out negatively at another, What I usually get back is what I gave. No solution is ever solved. Just alot of hurt feelings followed. I do make a concsious attempt to consider where anothers point may be comming from.

    For sure I don't know everything and make plenty of wrong calls. I know this about myself, so I more than often stop to consider anothers point before I come to any hard conclusion. What I want for myself and my people is mental growth. I want to see us really feeling our connection to each other. Thats why I address all as my Brother and Sister.

    I will listen to my Brother or Sister more than I will a stranger. I dont want to hender their thoughts in anyway. This is something we can all practice as a people. We must except the fact that we can be wrong about something, and someone else may have the answer even if it doesn't sound pleasing to the ear.

    I just wanna talk with my people. Not debate on the issues we all want solutions for. It is no doubt in my mind that there are some serious deep minds gathered here. Although I read more than I discuss, I'm learning so much that my head hurts sometimes. But when my people start fussing with each other that process is disturbed. They message starts to become distorted. And I no longer want to hear!

    We really do play ourself short when we cut down each other! The one who we shoo away might have knowledge in an area that no one has considered before.

    I want to hear all my Brothers and Sister view points. Be it ridiculous or right on point! I will soak the information that pertains more to my growth and raise a few questions myself sometimes.(smile)

    I truly feel you on this Sis!
     
  3. jamesfrmphilly

    jamesfrmphilly going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    ah, but did you notice what the Africans were saying?
    when an African fires a shot at me, i think i'm justified in firing back, am i not?

    i think this forum is mainly populated by African Americans.
    input from someone else is greatly appreciated and welcome.
    each one who comes here is warmly welcomed.
    i have said so myself.

    however, if a person can not tolerate an honest, opposing view, isn't it only a matter of time before they leave?
     
  4. Isaiah

    Isaiah Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Destee, good points all around, and I do admit to getting a little out of hand with my comments about Brothers and Sisters in the Diaspora - particularly on a day like yesterday, when I was having a tough day, and more than a little cranky(smile!)

    BUT...I have some mixed emotions about this... For example, I have posted for 3 years at Afrolatino sites on the web, while completely ignoring forums like this... I felt I was better serving the larger African community by attempting to better understand and share with Diasporan Africans... I even became a member of the Organization of Africans in The Americas, which is an organization that seeks to uplift Africans in Latin America, whom I have a lot of love for... My best friends over the past 25 years were from Honduras, the Dominican Republic, and Cuba - and I did not actively seek these cats out as friends... There just seemed, and is, a natural chemistry between us... What I noticed about at least 2 of these brothers is that they are mad honest about the African Latin American mentality, and I can assure you that if you think I was crude yesterday toward BienAmor, you would be less than tickled to hear these cats rap about their personal opinions and experiences among "their own..."

    In my years at those boards, 99% of our convos were cordial and respectful, but there was that 1% that made your hair stand up on your neck in anger at the level of ignorance expressed by some brothers and sisters from Latin America... Yesterday, I admit to having a flashback of some of those convos... I thought BienAmor came off as self-righteous, and all of those things he, and yourself, are saying about African Americans... Many people in many countries believe they know what is going on in other countries, not just African Amerians... I have sat with African Caribbeans, as well as, African Latinos, and heard them speak about African Americans as though my city, New York, is representative of African Americans all over the country!!!(smile!)

    Now, I'm smiling, but I aint jokin'... Is that not the most absurdest sugarhoneyicetea you've ever heard??? Yet these same folks will make comments and inferences about African American ignorance of who and what they are about... They don't know, for example, of the culture clashes between southern and northern, eastern and western, rural and urban African Americans... They don't know of our class and political conflicts and differences, and few of them take any time to study these things without making glaring assumptions about WHO it is we are... We have said it ourselves, that we are no monolith, and we do not have solidarity on a number of fronts and issues... We have different needs in our cities, north and south, than in suburban and rural areas... We, therefore, do battle on many fronts, and that includes attempting to participate in the debates on issues concerning OUR motherland...

    Sister Destee, we have that dual consciousness about these things, which tug on us from both directions... We have Africans and African Diasporans telling us they need our help, and telling us don't bring your ghetto assess here... It seems to me that if you are asking for our help, you need to allow us to get in where we fit in, or just help yourselves... Like, hey, we're trying to help you, ourselves, and everybody else, and you are showing me the door before I can get in... Listen, just go away, and simmer in your own confusion... Who needs that nonsense??? We didn't ask for their help in the Civil Rights Movement... We knew it was not forthcoming...

    And now brothers and sisters are here, benefitting from our struggles, still got a hand out for more, while litterally doing everything in their power to dissociate from us... That is duplicitous, that is scandalous, that is cowardice in the extreme, and I frankly cannot see why they deserve my respect sometimes... Sorry...and that aint because I am a house slave, or an emulator of the former slave master... It is because you aint down with a program that would benefit ALL Africans... You just about your tribal nonsense, which Africans in the Americas can do without... We've fought hard here in this wilderness to achieve something... No, we aren't perfect, and what we've achieved is an on-going project, but please don't stand on the sideline while my highknee was in a sling all of these centuries, and talk about my arrogance... I figure better for you butt that I was arrogant than a freakin' coward...

    Finally, Sister Destee, on a personal note, I have commented on our ability to accept criticism as a group... I realize that we cannot get up that mountain without a plan that would include doing a great deal of self-examination... Perhaps, our sensitivity to criticism is what causes us to get "stupid" when stupid is totally uncalled for... Despite all of the things I've said up above as a means of explaining some of our angst with African Diasporans, I agree with you that we have to be "bigger" than we've been - even on a bad day like I had yesterday...

    Peace!
    isaiah
     
  5. Therious

    Therious Banned MEMBER

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    PERSONALLY I TRY TO TREAT ALL BLK PPL, WITH EXTREME RESPECT. EVEN IF THEY R ARROGANT OR RUDE. IF THEY R THEN I DNT HAVE 2 DEAL W/ THEM. BUT I STILL TRY BLK UNITY ON ALL LEVELZ IS 2 IMPORTANT. IT DOES ANNOY ME THAT MANY FOREIGN BLKS (NOT OF U.S. ORIGIN) STEREO TYPE US, AS IT ANNOYS ME THT MANY IGNORANT BLKS FROM THE U.S. DO THE SAME TO THEM. HOWEVER THESE PPL R PRODUCTS OF MEDIA WASHING & WHT LIES. OR JUST PLAIN UNINFORMED AKA IGNANT


    I WONDER WHAT FOREIGN AFRIKANS SAY AND THINK ABOUT WHT AMERRYCONS. SOME COME HERE AND KISS UP, THINKING THEY CAN GET PAID BY PLAYING THE GAME, THINKING AA'S ARE JUST TO LAZY OR IGNORANT. FAM, SELL OUTS R FOUND IN ALL CULTURES. LOOK AT THE BLKS WORKING WITH THE BUSH REGIME, REAL RECOGNIZES REAL. I SAY 4 THOSE A'S THAT COME HERE AND B ALL UP W/ THE WHTS LET THEM, THEYLL LEARN ABOUT THE WHT AMERRYCONS WAYS, JUST LIKE THE AA'S WHO DO THE SAME. WE DNT NEED THEM. THEYRE A HINDERENCE 2 OUR PROGRESS...

    THE REAL IS THE ONLY ONE A REAL PERSON SHOULD WANT TO DEAL WITH. FOR ALL OR AT LEAST MOST 2 B ON THE SAME PAIGE GROWTH WISE, WILL B GRADUAL, AFTER ALL AA'S R NOT COMPLETELY UNIFIED. I SAY THE SAME APPLIES INTERNATIONALLY....WE SHOULD TRY TO EDUCATE THOSE A'S WHO R NAIVE ABOUT THIS CONN-TREE BUT AT THE SAME TIME WHY WASTE TIME ARGUING W/ FOOLISH BRAINWASHED ZOMBIES? DEAL W/ THOSE WHO HELP WSH 2 HELP THEM SELVES....THEIR OUT THERE


    ONE LOVE
     
  6. MrBlak

    MrBlak Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    this is an important topic

    Your whole post is excellent. I hve encountered obnoxious statements like the bolded type above. The idiots who say such things no nothing of the world except what happens on their own block. They dont understand the push and pull reasons why people immigrate to all different countries around the world. I am glad you posted this.....there is alot of arrogance.....I have had to deal with it but change has to come from within and since I am not American, I would not have had any effect in making a post like this.

    Thanks.....

    btw....everyone knows that it goes both ways and respect is a 2 way street...but many dont recognize this till someone else wants respect while they would claim they deserve it, but dont give it. You are that "bigger person" you spoke of obviously!! :toast: :toast:

    MrBlak
     
  7. toylin

    toylin Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Not saying either side is right, but the flip side is this: how many times have we African-Americans heard a non-American Black person speak rudely about us? One of my friends married a man from Ghana. He routinely makes comments such as: You Black Americans are lazy. You Black Americans don't know how good you have it. You Black Americans had that slavery thing, but that was over 100 years ago!.......

    I think that both sides need to be a little bit more open and understanding of each other. None of us are better than any of us. Yes, we American Black folk may have (on the average) more money, better food, better educations, better jobs, etc, etc.. but what have we lost? Our heritage, our sense of family and togetherness.......
     
  8. jamesfrmphilly

    jamesfrmphilly going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    idiots?, maybe we should pay attention to the names we call each other?
     
  9. Destee

    Destee destee.com STAFF

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    Thanks everyone for responding.

    My concern for us is so real. I believe that we can all live together peacefully. It is our nature to be a peaceful people. There is much evidence of this in our history. During one of Brother OldSoul's previous classes, he shared how our Ancestors made friends everywhere they went. Evidenced by our images on pyramids all over the world. Such monuments could not be erected without there being a Spirit of peace and cooperation amongst all involved.

    But as a result of white supremacy, we have become something other than ourselves. We not only fight those in our own homes, we fight those in our neighborhoods, cities, states, this country, other countries, and continents, all throughout the world (including right here on the Internet). We are fighting each other, even though we are all in the same boat.

    Mr. Neely Fuller said, when he visited us ... to imagine the world as one great big slave ship. All of us are on the bottom of that ship, yet we are down here fighting each other. Those on the top level of the ship don't care if we are fighting our own siblings, or if it is a Sister or Brother from another continent ... so long as we are fighting each other and keeping our eyes off of them ... the real problem.

    Imagine if we began to love and respect each other (so much so, that it manifested itself in our words and actions), those laying on the top level of the ship getting a sun tan and sipping sugar water, would become very very concerned. But as things stand right now, they have no reason to even flinch ... because we continue to fight each other.

    We simply have no room for this right now. Our condition is so bad, that we cannot afford any wasted opportunities to build together. It is not enough to say i did my best, when your best is not sufficient to solve the problem ... these too are some of Mr. Fuller's words, not exact, but what he implied. Those of us who know better must do better, and continue to do better until the problem is no more.

    We get beside ourselves because we are all packed in the bottom of a slave ship, fighting for air, space, food ... our very survival. A few may have some dry grass to lay on, while others must lay on a hard naked floor. They know exactly what they're doing and how we will respond to it. They know this creates division amongst us, as all of us have our eyes on them, and the very plush lifestyle they live. We aspire to be like them, so we think that little piece of grass covered floor means we're more like them, successful. Those of us who may have a little grass on the floor of our corner of the slave ship, please don't get caught up. If anything, you should be plucking up some of that grass and sharing it with the Sister or Brother who's floor is bare.

    We must consider the words we use, the acts we partake in, the impact they may have on our Sister and Brother. If you are not able to compose your words in such a way as not to offend, remember there is nothing wrong with going without speaking, if it may help your Brother or Sister from feeling attacked. Not all words and thoughts are meant to be uttered. Once they are out, they cannot be retrieved. So let us weigh each one heavily, insuring that it builds up and does not unnecessarily tear down, our Sister or Brother ... no matter where in this slave ship they are located.

    Again, thanks everyone for responding. Yall are the best Famblee in the whole wide world! :love:

    :heart:

    Destee
     
  10. toylin

    toylin Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Well said Sister Mother Destee! I've been telling people this for years.. we're fighting each other and the white folks are laughing at us. They no longer have to work to destroy us.. we're destroying ourselves.
     
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