Black Spirituality Religion : Are the Occult Sciences Static

In the Spirit of Sankofa and Truth!

Thanks for the responses Warrior, Ankhur, Clyde, and 44. Ankhur and Clyde seemed to have taken my questions as if I don’t have my own answers, so I’ll clarify some things from my original post in hopes of minimizing any confusion and to get answers more specific to what I’m asking.

I am asking these questions to compare/contrast the answers with my own thoughts or opinions on the subject so as to refine or clarify my thoughts or opinions.

I use occult as an umbrella term, which I at the time include the esoteric versions of religion.


Some people just seemed so panicked and angry by the Europeans having their cultural version of our esoteric sciences and using it. They act surprised when they notice some subliminal message hand sign or symbol on T.V., but are usually watching a lot of T.V. themselves. They say they are interested in studying the sciences themselves, but tend to do more white-folk-bashing than anything. For the record, I do think the occult sciences evolve too. So my question is why all the panic about them interpreting it their own way (if that is just one facet of it). They have stolen other things too but these people are not fretting about those things. If it does evolve or is fluid/the same in any direction why not just study the one you’re interested in instead of fretting.

This is important to me in my mind because some people want to understand astrology. Now western astrology is more widely available to study, but there are those who are adamant in studying the Kemetic version. For instance, I have a fair amount of knowledge of western astrology to understand the traits of the signs and the general effects of planets in certain houses or under certain signs. But because I use western astrology as my reference point, I found it hard to understand astrology better from an acquaintance because he used the Kemetic zodiac and refused to acknowledge the western zodiac even to the point of not showing me the Kemetic equivalents of the western signs. So if changes make the sciences stronger, why so bullheaded about working with another system (especially if I am seeking to get back to the original)????

Some folks I’ve come across stating to be into metaphysics seems to argue certain metaphysical principals only when it agrees with their perception (maybe that’s the beauty of these sciences?) for example: let’s say I got something stolen from me. That person would argue I was sending off some ‘victim vibes’ or projecting a scarcity mindset and it was meant to be (karma even).. but if he were to get something stolen from himself he would argue it was an injustice done to him and Maat will punish the wrongdoer. This same person also perceived my study of these sciences as lustful because he himself was not studying them at my age. He said that Egyptian Mysteries stated that a person without coming of age initiations is not conscious until 27. I’m assuming he used this piece of information to interpret my interest as lust (this is the same one who wouldn’t help me understand the Kemetic zodiac). I knew another person who had an interest in Buddhism, but steals (he is familiar with karma). I ran into someone who said he was a Knight of Pythian in the past, but now in an ATR. He said the Council of Nicea never happened and that people telling that story are spreading lies. I am unsure if he came across this view in the Knights or the ATR.

So I wanted to know the opinions of others of why I am attracting people who seem to show inconsistencies in their understanding/practice of these sciences. I wanted to find a face-to-face group that I can ask and learn about these things with, but this is what I’m initially getting.


When I wrote about the New Age Movement in my last post I was speaking more of the commercial availability of occult information rather than a cultural/sociological type of perspective where more people are questioning life’s mysteries. For instance: Oprah challenging Christian perspectives on national television, all these books coming out telling people about mental science, books out teaching people about intention and energy. While I have noticed people asking questions I am still suspicious of some of the intentions and availability of the information because the most ‘popular’ of this esoteric information seems to be packaged as Christian ready. The most commercially visible and viable is built to transition a Christian. I am aware of people offering paths to Sufi or Buddhism, but it is still common to find these latter paths more holistic and teaching things out of the Bible. Whereas most of the ‘popular’ ish seems to just be dabbling into the sciences (and acknowledge nothing of other religions/spiritual systems other than Christianity).
It alarms me because back in my religion days I saw a lot of persecution like behavior because of difference of religions. Now since I am in a supposed majority Christian nation that may be why I came across most of this behavior from Christians. The people that I spoke of earlier were Christians growing up and they still seem to have some ‘church’ ways about them. All in all, I am saying that it seems to me we’re switching the curriculum (exoteric religion to esoteric spirituality), but that is all that is changing with most who are said to be interested in these sciences (now I know I don’t know everybody, so saying most is kinda far stretched, but this is what I have observed up close). If it is a matter of me needing more world experience, then one of my ways of doing that is being on this forum.

If it is an energetic thing of people questioning life, where is the ‘New Age Movement’ (the sociological and the commercial) in India or Africa. Why here in the U.S.??? I’ve read articles over the past couple of years stating that the numbers of Christians are dwindling. A lot of this chakra and feng shui stuff is pretty popular for it to not be mainstream. Why isn’t there a collage of books and commercial sensationalism on practicing Buddha consciousness or Confucius consciousness rather than Christ consciousness (I am not implying any correlation of Confucius with feng shui). Is it simply a matter of marketability? Could there be some foul play involved with the intent of getting people involved with esoteric knowledge who may do harm to themselves or others, or just make it more difficult to discern between those who have been seeking the esoteric sciences for some time and those that are in it because of something they were introduced to in a book club??

If there are people who are showing an interest because of a book club, I wouldn’t necessarily knock that process. I mean that’s one of the unwritten (or written) rules, that everybody’s path is different. It only really becomes a problem, for me, when I come across others who may have been put in a position to teach these sciences or are volunteering their help, but are throwing situations at me like the above mentioned situations I experienced.

On a side note, you have folks running around saying they don’t want to be around ‘negative’ people and don’t want anything to do with ‘negative’ energy. While I understand they are using negative to mean certain unpleasant emotions or behaviors, most seem to mean it as ABSOULTLY as possible. If they see someone a little broke, or angry, or whatever they act like these people are demons. With this law of attraction bull****, people have now demonized these traits or energies. I guess it’s easy for them, but I’ve been studying from a science background the past couple of years and ‘negative’ energy is just another facet of this life and is actually respected by me. I guess since they don’t like negative energy, they don’t like electricity either (I get particularly irked when I hear females say this). If you study occult sciences, are female, and have a disdain for ‘negative’ energy, won’t this affect you subconsciously somewhere??… The female is aligned with the negative pole.

Does asking /offering something of/to the universe make your askings/offerings/intentions/ritual weaker than asking a specific deity?? I asked this because I heard a blogtalk radio program where Bobby Hemmitt said this and was wondering what other’s experience has been like. He said using ‘the universe’ instead of a specific deity is too general and can leave any entity to come and fill in for ‘the universe’.

On an end note, I just wanted to add that I am also on this forum to practice explaining and expressing myself more. Speaking/expressing myself doesn’t come naturally to me so I try and take my time explaining myself. Thanks again to everyone who did reply.




9EtherAlchemist,

Welcome to Destee.com and thanks for the clarity. For starters, let me say this, we are in the information age, so, your concerns as expressed, are neither alarming nor unexpected. Absorbing too much knowledge, in my opinion is dangerous at this point, however.

From a fundamental perspective, to be couched in one belief system is challenging enough. I will say this, America and it's Christians, which become marketing strategy for so-called esoteric phenomenons and the avant-garde, world wide; continues to be the prime target for acquiring large followings.

Do work on self expression and presenting clear thoughts, which is the gate-way to understanding. It is my desire that you find what you are searching for...Peace In brother.

 
Thanks for the responses Warrior, Ankhur, Clyde, and 44. Ankhur and Clyde seemed to have taken my questions as if I don’t have my own answers, so I’ll clarify some things from my original post in hopes of minimizing any confusion and to get answers more specific to what I’m asking.

I am asking these questions to compare/contrast the answers with my own thoughts or opinions on the subject so as to refine or clarify my thoughts or opinions.

I use occult as an umbrella term, which I at the time include the esoteric versions of religion.


Some people just seemed so panicked and angry by the Europeans having their cultural version of our esoteric sciences and using it. They act surprised when they notice some subliminal message hand sign or symbol on T.V., but are usually watching a lot of T.V. themselves. They say they are interested in studying the sciences themselves, but tend to do more white-folk-bashing than anything. For the record, I do think the occult sciences evolve too. So my question is why all the panic about them interpreting it their own way (if that is just one facet of it). They have stolen other things too but these people are not fretting about those things. If it does evolve or is fluid/the same in any direction why not just study the one you’re interested in instead of fretting.

This is important to me in my mind because some people want to understand astrology. Now western astrology is more widely available to study, but there are those who are adamant in studying the Kemetic version. For instance, I have a fair amount of knowledge of western astrology to understand the traits of the signs and the general effects of planets in certain houses or under certain signs. But because I use western astrology as my reference point, I found it hard to understand astrology better from an acquaintance because he used the Kemetic zodiac and refused to acknowledge the western zodiac even to the point of not showing me the Kemetic equivalents of the western signs. So if changes make the sciences stronger, why so bullheaded about working with another system (especially if I am seeking to get back to the original)????

Some folks I’ve come across stating to be into metaphysics seems to argue certain metaphysical principals only when it agrees with their perception (maybe that’s the beauty of these sciences?) for example: let’s say I got something stolen from me. That person would argue I was sending off some ‘victim vibes’ or projecting a scarcity mindset and it was meant to be (karma even).. but if he were to get something stolen from himself he would argue it was an injustice done to him and Maat will punish the wrongdoer. This same person also perceived my study of these sciences as lustful because he himself was not studying them at my age. He said that Egyptian Mysteries stated that a person without coming of age initiations is not conscious until 27. I’m assuming he used this piece of information to interpret my interest as lust (this is the same one who wouldn’t help me understand the Kemetic zodiac). I knew another person who had an interest in Buddhism, but steals (he is familiar with karma). I ran into someone who said he was a Knight of Pythian in the past, but now in an ATR. He said the Council of Nicea never happened and that people telling that story are spreading lies. I am unsure if he came across this view in the Knights or the ATR.

So I wanted to know the opinions of others of why I am attracting people who seem to show inconsistencies in their understanding/practice of these sciences. I wanted to find a face-to-face group that I can ask and learn about these things with, but this is what I’m initially getting.


When I wrote about the New Age Movement in my last post I was speaking more of the commercial availability of occult information rather than a cultural/sociological type of perspective where more people are questioning life’s mysteries. For instance: Oprah challenging Christian perspectives on national television, all these books coming out telling people about mental science, books out teaching people about intention and energy. While I have noticed people asking questions I am still suspicious of some of the intentions and availability of the information because the most ‘popular’ of this esoteric information seems to be packaged as Christian ready. The most commercially visible and viable is built to transition a Christian. I am aware of people offering paths to Sufi or Buddhism, but it is still common to find these latter paths more holistic and teaching things out of the Bible. Whereas most of the ‘popular’ ish seems to just be dabbling into the sciences (and acknowledge nothing of other religions/spiritual systems other than Christianity).
It alarms me because back in my religion days I saw a lot of persecution like behavior because of difference of religions. Now since I am in a supposed majority Christian nation that may be why I came across most of this behavior from Christians. The people that I spoke of earlier were Christians growing up and they still seem to have some ‘church’ ways about them. All in all, I am saying that it seems to me we’re switching the curriculum (exoteric religion to esoteric spirituality), but that is all that is changing with most who are said to be interested in these sciences (now I know I don’t know everybody, so saying most is kinda far stretched, but this is what I have observed up close). If it is a matter of me needing more world experience, then one of my ways of doing that is being on this forum.

If it is an energetic thing of people questioning life, where is the ‘New Age Movement’ (the sociological and the commercial) in India or Africa. Why here in the U.S.??? I’ve read articles over the past couple of years stating that the numbers of Christians are dwindling. A lot of this chakra and feng shui stuff is pretty popular for it to not be mainstream. Why isn’t there a collage of books and commercial sensationalism on practicing Buddha consciousness or Confucius consciousness rather than Christ consciousness (I am not implying any correlation of Confucius with feng shui). Is it simply a matter of marketability? Could there be some foul play involved with the intent of getting people involved with esoteric knowledge who may do harm to themselves or others, or just make it more difficult to discern between those who have been seeking the esoteric sciences for some time and those that are in it because of something they were introduced to in a book club??

If there are people who are showing an interest because of a book club, I wouldn’t necessarily knock that process. I mean that’s one of the unwritten (or written) rules, that everybody’s path is different. It only really becomes a problem, for me, when I come across others who may have been put in a position to teach these sciences or are volunteering their help, but are throwing situations at me like the above mentioned situations I experienced.

On a side note, you have folks running around saying they don’t want to be around ‘negative’ people and don’t want anything to do with ‘negative’ energy. While I understand they are using negative to mean certain unpleasant emotions or behaviors, most seem to mean it as ABSOULTLY as possible. If they see someone a little broke, or angry, or whatever they act like these people are demons. With this law of attraction bull****, people have now demonized these traits or energies. I guess it’s easy for them, but I’ve been studying from a science background the past couple of years and ‘negative’ energy is just another facet of this life and is actually respected by me. I guess since they don’t like negative energy, they don’t like electricity either (I get particularly irked when I hear females say this). If you study occult sciences, are female, and have a disdain for ‘negative’ energy, won’t this affect you subconsciously somewhere??… The female is aligned with the negative pole.

Does asking /offering something of/to the universe make your askings/offerings/intentions/ritual weaker than asking a specific deity?? I asked this because I heard a blogtalk radio program where Bobby Hemmitt said this and was wondering what other’s experience has been like. He said using ‘the universe’ instead of a specific deity is too general and can leave any entity to come and fill in for ‘the universe’.

On an end note, I just wanted to add that I am also on this forum to practice explaining and expressing myself more. Speaking/expressing myself doesn’t come naturally to me so I try and take my time explaining myself. Thanks again to everyone who did reply.



THANATOS


NICE POST.... AND VERY TRUE IN ESSENCE. THAT Y I WORKED WITH SPECIFIC ENTITY BECAUSE THERE IS ALOT OF STUFF OUT THERE.
 
"...but I’ve been studying from a science background the past couple of years and ‘negative’ energy is just another facet of this life and is actually respected by me. I guess since they don’t like negative energy, they don’t like electricity either (I get particularly irked when I hear females say this). If you study occult sciences, are female, and have a disdain for ‘negative’ energy, won’t this affect you subconsciously somewhere??… The female is aligned with the negative pole."

Excellent point brother 9EtherAlchemist! You can't conveniently divide things into positive/negative. Throughout history, women have always been accused of being of the negative energy. But women create life, so how can this be? My own spiritual system is guilty of this. I can always tell the relative age of a given verse of Odu by what it says about women. When they are venerated, respected, and yes, feared, when their power is acknowledged, i know it is an older Odu verse. When it talks about witches, etc. I know it is a younger verse.
I don't believe the idea that positive-negative are congruent with male-female. That's crap. As I stated in a previous post, whatever we can imagine ourselves doing as the ultimate act of good, we are equally capable of an act of evil of equal magnitude. In Ifa, this idea is expressed in eleiye, the Mothers. so the idea of unity is there. But in the typical fashion of male domination, it becomes ascribed only to females, or at least that they are more prone to evil. For instance, in Ifa it is believed by many that altthough there are male "witches," the female ones are more prone to acts of evil. It is said that a "witch would kill her own offspring, but a male "witch" wouldn't.
The unity of positive-negative is not understood or at least accepted by most.

ase
 

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