Black Spirituality Religion : Are less intelligent people always religious?

The debate will continue with no resolution in sight but this is not simply a matter of "religious" vs "non-religious" but "religion" vs "spirituality" and as Dr. Clarke has stated "Africans are a SPIRITUAL people".


Yes, but let's stay on topic. The thread is on 'religious' and 'non-religious' people. "Religion" versus "spirituality" is not what Dr. Clarke says. Dr. Clarke, admits that African people use religion for spirituality {you cited this} . The non-religious can be "spiritual" but they can more likely not be.

Truly, that this thread was originally in the "atheism" thread means something too. Taking it to a debate of "religion" versus "spirituality" ignores that the subject is "Atheism" and what that entails.

"Western Atheism" for instance is "A-spiritual."
 
Yes, but let's stay on topic. The thread is on 'religious' and 'non-religious' people. "Religion" versus "spirituality" is not what Dr. Clarke says. Dr. Clarke, admits that African people use religion for spirituality {you cited this} . The non-religious can be "spiritual" but they can more likely not be.

Truly, that this thread was originally in the "atheism" thread means something too. Taking it to a debate of "religion" versus "spirituality" ignores that the subject is "Atheism" and what that entails.

"Western Atheism" for instance is "A-spiritual."

In all respect can you show me where this thread is structured as religious vs non-religious? The non-religious can be "spiritual" but they can more likely not be? According to who?

Where does Dr. Clarke state that African people use RELIGION for spirituality and where did I cite this?

You are looking at this way to narrowly. Just because it was posted in the Atheism thread does NOT necessarily mean that it reflects Atheism. As I have attempted to explain before, it does reflect FREETHINKING which is not necessarily atheistic.

The problem I am having with your interpretation is in regards to your statement concerning ancient KMT. I have stated more than once than some of you are confusing the sacred (spiritual system) with the secular (religious).

How is the secular the same as the religious? Because in ancient KMT the secular took the form of a STATE RELIGION. And this was NOT the spiritual system of the African masses which was an initiation system that took place deep in the "bush" countries. This is true even to this day. The guardians of the TRUE African spiritual TRADITIONS are not based in the city-states or urban areas.

This is why brother Keita argues, correctly, that "religions" are the external forms of Kemetic spirituality, not the essence, which was and is spiritual, not an organized system of political control and hegemony.

You can continue to try and flip this with the non-religious labeling and other hyperbole but there are too many of us here who KNOW the difference between the spiritual folk and the religious folk, regardless of how much you attempt to insult and degrade our intelligence.
 

The premise of this thread is misleading and wrong.
- Really? How so?

Less intelligent people are more often non-religious.
- Are you referring to yourself?

We can use a historical argument: Africans are more religious than Europeans. QED.
- Emphatically Now Cypher! This is completely false and an attempt to purposely mislead others.

We can use a Philosophical argument: This involves defining intelligence. Let's do it in two ways.

In the first, my definition of intelligence, we will say "Possessing of knowledge for self-determination." My rationale: A self-determining individual is intelligent. So how do we use this definition? "Religious" people dominate the world in most every arena imaginable in most every society imaginable. QED.
- I understand that this is your definition, but again, it is way off base. Intelligence, is not the knowledge one posess' but rather how that knowledge is applied. Because religous people dominate the world in most every arena does not make them more intelligent than the non-religious, it means that they gained this control by violent means and keep their system in place by the same tactics to this day.

In the second, let's define intelligence as "Most possessing of truth." If all religion has a birthplace in the most ancient truths with at least four hundred centuries of research behind them, then the religious, in even having a snippet of this knowledge more than the non-religious are more intelligent. The belief contrary goes toward this false individualism that mocks our ancestry by believing that 13 years of "free thought" can trump 80,000 years of "religion."
- please name this religion you say has it's birthplace in the most acient truths!

Let the atheist define "intelligence." He will find that in any definition, the religious is likely more intelligent.
- How can you say this and you haven't even defined intelligence correctly above in one of your previous statements?

I do not speak in absolutes because 'religious' and 'non-religious' are qualities of a person that really should not have a meaning whatever. However it is the religious who made the first culture, the religious who made the first civilization, the religious who made the first empires and kingships, the religious who . . ..
- You don't speak in absoluteness? Lol - that's funny and a complete contradiction of everything else you've said in your post!
 
In all respect can you show me where this thread is structured as religious vs non-religious? The non-religious can be "spiritual" but they can more likely not be? According to who?

info-moetry's response to Kemestry, after Kemestry reverses the title of the thread (which mentions "religious"), emphasizes that the reversal of the title of the thread corresponds to the non-religious.

This is what he writes:
Is it soley based on the fact that they are NOT RELIGIOUS? Or are there others factors involved?

Where does Dr. Clarke state that African people use RELIGION for spirituality and where did I cite this?

In the video on Islam, 7 minutes in. He mentions how Africans used Islam for its spiritual aspect. You cited this video in another thread. I do not remember off the top of my head, but I can research it if you do not believe me. To clarify, I mean that you cited this video, not that you cited that information.

You are looking at this way to narrowly. Just because it was posted in the Atheism thread does NOT necessarily mean that it reflects Atheism. As I have attempted to explain before, it does reflect FREETHINKING which is not necessarily atheistic.

Understood. But it still appears that info-moetry was posting this question to atheists, not freethinkers.

He writes to Destee:
The question of this thread was aimed at the 'atheist' IN THE ATHEIST FORUM, SO I'M CONFUSED AS TO WHY YOU FELT TO MOVE IT TO THE RELIGIOUS FORUM WHERE IT WILL ONLY GET UGLIER BECAUSE OF THE NON-RESTRICTIVE NATURE OF SAID FORUM FOR NO OTHER REASON THAN THE FACT THAT THE TERM 'RELIGION/RELIGIOUS' WAS USED. EVEN THOUGH IT WAS USED IN A NON-COMBATIVE NATURE.


I hope that you understand why I responded to this thread as if it were atheists rather than freethinking.

The problem I am having with your interpretation is in regards to your statement concerning ancient KMT. I have stated more than once than some of you are confusing the sacred (spiritual system) with the secular (religious).

How is the secular the same as the religious? Because in ancient KMT the secular took the form of a STATE RELIGION. And this was NOT the spiritual system of the African masses which was an initiation system that took place deep in the "bush" countries. This is true even to this day. The guardians of the TRUE African spiritual TRADITIONS are not based in the city-states or urban areas.

This is why brother Keita argues, correctly, that "religions" are the external forms of Kemetic spirituality, not the essence, which was and is spiritual, not an organized system of political control and hegemony.

I appreciate these writings. I admit that it still confuses. But again, I hope that you understand why I find this "religious v. non-religious." info-moetry repeats often in the first two pages that this is the thrust of the thread.

Spiritual versus Religious looks interesting, but it doesn't appear to be info-moetry's intent when he asks: "Are less intelligent people always religious?"

You can continue to try and flip this with the non-religious labeling and other hyperbole but there are too many of us here who KNOW the difference between the spiritual folk and the religious folk, regardless of how much you attempt to insult and degrade our intelligence.

I would be very, very intelligent Omowale Jabali on the day that I can call you unintelligent.

HTP
 
- I understand that this is your definition, but again, it is way off base. Intelligence, is not the knowledge one posess' but rather how that knowledge is applied. Because religous people dominate the world in most every arena does not make them more intelligent than the non-religious, it means that they gained this control by violent means and keep their system in place by the same tactics to this day.

Using this "definition," the 'religious' would be more intelligent than the 'non-religion' because they more applied their knowledge of self-determination. QED.

- please name this religion you say has it's birthplace in the most acient truths!

The earliest citation of Dr. Clarke in this thread show how the elements of Islam were in place in Africa. These elements have basis in ancient truths. QED.

- How can you say this and you haven't even defined intelligence correctly above in one of your previous statements?

I just say it. Notice that you have not defined intelligence yourself and you asked the question.

- You don't speak in absoluteness? Lol - that's funny and a complete contradiction of everything else you've said in your post!

I noticed that you took issue with non-absoluteness, but I made sure to be non-absolute as well. Reread.

But, info-moetry, let me get something clear--what do you mean by this question?

Are you contrasting religious with atheists or religious with spiritual? That's not clear. If the former, then I stand by my earlier writings. If the latter, then you should write more clear.

HTP
 

Donate

Support destee.com, the oldest, most respectful, online black community in the world - PayPal or CashApp

Latest profile posts

HODEE wrote on Etophil's profile.
Welcome to Destee
@Etophil
Destee wrote on SleezyBigSlim's profile.
Hi @SleezyBigSlim ... Welcome Welcome Welcome ... :flowers: ... please make yourself at home ... :swings:
Back
Top