Black Spirituality Religion : Are both Mormonism and the Nation of Islam cults?

Discussion in 'Black Spirituality / Religion - General Discussion' started by pfa1451usa, Mar 26, 2006.

  1. pfa1451usa

    pfa1451usa Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    The major heresy of Mormonism is summed up in its central theological axiom, the doctrine of The Law of Eternal Progression. It is stated as follows: As Man is, God once was, and as God is, man may become."

    Basically, it says that the god of Mormonism was once a man who was born to human parents on another planet, grew to manhood, lived out his life being obedient to the laws and ordinances of the gospel presented by the god of that world. Upon his death and resurrection, he was judged (by his god) as being worthy for godhood.

    The Mormon god was raised to his godhood and sent with many goddess wives to a planet near the great star, Kolob, somewhere in our present galaxy. There, this god and his wives began ëprocreating' or physically begetting "spirit" children. We here on this planet are each the offspring of this god and one of his goddesses in this pre-existent Mormon world.

    Mormonism teaches that when their god decided it was time to populate this earth with his spirit children, the Head of All The Gods called a great council meeting to decide the method. The Mormon god asked his two eldest sons, Jesus and Lucifer, to both prepare plans for presentation to the council. They chose the plan of Jesus.

    Lucifer rebelled and led one-third of the "children" to revolt against god and in a great battle, was defeated by Christ and the two-thirds who were "valiant." Lucifer and those who fought with him were cast to earth without bodies and became the devil and his demons. Those others who were less than valiant became the black race and the very valiant became the "white and delightsome" race.

    Mormonism teaches that if Mormons are faithful, pay their tithing, obey all the laws and ordinances of the (Mormon) gospel, do their genealogy and go to the temple for secret, sacred rituals for both the living and their dead, they too can become gods and goddesses as "all gods have done before them."

    Elijah Muhammad taught that there are many Gods (polytheism); that some of these Gods had a beginning and later died; that one of them was Wallace D. Fard who literally was Allah; and that God is a man, the black man in general and Master Fard in particular. Throughout his teaching Elijah Muhammad gave credit to W. D. Fard (whom he also calls “Master Fard Muhammad, God in Person”) as the true and praiseworthy source for his teachings.

    According to Elijah Muhammad, the Black Creator was not eternal and at some point He died. “There is no God Living Who was here in the Creation of the Universe, but They produce Gods from Them and Their Wisdom lives in us.” For the past sixty-six trillion years, he claimed, the universe has been ordered by a council of twenty-four black deities. Twenty-three are described as Scientists; the twenty-fourth as God or Allah over the others.

    The history of the world is determined in advance by these Scientists, and “every twenty-five thousand (25,000) years, each God Coming After the Other God made a new civilization. His Belief, Teaching, and Theology were Different From the Other God Who Preceded Him.” Occasionally, these time cycles may be stretched to thirty-five thousand years.

    Elijah Muhammad taught that these Gods are not eternal, and in fact they even die after a few hundred years. “Allah . . . taught me that there are not any gods Who live forever. Their wisdom and work may live six thousand or twenty-five thousand years, but the actual individual may have died within a hundred or two hundred years, or the longest that we have a record of, around a thousand years.”


    You tell me…
     
  2. Keita Kenyatta

    Keita Kenyatta going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I got a better idea..."You do the research for yourself and come back and tell us". Just like you took the time to dig up what you posted, take the time to look deeper and get the results you want or need. Better yet, go read my thread http://destee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41030 so you'll understand why I just responded the way I did.
     
  3. pfa1451usa

    pfa1451usa Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Not yet...at 55 have done a great deal of research...

    ...would you prefer now to correct my "misinterpretation of the facts?"
     
  4. Keita Kenyatta

    Keita Kenyatta going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Since we are both in the same age group, you understand my response...and more than that, should also know the answer to your own question which might compell me to inquire why you would even ask it? You yourself should well know that knowledge or truth comes in degrees and that what was presented when it was presented and by who it was presented was another degree of the greater truth.
     
  5. pfa1451usa

    pfa1451usa Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Keita...apology in order...


    The question of even while I ask is obvious to the two of us. Degrees of truth are of evidence of the fruit of the tree. And yes, I as well as you both know that both are cults and false truths…

    I don’t question your faith nor strength brother. Don’t have it within my own self, my own mistakes, nor misguided truths to neither condemn nor criticize. I just wonder why many of our own continue to promote a most obvious adherent and false belief to our community…
     
  6. Keita Kenyatta

    Keita Kenyatta going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    The answer lies before us. If we look at all religions and cults, however we define them, "they are structured systems". Not only are they structured systems but they are on the surface, simplistic systems that do not require any great thought.

    Herein lies the answer to your question. What does this tell us? It should tell us something about the masses and it should tell us that if there's to be any actual enlightenment of them, that a system or simplistic structure will have to be developed. Actually we had one...or our ancestors did anyway. We simply have to reintegrate it. In doing so, we know we will be producing highly enlightened, educated and moralistic people with solid values of self and life.

    The problem is that, so much of what our people did has been smeared, redefined and presented in a fashion to keep us away from it instead of gravitating to it. So much work, so little time...thank you for your post.
     
  7. uplift19

    uplift19 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I cannot speak on Mormonism and could care less about it. I wonder why you have connected it to the Nation of Islam in your post when they are completely unrelated. Technically, Christianity itself was a small Jewish cult in its infancy. I wonder what the Jews said about Paul and Jesus's disiciples before Constantine spread this new Roman Chrisitianity with the sword.

    Calling Elijah Muhammad a polytheist is completely off the mark. Can it be you do not understand him? Is the so-called trininty not outright polytheism? The belief that God exists in 3 parts instead of 1? Jesus is being proported to be God in the flesh, so I would think you could understand this point. If you are going to argue about Fard Muhammad then maybe you could argue against Jesus. Don't you worship him as a god besides God?

    Elijah Muhammad on the oneness of God:

    "A Muslim is one who believes in One God. It is forbidden by Allah (God) for us to believe in or serve anyone other than Himself as a god. He warns us not to set up an equal with Him, as He was the One in the beginning from whom everything had its beginning and will be the One God from which everything will end."

    If you (I am assuming you are Christian) believe in anything that is in Revelations or any other book with prophesy about the coming of the Son of Man, how shall that happen?


    Elijah Muhammad on the coming of the Son of Man:

    "Here in the plainest words is the Son of Man on the Judgment Day. We are not told by either Moses or Jesus to look for God on Judgment Day to be anything other than man. Spirits and spooks cannot be the judge of man's affairs. Man is material, of the earth. How long will you be ignorant of the reality of God? You are poisoned by the devil's touch. Why are you looking for a God that is not flesh and blood as you are? Spirits can only be found in another being like yourself. What pleasure would you have in an invisible world? And on the other hand what pleasure would spirits have in this material universe of ours? Your very nature is against your being anything other than a human being."


    Here is a quote about the nature of the Spirit of God that may help you understand this perspective (I have also posted this in another thread about Spirit):

    "You who are electricians, you put copper wire in as a transmitter of current, or electricity. The current is greater than that which is transmitting it. The copper can wear out. When the copper wears out, the electricity is suspended until you get another transmitter to transmit that current.

    God conveys His Spirit in the human form. This is the best form. There is no form better that the human form. It is not perfect, but its is a good conveyer of the Spirit of God.

    This Universe is material, but the essence of the Universe is spiritual. The core of the Sun is not fire; the core of the Sun is the thought projected by the Will of God which forms the Sun. When you look at the Sun and are warmed by the Sun; that is a blessing. But to understand why God made Sun, you have to go into the Mind of God, for His Mind is at the core of what He created. But if you do not pierce the veil of the physical, you will never find the essence."
     
  8. Keita Kenyatta

    Keita Kenyatta going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Very nice post, but no, I am not a Christian and could never associate Elijah Muhammad with polytheism. However, please allow me to try and put a discourse on the "three in one" issue. Obviously it was Europeans who did this to our concepts in terms of Our Creator or concepts. The three in one reality does exist on a physical and scientific plane but not on a "spiritual plane".

    Example: Man is decribed as "mind, body and soul" (3 in 1). Time is measured in "past, present and future" (3 in 1) . Our stage in life is defined as "infant, adulthood, old age" (3 in 1). The atom is broken down to "nuetron, proton and electron" (3 in 1). The stages of life have been defined as "life, death, after life. (3 in 1) process. The universe is decribed as "sun, moon and stars", (3 in 1). In electricity we have "negative + positive = energy" (3 in 1). I could go on and on...but the point is that on close examination we can find a divine 3 in 1 pattern.

    However, to try and apply this to Our Creator is crazy. I hope this clarifies my perspective a little more. Peace Brother
    .
     
  9. spicybrown

    spicybrown Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    "The question of even while I ask is obvious to the two of us. Degrees of truth are of evidence of the fruit of the tree. And yes, I as well as you both know that both are cults and false truths…"

    What is your definition of a cult? If both are false truths, then please feel free to bestow some truth upon us so we are not led astray. There is no such thing as a "false truth"
     
  10. uplift19

    uplift19 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I am not sure how this is so obvious. The fruit of the tree of this white man's Christianity is slavery, suffering, and death. I don't know if the word cult applies, but I don't want anything to do with that.

    This also reveals that you are not seeking knowledge nor asking a question, because your premise is that these are "false truths," which spicybrown so eloquently pointed out is an oxymoron.

    Thank you, Keita, for clarifying the nature of creation vs. the Creator.
     
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