Black History Culture : Ancient Black Chinese?

Discussion in 'Black History - Culture - Panafricanism' started by Sun Ship, Jan 9, 2005.

  1. Sun Ship

    Sun Ship Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    This a very interesting web page. Maybe sister sinoping has some perspectives or comments about this article.





    Peace,

    Brother Sun :cool:
     
  2. sinoping

    sinoping Banned MEMBER

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    Absurd. Is this supposed to be a joke?
     
  3. jamesfrmphilly

    jamesfrmphilly going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    so, the studier does not care to be studied! :slobber:
     
  4. Keita Kenyatta

    Keita Kenyatta going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    True indeed. It takes me back to my thread; "Reasons To Know and Fight", which I'm sure they read also. So be it.
     
  5. indya

    indya Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Early migrations out of Africa:

    People first migrated from East Africa around the regions of Ethiopia and Somalia to Yemen, Oman, Southern India, Burma, China, Malaysia, The Philippines, Indonesia, Papua New Guinea, Australia, The Solomon Islands and all the little islands in between.

    The migrations and trade westward by sea started declining only about 11,000 years ago when the world sea level rose, recovering from the last deep marine regression caused by global cooling and the locking-up of water in continental glaciers.

    There were the Northern migrations, from Ethiopia through the Saudi Arabian region and the migrations down the Nile and through the Sahara region.

    Those who traveled over land mixed with other Africans who went through physiological changes as they traveled at earlier periods. Those who made the journey by sea, in one trip, entered foreign lands with the original Black looks.

    Examining the migrations through both land and sea routes will allow for a better understanding of the complex exchanges between groups of people who evolved and continued to evolve while migrating out of Africa. Some groups entered China with their original form and others evolved along the way and entered China looking different to their ancestral form.

    All people on this earth are connected to the indigenous African people and the migrations of people today can be proven not only by examining the historical records but also through DNA studies.




    I think science has proven pretty affectively that humans came from Africa. The people moved north and south and continued to change physically because of isolation and the environment. Kind of helps out "can't we all just get along" since if you go back far enough we all started out from the same group of people.
     
  6. panafrica

    panafrica Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    True indeed Indya!
     
  7. Sun Ship

    Sun Ship Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    It's alright to study Blacks in Harlem...but not in China!!

    sinoping, It's sort of interesting that you came here to study us and when you found out that African Americans were not going to respond to your National Geographic type of observations and sociological probing, you took the humble approach and invoked your Asian sisterhood.

    I wonder if you think, anything you have posted so far, was absurd or a joke? Do you think we are here to just crack jokes? Why is it that, all scholarship and historical documentations by African Americans are viewed as some sort of absurdity and/or full of frivolity (a joke)? Well, like I said to the last xenophobe that came here trying to use this forum as a social laboratory and disingenuously telling us, how much he liked our culture. “you came here to study us, but in turn we are now and have always been studying you”, along with the question of, what valid association do we have with Asian cultures and more importantly, what valid association do Asian cultures have with us?

    Just remember one thing, we were on this planet first...you came from us!

    Now if you have any opposing scholarship or any intelligent responses to the Blacks in China thread then we are waiting to debate. But first, if this excerpt from the article is true, “The skeletal remains from southern China are predominately negroid. (Chang 1964, p.70)” than you probably need to start your discourse disputing the works of this man:


    Dr. Kwang-chih Chang

    K. C. Chang, the late John E. Hudson Professor of Anthropology at Harvard University, was the author of many books, including The Archaeology of Ancient China, published by Yale University Press.


    Here is a short bibliography of some of Dr. Chang’s works:

    Rethinking archaeology (Studies in anthropology, AS6 Random House (1967)

    Settlement archaeology National Press Books (1968)

    Fengpitou, Tapenkeng, and the Prehistory of Taiwan Yale University Press (June 1, 1969)

    Early Chinese Civilization: Anthropological Perspectives (Harvard-Yenching Institute monograph series ; v. 23) Harvard Univ Pr (June 1, 1976)

    Shang civilization Yale University Press (1980)

    The Archaeology of Ancient China Yale Univ Pr; 4th edition (May 1, 1987)

    The Formation of Chinese Civilization: An Archaeological Perspective by K. C. Chang, Pingfang Xu, Sarah Allan, Kwang-Chih Chang Yale University Press (November 1, 2002)



    Also here are the particular references given from the Black in China article:

    Chang, K C , "Prehistory and Early Historic Culture Horizon and Traditions in South China", Current Anthropology 5, no5
    Chang, K C , The Archaeology of Ancient China, New Haven:Yale (1964), pages 359-375.
    Chang, K C , Shang Civilization, New Haven:Yale University Press,198




    Peace,

    Brother Sun :cool:
     
  8. Sun Ship

    Sun Ship Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    The evidence is clear and overwhelming.

    Here are some more, (as sister sinpong would put it) absurdities:

    The songs remain the same
    AsiaViews, Edition:47/I/December/2004

    Over the weekend, the Saisiyat tribe from Hsinchu and Miaoli held its biannual
    events to mourn and celebrate the legacy of the Short Black People, who are thought
    to be Taiwan's original inhabitants


    Link here for full article:The songs remain the same



    Looking after the little people

    Amin is a Saisiyat tribe member who lives near caves said to have been inhabited for millennia by a race of black pygmies

    TAIPEI TIMES
    By Jules Quartly
    STAFF REPORTER
    Sunday, Dec 05, 2004,Page 18

    Link here for full article:Looking after the little people


    After if you have read the Asian newspaper articles...I wonder if these couple of scholarly tidbits found on the web are false:

    statement 1: :D

    Quite a few classic Chinese wrote of "Black Dwarfs" with whom they shared the region. According to Chinese archaeologist Kwang-chih Chang, early skulls found in Southern China bore evidence of "Oceanic Negroid" types. He goes on to state that as early as -221 (the Chin Dynasty), "Negritos whom the Chinese call 'Black Dwarfs' are reported in the mountainous districts south of the Yangtze."


    statement 2: :D

    There are far too many variables affecting societal stability: climate, war and civil strife, leadership, fluctuations in availability of food sources and potable water, disease, natural and manmade disasters. And far too many holes in the presumption of relative homogeneity in other Asian populations -- most notably, China. Actually, there are traces of aboriginal and ancient "Negroid" peoples throughout China and Asia. There are so-called "black Thai" throughout Thailand, Cambodia and Laos, in parts of China, India, who look just like the San bushmen; but, by and large, with straight/straighter hair. Tibetans are quite dark and look very different, generally, from other Chinese. There are also notable differences -- physical, linguistic and cultural -- among other ethnicities in China. Furthermore, it is fairly widely known that Chinese dialects are very divergent from one another. Source material from SPICE, the Stanford Program on International and Cross-cultural Education, states:

    "In China there are many different dialects. Dialects usually refer to 'regional forms of a language.' However, many of the regional variants which are commonly referred to as 'dialects' of the Chinese language are more different from one another than French is from Spanish or Norwegian is from Swedish!"


    Also, if you need more background on Dr. Kwang-Chih Chang this might help:



    Kwang-Chih Chang

    1931-2001

    Kwang-Chih Chang, an anthropologist and archaeologist from China. He is a specialist in Far East Asian prehistory. Mr. Chang was born in Beijing, China. In 1950, he enrolled as a freshman student in the Department of Anthropology at National Taiwan University. Four years later, he completed a bachelor thesis on Lungshan Culture. Chang moved to the United States in 1955.He had the best training opportunity to study anthropology and earned a Ph.D. program at Harvard University. Later, he taught at both Yale University and Harvard from 1961 to 1977.


    Peace,

    Brother Sun :cool:
     
  9. sinoping

    sinoping Banned MEMBER

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    Fine, whatever boosts your ego, brother(s)

    I noticed some people here are too obsessed with the theory "the whole world is spreading propaganda and conspirating and discriminating against us black people. We're the only people who know the truth and we must claim this and that."

    Very disappointing.
     
  10. PurpleMoons

    PurpleMoons Administrator STAFF

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    hmmm. Some people say they want the whole truth, when in reality they only want the parts that benefit their own personal gratifications.

    These Brothers did not have to go out of their way to show you the connection through route of proven history facts. In fact, they welcomed you with open arms in hopes to build a commonailty. If you opposed to their findings, simply state why and back it up with your proof. That is what you asked them to do right, bring proof? If you feel that the proof they have presented is frabrications, then prove it.

    What is so horrible about being connected to the African heritage, that you would immediately rule out any connections? Does it has anything to do with excercizing your use of the race card? Does it have anything to do with feeling above and better than the next race? Or could it simply be the desire to claim something as your very own. If it is such a desire, Sister Sinoping, you still can. The Chinese race have accompished many great things on their own. No one here is trying to take that away from you. All they are saying is, in the beginning their were one race that existed, and that race populated the world. If you have a different theory, than present it. We all know that it began somewhere. Where do you think it began? or don't that even matter to you?

    I have to agree with you on one thing though, you're very disappointing!
     
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