Chief Elder Osiris : An Exchange With Osiris On Reparation / Repatriation, With An Afrikan

Discussion in 'Chief Elder Osiris' started by Chief Elder Osiris, Dec 13, 2006.

  1. Chief Elder Osiris

    Chief Elder Osiris Well-Known Member MEMBER

    United States
    Jan 3, 2002
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    An Exchange With Osiris On Reparation / Repatriation, With An Afrikan

    Elder Osiris:
    As you very well know, I have always shared and supported most of your views about the right of the descendants of enslaved Africans to return to Africa unhindered.
    However, I still insist that you have a number of hurdles to address in your plan:
    i. “I will not deviate from the method already designed for us in how we are to return home, without having to pay a price for Land that already belong to us…” But Africans who reside in Africa have to pay also for the land they use for private purposes. How then do you expect to get free land? From whom?

    Beloved Ojo, like wise, you are one I find myself agreeing with the premise you establish on many issues that you address, so let me see if I can respond back to you inkind with answers to your questions that will no doubt be that which you are not accustom to, yet I will share with you because I respect your inquiry.

    So tell me beloved Ojo, who is it that decreeded that this planet Land is to be commericialized and sold as if the seller hold a deed to this land from that we call God, since you have to answer me Trurthfully by stating no one, then what we need to realize is that we live on a planet where the it be Mighty that Rule and set the requirement for the way we are to live our Life and utalize this Land, fine, that is if we so call Black Afrikans choose to obey and practice the Civil authority of our oppressors, instead of the meekness of our Ancient Ancestors, those we now take pleasure in disrespecting because many of us are totally unaware of the Life we onece lived as was govern by not Man immoral capatalist Law, but by universal Law, implying the behavior of Live and let Live, with an attitude of mutal respect, having no desire to claim owership of Land which is meant for sharing and not sold, creating a system of class, a system that breed Jealousy, envy and deceit.

    Brother what the Afrikan does today in the way of governing, has proven to be the recipe for Afrikans destruction, so do we continue to pattern our way of Life in a way that it produce the result you see of Afrika today, in other word beloved, our Ancient Ancestors had a greater intelligence that forbade them from parcelling out the Land of Planet earth for a monetary price and you wonder why Afrika at the moment, is doomed ?
    ii. osiris quote “Our return must be based on Reparation / Repatriation and the Right to become self govern as the next established State in Afrika, tell me, what is so hard for Afrikans to accept about that?” end.

    Now which ethnicities or nations are supposed to provide this land mass to create another African state solely for returnees to Africa, since all the ancestors of the returnees were not originally taken from the same place or group? What will be the nature of the relationship between this new land of returnees, and the neighboring states?
    Brother Ojo, you are speaking to me looking through the eyes of your oppressors and is exhibiting the Mind which they have implanted in us, look my brother, your question clearly project the True problem of Afrikan people and they all harbor an agreement with that you ask and state of and to me, having no desire to turn to the ways and Life of our Ancient Ancestors, then I say again, woe unto Afrika and theAfrikan People.

    Beloved, you are correct if the present perspective and attitude is to prevail, which you so eloquent expose in your question, which I assume represent the behavior and attitude some Afrikans in Afrika hold toward the Diaspora Afrikan, those here by way of the middle passage, what selfishness which seem to be embedded in your question, so I answer you this way beloved, as I said before, some of us in the Diaspora are not here to beg Afrikans for anything, not even the Land we are heirs to, which is a Land the Afrikans in Afrika have allowed a stranger to come into the Afrikan House and destroy it with divisiveness.
    The Continenent of Afrika did not come into our Hand in parcels, our Enslaved Ancestors was kidnapped not from the artificial Boundary dividing the Continent into little selfish country states, now having our people identifying ourselves by false boundary states and not as a Continential People, your questionable statement beloved Ojo, verify the Distrust and disrespect that come from an Afrikan Mind that believe as you so state in stating that we the children of our Enslaved Ancestors must be put to the task which the devil has created in Afrika and try and sort out where it is our enslaved Ancestors came from and you even intimate that we must adhear to the phony boundaries which was created by a very Lying and immoral Being calling themselves Human and now have Afrikans behaving the same way as you ask me questions that a well mental balance Afrikan would not Think of confronting the Diaspora Afrikan with, after all we have had to contend with away from our Ancestors and now their off sprang Homeland.

    Beloved, I refuse to play such game with any one calling themselves Afrikans, a game that put the responsibility on the Children of the Middle Passage in attempting to figure out where it is that one member of an Enslaved Tribe as oppose to another, was kidnapped from, what is real and True is the fact we all came from that place call afrika and all of those white men made up states in Afrika should be standing in line offering us Land so that we may be able to establish our New State, a move the oppressors most certainly do not want to have happen and now here are some Afrikans proposing such a belittling question that has no creditability that justify the asking, if we use the way of Life of ourAncient Ancestors, those people of whom we know nothing about any more, so we end up using the way of life of our oppressors Ancestors and do so without shame or remorse and you expect me to dignify your demeaning question in open forum, no beloved not I.

    The Children of the middle passage is not to be made to appear as if we are in some desperation to return Home and is willing to do so under such insulting canopy spewing arrogance from the mouth of the modern day Afrikan, as if Afrikans would be doing the Children of the Middle passage a favor without there being a need of reciprocity here.
    iii. Where will these returnees come from – only the ones from the US, or will that new state also accommodate returning Brazilians, Cubans, Jamaicans, etc.?

    Brother our Afrikan Ancestors were not Enslaved according to Tribes, therefore when I speak I speak concerning the Diaspora Afrikan regarding our return, so the choice fall on the Diaspora Afrikan as to their desire to return to Afrika and their concern and how that return is to take place.

    You see beloved I present a plan of how we are to return Home, it become the Diaspora Afrikan freedom of choice to choose or not choose such a plan, but that does not mean that any plan is based on a Plebicite Vote to either approve or reject a plan, it will only show which plan is chosen by each Child of our enslaved Ancestors, such should be the priviledge afforded to us based on the circumstance that have placed us in this condition, without the Afrikan in Afrikan approaching us with the attitude and behavior of the Slave Master.
    The questions you have proposed to me beloved are questions designed by the mental conditioning of us Black Folks in and out of Afrika, by the slave master and I take them to be very westernized captalist insulting, but what value does that hold to the Afrikan Mind that despise the Mind of ourAncient First way Ancestors, in favor of the Mind that have enslaved, colonized, and destroyed an entire Afrika Continent and Afrikan Nation.
    iv. Are there even enough willing returnees to create a viable state?

    Well beloved, when the opportunity present itself, then we will know, wont we.
    v. Your demand “Beloved Afrikan, treat me as your long lost brother, loving me as I love you”, but yet, you are obviously not willing to return to be re-integrated with the family like a truly lost brother returning and willing to be fully re-united with the family, but only with the “the Right to become self govern as the next established State in Afrika”. What kind of love of family is that then, if you are unwilling to return completely to the fold?

    Beloved, obviously you are assuming more than you know what is in my mind, so tell me, would you invite a long lost member of the family to a house you are in constant desperation to find a way to live from day to day without the pain of Hunger?
    Or will you offer land to them to build for themselves with the expectation that if they fair well, they will offer assistence to your house.
    Again I say to you beloved, I will not go into detail revealing what is on my mind in this regard on these forum and if the Afrikan in Afrika choose to cut off the nose to spite the face, then so be it beloved, but such a choice will be to the detriment to all Afrikans every where.
    vi. Who is to pay the Reparation, and who will be responsible for the Repatriation?

    Beloved, who are the designers of Chattel Slavery, when you have the answer to that question, then you will have the answer to the question you now ask of me.
    There are a number of other issues that are still not quite clear to me in your position, Elder Osiris, but I will be content with some form of concrete responses to the above points that I have raised for now. And may I suggest that you do not make things exactly easy, when you have already taken a position you are not willing to negotiate before even coming to the negotiations table.


    Tell me beloved, with whom are we to negociate with in behalf of our Enslaved ancestors, is it the white man, is it our kit and kin in Afrika, is it not a fact we are in the Diaspora at the enslaving of our Afrikan Ancestors ?
    There is nothing to negociate, Reparation is a justified debt owed to our Enslaved Ancestors and if the Afrikans in Afrika is honorable toward the children of our Enslaved Afrikan Ancestors, then they would be willing to confer with us about what happen to our Enslaved Ancestors and listen to us to try and understand why some of us make known our desire to return to Afrika and how we desire it be done.
    Those responsible for our Enslaved ancestors journey to North America as chattel and treated as Slaves, there is a method that must be used in order to be able to be able to collect our Enslaved Ancestors Reparation and the Afrikans in Afrika can play a pivotal role in this action.
    Beloved, I respond to you the best way I know is neccessary for me to respond to your questions at this Time.
    You simply come with a list of demands that are non-negotiable, it would seem, and which you expect to be accepted without any objections whatsoever. Where do things ever work like that?

    Again you are reacting to what I have shared on the issue of Reparation based on what you assume is my intent, while you know nothing about what is in my mind concerning a plan of action in this regard and you do so based on how you have been conditioned to react to the issue of Chattel Slavery of our Afrikan Ancestors and the topic, Reparation.
    Can you them maybe understand what may be “so hard for Afrikans to accept about that” – even those with the best of intentions towards the prospects of descendants of enslaved Africans returning to Africa?
    Yes beloved, I can see very clearly why it is that some Afrikans with preconceived notion of how the issue of Reparation is to be approached, but you see, the position I represent is not out seeking popularity among the Afrikans, when presented in detail it will be meant to inform.
    My action is not based on what you or any other Afrikan may think of what I share on a given topic beloved, you know that, so it is only to make you aware of a given approach on a generally accepted topic of discussion and when the opportunity present itself, then the out come will be based on how well things are understood regarding the more intimate details on the topic under discussion..
    Here Is Loving you

    Chief Elder
    Ire o!
    Val Òjó


    Subject: [True Blackness ] Re: [AfricanTalk] RE: The slave trade and the modern conscience
    The slave trade and the modern conscience
    Hoteph Beloved Sisters and Brothers:
    So tell me beloved, has anybody stop to ask the Descendant of our Enslaved Ancestors in the Diaspora, what is it that we desire of our Ancestors Home Land and family ?
    I am a pride Afrikan and I need not be patronized by any Afrikan or be treated as if I am in need of something I already have, whether it is honored by my kit and kin in Afrika or not, I am already a Naturalized Afrikan of the Continent of Afrika and need not be treated as if I am in need of an Afrikan hand out by the Afrikan in afrika.
    The coming home to Afrika by the Diaspora Afrikan, those in the Diaspora by way of the middle passage, is not to be treated like immigrants, the blood, suffering, and death of our Enslaved An! cestors, give us Natural continential rights to Afrika, more so than anyone that is there without a Natural Continent connection to that land call Afrika and yet you have some Afrikans that will allow those that are members of the AU, and yet has no Natural connection to our Mother and Father Land, to decide whether or not we are to be welcome back with dignity and is playing a part in deciding whether or not we in the Diaspora, children of our Enslaved Ancestors, are to be granted a so call dual citizenship, and as Afrikans.
    No, No beloved, this is not Right nor is it Just, in requiring the children of the Middle Passage to be given Citizen Rights we already inherit from our Enslaved Ancestors.
    Such an act is a direct mimic of the western capitalist approach in their hand me down method of governing, and imposing citizenship upon strangers coming to their land, seeking approval and citizenship by and under the law of civil Naturalization, such a method does not apply to the Afrikan in the Diaspora, here by way of the middle passage, no more than it apply to the Afrikan that was not chose to make the middle passage journey.
    I will not deviate from the method already designed for us in how we are to return home, without having to pay a price for Land that already belong to us, whether those at home in Afrika is capable of recognizing that fact or not, but I will tell you this my beloved, if we are not to return back to Afrika as so verified by the way we left Afrika, traveling the Middle passage, if our Natural Universal Rights are violated and is not honored, then no matter what our Kit and kin does in Afrika, Afrika will continue to transform and dissolve itself into something it never was meant to be and when and if that is allowed to happen, then you will know that Afrika is not Afrika and those that will be visibly in control of Afrika will not be the Hand in which our Ancient First way Ancestors left it to.
    Our return must be based on Reparation / Repatriation and the Right to become self govern as the next established State in Afrika, tell me, what is so hard for Afrikans to accept about that, as the Afrikan sit idly by and allow all of our Northern Land go to some one that Had to Kill and murder our mother and father for and now they are being treated as if they live in a different part of the Continent call Afrika, aswe bow to them, skining and grinning, as if we are so proud of their acquaintence and presence, how foolish have we Black folks become and hateful toward each other.
    Beloved Afrikan, treat me as your long lost brother, loving me as I love you or treat me no way at all, because my Love for Afrika and the Black Afrikan is Pure and can not be bought or bargain for.
    We Can Believe That We Do not Know to be truth, But it is required for Us To Know That Which is True, to do other wise is the action of a Fool, caught up in the activity of the Human Being Mind, A Mind Full Of Mischief, Lies and Deception.-osiris
    The Truth, Black Folks Despise The Truth and we now suffer for being so dis piteous before the World.-osiris
    A Fool can only be convinced by a Fool, but a wise man is aware of them both.-osiris
    The greatest enemy facing black people today is religion and the Satanic Media of america and the western world and running a close third is Black People, an enemy to ourselves.-osiris
    In life there is an internal door way to Truth and Reality and in such an environment, there reside the revelation of the answers truly desired about God, Universe, and the divine Self, the True healer of the Body Life organs.-osiris
    Visit our Web sight at:
    www.fwiamsrm. com and voice your concerns as well.
    The Code, Divine Being, Know Thyself !!!
    How Pitiful And Shameless We Black Folks Have Become In The World Today, Not Knowing Which Way Is And Which Way Is Not, What Is Going and What Is Coming.-osiris
    Let Those Who are Wise Understand What has Just Been Shared With You.-osiris
    In america it should be, it must be for the Black Minds in america, Freedom and not a perpetuation of endless acts of survival, the Divine First Way Nature of Black folks, happ! en to be Freedom.-osiris
    So It Is, And so It shall Be!!!-osiris
    The Truth, The Negro Despise The Truth And Serve to Be a Traitor to The Black Race!!!-osiris
    Beloved, Only The Devil Is Displeased Concerning This Revelation, As I Share With you The Truth, Having No Concern With What Your Behavior Will Be Toward Me, Because I Follow The Path So Charted For Me By Our Ancient Divine Cosmic Ebonite Ancestors, As I Have Only Love For You Who Know, and Know Not.-osiris
    Date, Time And Place can be assigned to Truth and Lies, but Sound Profound Reasoning and Logic, Bed Down only with Truth-osiris
    Remain strong and always be alert, taking no one for granted.-osiris
    Free your Mind and conquer Fear and the Black Divinity will return, bringing the Liberation of the Divine Black so call Afrikan Nation, which is now divided and fearful of God in this life, because of the devil religion.-osiris
    The Truth, Black folks Despise The Truth, Thus serve as a sign of how hateful we are toward the You of ourselves and how well programmed we Black Folks are.-osiris
    I come sharing the Truth not with arrogance, but with the Divine
    meekness so required of me by our Ancient Cosmic Dark ancestors.-osiris
    > The Truth is not to be claimed, it require that it be known and
    understood, relinquishing all irrational emotions, attributes of Lies
    and act of deception.-osiris

    I Will Present The Truth Wherever I Can Get Truth An Appearance,
    Even In The Midst Of Black Folks Fears and Divisiveness! !! -osiris
    > Here Is Loving the Black So Call Afrikan,Even In Spite Of
    Yourselves!! !-osiris
    > It Is Time to Elevate The Truth and Condemn The Lie!!!-osiris
    > It Is The Black Fool That say, I Have Lost Nothing In Afrika!!!-
    > It Is The Fool That Ignore The Truth In Favor Of a Fool!!!-osOsiris

    > Run! Run!, Run Black Woman And Man, Back Into The Safety Of Your
    Divinity!!!- Osiris

    > The Human Being Say God Command, The Divine Say God Reprimand
    > All Respect and Honor to That Black Prophet, The Honorable Marcus
    > Hoteph
    > Chief Elder
    > Sankofa Repatriation Movement
    > Hierophant,Teacher Of Ancient Black Theology
    [email protected]

    "Dr. Valentine Ojo" <[email protected]> wrote:

    Why can't Britain's great estates come clean? The problem is, as it was then, a failure of moral consistency and love of money. The U.K.'s Guardian informed us in 2001 that 11 countries of the European Union were willing to issue an apology for the slave trade. However, Britain, Spain, Portugal and the Netherlands had blocked that decision, preferring the softer word 'regret'. Concerns about money topped morality. To declare that slavery and! the slave trade were crimes against humanity would expose those countries to claims for reparations.
    Even an apology, Blair felt, might have led to calls for reparations. The last leader of government (Bertrand Aristide) to have demanded reparations (from France) was overthrown just two years ago on the 200th anniversary of the revolution that abolished slavery in Haiti. Overthrow was cheaper."
    Subj! ect: [TheBlackList] The slave trade and the modern conscience

    Jamaica Gleaner Online Email Edition
    for Sunday | December 10, 2006
    The slave trade and the modern conscience
    http://www.jamaic! A>
    Robert Buddan, Contributor

    A Jamaican idea introduced by a CARICOM resolution was accepted by the
    United Nations in December designating March 25, 2007, as a day to
    commemorate the end of the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade 200 years ago.
    Jamaica's House of Representatives also passed a bill against modern-day
    slavery or human trafficking this week after signing the international
    protocol in 2002.
    The U.N. Resolution was overwhelmingly adopted by 160 countries. The
    countries of the formerly enslaved in Africa and the Caribbean, and the
    former enslavers in Europe, joined in adopting it.
    The countries hope to begin a process of acknowledgement, atonement,
    healing and reconciliation. They hope to acknowledge that slavery was a
    major cause of the social and economic inequality, bigotry, racism and
    prejudice that affect people of African descent today. They hope
    remedies, recourse, redress, and compensatory me! chanisms will right the
    historic wrongs. And, they hope that the slave trade and slavery will be
    a part of people's education so that something so terrible will never
    happen again.
    The Jamaica National Bicentenary Committee will begin its own process
    with a cultural rally at Emancipation Park on January 2, 2007.
    The resolution and anticipation of it has scored two major successes.
    The United Nations has overwhelmingly endorsed it. The Prime Minister of
    Britain, Tony Blair, has admitted Britain's shameful role in it. Before
    this (February this year) the Church of England had apologised for its
    role in the slave trade acknowledging that the Church "was at the heart
    of it." For those who think it is a thing of the past, the Church of
    England reasoned that, "The body of Christ is not just a body that
    exists at one time, it exists across history and we share the shame and
    the sinfulness of our predecessors."
    Tony Blair, however, ha s been criticised for stopping short of an
    apology. There is clear difficulty in how Britain's powerful estates
    .... Church, State, and Parliament ... handle guilt and responsibility.
    The Church of England has acknowledged shame and offered its apology.
    But it did not propose financial compensation. Mr. Blair, leader of
    Parliament, has acknowledged shame but did not offer an apology or
    compensation. In 2004, spokespersons for Queen Elizabeth, Head of State,
    said tha! t there was nothing to apologise about since slavery was the law
    at the time.
    Mr. Blair now says, to the embarrassment of royal conscience that, "It
    is hard to believe that what would now be a crime against humanity was
    legal at the time." The BBC will not shield the aristocracy either. It
    reported that, "Today many of the great aristocratic families of Britain
    have a hidden past in the slave trade."
    Why can't! Britain's great estates come clean? The problem is, as it was
    then, a failure of moral consistency and love of money. The U.K.'s
    Guardian informed us in 2001 that 11 countries of the European Union
    were willing to issue an apology for the slave trade. However, Britain,
    Spain, Portugal and the Netherlands had blocked that decision,
    preferring the softer word 'regret'. Concerns about money topped
    morality. To declare that slavery and the slave trade were crimes
    against humanity would expose those cou! ntries to claims for reparations.
    Even an apology, Blair felt, might have led to calls for reparations.
    The last leader of government (Bertrand Aristide) to have demanded
    reparations (from France) was overthrown just two years ago on the 200th
    anniversary of the revolution that abolished slavery in Haiti. Overthrow
    was cheaper.
    The 2001 World Conference against Racism, Racial Discrimination,
    Xenophobia and Related Intolerance (the Durban Declaration) obligingly
    refrained from using the word 'reparations'. It used words like
    'remedies', 'redress', 'recourse', and 'compensatory mechanisms', which
    could mean debt relief or trade concessions. The declaration also left a
    loophole by not explicitly demanding an apology. The slaver countries
    had threatened to walk out of the conference otherwise. But the loophole
    left them the opportunity to engage these other compensatory mechanisms.

    Europe has not shown the courage to go this route, even thou! gh it can
    well afford to, and is even morally obliged to provide compensatory
    mechanisms. Europe's enrichment from the slave trade is no longer in
    dispute. Tony Blair himself acknowledged the correctness of Eric
    Williams' thesis that slavery was in part responsible for the wealth of
    Europe and its industrial revolution.
    Britain and Europe suffer from moral inconsistency. Even as Mr. Blair
    was expressing shame over the slave trade he wa! s unveiling a decision to
    spend 20 billion pounds to update Britain's nuclear arsenal. Critics in
    his own party remind him that nuclear deterrence is a relic of Cold War
    policy and that the money could be better spent on new crises like
    climate change and human trafficking. But the war against terrorism is
    Blair's priority.
    Indeed, Britain's policies towards Africa seem more interested in
    containing terrorism than in investing in economic and human
    development. Britain is also complicit in the inhumane secret jails and
    detention without rights being pursued by the Bush administration.
    Britain, the U.S. and Europe remain unconcerned about apartheid-like
    conditions in the Israeli-occupied territories of Palestine, as African
    states, and lately Jimmy Carter, have described these conditions. It is
    difficult to understand the mindset that can moralise about the
    shamefulness of the slave trade while stockpiling enough nuclear
    warheads to blow us all to bits many times over, and supporting
    apartheid, secret jails and torture.
    A Time for Restitution
    Which of Britain's estates can jump-start the country's conscience? Does
    the Church of England have that influence? The Guardian reported a
    Bishop as saying, "The profits from the slave trade were part of the
    bedrock of our industrial development. No one who was involved in
    running the business, financing it or benefiting from its products can
    say they had clean hands." It continued: "We know that Bishops in the
    House of Lords with biblical authority voted against the abolition of
    the slave trade." We also know that the royal families of Europe
    invested heavily in slave trading companies. The real problem these
    estates face is moral failure.
    So have economists and socio-logists. Adam Smith gave pride of place to
    the free market for the industrial revolution. Max Weber said the
    Puritan ethic was beh ind capitalist industrialisation. We had always
    suspected that the free market had only succeeded on unfree labour and
    that the Puritan ethic thrived on an impure morality.
    Britain is consumed with doubts about its national character and finds
    it difficult to admit to moral failure. Probably the churches of Europe
    - the moral estates - should demand that their governments apologise and
    make right for crimes against humanity. It is a grand hope that the
    commemorat! ion of the end of the slave trade might open up a new
    restitutive moral order in international politics.
    States and powerful institutions are being increasingly asked to right
    the wrongs of genocide, slavery, dispossession of territory, enforced
    prostitution, drug trafficking, theft, persecution, war, illegal
    internment, torture, child labour, discriminatory trade, ill-treatment
    of immigrants, and failure to help people in disaster. Is an apology for
    the slave trade too much to start with?
    Robert Buddan lectures in the Department of Government,
    UWI. Email: [email protected]