Black Spirituality Religion : An Apocryphal Discourse on the Horrible Cruelties of the Invading Gentiles...

Originally posted by DreamFunk

...what do you mean by "african source"...???...are you that ethnocentric that you will turn your ear away from the history/knowledge/wisdom of those not like you....???...
  • I think I am well rounded enough that I can answer that question with a hearty no. But in matters of religion and when referencing Africans, I only accept African sources. Our Ancestors recorded many an important event.

    ...from where did that information come...???...that's not true...are you saying that Hebrews were Kemetic...???....being that many of their traditions come from out of Egypt, I can agree in a way....
  • I am not saying Hebrews are Kemetic. I am saying that any the Greeks learned of ritual from the Kemetic. And that there was NO single group of Africans that considered Pigs to be unholy animals in classical civilizations, such as Kemet or any other ancient African community. Logically if central and west africa served as the "mecca" for North and East African theologians, and Pigs were used in ritual in central and west Africa - it would stand to reason that student would follow teacher. lol Pigs were only regarded as filthy because of their early association with a filthy people. The early Arab man that entered as two-bit merchant into Africa.

    ...and the Ancient Kemetians didnt associate the pig with Arabs, where does this come from...???....generally, the pig was associated with their god Seth....the pig was shunned in Upper Egypt (southern), but it was eaten in Lower Egypt (northern)....
  • I simply have neither the time nor interest in explaining why the animal is associated with Arabs or why it was eventually "shunned" as you say. the point is pigs are not considered unholy. Certain people that USED to eat pigs are considered unholy. lol - thus the association. Kemetians would have regarded the pigs in the same manner as their spiritual gurus, the central and western african priesthood - an animal. nothing more, nothing less. Their eventual stance on the animal is not spiritual, it ethnocentric and relates to early arabs.

    ...Arabic Muslims dont claim the works of the Ancient Egyptians....they call it heathen paganism....Arab Egyptians want nothing to do with the the history of Ancient Egypt...
  • lol. Surely you jest. Arabs have always subtely attempted to claim the work of Kemetians. Just as europeans were more comfortable with associated Kemet with Greece and Rome than with central and west Africa.

    ...and the 'Book of the Coming forth by Day and Night' was compiled well before Muslims, Christains, or Jews even existed......anyway, the Ancient Kemetians were VERY xenophobic, they disliked all foreigners....
  • The reason Kemet falled is because they were NOT xenophobic enough. This is a elementary history fact that most beginning students of Kemetic history understand. The Asian hordes and arabs took advantage of Kemet's lax rule on immigration (if i can use a modern term) and used miscengation as a way to slowly take over Egypt when violent means couldnt accomplish the goals.

    ...and if Arabs cared so little about the Kemetians, why would they change their lifestyle by stop eating pork in order to remove the stigma placed on them by the Kemetians...???....anyway, this question isnt even valid because the Arabs didnt overrun Egypt until waaaayy latter on in history (after Greek and Roman rule of the area)....
  • Kemet - cool kid. Arab- dirty kid. dirty kids may hate the cool kids, but they will appease them while they plot their "day on the playground."




    ....so do I and the majority the world...but only scavengers eat anything (look around at the our world)....yes, some societies could only eat what was around them; but we most certainly have a choice....
    .....and that argument of "God made it so I can eat it" is foolish and very childish...

    ...but that is the problem, its not about "holiness" and "unholiness", but about life, health, and order....

    ....life isnt merely about following tradition, but about growth and learning....can the child not be wiser than his/her parent...???...the pursute of Truth and Wisdom should be the #1 priority....unless you are perfect in your ways, blind tradition plus isolation can do nothing but stagnize a people....
  • I dont why you make this comment or its relevance to the conversation. are you implying that growth and learning takes us away from our Ancestral wisdom? lol..if so i feel sorry for you. God gave you through your Ancestors plenty of life lessons upon which you can grow. no need to go outside your own culture for that. that is unless you hate your self just that much. is that it? do you hate being black that much?


    .....no disrespect intended, but do you actually know who your ancestors are....???....your roots may be in Muslim Gambia, or even Christian Europe, let alone the Amerindian presence amoungst some of us.....
  • havent we had this conversation before? yes i do. not only do i know where i am from, i know the EXACT tribe from which my family hails on my father's side. I practice an african religion, so such things are not hard to obtain. perhaps if you returned to your Ancestral ways you too would know from whom you spring.

    I talk to my Ancestors on a regular basis. We dont have any muslims on my mother's or father's side. We were among the Africans that have ALWAYS resisted cultural and spiritual subjugation. I have dont have to "wonder" about such matters. I know for certain. Again, if you returned to your cultural center, such insights about your own family line would be available to you as well.

    .....and let me ask you this, is there anything that you would not eat (if it was generously offered to you)...???....
  • I am vegetarian. The only time I will eat meat is at rituals. There are other foods that I dont eat because of spiritual taboo - out of respect to my brothers and sisters in Nature. These are my own taboos. So yes, there are things that I would not eat no matter how they were presented. But I would never turn down a meal at a ritual. Period. Without exception. If Olodumare/God has decided to share in a blessing, who am I to turn it down?

    HERE ARE MY QUESTIONS TO YOU:
  • why are you so unsure about the intellectual capacity of africans to seek their consul before you believe things you read?
  • why do you hate africa so much that you refuse to try your own spiritual birthright?
  • do you think you are better or smarter than your ancestors?
  • if you had to choose to live like your ancestors or follow a contemporary ethic and they clashed, which would you follow?
  • Do believe that your Ancestors using their own religions developed relationships with God?
  • Do you think the white man did you a favor when he took you away from Africa and your own culture?
  • Do you realize that the number of muslim Africans taken in slavery is dwarfed by the number of traditionalists?
  • Are you ashamed of being African?
 
Originally posted by ifasehun
And that there was NO single group of Africans that considered Pigs to be unholy animals in classical civilizations, such as Kemet or any other ancient African community.
...like I've said before, it's not about "holy" and "unholy"....but off the top of my head, the Lemba of Zimbabwe, and the Ethiopian Falashas dont eat pork...we know the story of the Falashas, but what about the Lemba (which came first, the chicken or the egg?)...???..



Originally posted by ifasehun
I simply have neither the time nor interest in explaining why the animal is associated with Arabs or why it was eventually "shunned" as you say. the point is pigs are not considered unholy. Kemetians would have regarded the pigs in the same manner as their spiritual gurus, the central and western african priesthood - an animal. nothing more, nothing less. Their eventual stance on the animal is not spiritual, it ethnocentric and relates to early arabs.

...what is it about being "unholy"...???...are pigs "holy", if so, by whom..???....when I think of a pig, I think of neither holy, or unholy....I simply see an animal that is meant to rid the Earth of filth, not to be eaten (and you are what you eat, you not only eat the animal, but also the essence of that animal)....

..if you are going to make a claim that has no historical or logical backing, you might want to give some kind of explaination....but I think one of your problems is that you have your dates screwed all up....the pig was shunned in Upper Kemet back during predynastic times....back then, there was no such thing as "Arabs" as we know today (especially not in Upper Egypt)....depending on time period and location you looked at, the role of the pig differed...

...and the pig was associated was their god Set....Set was an "evil" god and was revealed in the form of a pig...



Originally posted by ifasehun
lol. Surely you jest. Arabs have always subtely attempted to claim the work of Kemetians. Just as europeans were more comfortable with associated Kemet with Greece and Rome than with central and west Africa.

...why do you think I'm joking..???...give me an example of Arab Muslims trying to claim the work of the Kemetians...like I said before, Arab Muslims didnt want ANYTHING to do with Ancient Kemetian culture....they called it heathenism/paganism, and wanted to destroy it more than anything...their goal was to wipe it out (as we can see with the Fellahin of Upper Egypt), not claim it....



Originally posted by ifasehun
The reason Kemet falled is because they were NOT xenophobic enough. This is a elementary history fact that most beginning students of Kemetic history understand. The Asian hordes and arabs took advantage of Kemet's lax rule on immigration (if i can use a modern term) and used miscengation as a way to slowly take over Egypt when violent means couldnt accomplish the goals.

....Arab???....the Arabs didnt come on the scene until well after the land had already been conquered and Hellenized...

~330 BC...the Persians were occupying Egypt...the Kemetians then made a deal with the Greeks to get rid of the Persians...so the Greeks invaded Egypt...the Greeks then occupied Egypt for the next 300 years...
~30 BC...Rome invades and captures Egypt...Roman/Byzantium rule of Egypt lasted for the next 670 years...
~640 AD...the Arabs invade and capture Eygpt...Egypt becomes Islamic...

...Arabs didnt "congregate" and go on their tear until after the the birth of Islam...Arabs came into the picture a good 900-1000 years after true Kemetian civilization had been gone...the Arabs were the ones that destoryed the library of Alexandria (they didnt want to "claim" Egypt)...and the Arabs did not "slowly" take over Egypt through miscegenation....the people of northern Egypt had already become "mixed up" because of the 1000 years of European rule (amongst other things), and the Arabs tore through Egypt, North Africa, and parts of Southern Europe and the Indus, there was nothing "sneeky" about it...

...if you have any valid information that goes against this, please share....

...and was Cleopatra black...???...



Originally posted by ifasehun
Kemet - cool kid. Arab- dirty kid. dirty kids may hate the cool kids, but they will appease them while they plot their "day on the playground."

...thats just silly....but like I said above, there was nothing "sneeky" about the Arab takeover of Egypt...



Originally posted by ifasehun
I dont why you make this comment or its relevance to the conversation. are you implying that growth and learning takes us away from our Ancestral wisdom? lol..if so i feel sorry for you.

...no, I dont think that...but you were giving off the impression that you can "get it all" from Ancestors, and I say but only if those Ancestors were perfect...you seem to put your own personal tradition before all else, and I'm saying that those who share with others grow the fastest (unless you yourself are perfect)...

...and what's funny about feeling sorry for someone...???..



Originally posted by ifasehun
God gave you through your Ancestors plenty of life lessons upon which you can grow. no need to go outside your own culture for that. that is unless you hate your self just that much. is that it?

...no, not at all....you are the one that seems to have the complex...slavery/colonialism has messed you up so much that you were/are in search of the "blackest" identity that you can find...

...either that or you're just so arrogate/ethnocentric that you cant stomach the thought of not being "the best"...I had this same conversation with a racist white woman the other day...but this time the ethnocentism is an effect, not a cause...

...but anyway, my #1 priority in life is Truth (which in my eyes includes Peace/Love)...my main intrest may be African centered things, but I will seek and accept Truth/Knowledge/Wisdom from Africa, Asia, or wherever it may come from...dont fight the bigotry of your oppressor with your own counter-bigotry...the complex is in the closed mind and hardened heart...




Originally posted by ifasehun
havent we had this conversation before?

...no, I dont recall.



Originally posted by ifasehun
yes i do. not only do i know where i am from, i know the EXACT tribe from which my family hails on my father's side. I practice an african religion, so such things are not hard to obtain. perhaps if you returned to your Ancestral ways you too would know from whom you spring.
...I know that your not telling me that your family comes from ONE particular tribe...knowing our history in America, I find that hard to believe...or are you not a traditional Afram (any special circumstances?)...???...

....and did you obtain this knowledge of self from technology (blood-work), history (oral or written), or was it by spiritual means...???...I'm assuming solely spiritually...



Originally posted by ifasehun
I am vegetarian. The only time I will eat meat is at rituals.

...no, you are not a true vegetarian then.



Originally posted by ifasehun
why are you so unsure about the intellectual capacity of africans to seek their consul before you believe things you read?

...please dont assume that I'm like others whom you may have came across...I have said nothing that questions the intellectual capacity of Africans (past or present)...



Originally posted by ifasehun
why do you hate africa so much that you refuse to try your own spiritual birthright?

...once again, please dont put me into the same box as others whom you have disscussed this topic with in the past...I have said nothing that gives the impression that I "hate Africa"....I am who I am, and that is all I can be...I am not in search of an identity, and I want and will seek knowledge from the four corners of the Earth....yea, insecurity does cause one to deny self, but it also causes one to be blind to their own faults...



Originally posted by ifasehun
do you think you are better or smarter than your ancestors?

...depends on what Ancestors your talking about...I cant speak on that which I dont know, and neither will I assume...but out of those that I have personal knowledge of, I do believe that I'm mentally better off than those before me...I cant and wont say I'm smarter because they neither had the opportunities or the resources that I have (and I also know the potential/capacity of the black mind)...

...but anyway, I think if the new generation isnt "smarter" than the last, then we have a problem...dont you...??...shoot, my mother prides herself on my mind (lol, she said that my high school degree was HER'S!!!)....dont all loving parents want their children to be "better or smarter" than them....???....I know for sure I would....

...do you think it is wrong or impossible to be "better or smarter than your ancestors"...???...



Originally posted by ifasehun
if you had to choose to live like your ancestors or follow a contemporary ethic and they clashed, which would you follow?

...hypothetical question, but I put what I preceive as Truth/Right/Best before all else...



Originally posted by ifasehun
Do you think the white man did you a favor when he took you away from Africa and your own culture?

...to answer what you're trying to ask, No, I dont think the white man did me a favor...but looking at your question for what it really is, do you think the "you", "me", or "us" would even exist if history would have taken another path...???...I think most likely not....and "YOU" encompasses your MIND, BODY, and SOUL....



Originally posted by ifasehun
Do you realize that the number of muslim Africans taken in slavery is dwarfed by the number of traditionalists?

...true...but that is like comparing Yoruba, to non-Yoruba....were the "traditionalist" all unified and the same..???...no they weren't....estimates say that around 10% of American slaves were Muslim...I dont think that that 10% will be "dwarfed" by any other particular religion...but correct me if I'm wrong...



Originally posted by ifasehun
Are you ashamed of being African?

...no....and please save the guilt trip...


..do you feel a superiority to those that dont practice African Spituality...???....

...were you taught as a child African Spituality, or is it something you pursued on your own...??....and do native-born Africans consider themselves to be "practicing" a religion, or is it just a way of life...???...
 
again, some of this conversation we have had before. you and i, and the board in general. if i am not mistaken it was you with whom i had a discussion about using proper names of kemetic deities and quality of data you use in your historical understanding.

in any case, i stand on all that i said without elaborating.

but on the subject of Ancestors i think it is worth exploring for a bit further.

through spiritual means it can be ascertained what community that your ANcestors call home primarily. yes, you have a mix in you. this is nothing new. as i have said before african-americans have about 2-4 ethnic groups in their spiritual line. your ancestors collectively call one of those the primary source - and that is considered your spiritual and ethnic lineage.

science backs this theory up. you can provide a genetic sample and have it diagnosed. the lab will send you back a statement identifying portions of your identify, but being able to concretely identify what community (tribe) you hail from prodominately. i will have to look the company up that patented the process. i can do that within a few days.

but in any case, regardless of whether this scientific process exists or not - divination, ritual etc do not lie. these are means by which God speaks to you/us. So the science is a secondary source, not a primary one. So i reiterate, i know EXACTLY in africa where I am from. I know that I hail from my father's side spiritually and genetically. I know the role that my family played in the slavetrade. I know how my family came to be in the Americas. I know what karmic debt my family has collectively generated that I and future generations will have to pay. All of this is available in my tradition. Or should I say "our" tradition, but its your birthright as well. The truth as you say - is available by pursuing African means FIRST and then supplementing and learning from others LAST. This is a truth that you resist. And believing it doesnt mean that Africa is better than anything. Its just home. lol

On the subject of African born traditionalists - Those that practice African religions here are in communications with devotees all over the world, including Africa. Each year my faith holds an international conference, and several smaller ones as well as major and minor ceremonies and festivals. In this way we share - and yes, the world religion is used as means of common understanding but a "way of life" is a better term to use. Its just such a cliche these days that it has lost it value for me, so I dont cling to it. I have no particular resentment of the word religion. It has its place too. But if you are asking "are we even connected to those on the continent of Africa?" the answer is yes. without a doubt. Most of spiritual godparents, teaches etc. travel back and forth every year. And many priests from Africa come here to teach, fellowship, etc.. We are very much connected and aside from the obvious cultural differences that come with being born on two continents there is a difference to African custom in most cases and we stand on the same page.

i am no better than someone that doesnt practice african religion. but i am more afrocentric. i know people hate to hear that. but its true. african identity is spirituality first and foremost. and if you arent worshipping like an african than you are 90% in the dark about that identity. (it is what it is.)
 
Islam in Sub-Saharan Africa has known a thousand years of cohabitation with traditional religion and adaptation to it, even to the extent of intermixture. In many areas it has little-by-little substituted itself for it, without too many clashes or ruptures. Today this experience is rejected by a significant number of African Muslims, who instead turn consciously to the Arab model of living Islam, as they imagine it to have been instituted by the Prophet Muhammad and lived by the founding community in Medina. In Africa, perhaps more than elsewhere, the Islamizing tendency - in whatever form it presents itself - is a challenge to an entire way of being, behaving and living in community...a challenge to the very roots of the African way. Can there still he a valid African way of being Muslim or not?

The mass adoption of Islam by the Africans is a relatively recent fact. It was preceded in most cases by a long period of co-existence during which Islam remained a minority religion. It was not the superiority of the religious message of the Qur'an that finally tipped the balance in Islam's favor, but rather purely sociological factors which, as in the case of colonialism and the arrival of modern technology, were completely external and foreign to both spiritual universes.

Traditional African religion, aside from the disconcerting diversity of its actual forms of expression, is in reality much more than (those) in the West mean by the term "religion." It is a global framework of life, encompassing every human situation and governing the whole of society. It is closely linked to the ancestral soil and places each African both in the succession of the generations (the ancestors), in his relationship with his fellow creatures and in his productive activities. Everything is religious!

The direct relation with God is rarely explicit, but the belief in one God, Who is Creator and Good, underlies everything else. God does not intervene in the day-to-day affairs of life. These are governed by other invisible forces, good or evil, from whom it is possible to win favors through the ritualized experience of the ancestors. Strict observation of the rites and taboos, and total solidarity within the group are the best guarantee of group survival and the transmission of life to numerous descendants. Seen from the outside, constraint and fear seem to be the dominant notes of traditional African religion, but this would be to forget that it offers an overall framework of security in an often very hostile environment, where only the survival of the group ultimately counts.

In many regions of Africa, Islam has gradually substituted itself for the traditional religion, sometimes under the influence of external factors and in the overwhelming majority of cases without any violence. One could cite a whole series of factors that show a degree of cultural and sociological proximity between these two religious worlds. But at the same time there are other respects, equally fundamental, in which the two religions seem irreconcilable. Ancestor worship, for example, is something fundamental to traditional religion if ever anything was, and yet it is completely foreign to Islam. The real proximity of Islam with traditional religion lies far more in the fact that both are more than a religion, pure and simple, in the sense of one dealing solely with the relationship of man to the Spiritual.

And indeed, in all the difficulties of life for the African uprooted or disillusioned with his traditional socio-religious universe, Islam offers a new framework, as all-embracing - as secure and as reassuring as the old one. A new solidarity within the Muslim community replaces the village and tribal solidarities without changing the laws and habits of life of the group. New prescriptions and prohibitions replace the old ones, without the need to try and understand their deeper meaning.

The only real novelty is the centralization of the worship of God, especially in the ritual prayer. But this does not exclude other ritual practices from existing alongside - and for a long time - in order to appease the intermediate powers. African Islam has never expressly forbidden these. On the contrary, given the central place of the sacred Qur'anic text in Islam, and the impossibility for most Africans of gaining direct access to it, since they do not know Arabic, the more or less qualified custodians of the Scriptures have themselves become the new intermediaries - sought out and feared - who replace the healers, the fetishists and the other members of the secret societies without which traditional religion could not function.

In the process of Islamization, the primary motive is clearly the desire to belong to a community, far more than the interior assent to a new religious message. In this respect Islam has demonstrated great flexibility and patience over the centuries. Gaining access to the Muslim community has always been very easy: a change of name and the recitation, before witnesses, of the profession of faith (i.e., "Shadâda"). The regular fulfilment of the other religious duties and the deepening of religious knowledge will follow perhaps only a generation or two later. There is no real break in the passage from one community to the other, but simply a progressive disengagement from the one and a progressive integration into the other.

The long cohabitation of Islam with traditional African religion has also had an effect at the cultural level. The African languages are, in general, languages with a concrete vocabulary, rather limited in the expression of more abstract realities or more developed reflections. With the Arabic language Islam has been able to fill a gap. Many African people, some scarcely touched by Islam, have borrowed a complete abstract - and especially religious - vocabulary from Arabic, with no more than the changes proper to the structure of each language. The actual Islamization has come later, confirming and assembling within a coherent structure these scattered modes of thought and expression that were from Islam in the first place. Thus the inculturation of the religious message has in many cases preceded the Islamization itself.

Islam was brought to Sub-Saharan Africa in the first place via the trade routes from the Arab countries and North Africa. The African Muslims have always maintained quite close links with the Arab world, from which a number of reformers came. But Islamization was essentially carried out by Africans themselves, who shared the same life, spoke the same language, lived in the same cultural world entirely. There is no doubt that, for African Muslims, Africanicity and Islam are in no way opposed. For them Islam is not an imported religion. For many, abandoning the Muslim religion is equivalent to the rejection of all their family and tribal traditions, so intermingled are the two socio-religious universes. One must conclude that Islam, in its traditional African form, is entirely a part of the African cultural heritage and thus an African reality...

(Excerpted from Islam in Sub-Saharan Africa, Estella, 1995, pp.121-125)
 
When I first read this, I overstood why the bishops of the Nicene Council in 325 AD refused to include the Books of the Apocrypha in the canonized Bible.

From 2nd Maccabees:

"Not long after this, the king sent an Athenian senator to compel the Jews to forsake the laws of their fathers and cease to live by the laws of God, and also to pollute the temple in Jerusalem and call it the temple of Olympian Zeus, and to call the one in Ger'izim the temple of Zeus the Friend of Strangers, as did the people who dwelt in that place.

Harsh and utterly grievous was the onslaught of evil. For the temple was filled with debauchery and reveling by the Gentiles, who dallied with harlots and had intercourse with women within the sacred precincts, and besides brought in things for sacrifice that were unfit. The altar was covered with abominable offerings that were forbidden by the laws. A man could neither keep the Sabbath, nor observe the feasts of his fathers, nor so much as confess himself to be a Jew.

On the monthly celebration of the king's birthday, the Jews were taken, under bitter constraint, to partake of the sacrifices; and when the feast of Diony'sus came, they were compelled to walk in the procession in honor of Diony'sus, wearing wreaths of ivy. At the suggestion of Ptolemy a decree was issued to the neighboring Greek cities, that they should adopt the same policy toward the Jews and make them partake of the sacrifices, and should slay those who did not choose to change over to Greek customs.

One could see, therefore, the misery that had come upon them. For example, two women were brought in for having circumcised their children. These women they publicly paraded about the city, with their babies hung at their breasts, then hurled them down headlong from the wall. Others who had assembled in the caves near by, to observe the seventh day secretly, were betrayed to Philip and were all burned together, because their piety kept them from defending themselves, in view of their regard for that most holy day.

Now I urge those who read this book not to be depressed by such calamities, but to recognize that these punishments were designed not to destroy, but to discipline our people. In fact, not to let the impious alone for long, but to punish them immediatetly, is a sign of great kindness. For in the case of the other nations the Lord waits patiently to punish them until they have reached the full measure of their sins; but he does not deal in this way with us in order that he may not take vengeance on us afterward when our sins have reached their height.

Therefore he never withdraws his mercy from us, though he disciplines us with calamities, he does not forsake his own people. Let what we have said serve as a reminder; we must go on briefly with the story.

Eleazar, one of the scribes in high position, a man now advanced in age and of noble presence, was being forced to open his mouth to eat swine's flesh. But he, welcoming death with honor rather than life with pollution, went up to the rack of his own accord, spitting out the flesh, as men ought to go who have the courage to refuse things that it is not right to taste, even for the natural love of life.

Those who were in charge of that unlawful sacrifice took the man aside, because of their long acquaintance with him, and privately urged him to bring food of his own providing, proper for him to use, and pretend that he was eating the flesh of the sacrificial meal which had been commanded by the king, so that by doing this he might be saved from death, and be treated kindly on account of his old friendship with them.

But making a high resolve worthy of his years and the dignity in his old age and the grey hairs, which he had reached with distinction and his excellent life even from childhood, moreover according to the holy, God-given law, he declared himself quickly, telling them to send him to Hades. 'Such pretence is not worthy of our time of life,' he said, 'lest many of the young should suppose that Eleazar, in his ninetieth year, has gone over to an alien religion, and through my pretence, for the sake of living a brief moment longer, they should be led astray because of me, while I defile and disgrace my old age.

For even if for the present I should avoid the punishment of men, yet whether I live or die I shall not escape the hands of the Almighty. Therefore, by manfully giving up my life now, I will show myself worthy of my old age, and leave to the young a noble example of how to die a good death willingly and nobly for the revered and holy laws.'

When he had said this, he went at once to the rack. And those who a little before had acted toward him with good will now changed to ill will, because the words he had uttered were in their opinion sheer madness. When he was about to die under the blows, he groaned aloud and said: 'It is clear to the Lord in his holy knowledge that, though I might have been saved from life, I am enduring terrible suffering under this beating, but in my soul I am glad to suffer these things because I fear him.'

So in this way he died, leaving in his death an example of nobility and a memorial of courage, not only to the young, but also to the great body of his nation.

It happened also that seven brothers and their mother were being compelled by the king, under whips and cords, to partake of the unlawful swine’s flesh. One of them, acting as their spokesman, said, 'What do you intend to ask and learn from us? For we are ready to die rather than transgress the laws of our fathers.' The king fell into a rage, and gave orders that pans and caldrons be heated. These were heated immediately, and he commanded that the tongue of their spokesman be cut out, and that they cut off his hands and feet, while the rest of the brothers and the mother looked on.

When he was utterly helpless, the king ordered them to take him to the fire, still breathing, and to fry him in a pan. The smoke from the pan spread widely, but the brothers and their mother encouraged one another to die nobly, saying, 'The Lord God is watching over us and in truth has compassion on us, as Moses declared in this song which bore witness against the people to their faces, when he asked, "And he will have compassion on his servants."

After the first brother had died in this way, they brought forward the second for their sport. They tore off the skin of his head with the hair, and asked him, 'Will you eat rather than have your body punished limb by limb?' He replied in the language of his fathers, and said to them, 'No.' Therefore he in turn underwent tortures as the first brother had done. And when he was at his last breath, he said, "You accursed wretch, you dismiss us from this present life, but the King of the universe will raise us up to an everlasting renewal of life, because we have died for his laws.'

After him, the third was the victim of their sport. When it was demanded, he quickly put out his tongue and courageously stretched forth his hands, and said nobly, 'I got these from Heaven, and because of his laws I disdain them, and from him I hope to get them back again.' As a result the king himself – and those with him – were astonished at the young man's spirit, for he regarded his sufferings as nothing.

When he too had died, they maltreated and tortured the fourth in the same way. And when he was near death, he said, 'One cannot but choose to die at the hands of men, and to cherish the hope that God gives of being raised again by Him. But for you there will be no resurrection to life!'

Next they brought forward the fifth and maltreated him. But he looked at the and said, 'Because you have authority among men, mortal though you are, you do what you please. But do not think that God has forsaken our people. Keep on, and see how his mighty power will torture you and your descendants!'

After him they brought forward the sixth. And when he was about to die, he said, 'Do not deceive yourself in vain. For we are suffering these things on our own account, because of our sins against our own God. Therefore, astounding things have happened. But do not think that you will go unpunished for having tried to fight against God!'

The mother was especially admirable and worthy of honorable memory. Though she saw her seven sons perish within a single day, she bore it with good courage because of her hope in the Lord. She encouraged each of them in the language of their fathers. Filled with a noble spirit, she fired her woman's reasoning with a man's courage, and said to them:

'I do not know how you came into being in my womb. It was not I who gave you life and breath, nor I who set in order the elements within each of you. Therefore the Creator of the world, who shaped the beginning of man and devised the origin of all things, will in his mercy give life and breath back to you again, since you now forget yourselves for the sake of his laws.'

Antiochus felt that he was being treated with contempt, and he was suspicious of her reproachful tone. The youngest brother, being still alive, Antiochus not only appealed to him in words, but promised with oaths that he would make him rich and enviable if he would turn from the ways of his fathers, and that he would take him for his friend and entrust him with public affairs.

Since the young man would not listen to him at all, the king called the mother to him and urged her to advise the youth to save himself. After much urging on his part, she undertook to persuade her son. But, leaning close to him, she spoke in their native tongue as follows, deriding the cruel tyrant:

“My son, have pity on me. I carried you nine months in my womb, and nursed you for three years, and have reared you and brought you up to this point in your life, and have taken care of you. I beseech you, my child, to look at the heaven and the earth and see everything that is in them, and recognize that God did not make them out of things that existed Thus also mankind comes into being. Do not a fear this butcher, but prove worthy of your brothers. Accept death, so that in God's mercy I may get you back again with your brothers.”

While she was still speaking, the young man said:

'What are you waiting for? I will not obey the king's command, but I obey the command of the law that was given to our fathers through Moses. But you who have contrived all sorts of evil against the Hebrews, will certainly not escape the hands of God.

For we are suffering because of our own sins, and if our living Lord is angry for a little while, to rebuke and discipline us, he will again be reconciled with his own servants. But you, unholy wretch, you most defiled of all men, do not be elated in vain and puffed up by uncertain hopes, when you raise your hand against the children of heaven. You have not yet escaped the judgment of the almighty, all-seeing God. For our brothers, after enduring a brief suffering, have drunk of ever-flowing life under God's covenant; but you, by the judgment of God, will receive just punishment for your arrogance.

I, like my brothers, give up body and life for the laws of our fathers, appealing to God to show mercy soon to our nation, and by afflictions and plagues to make you confess that He alone is God, and through me and my brothers to bring to an end the wrath of the mighty which has justly fallen on whole nation.'


The king fell into a rage, and handled him worse than the others, being exasperated at his scorn. So he died in his integrity, putting his whole trust in the Lord. Last of all, the mother died, after her sons.

Let this be enough, then, about the eating of sacrifices and the extreme tortures.'"

(2nd Maccabees 6 & 7:1-42, Books of the Apocrypha)
 

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