Originally posted by ifasehun
And that there was NO single group of Africans that considered Pigs to be unholy animals in classical civilizations, such as Kemet or any other ancient African community.
...like I've said before, it's not about "holy" and "unholy"....but off the top of my head, the Lemba of Zimbabwe, and the Ethiopian Falashas dont eat pork...we know the story of the Falashas, but what about the Lemba (which came first, the chicken or the egg?)...???..
Originally posted by ifasehun
I simply have neither the time nor interest in explaining why the animal is associated with Arabs or why it was eventually "shunned" as you say. the point is pigs are not considered unholy. Kemetians would have regarded the pigs in the same manner as their spiritual gurus, the central and western african priesthood - an animal. nothing more, nothing less. Their eventual stance on the animal is not spiritual, it ethnocentric and relates to early arabs.
...what is it about being "unholy"...???...are pigs "holy", if so, by whom..???....when I think of a pig, I think of neither holy, or unholy....I simply see an animal that is meant to rid the Earth of filth, not to be eaten (and you are what you eat, you not only eat the animal, but also the essence of that animal)....
..if you are going to make a claim that has no historical or logical backing, you might want to give some kind of explaination....but I think one of your problems is that you have your dates screwed all up....the pig was shunned in Upper Kemet back during
predynastic times....back then, there was no such thing as "Arabs" as we know today (especially not in Upper Egypt)....depending on time period and location you looked at, the role of the pig differed...
...and the pig was associated was their god Set....Set was an "evil" god and was revealed in the form of a pig...
Originally posted by ifasehun
lol. Surely you jest. Arabs have always subtely attempted to claim the work of Kemetians. Just as europeans were more comfortable with associated Kemet with Greece and Rome than with central and west Africa.
...why do you think I'm joking..???...give me an example of Arab Muslims trying to claim the work of the Kemetians...like I said before, Arab Muslims didnt want ANYTHING to do with Ancient Kemetian culture....they called it heathenism/paganism, and wanted to destroy it more than anything...their goal was to wipe it out (as we can see with the Fellahin of Upper Egypt), not claim it....
Originally posted by ifasehun
The reason Kemet falled is because they were NOT xenophobic enough. This is a elementary history fact that most beginning students of Kemetic history understand. The Asian hordes and arabs took advantage of Kemet's lax rule on immigration (if i can use a modern term) and used miscengation as a way to slowly take over Egypt when violent means couldnt accomplish the goals.
....Arab???....the Arabs didnt come on the scene until
well after the land had already been conquered and Hellenized...
~330 BC...the Persians were occupying Egypt...the Kemetians then made a deal with the Greeks to get rid of the Persians...so the Greeks invaded Egypt...the Greeks then occupied Egypt for the next 300 years...
~30 BC...Rome invades and captures Egypt...Roman/Byzantium rule of Egypt lasted for the next 670 years...
~640 AD...the Arabs invade and capture Eygpt...Egypt becomes Islamic...
...Arabs didnt "congregate" and go on their tear until
after the the birth of Islam...Arabs came into the picture a good 900-1000 years after true Kemetian civilization had been gone...the Arabs were the ones that destoryed the library of Alexandria (they didnt want to "claim" Egypt)...and the Arabs did not "slowly" take over Egypt through miscegenation....the people of northern Egypt had already become "mixed up" because of the 1000 years of European rule (amongst other things), and the Arabs tore through Egypt, North Africa, and parts of Southern Europe and the Indus, there was nothing "sneeky" about it...
...if you have any valid information that goes against this, please share....
...and was Cleopatra black...???...
Originally posted by ifasehun
Kemet - cool kid. Arab- dirty kid. dirty kids may hate the cool kids, but they will appease them while they plot their "day on the playground."
...thats just silly....but like I said above, there was nothing "sneeky" about the Arab takeover of Egypt...
Originally posted by ifasehun
I dont why you make this comment or its relevance to the conversation. are you implying that growth and learning takes us away from our Ancestral wisdom? lol..if so i feel sorry for you.
...no, I dont think that...but you were giving off the impression that you can "get it all" from Ancestors, and I say but only if those Ancestors were perfect...you seem to put your own personal tradition before all else, and I'm saying that those who share with others grow the fastest (unless you yourself are perfect)...
...and what's funny about feeling sorry for someone...???..
Originally posted by ifasehun
God gave you through your Ancestors plenty of life lessons upon which you can grow. no need to go outside your own culture for that. that is unless you hate your self just that much. is that it?
...no, not at all....you are the one that seems to have the complex...slavery/colonialism has messed you up so much that you were/are in search of the "blackest" identity that you can find...
...either that or you're just so arrogate/ethnocentric that you cant stomach the thought of not being "the best"...I had this same conversation with a racist white woman the other day...but this time the ethnocentism is an effect, not a cause...
...but anyway, my #1 priority in life is Truth (which in my eyes includes Peace/Love)...my main intrest may be African centered things, but I will seek and accept Truth/Knowledge/Wisdom from Africa, Asia, or wherever it may come from...dont fight the bigotry of your oppressor with your own counter-bigotry...the complex is in the closed mind and hardened heart...
Originally posted by ifasehun
havent we had this conversation before?
...no, I dont recall.
Originally posted by ifasehun
yes i do. not only do i know where i am from, i know the EXACT tribe from which my family hails on my father's side. I practice an african religion, so such things are not hard to obtain. perhaps if you returned to your Ancestral ways you too would know from whom you spring.
...I know that your not telling me that your family comes from ONE particular tribe...knowing our history in America, I find that hard to believe...or are you not a traditional Afram (any special circumstances?)...???...
....and did you obtain this knowledge of self from technology (blood-work), history (oral or written), or was it by spiritual means...???...I'm assuming solely spiritually...
Originally posted by ifasehun
I am vegetarian. The only time I will eat meat is at rituals.
...no, you are not a true vegetarian then.
Originally posted by ifasehun
why are you so unsure about the intellectual capacity of africans to seek their consul before you believe things you read?
...please dont assume that I'm like others whom you may have came across...I have said nothing that questions the intellectual capacity of Africans (past or present)...
Originally posted by ifasehun
why do you hate africa so much that you refuse to try your own spiritual birthright?
...once again, please dont put me into the same box as others whom you have disscussed this topic with in the past...I have said nothing that gives the impression that I "hate Africa"....I am who I am, and that is all I can be...I am not in search of an identity, and I want and will seek knowledge from the four corners of the Earth....yea, insecurity does cause one to deny self, but it also causes one to be blind to their own faults...
Originally posted by ifasehun
do you think you are better or smarter than your ancestors?
...depends on what Ancestors your talking about...I cant speak on that which I dont know, and neither will I assume...but out of those that I have personal knowledge of, I do believe that I'm mentally better off than those before me...I cant and wont say I'm smarter because they neither had the opportunities or the resources that I have (and I also know the potential/capacity of the black mind)...
...but anyway, I think if the new generation isnt "smarter" than the last, then we have a problem...dont you...??...shoot, my mother prides herself on my mind (lol, she said that my high school degree was HER'S!!!)....dont all loving parents want their children to be "better or smarter" than them....???....I know for sure I would....
...do you think it is wrong or impossible to be "better or smarter than your ancestors"...???...
Originally posted by ifasehun
if you had to choose to live like your ancestors or follow a contemporary ethic and they clashed, which would you follow?
...hypothetical question, but I put what I preceive as Truth/Right/Best before all else...
Originally posted by ifasehun
Do you think the white man did you a favor when he took you away from Africa and your own culture?
...to answer what you're trying to ask, No, I dont think the white man did me a favor...but looking at your question for what it really is, do you think the "you", "me", or "us" would even exist if history would have taken another path...???...I think most likely not....and "YOU" encompasses your MIND, BODY, and SOUL....
Originally posted by ifasehun
Do you realize that the number of muslim Africans taken in slavery is dwarfed by the number of traditionalists?
...true...but that is like comparing Yoruba, to non-Yoruba....were the "traditionalist" all unified and the same..???...no they weren't....estimates say that around 10% of American slaves were Muslim...I dont think that that 10% will be "dwarfed" by any other
particular religion...but correct me if I'm wrong...
Originally posted by ifasehun
Are you ashamed of being African?
...no....and please save the guilt trip...
..do you feel a superiority to those that dont practice African Spituality...???....
...were you taught as a child African Spituality, or is it something you pursued on your own...??....and do native-born Africans consider themselves to be "practicing" a religion, or is it just a way of life...???...