Black People : African and African-American Struggles - What Made the Difference ?

Discussion in 'Black People Open Forum' started by river, Dec 22, 2005.

  1. river

    river Watch Her Flow MEMBER

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2004
    Messages:
    6,458
    Likes Received:
    1,282
    Gender:
    Female
    Occupation:
    Author
    Location:
    Where the Niger meets the Nile
    Ratings:
    +1,290
    Now we got a thread going about how African American women are different from our sistas in Africa because of racism here in America. The assumption being that there is no racism on the Mother continent. Click over to the Pan Africa forum and you discover that this is not so. So what makes the difference between their struggles and ours? Why were Africans able to maintain family values while we lost them? I think the big culprit for us is the recurrent separations we've suffered since we were first stolen from our homeland. See the pattern:

    1. The first separation from our African roots when we boarded the Good Ship Jesus.
    2. Family members sold away from one another during slavery.
    3. Family members separated when they ran away from slavery. The old could not run so the young were separated from their roots.
    4.Migration from farms and small towns in the south to cities in the north during the industrial revolution. Again the old were left behind and the young found themselves in close quarters with strangers.
    5. Flight of affluent Blacks from the inner city to the suburbs looking for a better (whiter) life and leaving the untalented 90 behind.
    6. Mass drafting of Black men in the white man's wars.
    7. The welfare system which made it more profitable for a woman to raise a family without a man when the men couldn't get jobs and their presence meant she wouldn't get government money to feed the kids.

    All these migrations served to devestate the African American culture and create a more desastrous effect than we would have if we suffered racism in Africa.

    Mere education and a fancy corporate career cannot replace what was lost. We need to restructure and rebuild the human connections. When Black women don't feel threatened, when we don't feel so all alone we are the sweetest creatures God's got.
     
  2. Isaiah

    Isaiah Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2004
    Messages:
    3,210
    Likes Received:
    62
    Ratings:
    +62
    Sister River, you just about covered it, no doubt...

    Listen, anyone who compares our African American women with African women, with or without a historical context for the development of either, is fooling no one so blind as themselves... Even African American women from the south are different from the African American women in the North, much moreso an African or African-Caribbean woman... Their histories and struggles are so much more different...

    Neither the African or African Caribbeans woman had to live in a White Dominated society under laws of strict segregation... None of them lived in a society where they were seen as social inferiors with no rights which were bound to be respected by the dominant class... Those who did, such as in South Africa, have similar problems as we do in North America... Check that out, because folks will find that the use of this term "AFRICAN" to describe all CONTINENTAL AFRICANS is misleading anyway... Each in those countries have different social and cultural experiences, and some have similar experiences as Africans in America... We need to understand that one rule does not apply across the board to all Africans or African Americans... So it is from a false premise that one determines that so-called Continental African women are this way, and all African American women are that.. It's just flat dumb to make sweeping statements like that... JMHO...



    Peace!
    Isaiah
     
  3. Blaklioness

    Blaklioness Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2005
    Messages:
    3,346
    Likes Received:
    1,809
    Ratings:
    +1,812
    Brother....you are making some seriously huge leaps there...not to mention totally false. Is it really your honest opinion that other sectors of Black women have not experienced the foot of nonblack "supremacy" on their necks???? Again...you gotta be kidding me right?? Simply because an oppressor may have a slightly different angle on how they control their subjugates does NOT mean that the oppression doesn't exist. Otherwise, how do you explain how the richest continent in the world could simultaneously be the poorest?? South African women come from a society where they had/have rights that were/are respected by the dominant ruling class???? Sudanese women are watching their people be enslaved, murdered, and oppressed by Arabs TO THIS DAY. Brazilian scholars are still fighting to be heard about the false claims of so-called 'racial democracy' in their country where WHITES still represent the face of the ruling class and where killing squads have slaughtered Black street youth. Black Australian women are still reeling from the direct attempt to kill off their gene pool through rape and the forced removal of their children from their homes. So....uhh....where are you getting your information???....smh....wow....smh. Please go back and read the Sister's comments...I think she was simply distinguishing the oppression....not trying to prove how totally dissimilar we are.
     
  4. Isaiah

    Isaiah Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2004
    Messages:
    3,210
    Likes Received:
    62
    Ratings:
    +62

    Sister BlackLioness, before I start, is this some personal stuff going here???(smile!)

    Firstly, I did not say that the other African women did NOT live in societies where the oppressor was not present, so THAT is your leap into something I didn't even say...

    I said African American Women lived in a society where by LAW(strict social segregation)they were relegated to a 2nd class social status defined for them by master class... I even compared them with South African women, because they, too, lived under apartheid... And I never mentioned South American African Women, because the sister was doing a comparison between CONTINENTAL AFRICAN WOMEN and AFRICAN AMERICAN WOMEN... I went back and read the sister's post, Queen, and this is her quote:

    "Now we got a thread going about how African American women are different from our sistas in Africa because of racism here in America. The assumption being that there is no racism on the Mother continent. Click over to the Pan Africa forum and you discover that this is not so. So what makes the difference between their struggles and ours? Why were Africans able to maintain family values while we lost them? I think the big culprit for us is the recurrent separations we've suffered since we were first stolen from our homeland. See the pattern"


    That is what I responded to... I realize that all African people are oppressed under WHITE SUPREMACY, but our very real experiences under that oppression are different, and thus the response will not be the same... For example, right here in the United States, White Supremacy was expressed differently in the North than in the south... A very prominent example of that was EMMETT TILL's murder... His cousins understood souther "etiquette", Emmett Till did not... He paid for it with his life...

    Regrettably, I digressed from the topic, but my point is that Oppression itself does not elicit the same response... The context and intensity of that oppression will elicit different responses, thus you cannot compare the Continental African experience with the African North American experience...


    Peace!
    Isaiah
     
  5. militant

    militant Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2005
    Messages:
    335
    Likes Received:
    3
    Ratings:
    +3
    Allow me to butt in My brother.
    And what about Black on Black oppression? Like the Ibos cry about in Nigeria? What about the oppression of Africans in Sudan by arabs? i dont know where you are going to with this oppression thing.

    That was almost forty years ago. What you have is white supremacy machine.
    That was just ten years ago. And remember the difference is there customs and traditions were never taken away from them.

    It was a stupid thread by a troll. I BELIEVED SHE GOT MUCH MORE RESPONSES THAN SHE DESERVED FOR SUCH A STUPID THREAD.
    Valid point. The history is different. But there was oppression. In the case of Africa, Europeans USED EXISTING african traditions as institutions on which they built their suremacy. Hence the PERSISTENCE of African traditions. On the other hand, in America, the Europeans thought it was necessary to REMOVE existing traditions to institute supremacy. Supremacy still exists in Africa. Thats why Kenya grows more tea for England than they grow food for themselves.
    Tell me about that. Murdered African heads of states, People on a richest continent reduced to a dollar a day, Making fun of a continent on American National TV daily, how bad could oppression get?


    Comparing intensity of oppression is questionable. As I have given you reasons above. (living on a dollar a day on the richest continent, growing more tea for Queen Mother than food for own country). The way oppression was instigated was different. Even apartheid cannot be compared to American racism. (1) Black South Africans are a majority of population (2) Apartheid did not result in loss of african tradition and customs.
     
  6. Isaiah

    Isaiah Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2004
    Messages:
    3,210
    Likes Received:
    62
    Ratings:
    +62

    Well, alright, then, your last sentence proves my point...

    My only disagreement with you is when you say that Segregation was 40 years ago, and Apartheid was just 10... Brother, the toll of such things live in the minds of people for generations... They are called the vicious cycle in the world of psychology... My mother and father didn't leave segregation behind when they migrated north out of the south... Hell, they didn't leave slavery in the south, though they were both at least 40 to 50 years removed from it! We are 140 years removed from it, and we still suffer it's impact...

    When I speak of intensity and context, I am speaking of African American women living under a system that made their rapings a rite of passage for white boys, and their abuse a rite of passage for African men... Brothers may not like my saying that, and I've gotten into some serious throwdowns with catz up in here, but my reading of history tells me that AFRICA WOMEN in the United States have lived a seriously UNSECURED existence in this monster...

    They were at the mercy of White boys and African men, and THAT is where they have developed their aggressive streak... I don't blame them for that... They were intelligent to do that... Most of us wouldn't be here if they hadn't DONE THAT! THey don't need to be apologizing for having DONE THAT! Anyone chastises them for whom they are, and what they've become, needs to study THEIR history, and stop comparing them to others... Besides, Continental African Women and African Caribbean Women are just as aggressive, because of their own struggles, so the comparison is rife with ignorance... I'm out...



    Peace!
    Isaiah
     
  7. Blaklioness

    Blaklioness Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2005
    Messages:
    3,346
    Likes Received:
    1,809
    Ratings:
    +1,812

    Hey! No brother man...this ain't personal! :) You have to kinda know somebody for it to be personal...besides I NEVER address somebody I perceived to be a serious enemy as 'brother' or 'sister'----NEVER. K? I know we won't always agree on EVERY point, but I feel 'sensitive' to anything that feels divisionary---even if it may not have been intended. We need to step out of the Afro-American box for a minute and see our world community of Black sistren and brothren. Sure we'll have problems that are unique to where we reside, but we should keep educating ourselves about other communities of African people and should never lose sight of our ultimate connection.....dare I see that dirty little "r" word!!?? lol
     
  8. Dual Karnayn

    Dual Karnayn Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2005
    Messages:
    1,221
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +7
    River

    I see you basically answered your own question but for one, most Africans still practice thier very own culture that has been handed down to them for thousands of years.

    They eat the right way for thier bodies AND MINDS to function correctly.
    They practice the correct type of family structure that fits the society they live in, so they don't have the gender and family problems we have.

    Our culture was stripped from us and we basically were left without a culture until we "pieced" one together through different experiences.

    Although they suffered under colonialism like about 90% of the rest of the world, they still are pretty much their own people while we have been totally stripped.

    I also think being mixed with different races like white and Native may have something to do with us genetically that adds to the confusion.
    All those different genes floating around in your body, it has to be hard to identify with one particular race or culture and stick with it.



    I agree with you 100%!

    It's all reactionary.

    I can't ask a Black woman to let her guard down and let me rule her around and:

    a)I don't know what the hell I'M doing, let alone enough to tell her.

    b)I may not be around in her life to protect and provide for her longer than 2 months anyway.

    How can she feel secure in somebody like that?
    I wouldn't put my life in the hands of somebody like that, and I wouldn't expect my sister too.



    We need to practice tried and true methods of uplifting society, then incorporate those methods and values in our culture and begin to heal and build.

    That's why I say instead of pushing university education so much on our youth, we need to focus more on civilization skills like strengthening families, owning our own businesses, acquiring farm land, and learning skilled trades.
    This will allow us to be INDEPENDANT and survive on our own first.

    Then after our foundation has been laid and is solid, we can sharpen ourselves with college degrees in finance, literature, and what-not.
     
  9. river

    river Watch Her Flow MEMBER

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2004
    Messages:
    6,458
    Likes Received:
    1,282
    Gender:
    Female
    Occupation:
    Author
    Location:
    Where the Niger meets the Nile
    Ratings:
    +1,290
    It was not my intention to be divisive or to start a "my struggle is worse than your struggle which is why I'm so messed up" argument. There is no continent or island or sand bar on this Earth where the white man has not brought devestation and oppression to dark-skinned people. I'm not comraring our struggles I am, as sista Blacklionness observed, distinguishing and defining the reasons why our common struggle has led to differing results.

    Brotha Militant made a poignant observation about how the white man used the culture in Africa rather than destroying it as he did to us.

    Brotha Isaiah's observations that there is no clear cut difference between us is also on point.
     
  10. river

    river Watch Her Flow MEMBER

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2004
    Messages:
    6,458
    Likes Received:
    1,282
    Gender:
    Female
    Occupation:
    Author
    Location:
    Where the Niger meets the Nile
    Ratings:
    +1,290
    Check your PM.
     
Loading...