Black People : Affirmative action

Discussion in 'Black People Open Forum' started by afrostotle, Jun 25, 2003.

  1. afrostotle

    afrostotle Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Hello my brothas and sistas of the spoken word. Greetings from Afrostotle.
    The other day as you all may be privy to, the Supreme Court issued a ruling in the case of the student at the University of Michigan, who filed a suit challenging an affirmative action policy allowing more quality points to minority students applying to the law school. This subject is often the issue of hot debates among all color lines, especially black and white.
    I personally feel that the government and the media, be it George W., Fox News, inside politcs or whatever, fuel the dividing flames of this firestorm by insisting on calling affirmative action a "quota". To make matters worse, Bill O'Reily of "the O'Reily factor, had the audacity to imply that AfricanAmericans, whom choose to support affirmative action programs, are being hypocritical seeing as how we want racial profiling when it suits us, but not when ity is used to keep our streets safe. Surely I am not the only one outraged by this particular divisive attitude.

    Peace, Prosperity and Power to all
     
  2. $$RICH$$

    $$RICH$$ Lyon King Admin. STAFF

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    indeed the impowerment move is felt ...
    welcome happy to read u .....................
     
  3. NNQueen

    NNQueen going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Hey Afrostotle,

    Surely after reading through different threads in a variety of forums here, you have noticed quite clearly that no, many of us are outraged, enraged, and engaged in many activities that open our minds and eyes to what's really happening around us, to us and by us.

    The battle against affirmative action is not a new phenomena. It has been going on long before the actual executive order 11246 was finally signed into federal law by Lyndon Baines Johnson in the 1960s. (I believe it was him). The battle began when the Emancipation Proclamation was signed by Lincoln for political reasons and it's been going on and will continue to go on as long as it helps African Americans and other minorities (in spite of the fact that white women have benefitted the most by it's practices).

    Do not for a moment THINK that the one white female student at the University of Michigan acted alone. The conservative republicans are always looking for and creating opportunities to attack affirmative action. The court dockets in almost every state in this country will prove that. States like California, Texas and Florida have been successful in derailing it. The Michigan case is not the FIRST admissions case to make it to the Supreme Court. For example, remember Bakke (medical school admissions) back in the 70s? Many of you weren't around then but I remember, and that case came out of California!

    In terms of the Michigan case, what was seldom highlighted was the fact about the OTHER points that are always given to students who are family of alumni, athletes, and others when considering admission. These points are usually a benefit to white students, but that's not a problem for some people. Remember, the University of Michigan is a private institution and nicknamed "Harvard in the Midwest." It's in a small town not far from Detroit, but it's nothing like Detroit. Upscale, trendy, expensive property, wealthy families--get the picture? It receives major bucks from it's alumni every year.

    Afrostotle, I too saw that episode on O'Reilley's program. It was absolutely sickening, but village idiots open their mouths every day and many actually manage to be seen and heard through television and radio. Let them talk...let them spew their racist beliefs...yes, even he has the "right" to speak his mind. But my premise now is, let's convert the rage we feel into fuel that propels us into a better situation IN SPITE OF people like him.

    The question could now be, should we all stop watching his program to send a clear message to the programmers and cable station that the AA community will not support commentators like that, or is it important to continue to watch programs like that so we always know what our "enemy" thinks? Maybe we already know enough. Maybe boycotting these types of programs is one simple thing we can all do. I don't know--do they care that we are part of their viewing audience or not? By not watching, will it hurt their wallets? Maybe we need to compete by having our own cable station that is broadcast nationally and internationally. Can we find enough companies to sponsor a program for Blacks/by Blacks?

    While we try to decide what to do, (if anything), the fight continues and the point is, now after the Supreme Court ruling, we should NOT sigh a breath of relief. We should not take the attitude that it's back to business as usual. We should NOT assume that the war is over. This is a modern day WAKE UP CALL to those who weren't around when the Civil Rights Bill and laws were enacted. For those young enough to have ALWAYS gone to integrated schools, mixed with students of other races and don't know what it was like before, now you know what it's like not to be wanted in THEIR schools. For those who claim that racism doesn't exist any longer, or have listened to but dismissed their parents who have tried to teach them how to identify racism--what are you thinking now? To those that look at the Supreme Court and THINK they see "diversity" sitting on the bench, check out each justice's record and tell me if your eyes don't deceive you.

    Affirmative action....two words that scare many people. Many don't understand what those two words even mean and why they were chosen to describe something so horribly hienous such as racism. To act affirmatively....to demonstrate good faith in how Black people are treated....to ensure that Black people do not continue to be victims of racist attitudes and behaviors, and treatment like their ancestors did legally. To provide Black people with the same chances and opportunities as white people to live a "privileged" life. White privilege was set as the "norm" in America and the majority of Blacks have always been measured by this standard and have failed the test because of the color of our skin. Many Blacks of mixed races with lighter skin and European features have often opted to "pass" because treatment was better than for their darker hued brothers/sisters.

    Affirmative action is NOT the end all...it's NOT the answer...it's only a temporary stop gap to use until we can do better. "WE" meaning...Black people, and not the kind waiting for the hand-outs and hand me downs by whites who have moved on to something "better."

    When different racial groups talk about equal opportunity, have you noticed how much time is spent debating over the size of a slice of pie. Which group has more opportunities than the other. Instead, have you ever wondered who actually put the pie together in the first place? I think we know, so let's forget about what size slice we get and start wanting to become chefs.

    Peace! :heart:
     
  4. Aqil

    Aqil Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Great post, NNQueen...
     
  5. happy69

    happy69 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Wow my sister Queen,
    Ms. Woman, you make me proud that you are in the Family!

    But what you suggest is in my opinion the right way to do it. Turn O'Reilly and his ILK off/out--- why any thinking Black Man or Woman would watch Fox is beyond me.

    Not that I have not watched O'reilly-- I have a few times... but what gets me is that he makes purely and obviously racist remarks right to the mugs of typically black males--- who sit and coon--- and I wonder what they think that they are getting.

    Not only should we not watch the Fox news channel enmass, we have to stop supporting other Fox networks---Fox Sports--- the Best **** Sports Show is okay, a few brothers got jobs...but we shouldn't watch...FX... well, Orlando - is on now but bye bye...Fox Channel---Bye Bye Bernie and Wanda and Ced....

    We have to choose between a mere few of us having jobs, and our God-given Pride.

    And I'll be honest with some of you. I don't think that we need Affirmative Action... Yes, it has opened doors for some of us... but it is "We" who had to go through those doors and perform. I wanted Af-Act to win because I felt that the lawsuit was racist-- when I looked at the number of whites with lower grades than the plantiff that got in-- it was almost 2,000... and it was almost a thousand Asians.... and when it came to Blacks it wasn't even 50 not 40....
    I felt that it was Bush and people like him White and Black and Other... acting on their racist tendencies--- ooops I forget, Racism doesn't exist.

    But, I feel that you Must have the credentials to do anything that you want to do. Yes, Affirmative Action opened the door for all of us-- including the majority to go to school; but I had more than what was needed to get in--- a very high gpa, high act scores, magnet school education (which is just a social status contest at it's core)... so I had what I needed. If you want to end Affirmative Action--- give everybody an equal playing field... uniformed education= bring all schools up to code; make uncertified teachers equally distributed through out the states (b/c I think that someone can be uncertified and still be **** good--not all); root out and get rid of those who are just there for a paycheck and doesn't care.... I think that History should be conclusive, not changed, because I rather enjoyed the propaganda.....and because I think that we can as a community get our organizations and our churches involved in the teaching of us; who we are and what we do and have done--- which is so much--- My family did that for me... and you wouldn't believe the pride and reinforcements it can and does give to your life.
    (Who is Kevin and Kerwin Owens?)

    We have to get back to the work or getting to work for us and ours... There will always be white supremists out there... and as recent history has shown their ranks are stocked with Blacks, Hispanics, Asians, Indians, etc....IF OUR FOREMOTHERS AND FOREFATHERS MADE IT--- WE CAN OVERCOME IT...
     
  6. NNQueen

    NNQueen going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Hello Anaksanamun and welcome!! :wave:

    I really enjoyed reading your post. You have described an interesting and thought-provoking vision. I'm not sure how realisitic it is though because in that scenario that you described, you don't exclude anyone which means that our oppressors are included.

    If that's the case, I think that history has proven time and time again that they are not a group that likes to share power and they always want to be at the top calling the shots.

    Can all groups of people be at the top of the social heap? Must there always be a vertical or pyramidal hierarchy in society and never flat or horizontal? Why must we act like we're in a barrell climbing over each other or even pushing each other up? Very often I've used the term "uplift" but now I think you've inspired me to take a second look at what that word/concept really means. I understand clearly what we're fighting against, but what is it exactly that we're competing for?

    Nevertheless what you convey certainly gives one hope that at the very least, we can all pull together to help each other by killing racial poison.

    Peace and good post! :)
     
  7. afrostotle

    afrostotle Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Peace to both ANAKSANAMUN and NNQUEEN, and the entire forum. I've enjoyed the argument you made. It sparked multiple flames within me, regarding a variety of issues concerning the success, or lack thereof, of Blacks in this country. As a student at Gonzaga University, and campus is without color to say the least, (except for the b-ball team of course). Anyway, I often have extensive and intensive conversations with fellow students and instructors, in which I find myself having to explain, denounce, or defend everything from blatent racist stereotypes, to credit that should be given its due. As an older, adult student, I feel qualified to do so. I try not to speak for all black folk, because I truly don't know how everyone feels. I do however, feel that there are deep rooted feelings and experiences we share by nature of who we are.

    This morning I had one of these discussions with my Ethics instructor. During which he asked the question most of get asked, "why can blacks say that word and whites can't or shouldn't.

    I found myself having to explain to someone who should be considered an elder, common sense about the roots of this word. Can any of you share some wisdom with me, and give your feelings on the question. I hope not to offend anyone, of course anger, or not wanting to dignify it with a response might be the first if not the best answer, but I have trouble explaining my feelings without anger sometimes. Somebody help a brotha out..........

    Peace, Prosperity, and Power to all.
     
  8. NNQueen

    NNQueen going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Yes, Anaksanamun, the concept sounds promising, but at the risk of sounding pessimistic, I have to respectfully question the possibility and probability of a NEW Black Society ever being realized, and whether those of us here now, will ever witness it in our lifetime. Your ideology is hopeful, but unless we tackle the psychology behind our present condition, how can we ever achieve it?

    Please give some examples of actual things you think we need to do to battle oppression and win our freedom. If we are exhibiting the same attitudes and behaviors of our oppressors, how do you see us functioning as a people in order to begin laying the foundation for a new Black society?

    Afrostotle, I understand your frustration with even having to have that conversation. The only response I can think of that would address such a question is a simple one and that is, two wrongs don't make a right! No wisdom involved, just having a real understanding of the word and speaking the truth to anyone who asks.

    Peace! :heart:
     
  9. NNQueen

    NNQueen going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Great reply!!

    Anaksanamun, I enjoyed reading your post. The example you gave in answer to my question was powerful and inspiring. I have another question though.

    What exactly do you mean when you write, "remove ourselves from the midst of the oppressor and remove the oppressor from our midsts?"

    What is your vision on how you see us becoming like-minded and organized enough so that we can come together? Does it start in places like this where discussions take place and people meet? Or does it have to start on a different scale?
     
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