Black People : Accept White Support-Ever?

Discussion in 'Black People Open Forum' started by Bisabee, Jun 5, 2006.

  1. Bisabee

    Bisabee Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    This question came to me as a result of a comment that Brother O made in the Hip Hop thread about how Black hip-hop artists couldn’t get support/promotion from the Black community in the beginning but were able to get whites to promote them.

    Suppose you are a highly creative and ambitious Black person with a great idea for a product (ex. FUBU, hip hop) who cannot get other Blacks to invest in your idea/product or support you—due to whatever reasons: jealousy, fear, lack of knowledge, lack of money, self-hate, etc. whereas you are easily able to get whites, Asians, or others to see the merit in your idea/product and invest money and promote, or support you, do you reject their money or support, knowing that your idea will wither/die or do you accept it, knowing that your idea will be compromised, but will grow and make money?

    This is a crucial question because this is where some Blacks are at this morning. If they accept the support of these others and "move-on up", they're often considered sell-outs by the Black community whereas if they don't, most often too many of US absolutely won't support them and thus they don't succeed at all.

    From my observations and readings, I’ve determined that some Blacks are able to leap (not just walk) forward despite racism, but find it extremely difficult to find other Blacks to support them due to many of the reasons that are discussed here. Often other Blacks are even afraid of this type of Black pioneer and will in some cases try to destroy them. What does a forward-thinking Black person like this do? Please respond in a constructive way.
     
  2. panafrica

    panafrica Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    In my opinion in order for this question to be examined in a proper perspective, distinctions must be made between individual progress and the progress or advancement of the black community at large. In addition differences in temporary and permanent support should be made as well.

    P.S. The belief or opinion that white support helped lauch black Hip Hop artist because they lacked support in the black community is extremely questionable.
     
  3. Bisabee

    Bisabee Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Thanks for your response. I don't know anything about the beginning of Hip Hop, but I did see a program on TV some years ago about the 4 young Black men who started FUBU in Queens, New York. They said they couldn't get the support they needed to launch their line from other Blacks. Eventually after going to all kinds of venues, they attracted the attention of Asian (koreans?) investors who heavily invested in their company. The only thing is that, of course they had to give the Asians a large chunk of the decision-making in the company--but the Black guys still had most of the control at that point. I don't know what may have happened in the last 5 years, but I'd bet any amount of money that their original idea has been compromised because the Asians will be trying to make as big of a profit as possible vs promote the social advancement of Blacks.

    This makes me wonder whether Blacks should be capitalists at this point. On the other hand, can we afford not to be in a capitalist-driven world? Just thinking out loud here.

    In terms of individual vs group progress, are you suggesting that a Black person should possibly not accept a move or make any decision that would advance their individual interests if it might set back the group's interests? If so, I'm sure you're aware that this has MAJOR implications insofar as EVERYTHING that we do.
     
  4. Omowale Jabali

    Omowale Jabali The Cosmic Journeyman PREMIUM MEMBER

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    "From my observations and readings, I've determined that some Blacks are able to leap (not just walk) forward despite racism, but find it extremely difficult to find other Blacks to support them due to many of the reasons that are discussed here."

    Sister Bisabee, here we go again and I ask that you not take my response PERSONALLY. I must admit that my phone stays off most of the time these days because some folks are just str8 up LOSING IT while I continue to MOVE FORWARD AND NOT LOOK BACK!

    Again, "observations and readings" are one thing. FIRST-HAND KNOWLEDGE THROUGH EXPERIENCE are entirely something different that "observations and readings" have no comprehensive KNOWLEDGE of since most of the time these observations lead to false generalizations, assumptions and incorrect conclusions, and many readings are also based on the forementioned.

    On the other hand, first-hand knowledge through experience leads be to relize that since most successful FORWARD-THINKING BLACK PEOPLE tend to break from the familial and communites which BIND THEM AND HINDER THEIR PROGRESS, the "lack of Black support" no longer is an issue!

    This is what I am presently EXPERIENCING!

    What happens is one wishes and desires out of a love for one's people and a sense of loyatly to family and community, oftentimes one's contributions and sacrifices are not recognized, acknowledged or appreciated and this goes much deeper than a "lack of support". It goes deeper than self-hatred because one may have MUCH LOVE for self and family-community-nation but this LOVE is not reciprocated. And, oftentimes, folks have opportunity knoking but HOLD-OUT for that famil-community-Nation "support" and LOVE which nevers arrives so they finally decide it is time for CHANGES...

    I was listening to the Steve Harvey Show on the radio this morning and they were talking about Oprah and some criiticism of her from 50Cent and Ice Cube. Very Interesting. Steve, who knows all three, was speaking about how Oprah has developed over the years a specific demographic she has to cater to because this has been her "support" all these years and Cube and 50 represent "artists" which she felt would alienate her demographic so she declined to grant them interview or appearances on her show. Steve stressed that Oprahs demographic was "Over 50 white women".

    Now compare this with Tyra Banks, who has a similar demographic only in the sense that hers are women, but younger and "multi-ethnic". Yet, Tyra has succeeded in her "home base" (similar to Oprah in Chicago) where Tyra organized and sponsored the T-Zone foundation assisting young women of color in inner city schools...a summer camp program, of which one of my best friends (Nosizwe Chimurenga) was a counselor, the Dean at the school I worked (Quiana Patterson) who also sponsored a dance team, ORGANIZED students (including some of my own) from our school to attend...yet, I dont think I need to go into detail concerning what happened to T-ZONE...

    So, in answering the question, "What does a forward-thinking Black person like this do" let me reiterate...when speaking for the need for UNITY...COALITION AND COMMUNITY BUILDING...and WORKING TOWARDS SOLUTIONS...continues to fall on deaf ears and goes unheeded, especially when one is PERSONALLY ATTACKED IN THE PROCESS...the "forward-thinking" BLACK person maintains a sense of who they are, lives TRUE to their aspirations and does like the Biblical LOT......you MOVE ON....and DONT LOOK BACK!
     
  5. Omowale Jabali

    Omowale Jabali The Cosmic Journeyman PREMIUM MEMBER

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    "The belief or opinion that white support helped launch black Hip Hop artist because they lacked support in the black community is extremely questionable."

    It is only "questionable" to those OUTSIDE the "hip hop community"

    Chuck D, one of the most "revolutionary" hip hop artists got off the ground in college hooking up with Rick Rubin...

    Afrika Bam's "Zulu Nation", internationally has more recognized "white" members who are responsible for establishing most of their "chapters".

    In fact, wanna know how this "Zulu Nation" is being built?

    On white owned (Rupert Murdock) websites such as myspace.com where Bam spends a lot of time posting "add friends bulletins" that are commonly referred to a "wh*re trains"...!.....and in the meantime and in-between times he posts blogs of a political nature which go unread with little to no response to the "science" that he is constantly dropping...

    As I stated earlier in another thread, a native American brother sent me a link to a video that Tupac made shortly before his death in which he predicted that "When I die most of my fans will be "white" folks"....

    This is another one of those circular discussions among the "intelligensia" that has close to zero experience to even argue a reality which is beyond their specific knowledge or frame of reference...how can some of you continue to SPEAK ON THINGS YOU DO NOT KNOW.....yet...I am told I am the one who "has no clue".....lol!

    :time:

    Negroes are STILL Afraid of Revolution and dont know what TIME it is!
     
  6. I-khan

    I-khan Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    It depends on what "Hip Hop community" you are reffering to,the mainstream or the underground? I do not think it is a matter of "white support" in our affairs in this world, I think it its a matter of how much $$$ they can make off of our creations. Focusing on how much support we get,whether they really care or not, from other people than ourselves is a double-edged sword of sorts.One aspect possibly looked over in this discussion ( I read all the posts) is our own inadequacy in supporting our own in every aspect,we do not do it enough simply because we are divided and those of us with the resources (black millionares,etc) are not that connected as to what to do and what not to do with us as a whole in the world.

    He was partially correct, I was a fan of Tupac but because of my "young" age at that time I was not allowed to hear much of him.Anyway, the record label he was with(Death Row if I am not mis-taken) was part of a deal where they were getting paid by Interscope( if I am not mistaken).

    To broaden the picture here,we can say "support your artists" etc, but at the end of the day,the white owned labels will make more $$ than the artist.

    WE cannot truly support each other if we do not control the means we use to support each other with.
     
  7. Bisabee

    Bisabee Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Brother O, I bow to first-hand knowledge and experience any day over observations and readings. I am unable to get much of the former and thus rely mostly on the latter. I realize however, through my observations, readings, itty-bitty experience, and intuition that I’m picking up on “something” and this is why I’ve posted this thread in order to explore it. I would suppose that some others out there are experiencing this too on some level.

    I would imagine that many Black people are at this point today.

    Like you say, if a person’s own family-community-nation refuses to appreciate, acknowledge, reciprocate or support their contributions and efforts for whatever reason, this presents a major dilemma for some Blacks. I read and hear about this quite a lot. It cuts to the bone and it’s like a fork in the road. Some Blacks decide to move on and not look back as you suggest and are accused of being "sell-outs," others move forward but feel lots of pain because they don’t want to leave their own behind, and others decide not to move forward even though they can. An example of this last group would be very bright Black students who refuse to academically excel because this would take them away from their less capable peers, so they “dumb-down” on purpose. My daughter (a school nurse) says this happens a lot. Can you imagine that--students failing on purpose, in order to have friends and be accepted by those of less ability. I wonder if any young people like this will regret this later on in life. I would imagine they would.

    Anyway, I think this is going to be the major issue of the future for Black people and it will cause separation between those who want to and can move forward and those who don’t believe forward movement is possible, or who for whatever reason, are uncomfortable or lack the confidence to do so.
     
  8. I-khan

    I-khan Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Omowalejabli,


    I know this is not directed at me,but I get where you are comin from.


    Are you saying that there is a lack of appreciation,it is true that love for each other is not a one-way street.It is similiar to one soldier fighting an entire battle alone,not because of the other soldiers laziness,but lack of unity and apathy for the inspection of a larger picture.So when the individual soldier makes strides of progress,nobody cares.

    Lack of unity and comprehension of differences+lack of individual acknowledgement of others=lack of appreciation and the break away from the group that lack unity as such in the first place.

    I know the key phrase is DONT LOOK BACK because if that "forward thinking
    black person" does not look back then:

    1) They may be percieved as going out on an individual basis,but really had the entire PEOPLE in mind,but since unity lacks the entire PEOPLE do not benefit directly.

    2)They continue to try and create a solution to many different problems in their own methods since they were ignored(in essence) with the group,as since their is a disagreement as to what solutions may be, some conflicts may arise.


    Negroes are afraid since they are still on the plantation,Black/AFrikans in the world are not,we are awake but lack the resources to uphold our revolution and maintain a defence agains the common enemy (of all backgrounds whom are against us) since the Negroes are the ones who have the majority of the power (we need more people like Robert Mugabe in this world,despite his humane "flaws") in our political maze built by the oppressor.
     
  9. jamesfrmphilly

    jamesfrmphilly going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    i will accept any support that i can get.
    send those checks and money orders........
     
  10. I-khan

    I-khan Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Lets not let this flow into a "debate" since there are a myriad of ways we can get out of our current world situations,but only one cause for it to be based on (pan-afrikanism), I hope this grows into a comprehension of both of our perspectives,since we have to know each other and ourselves to work together.


    Identifying the problem is one of the first steps to solving it, we have identified much of our problems,but solving them will need to be a collective effort,a collectivity that we lack,overall,in this world today.

    As Che Guevara once said:"Nothing brings a people together than a common enemy."
     
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