Africa : A New Africa

zuleilah2

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Oct 10, 2003
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P. 2

You cite…2. Malicious self-interest at the expense of the supposed beneficiary.

And go on to say…Documented history has taught us that nearly every interaction between the Continent and the white world has ultimately resulted disadvantageously for Africa. How a three-thousand year paradigm could've been reversed in the last half-century is beyond me.

Z: Nearly but not ALL. In your opinion, which interactions have proved to be advantageous to Africa? And as a side note…keep Liberia in mind.
Then ask yourself…Is it possible some CAs are remembering the history of this colony and asking themselves whether such could happen again and, therefore don’t want to have anything to do with AAs?

You said…If we agree that Africa harbors a wealth of non-human resources, then what does the world give to Africans, at home and disparate, that we cannot create ourselves?

Z: How can Africa create anything if the best and brightest are forced to flee their countries due to political upheaval and weak economies which makes it impossible to support their families?

You said…If white doctors have created a white medical system based on a white world view and white definitions for white people, why then shouldn't Black doctors create a Black medical system based on a Black world view and Black definitions for Black people?

Z: Could you define what you mean by a “white world view” and “white definitions for white people”?

And what would a “Black medical system”, “Black world view” and “Black definitions” look like?

You said…If it is true that white supremacy is the bedrock on which all white definitions rest, then the best one can wish of the continued interaction of Blacks and whites in a world where whites unequivocally lead is a corp of blacks leading blacks armed with the definitions and tools they learned from a system that is fundamentally opposed not only too their interests, but worse, to their very existence. The sum of the scenario is not at all unlike the state of things at present: white people thinking they're helping Black people by telling them at every possible juncture that the way to success is to be less Black, and a considerable Black middle class who's material success runs parallel with the abdication of their Blackness - and not only their ideological Blackness, but in many cases their phenotypic Blackness as well. So we need help, to be sure. But we are not the children to europe's able-bodied adult. If at present we are lying prostrate, then we need Black Mothers and Black Fathers to teach us how to sit up Black, how to crawl Black, and how to walk Black, so that we might one day go out into the world and shape it in our own image.

Z: What is the bedrock on which all African definitions rest? Identity.

CAs are not two souls battling in the same body. They don’t need help shaping their image. They KNOW who they are. Their cultural upbringing has been in an environment of Blackness – Black role models in the highest positions. This is one crucial way that they differ from AAs – for example. They have not had to ‘prove’ they are just as good as white folks. They KNOW they are better than the white man and no one can tell them any different. The also know that the colonial mentality still plagues some of their brothers and sisters but refuse to allow it to make inroads into their own consciousness. So it is with us. Some of us make it despite the machinations of the white man.

Believe me. If African leaders want the white folks or any other folks out, then they will be run out. Remember Idi Amin? And if the CA in the street or the village is fed up with his leader, then he’s run out too – if he’s not killed first.
 

zuleilah2

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Oct 10, 2003
74
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P. 3

You said…It seems that our basic disagreement is the level at which major sociopolitical changes occur. You suggest that Africans, and on the Continent particularly, must address a myriad array of disparate issues as prerequisite to a singular African purpose. This method, though, is idealistic, too locally oriented, and has no historical precedent.

Z: I stated on an earlier thread that CAs identify themselves as, for example: Yoruba-Nigerian-African-Black. Ethnic identity is paramount. CAs prefer to be called by their ethnic group name and/or where they are from. Some CAs will even be offended if you call them African. Generally, Black nationalism/Panafricanism is only understood – accepted – cared about by those who have received Western educations. The “singular African purpose” is to “take care of my group (tribe) first.” That takes precedence over anything else, especially in politics.

You say this “method” is idealistic?

Z: What is the reality on the continent? Why aren’t the countries, themselves, united?

You say “too locally oriented”?

Z: Group (tribal) identity rules on the entire continent.

No “historical precedent”?

Z: What does recent history tell you about ethnic issues on the continent?
You said…Hitler didn’t launch his revolution locally. He created a rhetoric that defined every issue affecting teutonic life as subordinate to the assumption of racial and cultural supremacy. The disarming and political decline of two states (Germany and Japan), the political ascension of another (the US), the political restructuring of the whole of Europe, and even the creation of an entirely new state (Israel) all resulted as direct correlatives of Hitler’s obtuse – and arbitrarily chosen, by the way – central thesis. Two basic ideas affected the reality of all our lives, Sister or Brother: the primacy of the aryan race and teutonic culture, and divisive presence of jews in a tuetonic- and aryan-bent global paradigm.

Z: It is the primacy of the African ethnic groups and the growing gap between the HAVEs and HAVE NOTs that is creating the divisiveness on the continent. All Africa’s troubles can’t be laid at the white man’s door. All AAs troubles can’t be laid at the white man’s door. It’s way past time that both parties start taking more responsibility for their actions and realize how these actions impact on the community-at-large.
 

zuleilah2

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Oct 10, 2003
74
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P. 4

You: I am not so short-sighted and callous as to suggest that the daily lives of Africans at home and disparate are unimportant, or that the complexity of our multiple realities can be reduced. But it must be understood that this grass-roots method of progress is in fact nowhere known to have changed the world. We WILL NOT WIN THIS WAR if we aren’t willing to soil our purity and suspend our considerable intelligence. We’re trying to fight hate with love and idiocy with nuance. This simply won’t work.

Z: Change starts at the grass-roots level. Look back at the history of AAs in America. Look back at grass-roots movements elsewhere in the Diaspora.
Change starts with one voice which multiplies into many – from the bottom up - the grass roots.

You said. The emergence of African leaders whose work undermines African interests is not coincidental. Africa produced these men – they have African Mothers just like everyone else from the continent. It seems simplistic, short-sighted, and cliché to say only that a nation’s principal problem is Bad People; for, if the extermination of Bad People were the key to a nation’s material success, the united states of america would today have almost no white people, and after killing off the considerable numbers of bad blacks, Africa would magically rise to greatness.

Z: I listed several problems that are causing Africa to not realize her potential – not just “Bad People” – not just African or white.

You said… the question is not, “how do we rid ourselves of bad people,” but, “WHY are they working against the interests of that which created them?”

Z: Greed...Selfishness...(fill in the blank).

You said… and also, "how is it that Africans exist who seem to have little regard for African life?"

Z: Such is the nature of man – imperfect being that he is.

Makes you wonder if women could do a better job.

You cite…1, Africa gave us everything we have, and ALL issues are subordinate to ensuring her continued existence and her re-emergence as a sovereign, self-defined power.

Z: Which issues are subordinate? And in the meantime, in what way will Africa help herself?

You said… and 2, that as Brother Chancellor Williams notes, “the whites are the implacable foe, the traditional and everlasting enemy of the Blacks.” Also, every African in the world still lives under an imperiallist regime. We have ALL been colonized. We talk, walk, learn, work, think, and often try to LOOK white. Is it any suprise then that many of those who presume to lead us - always fed a white world history at white educational institutions, and often intellectually reared by whites - don't think any more of us than our white educations teach us to?

Z: Chancellor Williams doesn’t speak for the entire African Diaspora. Not ALL of us are interested in grinnin’ an’ skinnin’, shuckin’ an’ jivin’, tippin’ an’ tappin’ for the white man and shadowing his every step.

As far as education…

It’s the individual’s decision to make up where the white man’s education fails or demand changes. And if you don’t like the white man’s education – then form your own schools.

You said…As you noted, I said that all the products of Africa are linked by a common set of interests and values, not by nationalism or a panafrican world view. These are not quite the same thing. Also, by uneducated I don’t mean to suggest invalid. Each of us has gaping holes in our knowledge of at least some issue that directly informs our lives. For Africans, PanAfricanism is merely the most pressing. I don’t think it can reasonably be argued that an African who doesn’t understand her very basic common interests with all those who look like her is a fully confident, conscious, in short, educated human being. Survival is an irreducible problem to be sure. But if one isn’t privy to the limitations a continuously polarized sociopolitical dialogue places on one’s OWN existence, then I fear one is doomed to spend one’s life ONLY surviving.

Z: No, they aren’t the same thing. These ideologies aren’t generally accepted, understood or cared about by the average African. His ideology is based in his group identity.

So to say that Africans are somehow “uneducated” because they don’t subscribe to your way thinking is a bit arrogant…in my opinion.

Africans already KNOW who they are. They think of themselves as SUPERIOR and the white man as INFERIOR.

But on the other hand...actions DO speak louder than words.
 

zuleilah2

Well-Known Member
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Oct 10, 2003
74
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P. 5

You said… Sister or Brother, there are certain truths and realities that simply cannot be disputed. That the situation of all Africans, at home and disparate, will not improve without a common interest and singular focus is one such notion.

Z: What truths? What realities?

You said…Because this is irrefutable, discussion is merely a rhetorical exercise. When a living thing teaches me, I might question, but I cannot argue, because it is at that point that she ceases to teach me and I presume to teach her. If in this realm she sees further than I, then why am I arguing?

Z: All people have different viewpoints based on their experiences and their educational leaning. The world is big enough to contain more than one, monolithic way of thinking.

You said…If one is only trying to prove who knows more about a particular problem, then one might as well resolve one’s self to inertia, because one will never learn that way. Again, that’s the opposite of learning. To fear being called unknowledgeable when one very clearly knows little is to confirm one’s own fear.

Z: Travel is the best education. Experience is the best teacher. The proof is what you see with your own eyes and hear with your own ears.

You said…Africans all over the world almost reflexively sit back and shut up when a wazungu speaks, but when one of our own ilk presumes to guide us, we all want to chime in with corrections, amendments, even outright degrading. If every time the Father said go the Mother responded with, “why, how, you’re wrong,” and, “no,” the family would either starve, or lose a member essential to its prosperity. This is what’s happening to Africans all over the world. We are dying, and instead of picking one solution and sticking to it, we keep talking ad nauseum.

Z: Opinions will always be challenged – even those of “wazungus”. That’s the nature of discussion. How boring life would be, if everyone thought alike and acted alike – like sheep. We are not ALL like children at the white man’s knee.

You said…Also, the ethnic, cultural, political, and personal cleavages you cite are not exclusive to Africa. The arab world, europe, far east asia, and the latin world are all rife with the same hurdles.

Z: Isn’t Africa the topic here? Aren’t these “cleavages” causing her to not realize her potential?

You said…If it were clear that the products of a particular lineage were repeatedly and consistently hostile to one’s interests, one might think twice about allowing a child’s life, especially at such a vulnerable moment, to hinge solely on the character of such an individual. Also, white folks extending what they call help to black folks is nearly as old as white folks killing black babies for sport. But as I suggested before, it is still white help they’re giving, and more ideal alternatives exist. Where my own health is concerned, if at all possible, I leave only the most rudimentary care to white people. I want to be touched, cared for, and healed by one whose experience favors as close as possible my own. When I cry out, when I can’t find the language to voice my concerns, when the problem affects not only my body but my spirit, it is that much more likely that she will understand and adjust her methods accordingly.

Z: Don’t let your hatred of white folks cloud your common sense.

You said…President Nkrumah was a great man, but I just can’t reconcile this statement. What is good faith, and do whites with African citizenships conform to that definition? Whites have almost no reason to take up extended residence on the Continent other than willful self-interest which is always at the expense of Africans. A white business man who goes to Africa knows that, because of exchange rates, he will almost certainly be classified as upper-class, he will have no reasonable competition in his local market, and worse, his status as upper-class and white will be regarded with deference almost anywhere he goes.

Z: If you think he is such a great man, then why are you questioning his ideology?

You said…Have you ever heard of a poor white African? These people aren't citizens, they're an imperialist ruling class.

Z: Have you ever heard of rich Black Africans? They ARE citizens and members of the elite ruling class and, it’s more of them than white folks in most of Africa.

You said…Is this dude white? If he is he’s at least uninformed and likely lying. If he isn’t, he’s at least optimistic and likely naïve. In the middle ages western europe was in constant upheaval, its people were inert, and cannibalism was prevalent. After more than a thousand years of systematically pillaging, raping, robbing, and launching mass genocide on the americas, the Africas, the arab world, and the far east, western europe and its satellites control the greatest bulk of wealth of any contingent group in the world. THAT is a revolution. And contrary to what frantz said, that liberation struggle not only legitimized race, color and ethnicity as constituent elements of progress, but employed them as its basic impetus.

Z: Why didn’t you look up Fanon before offering up an opinion on him?

You said…Also, all Africans are still colonized, if mostly indirectly. So, if by quoting frantz you mean to suggest that Africans need to adopt a universally inclusive sentiment before launching our liberation struggle, then I think perhaps you’re reading our hand as considerably stronger than it is. We are the world’s underclass – how can we presume to be charitable? We have nothing we can afford to yield.

Z: You are what you think you are. Not all share your opinion.

Unity (community) is one of the ideals of Panafricanism.

If one in your community is in need, shouldn’t you extend a helping hand?
 

zuleilah2

Well-Known Member
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Oct 10, 2003
74
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P. 6

You said…Also, what kind of liberation struggle is it when the revolutionaries are seeking the assistance of their captures? Malcolm said something very similar about Dr. King’s march on washington. If we’re marching hand and hand with those who are responsible for our discontent, then we can forget it.

Z: Who in their right mind would seek the assistance of those who hate them. Was Dr. King and his supporters walking hand-in-hand with those who were oppressing us? Does this make sense to you?

You said…You said…Also, in Black American communities, we’ve an adage that goes something like, “you’re gonna have to be twice as good to get half as much.”

Z: In MY Black community, we were told…”You are just as good as the white folks and don’t let nobody tell you different. Get yours – no matter how long it takes!”

You said… In the current global paradigm, the same holds true for the ENTIRE RACE. Africa – the monolith, the idea, the world power – cannot afford to be just like everybody else because everybody else hates us.

Z: What a defeatist attitude. I disagree. You don’t mimic those you hate.
You said…The only hope, I fear, for the Continent is that she grows so imposingly and impregnably strong that the world either follows her lead or perishes. Or do you believe, Sister or Brother, that after 3000 years of idiocy, the white world has, since the late nominal liberation of South Africa, finally grown a brain? Do you also believe that the white world, in light of its new found clarity, will idly abide a strong Africa, one that threatens european homogeneity and global control? If so, I deeply admire your optimism.

Z: IF Africa becomes strong then she will garner the same amount of respect and instill the same amount of fear as Europe and America.

I asked…

Quote:

I’m curious. Do you also find it demeaning for those of another color to help the poor and needy Black folks in our own communities and in the African Diaspora?

You said…Yes. We should be helping ourselves.

Z: But in the case of our own communities – we aren’t helping ourselves enough to make it unnecessary for people of another color to come in and do for us what we should be doing for ourselves.

Why?
 

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