Discussion in 'Black People Open Forum' started by Keita Kenyatta, May 6, 2006.
I got the data on this subject:http://www.africawithin.com/kwaku/afrikan_involvement.htm
Whenever they say "data" or "facts" it is always lies that follow it. Let me start by debating this. I agree that Africans were involved in slave trade, but not nearly as exaggerated as your links claim. Infact intra-african slave exchange was more than that done with the Europeans, and infact the Europeans tried to tap into the intra-african market. It is when the demand for slaves increased that the Europeans forsook trade and aggressively raided and kidnapped Africans.
It is funny your article mentions my ethnicity, which is the Yorubas. They should have asked me first.
Now My questions:
(1)Is every single black person in the Americas, a descendant of slaves sold by africans?
(2) Assuming trade of slaves largely contributed to what the slaves in the Americas, then my next two questions are:
(a) Who were the ones involved in such a trade, and was the average African (siblings of slaves included) any more responsible than you are responsible for the invasion of Iraq?
(b) Were the ones involved any worse than the Jews who betrayed their fellow Jews during the holocaust? (Since it is being implied that black people have a monopoly on betrayal)
Thank you brother I-khan! These are excellent LINKS!!!
I'm forwarding these links on to all the young folk in my family.
I especially liked the following on preparation for exams...
Brother militant, you should take the time to go through the chain of links on the whole site...there is some outstanding information contained therein and presented in a very well organized and digestable format.
Given the content on so many historical matters other than african involvement in the slave trade, with so much info from Clarke and others, its hard to conclude the site is anything but a tremendous resource.
WHo is "they",you mean white people or the black people that run the site I linked above?
Have you read those links,they have excellent explanations and balanced data that show how much some of the leaders were controlled by outside influences for example:
True,those articles and others tell of this.
These are not "my articles" they are links to other peoples,the articles claim there is "adequate evidence citing AFrikan control of the trade" but the questions pertaining to it (such as: how long?to what extent?how did foreigners play in this?etc) are left out for some reason.It bogles me that a small nation could have control over the entire system that led to the Americas were the nations had no control at all.
Now My questions:
Sold by afrikans:no.Slaves:largely but not all are descendents of slaves.
That is the thing,the "average African" had almost nothing to do with the trade unless living in the same nation counts as being a trader .What "they" want you to think is that some of the African kings,merchants,and hired (by euros) kidnappers said "Hey mr.whiteman come and buy my nephew!!" but that assumption is totally wrong.The ones involved were , for much of the trade,not kings at all but hired merchants and sometimes warriors looking for power and a place to expand themselves.THe ones that were involved and had power were corrupted and such,I reccomend this book:http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/08...104-3758112-9356731?s=books&v=glance&n=283155
To put our holocaust on a scale and say "the ones who betrayde us were better/worse than the Jews involved in the holocaust in Europe" would be an oversimplification of our complicated situation.THe Holocaust in Europe was started in Europe,ended in Europe,controlled by Europeans and ended by Europeans.
Our Holocaust was not started by us,as research shows that once the Arabs/europeans arrived then "domestic slavery" became at an all time high as a result.Our holocaust was upheld for hundreds of years (and continues in E.Afrika) by Euro/Arabs and a few individual Afrikans that were born around the time of the trade and decided to become traders(raiders) themselves, I once again recommend the book above for a deeper look into one of the cultures involved(Anlo Ewe) and use that as an example to compare to all the others.
Okay, brother Kemet, I read the article, and based on these statements, I must say that I understand where brother Militant found it difficult to digest...
"A couple of additional points to be addressed are the Arab slave trade in Afrika, occurring almost 1,000 years prior to the European slave trade, and continues even today, and continental Afrikan slavery, which was part of the culture, but more humane and unlike the chattel slavery of the United States. In Afrika, slaves were still human beings. In the United States, slaves were property. The cold reality, Afrikans controlled the capture of other Afrikans, initiated several wars and raiding parties to secure captives, set prices for buyers and even extended credit to Europeans for the purchase of Afrikans.
One prevailing and probably wishful sentiment on the part of many is that Afrikan rulers did not know what type of slavery they were selling Afrikans into. A view dispelled by the fact many rulers knowingly went to war with their neighbors, killing millions and destroying entire communities in order to capture fellow Afrikans for sale. Maintaining power, expanding the economy, greed and expansionist ambitions were the prime motivating factors.
There is no way anyone can defend or justify Afrikan involvement in the slave trade, other than acknowledge that it is one of many historical facts that must be faced.
It is mandatory to look at the mistakes of the past so as not to duplicate them again. There are several people of Afrikan descent psychologically and culturally involved in the negative, anti-Black philosophy of western culture. They would turn against other Blacks at the drop of a dime, especially if they felt it would curry favor with their European companions, and often add to their pockets. It is essential to examine the slave trade, in order to understand the same behavior operative today."
I agree that we must take responsibility, as African people, for our participation and contributions to the so-called Atlantic Slave TRADE, wheere nothing was traded between us an Europeans except our African bodies, but we don't do ourselves any service by exaggerating our participation by saying:
"...The cold reality, Afrikans controlled the capture of other Afrikans, initiated several wars and raiding parties to secure captives, set prices for buyers and even extended credit to Europeans for the purchase of Afrikans.
One prevailing and probably wishful sentiment on the part of many is that Afrikan rulers did not know what type of slavery they were selling Afrikans into. A view dispelled by the fact many rulers knowingly went to war with their neighbors, killing millions and destroying entire communities in order to capture fellow Afrikans for sale. Maintaining power, expanding the economy, greed and expansionist ambitions were the prime motivating factors..."
Afrikans CONTROLLED the capture of other Afrkans, and set prices for the buyers??? Yeah, how long did that last??? The "myth" that Afrikan rulers did not know what kind of slavery they were selling other Africans into is dispelled because the knowiingly went to war...killing MILLIONS...? REALLY? Where is the proof of this??? This almost reads like a propaganda piece for White Supremacy, in that it is filled with truths, half-truths, and outright lies... There is no proof provided for these statements, yet they are presented as though the documents are right there before our eyes... That's Orwellian, doublt-think type stuff, and I don't buy it...
Ironically, I was all set to come down on brother Militant for what appeared to be his dismissal of Africans participation in the so-called slave trade, as "...not nearly as exaggerated as your links claim" I said, 'okay, here come all the copouts and excuses we Black folks are so notorious for when the history doesn't favor us...' That was until I read the article... Fact is, we have to admit that we were involved as stated, but we have tell the truth about the extent to which we were involved, as well... As brother Keita was pointing out, we cannot just allow the European to say, in effect, 'you people were responsible for what we did..." I mean, they DID something, too, and it was cruel, evil, mean, and barbaric... That's the other side, and few of them rush off to admit to that, therefore they shouldn't be telling us, or our children the story, their story...
So, yes, and unequivocably YES, Africans particpated in our own demise, and are still doing so - even as we BLAME the hell out of others for keeping us pinned to the mat like we aint got arms, legs, nor a brain to get them up off us... (We just so powerless, and wounded, and hurt, and victimized that it's just hopeless unless these folks VOLUNTEER to allow us to flip them over, and dominate them for a few thousand years...) But we have to be balanced in our telling of the story, which is what I believe brother Keita was aiming at...
They had no "complete control" but only fought alongside (and were supplied by) foreign Arab/Euros.To say this or the opposite would be to simple in such a complicated situation.
The complexity/contradictions of this statement in the article is that on the same website this is presented:
When Nigeria's Madame Tinubu, herself a slave-trader, discovered the difference between domestic and non-African slavery, she became an abolitionist, actively rejecting what she saw as the corruption of African slavery by the unjust and inhumane habits of its foreign practitioners and by the motivation to make war for profit on the sale of captives.
Those may be valid points brother Isaiah, but I don't have enough background on the specifics of African involvement with the slave trade to refute or confirm them. Further, it's not really a big issue for me, so I doubt I'd spend the time trying to dig into it.
But out of curiosity, do you have documentation that quantifies how many africans were killed or captured by other africans, since you seem to know with certainty this site is exaggerating?
I did spent quite a bit of time going through ALL the other information presented on the site, which led me to conclude it's a tremendous resource for any black person, irrespective of the accuracy of the one page in question. I personally didn't see anything on the site providing ammunition to white supremacy, quite the opposite.
Did we sell ourselves into slavery? hmmm
I hope i make sense.
I believe whites came to Africa to do "business"
And whites have always said Africans sold themselves into slavery
to make themselves look "clean"
I also agree Africans were involved in slave trade, but we did this with great pain
and shame. How could we refuse to do it when they had better weaponery than us.
How could we refused to do it when we had no other option than to join them raid
other towns and villages.
Yes, Tribes in Ghana who were defeated by the British were forced to sign an undertaking
saying that they would provide slaves and gold in order to live peacefully.They had no option than
to also raid less-powerful towns to come up with the slaves and gold. So i say we were a part of it.
We didn't do it willingly, we were forced to.
Some whites don't deny the fact they were the people who brought abut slavery, but say, their ancestors
didn't own slaves. But aren't they the same people who are reaping the good seeds that our ancestors planted
many many years ago. So wheather their ancestors did own slaves or not, they are a cause of what happened to us
happening to us right now.
I therefore urge all blacks not to beat themselves down just for the fact that we played a part in slavery, but we
should also not help them in their cry.
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