Black Spirituality Religion : Free Will in Heaven?

[houserunner]

Christians often explain why God allowed Adam to sin by saying that without freewill it would be impossible for man to truly love God and of course, a freewill meant the possibility of sin. But this raises the question will humans have freewill in Heaven? If so then the same possibility of sin will exist. What will the consequence be for those who sin in Heaven? What were the consequences tor the angels that sinned?

If true love and joy could not exist in Eden without freewill and the possibility of sin then it cannot exist in Heaven. In fact, there will not only be the possibility of sin but it is probable, even inevitable that many humans will sin in heaven.

Every human who goes to Heaven will know at least one person who did not make it. A spouse, a parent, a child, a friend. The book of Revelation tells us the smoke of their torment will go up before the Lord forever. For the humans in Heaven this will be a constant reminder of something sinister in God. This will be worse than slavery. The African slaves could not choose their actions and were often forced to smile at the most gruesome treatments but at least they had the privacy of their own feelings and thoughts. In the presence of a God who knows our thoughts before we think them we won't even have that. We will be like zombies. If we have any freewill at all we will seek to be free. The evil of rebellion is not in the rebel but in the tyranny that makes rebellion necessary.

Some may be tempted to say that we will be so grateful for the sacrifice of Jesus that we won't want to rebel. Sacrifice alone cannot sustain gratitude. If anything, sacrifice with strings of obligation attached to it evokes resentment.

The smoke of the torment of our loved ones will go up as an eternal reminder to us of what will happen if we sin. Gratitude cannot be sustained under threat.. Gratitude and love will die and in their place will arise fear and hatred of this massa who cannot be resisted. Our fear and hatred will be known and surely punished. Since there will be no more sacrifice for sin the only punishment will be eternal damnation. The only way God can avoid eventually having to **** the entire human race is to take away our freewill.

It doesn't help to say that we will be perfect beings who won't have a sin nature that can feel fear, resentment and rebellion. The angels who rebelled in Heaven, not just the ones who rebelled with satan but also the ones who in Jude left their first estate and married human women, were not descendants of Adam and had no sin nature but they did have freewill. Paul tells us we will be like the angels. If the angels could rebel then we will be able to as well. Again, if God is able to let us have free will but still keep us from rebelling in Heaven then he could have done it in Eden and he could have kept the angels from rebelling. If we resort to the God can do anything answer we defeat the God had to allow sin answer.

What was the count on the actual amount of people over the course of the year on the planet that will actually be saved and reside in Heaven when it is all said and done (entered in the Book of Life)? 250,000 or so? I am asking truthfully since it has been a while since I had read the Bible. Anyway, I know it is extremely minuscule to the amount of people that would have grace the Earth in all its years of history. So basically since the percentage that will actually reside in the Kingdom of Heaven will be extremely small, those that will reside in Heaven will have to follow how things must be or be "programmed" not to veer in a different direction.

I may be wrong on how many will be saved, but I thought it was close to this number. If I am off, then please let me know. I am not going to lie and say I read the Bible everyday, but have read it in the past a couple of times.

 

[Blaklioness]

I think what is needed is to turn this thing over on its heels---to find out what's really going on. I done cursed out God/the Creator, etc. on a number of occasions and have not felt one ounce of guilt about it and will continue to remain guilt-free. I figure if the ugliness of this world can be permitted, then She/He/It can just learn to deal with it---after all, if the ugliness is permitted regardless, then what's going to happen in the face of rebellion?--Apparently nothing that hasn't already. I realize my perspective will be seen as unconventional and even heathenistic---I don't care. What may bring relief for those who might be concerned is that I don't think that this foolishness is necessarily condoned by the Creator---that much of it is about what we have allowed and tolerated, especially in allowing others to define our relationship with the Creator/ the One. When we are permissive to that extent, then they take our power--which means our TRUE freedom to make untainted, empowering, responsible choices is taken away. We need to define what IS true instead of always relying on others to define it for us. We need to put guilt in its PROPER place--that is where the true power and free will exists.

Christians often explain why God allowed Adam to sin by saying that without freewill it would be impossible for man to truly love God and of course, a freewill meant the possibility of sin. But this raises the question will humans have freewill in Heaven? If so then the same possibility of sin will exist. What will the consequence be for those who sin in Heaven? What were the consequences tor the angels that sinned?

If true love and joy could not exist in Eden without freewill and the possibility of sin then it cannot exist in Heaven. In fact, there will not only be the possibility of sin but it is probable, even inevitable that many humans will sin in heaven.

Every human who goes to Heaven will know at least one person who did not make it. A spouse, a parent, a child, a friend. The book of Revelation tells us the smoke of their torment will go up before the Lord forever. For the humans in Heaven this will be a constant reminder of something sinister in God. This will be worse than slavery. The African slaves could not choose their actions and were often forced to smile at the most gruesome treatments but at least they had the privacy of their own feelings and thoughts. In the presence of a God who knows our thoughts before we think them we won't even have that. We will be like zombies. If we have any freewill at all we will seek to be free. The evil of rebellion is not in the rebel but in the tyranny that makes rebellion necessary.

Some may be tempted to say that we will be so grateful for the sacrifice of Jesus that we won't want to rebel. Sacrifice alone cannot sustain gratitude. If anything, sacrifice with strings of obligation attached to it evokes resentment.

The smoke of the torment of our loved ones will go up as an eternal reminder to us of what will happen if we sin. Gratitude cannot be sustained under threat.. Gratitude and love will die and in their place will arise fear and hatred of this massa who cannot be resisted. Our fear and hatred will be known and surely punished. Since there will be no more sacrifice for sin the only punishment will be eternal damnation. The only way God can avoid eventually having to **** the entire human race is to take away our freewill.

It doesn't help to say that we will be perfect beings who won't have a sin nature that can feel fear, resentment and rebellion. The angels who rebelled in Heaven, not just the ones who rebelled with satan but also the ones who in Jude left their first estate and married human women, were not descendants of Adam and had no sin nature but they did have freewill. Paul tells us we will be like the angels. If the angels could rebel then we will be able to as well. Again, if God is able to let us have free will but still keep us from rebelling in Heaven then he could have done it in Eden and he could have kept the angels from rebelling. If we resort to the God can do anything answer we defeat the God had to allow sin answer.

 

[river]

What was the count on the actual amount of people over the course of the year on the planet that will actually be saved and reside in Heaven when it is all said and done (entered in the Book of Life)? 250,000 or so? I am asking truthfully since it has been a while since I had read the Bible. Anyway, I know it is extremely minuscule to the amount of people that would have grace the Earth in all its years of history. So basically since the percentage that will actually reside in the Kingdom of Heaven will be extremely small, those that will reside in Heaven will have to follow how things must be or be "programmed" not to veer in a different direction.

I may be wrong on how many will be saved, but I thought it was close to this number. If I am off, then please let me know. I am not going to lie and say I read the Bible everyday, but have read it in the past a couple of times.

I know the bible tells us the names of those who are saved are written in the Book of Life but to my knowledge the contents of that book are unknown. At least, I've never read or even heard of an earthly coopy of this book.

In the Book of Revelation it speaks of 144,000 saved from the Earth being called to a specific task. The Jehovah's Witnesses teach that these are the only people who will be saved. Problem is they are all Israelites and all male. and all viargins. That leaves me out no matter what I choose to believe or not believe.

 

[Destee]

Actually Jesus said the kingdom of God is within. That means if we are not happy within there is no magical place we can go to be happy.

Very Powerful Words Sister River ...



Destee

 

[river]

I think what is needed is to turn this thing over on its heels---to find out what's really going on. I done cursed out God/the Creator, etc. on a number of occasions and have not felt one ounce of guilt about it and will continue to remain guilt-free. I figure if the ugliness of this world can be permitted, then She/He/It can just learn to deal with it---after all, if the ugliness is permitted regardless, then what's going to happen in the face of rebellion?--Apparently nothing that hasn't already. I realize my perspective will be seen as unconventional and even heathenistic---I don't care. What may bring relief for those who might be concerned is that I don't think that this foolishness is necessarily condoned by the Creator---that much of it is about what we have allowed and tolerated, especially in allowing others to define our relationship with the Creator/ the One. When we are permissive to that extent, then they take our power--which means our TRUE freedom to make untainted, empowering, responsible choices is taken away. We need to define what IS true instead of always relying on others to define it for us. We need to put guilt in its PROPER place--that is where the true power and free will exists.

I have sat up in Church and heard preachers tell lies that I knew were lies. I sat there waiting for God to strike them dead but no lightening struck. No voice boomed down from heaven "HE'S LYING!" So I figured my Creator expects me to use my brain to discern the truth from the lie.