Black People : This is why the debate over abortion needs to go beyond "a choice."

[skuderjaymes]

It is this TWISTED mentality that drives the problem of fatherless homes within the Black community. That irresponsiblity that you speak of encompasses fathers who "give up his choice" as well as any feeling of responsibility from the moment he releases his sperm.

that's an interesting phrase. "give up his choice". That's actually what
the abortion issue looks like when it's translated to a male context. We don't
get pregnant. Abortion has to do with terminating unwanted pregnancies in
women. The larger issue is Unwanted Pregnancies. Our conversation
on the man-side should be all about, like you said, "giving up his choice"..
controlling his sperm. Men involved in the debate over what goes on in a
woman's body, is in my opinion, an example of being out of context. That's
there conversation, ours is about what we can control. And that
doesn't mean that we can't offer our opinions, but it means that the bulk of
our time and energy should be focused on the part of the equation that
we can most directly affect. Our men and women are both parts of
the equation but they both have different roles that they need to respect.
And by roles I don't mean the position held in the household, I mean what
you specifically are: father, brother, son, uncle, etc.. But the way we talk
about these things is so general and objective that roles and responsibilities
get confused..

 

[blkbutterfly41]

hmmmmmm, I am not surprised.

Look, My brother, they can't do nothing unless we let them. So if they finiance an abortion because the woman is black. So what ??

If we stop having unprotected sex. If we used birth control regularly. If we changed our social behavior, how much power will they have regarding us having our babies ??

I don't want to sound insensitive but I just refuse to shift blame here. We are responsible and accountable for ourselves. I too can't even wrap my mind around the idea how adults can get pregnant by accident in 2009 with all the available birth control methods and when HIV is taking us out.

I am pro life. And I hate to say it, But it's us that are exterminating us. Mentally, physical, spiritually and metaphorically.

If they don't pay for the abortion, Will it not be an abortion ??

 

[Full Speed]

hmmmmmm, I am not surprised.

Look, My brother, they can't do nothing unless we let them. So if they finiance an abortion because the woman is black. So what ??

If we stop having unprotected sex. If we used birth control regularly. If we changed our social behavior, how much power will they have regarding us having our babies ??

I don't want to sound insensitive but I just refuse to shift blame here. We are responsible and accountable for ourselves. I too can't even wrap my mind around the idea how adults can get pregnant by accident in 2009 with all the available birth control methods and when HIV is taking us out.

I am pro life. And I hate to say it, But it's us that are exterminating us. Mentally, physical, spiritually and metaphorically.

If they don't pay for the abortion, Will it not be an abortion ??

The big thing I agree with here is the idea that we give the control to them, and that we cannot shift the blame. On the other hand we need to understand that they are not simply out there offering to pay for abortions when it is inevitable that an abortion will occur, they are out there encouraging abortions and doing all they can to facilitate them and make them easily accessable and the choice to have abortion easier to make.

So, I agree with everything you have said, but we also need to understand that there is an agency out there who is not simply "there when we need them" they are out there doing all they can to "create the need".

 

[Full Speed]

that's an interesting phrase. "give up his choice". That's actually what
the abortion issue looks like when it's translated to a male context. We don't
get pregnant. Abortion has to do with terminating unwanted pregnancies in
women. The larger issue is Unwanted Pregnancies. Our conversation
on the man-side should be all about, like you said, "giving up his choice"..
controlling his sperm. Men involved in the debate over what goes on in a
woman's body, is in my opinion, an example of being out of context. That's
there conversation, ours is about what we can control. And that
doesn't mean that we can't offer our opinions, but it means that the bulk of
our time and energy should be focused on the part of the equation that
we can most directly affect. Our men and women are both parts of
the equation but they both have different roles that they need to respect.
And by roles I don't mean the position held in the household, I mean what
you specifically are: father, brother, son, uncle, etc.. But the way we talk
about these things is so general and objective that roles and responsibilities
get confused..

Every responsible man would be comprehensively involved in this "choice" from start to finish. A responsible man should not choose to concieve a child in a woman who he has not made a lifetime commitment to AND who he has not discussed what would happen if she became pregnant. It is irresponsible to concieve the life THEN say "well, it is up to her to decide rather or not she will KILL my child"

Most "unwanted" pregnancies are "unwanted" because THE MAN does not want the child, cannot be depended upon to "be there", or has abandoned the woman by the time the "decision" is made by the woman. IMO, very few woman choose to kill their unborn child in situations where the man WANTS the child, can be depended upon to "be there", and responsible enough to be a good father.

So, this choice that you want to throw totally upon the woman is more about the man than simply what the woman wants to do with the inside her body. When she shared the inside of her body with the man, she also shared the decision for the consequences of that act.

If we as a community have any desire or intentions of improving the fatherlessness rate, oow rate, the abortion rate, and the results of these conditions, MEN must be comprehensively involved in the result of sexual relationships rather than shifting the responsiblity upon the woman.

 

[chuck]

In all due candor and honesty as well as mutual respect:

Some issues and problems are ours-- and ours to resolve-- as we see fit--since we were and are born and bred etc. in this nation-- and/or on this continent...

Though on the other hand, there may well be an unknown one or two here as well, i. e., who play folk on the basis of their emotions, etc., as do those other folk use same sort tactic on their own alleged or real kind too...

That is:

Some appeals, i e., against denying any woman her right to choose when they do or don't want to bring another human being into our midst, tends to be plagued by simplistic takes on very complex issues and problems...

Also-- that includes anybody daring to place the blame for 'baby killings' on-- of all organizations--PLANNED PARENTHOOD!!

Pulease, folks!

That is the sort of farfetched claim I've come to expect from white anti abortion advocates:

Not black ones!

And if anything:

What plagues our folk--these days--is just the opposite!

The anger and hurt etc. being exibited here:

Yes, I share your embarrasment, if not your hurt and pain, etc.

But, your anger will alienate those you and I need and want to help us, i. e., to find means and ways to end this condoning-- rather than condemning--of the sort of behavior etc. which is leading to an ever increasing number of unplanned births etc.

We have as a people blurred the distinction between 'freedom' and 'irresponsibility...':

Neither did the mere desegregation of this nation public and private institutions etc. in and of itself imply or suggest true equality between the races etc.

It didn't...

It doesn't...

Now the present generations will have to relearn how to truly look out for their own rear ends...


Only there are right and wrong means and ways to go about doing that too!

Anybody can make more excuses for our peoples shortcomings:

Only those trying to to make a difference will take the time etc. to find new means and ways to resolve them...

FYI...