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Black Spirituality Religion : Why I Had To Step Away From Ra Un Nefer Amen

Discussion in 'Black Spirituality / Religion - General Discussion' started by river, Jan 30, 2006.

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  1.  
    river

    river Watch Her Flow MEMBER

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    Several times I've asked the question if the Christians are wrong about the things that can be proven why should I trust them about things that can't be proven. In all fairness I've had to ask the same question of Amen. I have employed a large number of words in the service of pointing out what's amiss in the bible and the church. Yet, I never expressed my reservations about Amen because of the love and respect I hold for those who recommended him to me. In truth, the man is on his own. I cannot venerate him based on the recommendation of others.

    What am I talking about. I am talking about Mr. Amen's faulty science. In an effort to establish the scientific evidence for the existance of God Amen asserts that God's mathematical design of the universe is evinced in every atom of matter. According to Amen's formula every atom has electrons that orbit the nucleus in layers and each layer has the same number of electrons distributed in an order thata can be discerned only by intelligent beings.

    On the first level there are 2 electrons. On the second 8. On the third 18. The fourth 32.

    An intelligent creature can discover the code by which God laft his/her stamp on creation.

    2(1)square = 2
    2(2)square = 8
    2(3)square = 18
    2(4)square = 32

    This simply is not true. What makes it so ill is that this is not rocket science. This is grade school stuff they teach little kids in the 7th and 8th grade. So it doesn't take much gumption to look up the facts.

    Now I asked myself if he is so wrong about such an easily researchable bit of information why should I believe he has the facts about things that are not so available? And why shoyuld i follow spiritual practices that Amen himseelf cautions could lead to demon posession and insanity if I don't perform them absolutely correctly? Especially when none of my teachers has ever experienced them and those people who have experienced them said it scared the h. e. double toothpick out of them.

    I can't throw out the chicken with the grease. There is a lot of good stuff in Amen's books. The difference between the Metu Neter and the bible is that the M.N. belongs to my people not my slave master so it sets me free while the bible keeps me in bondage. It's not the factuality of the science that sets me free, but the affirmation and establishment of the spiritual truths that are already in my mind. For many these truths lay dormant and the M.N. awakens them.

    Nobody ever suggested that the Metu Neter or the Pert Em Heru or the Book of Going Forth by Day are the inerrant, infallable and inspired word of God, It has always been attested that these works represent the writings of men. Yet great spiritual truth has been ascribed to them based soley on their antiquity. The underlying assumption being that these ancient people had a line to God which we don't have. So we have to find out what God said to them because he's not speaking to us.

    This is utter hogwash. As many of us have said our minds are the only thing we have that we know is from the Creator without anyone having to tell us, We can glean truths from books written by men but the presence of truth in a book does not absolve us from our responsibility to use our brains to discern what is true and what is not true. Bad counsel is ninety percent good. It's that ten percent that will destroy us,
     
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    karmashines

    karmashines Banned MEMBER

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    Well, just like the creators of other religious works, Amen is still human.

    With any type of religion or spirituality, I believe what is most important is using your own mind/perspective to siphon out what is applicable or what isn't. Metu Neter is a vehicle towards understanding Kemetician theology; it doesn't mean you have to accept it in its entirety to be a practioner.

    I agree though that no one has any less access to God's knowledge. We could all write our own Metu Neters, Bibles, etc. if we look deep enough inside our spirits.
     
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    river

    river Watch Her Flow MEMBER

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    Exactly, sista Karmashines.

    And while others may not accept what we write as the gospel truth, that's okay because we'r not trying to add to the plethora of neon signs that claim to be the only true message from God, Like you said we have within us a vehicle for understanding==our own little two cents in the bank of diine knowledge.

    That's beautiful isn't it.
     
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    jamesfrmphilly

    jamesfrmphilly going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    i disagree

    i have not found a problem with amen so far.
    the reason for this may be that i am not religious.
    i look at Ra as another cat just like me, maybe a little smarter.
    when i saw him in NYC, the people seemed to be worshipping him as though HE were the God. i don't get into that.
    i bow down to no man (unless he has a 9mm in his hand).
    you also seem to be placing emphasis on the man.

    the book says that if i meditate in a certain manner i will see certain things.
    i did that and i did see some things. i don't worry about the man. if i see what he says i will see then i will take the next step.
    i do not have faith. i do not believe. i go with what i can see with my own eyes.

    i'm trying to say that i only go with what i can see for myself.
    if you can see it for yourself then go with that. if you cannot see for yourself then it may not be for you.
     
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    river

    river Watch Her Flow MEMBER

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    Yea brotha James, it's the true believers that get shocked and dismayed and shaken up when they find errors in what they thought was holy writ.

    Coming straight out of christianity I know some of the tendancy to venerate and worship carried over into my approach to Amen, but not completely.

    My understanding of faith is not just holding something to be true despite all evidence to the contrary. Faith is acting on information to make it a reality in your life because you see it is a reality in someone else'slife. Faith is an impetus to act and in that sense you have it.

    At this point I cannot have faith--I cannot act on the information because when I asked my teachers about their experience they either said they had no experience or ignored my question altogether. And I am not criticising my teachers. They are wonderful. I just could not follow someone to a place they have never been.

    Maybe you can show me your experience and I can act on that.
     
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    SAMURAI36

    SAMURAI36 Banned MEMBER

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    PEACE RIVER:

    I'm curious as to where you received the notion that you needed to venerate him to begin with....?

    Who do you know, that does such a thing?





    Actually, assuming that you fathomed this from his book MA'AT: THE 11 LAWS OF GOD, I don't think that's entirely correct.

    Granted, I don't have to book readily accessible to consult, but from what I can recall from memory, his precise statement was not that "this can only be discerned by intelligent beings", but rather "it could only have been an intelligent being (GOD) that would leave such a signature in his/her/its Creation." (this is actually paraphrased)

    The fact that intelligent beings would be able to fathom it, is only a subsequent bi-product of the Universal Intelligence that dwells within both the Creator and the Creation.



    On the first level there are 2 electrons. On the second 8. On the third 18. The fourth 32.

    What about this is incorrect? Was his math off?

    If you are only asserting that little kids can learn this, that is only besides the point.

    Who are the "they" that are teaching these little kids? Where did "They" learn it from?

    When did Man (humanity) first begin to examine the laws of physics, in which this atomic principle lies, and why?

    That is what his assertion speaks to, rather than one's learning curve in grade school.



    Why should you "believe", indeed? I have always spoken against BELIEVING anything.

    This is a very broad statement, that you are making about a spiritual path, that is as complex and heirarchial as it is simple and natural.

    Not all aspects of this spiritual path are for all SHEMSU (initiates), at least not all at once.

    Why would you expect to run the 100 yard, when you can barely tie your shoe laces?

    That said, AMEN's caution was for individuals who are attempting to jump the gun. Are you familar and comfortable with the initial stages of meditation? Were the people with whom you conferred, who claimed to be scared witless? How long had they been living this way of life?

    What about it scared them, besides the fact that they may not have known what they are doing?

    There are alot of unnamed variables that could play into this, none of which necessarily serve to discredit AMEN and the way of life that he was simply used as a vessel to bring forth.

    Further, regarding the demonic possession, etc, what is exclusive about this, that is not so for virtually any other spiritual path?

    How do we know that Christians who speak in tongues in the church, are not possessed by a demon? How do we know that Buddhist monks that can break walls with one punch, have not been fortified by Satan himself?

    Furthermore, I have made the comparison of spiritual development being no less instructive and directional, as is the process by which one develops their physical body.

    Any personal trainer worth the title will give you a comparable warn the likes of AMEN's, in that you can do yourself major harm in attempting to "jump the gun" with a health regiment that you are not absolutely prepared for.

    Thus, not being physically prepared to run 50 yard sprints, and catching cramps or cardiac arrest from trying to do so just the same, is no different from being taken over by a demon while trying to practice a level of sexual tantra that one is not ready for.

    I ask you, in your Mind's Eye, what is the difference? And would you back away from your personal trainer for offering you such an honest warning, as you are doing with AMEN?

    I agree.

    True indeed.

    However, this is not entirely correct either.

    It is not antiquity itself that makes Kemet and her Metu Neter so special. Buddhist monks, Hindu Gurus, and Native American Shamans walk this earth right now, to this very day.

    It is rather, what antiquity afforded our people, and not the antiquity itself that should be focused upon.

    It afforded them an unfettered, unadulterated connection with the Divine, without the distraction of the White man and his evil--his polution, his war, his lies, his destruction. Kemet and civilizations like her are a living historical testimony to what our people can do, physically mentally and spiritually.

    Never since then, on a societal level, has humanity built buildings that remain standing without augmentation. Never has there been the practice of medicine in these modern times, where people die at the meanderings of those who admit to only "practicing medicine". Never has the presence of Woman (black or otherwise) been so cherished, respected, loved and honored.

    Where is the badness of antiquity in all of this?

    Further, METU NETER, like any other ATR, focuses on ancestral invocation as an aspect of the system. Where are these ancestors, if not in the past?

    All Scriptures, without exception, be it the Vedas, the Qur'an, the Pert, and even the Bible, open their respective wisdom to the reader with a facsimile of the phrase: "In The Beginning......."

    However, the Pert is unique, because those is takes us back to the "beginning" in the linear sense, the way it ends is not so linear, with a statement that transcends time and space:

    "May your Spirit rise as the Sun at Midday; Today as Yesterday, Tomorrow as Today".

    We are forever reminded of the Eternal Presence, within the universe, and within ourselves.

    I'm truly at an utter loss, as to when such a premise, especially as it pertains to AMEN, has been made otherwise.

    Is AMEN God in the flesh? No more or less so than I am, than you are.

    He doesn't lay hands on people, he doesn't walk on water, he doesn't read minds....Nor, to my knowledge, does he claim to.

    However, he has done quite a bit of things that deserve my respect: he is one of the 5 Great Kings of Ghana. He has researched more raw information that most Black people I know put together. He is in the peak of health. To my knowledge he has never smoked, used drugs, or abused alcohol. He has also to my knowledge, never disrespected or abused women or children. He has openly and honestly led a society of Black people towards enlightenment.

    These things may not deserve "veneration" per se, but I can say that they have been men in the not-too-distant past, in which we have indeed venerated with far more questionable characters and backgrounds.


    He has, within the confines of his own writings, reiterated the fact that the book known as "METU NETER" is not a scripture, nor is it untennable.

    AMEN did not create METU NETER, he simply wrote a book about the spiritual system by the very same name.

    The very purpose of that system is to help the initiate awaken the God within.......

    Thus, when I am practicing this system, and even reading AMEN's own literary works which can indeed serve as a guide, it is not the God within Amen that I am thinking about, nor concerned with....But rather, the God within ME.

    I would humbly suggest, dear Sheqheti, that you focus on the very same thing.

    Req Em Ab (Know Thyself).

    HOTEPET
     
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    jamesfrmphilly

    jamesfrmphilly going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    my understanding is that you can experience it for yourself.
    you only act on what you feel and see to be true.
    i have been able to contact the spirit within me and i act on that.
    that is why i am not worshiping Amen. i have my own spirit.

    being out in the boonies you may not have good guides to work with.
    i would have never made it without the people in philly instructing me how to meditate.
     
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    SAMURAI36

    SAMURAI36 Banned MEMBER

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    I bear witness to everything the Brother Elder has stated here.

    Beloved Sister, after re-reading your statements here, and even in listening to what the Brother Elder has stated, it sounds to me, that you are calling out for a more dedicated enlightener and guide than you have had previously.

    While this is in fact a fair and even safe personal desire, we must also be careful not to depend too much on our guides, as they are but human as well.

    Also, I think the Brother Elder and myself have a bit of an advantage with this, in that we have the luxury of not approaching this from the former mindset of Christianity, as you had admitted to previously doing.

    I have had esoteric spirituality as my foundation for most of my natural life, from the Way of the Feather, and/or 5% Islam, all of which either recognizes and/or attempts to awaken the God in Self.

    The Brother Elder had spurned religion altogether, which allowed him the luxury of not having the exoteric filth scar his psyche.

    Both backgrounds, though diametrically opposing, both afforded it the ability to approach METU NETER with a balanced and unbiased mind, looking for that which we only sought to begin with: The God Within.

    I know that you do not care for TV and movies, but Master Yoda in Star Wars said it the most Profound:

    "In order to learn the Ways of the Force, you must unlearn all that you think you know......"

    The subtitle of the second volume of METU NETER says "ANUK AUSAR": I Am Ausar.

    The beauty about AMEN, is that unlike so many other "teachers" that have (mis)led us in the past, he has clearly and openly stated, that ANYONE can ascend to the level of Ausar, not just him.

    HOTEPET
     
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    jamesfrmphilly

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    anyone except River............:grin:
     
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    river

    river Watch Her Flow MEMBER

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    Peace brotha Sam, peace and love,

    I understand what you are saying about Amen and do not disagree with you. It's not his overall message nor his motives that made me step back from the initiations and metaphysical aspects of the Metu Neter. As I said this error in his science gave me pause and I just could not proceed withuot further knowledge and guidance.


    I have not received such a notion nor have I said that I have.

    We were both paraphrasing and while your paraphrase may be more accurate than mine, the problem and ettot does not lay here.
    Everything.

    Every atom does not have the same number of electrons. In fact, the number of electrons in any atom can change due to chemical forces. In fact, atoms of the same element, that is atoms that have the same atomic number (number of protons) can have a different number of electrons and are called isotopes.In fact, no layer of any atom has more than eight electrons.

    The reason I mentioned grade school kids is to show how basic this knowledge is and how easy it would be to look it up. I don't know why Amen did not look this information up but when I found him in error here I had to stop. It would indeed be veneration and worship if I said "My Amen right or wrong I will trust him and not question him."

    Does that mean I no longer respect him or think his work is worthless? Certainly not. I have explained my stance above and you agreed with it and eloquently elaborated on my very thoughts.
    So many unknowns. How do I know? And if I don''t know then what can I do but believe or not believe? You say you know these rituals will lead to enlightenment and nirvana. Do you know this by experience? Have you reached the Ausarian stage? Do you even know anyone who has? And I don't mean know of them or about them but I mean personally, imtimately, experientially know someone who demonstrably is at or has been to that stage of spiritual development. If not then you are a believer, not a knower. If so then that's the person I want to talk to.
    This is that eloquent explanation of which I spoke above. I could not have said it better, Shequem.
    As you and brotha james have noted that will not be an easy thing to accomplich on my own. And I am on my own. When I shut the computer off there is not a soul that I can talk to.

    I am wondering about my roommate. She sometimes does things that shock and astonish me. She is stone blind. When you look in her eyes you will not see eyeballs. Yet several times she has been aware of things that only sight could tell her. when I picked up a shirt that fell on the floor when i was making up my bed and wasn't sure whose it was I wondered allowed "I wonder whose this is?" Mind you I did not mention anything about a shirt and this was flannel cotton so it made no noise when it fell. She said "It must be yours because it's not mine." I said "What's not yours?" She said "The shirt that was on your bed." You can imagine how astonished I was. I sometimes find her in what seems to be meditation. But I don't like to pry into people's business so I have never asked her too pointedly to explain how she knows things. She says things liike Oh I just guessed. She is stone blind but I still hold my towel over me when I go to take a shower:D.
     
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