1. ♥ Thank You Family - for sharing yourself with us all these many years - sixteen of them. I am honored.

Brother AACOOLDRE : What is UR and Abraham

Discussion in 'AACOOLDRE' started by AACOOLDRE, Dec 23, 2004.

above content a

above content b

 
  1. AACOOLDRE

    AACOOLDRE Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2001
    Messages:
    1,755
    Likes Received:
    304
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Teacher
    Location:
    Michigan
    when we are told that Abraham came from Ur of the Kasdim, or the Magi, which was his birthplace, that goes far to identify him as a solar god, just as Laban, the white one, was a lunar deity, and Ur a mythical locality. Ur is an Egyptian name for that which is eldest, first, great, principal. The course of the sun-god by day is reckoned to run from Ta-Ur to Am-Ur, i.e. from east to west. Ta-Ur then is Egyptian for the land of the east, and the migration thence is solar, that is — mythical, — and would be astronomical when the [Page 637] birthplace is designated “Ur of the Kasdim” or Chaldees. Ur of the Kasdim is self-identified by name with the Magi, astrologers or astronomers. Moreover, the frequent coupling of Ur and Martu in the astrological tablets points to Ur as a name for the east being juxtaposed to Martu for the west, “Ur and Martu” meaning east and west, and not Ur a city on earth and Martu a quarter in the heavens.
    1 person likes this.
  2. MizLindaLinda

    MizLindaLinda Member MEMBER

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2004
    Messages:
    125
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    18
    The TRUE Ur of which Abraham was born at

    The Ur of the Chaldees and the Ur of which Abraham was born at are "two" different Urs.The Ur of Abraham was actually "Urfa". It is in the area of Urfa that there are several villages, communites and ruins called "Serug" (Abram's great-grandfather), "Nahor" (Abram's grandfather), "Terah" (Abram's father) and "Haran" (Abram's brother). These names have changed down the years. Serug is most likely the same place as the one referred to as "Sarugi" in Assyrian documents from around 700 BC and called "Suruc" today. Around 900 BC Terah is referred to as "Til-Turahi", which means ruins of Terah. The place called Haran (Abram's brother's name) still exists today, situated in south-eastern Turkey, about 44 km from urfa by the roads of today, which shows Urfa's surroundings near the border between modern Turkey and Syria.
    The cave town of Urfa's citadel , which according to popular tradition was Abram's birthplace, is still regarded as a holy place today. The city is named Sanliurfa (since 1983), but was earlier named Urfa. Urfa is related to the Hurranian state, and the city is at least from the second millenum BC. Moslems have erected a mosque over the cave, the Crusaders erected a fortress, and there are two columns from ancient Baal temple, called Nimrod's throne, on top of the mountain. King Abgar Ukkama (9-46 AD) was the founder of Christian traditions of this city.

    Once you thoroughly examine all the data, Ur of the Chaldees cannot be the Ur the Bible refers to based on the route Abraham would have had to take.
  3. AACOOLDRE

    AACOOLDRE Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2001
    Messages:
    1,755
    Likes Received:
    304
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Teacher
    Location:
    Michigan
    Ur of the Chaldesss did not exist until about the 8th century BC, a thousand years after the time of Abraham.

    The Bible does not call the city Ur of chaldee but Chesdim meaning land of the chesed. chesdim/chaldea an aramaic lanquage which had no existence prior to about tenth century bc.

    Ur is not catalogued in the table of nations from Noah's Children.abraham was born only 290 years after the flood,there is no way that the chaldees could have been associated with ur in his time frame. the references to chesed and aram as his contemporaries is anachronistic.

    These references to Ur of the Chesdim,Chesed, and Aram obviously stem from a time when:

    1. Aramea and Chaldea had come into existence
    2. The Hebrews started to adopt Aramaic terminology
    3. Chaldea had become a major force in Mesopotamia
    4. the collective memory of Chaldean and aramaic had rededed tnto myth
    5. The Hebrews would use the aramaic pronunciation rather than the native dialect

    This suggest a timeframe well after the babylonian conquest of Judad (fifth century BC. It was a late invention intended to place Hebrew origins in the cultural center of the powerful Mesopotamican empires. It was intended to enhance Hebrew prestige within the babylonian community.
  4. cherryblossom

    cherryblossom Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2009
    Messages:
    18,512
    Likes Received:
    5,237
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Friday, May 15, 2009
    Locating Biblical Ur

    ...The location of biblical Ur has been the subject of interest through the centuries. St. Jerome suggests that Ur may represent a religious practice rather than a place. He wrote, "...in the Hebrew it has 'in ur Chesdim,' that is, 'in the fire of the Chaldeans.' Moreover the Hebrews, taking the opportunity afforded by this verse, hand on a story of this sort to the effect that Abraham was put into the fire because he refused to worship the fire, which the Chaldeans honor, and that he escaped through God's help and fled from the fire of idolatry."[3]

    Here St. Jerome refers to a legendary episode based on midrash in which Abraham was thrown into the fire by order of King Nimrod. The legend is as anacronistic as the citing of Ur as a Chaldean population center in the time of Terah. Ur could not have been "of the Chaldeans" prior to the Neo-Babylonian empire in the seventh century B.C.

    Josephus and Rabbi Maimonides believed that Ur Kaśdim was in Northern Mesopotamia, in what is today Syria or Turkey. Following their idea, various sites have been proposed as biblical Ur. One site is Urkish in modern Syria (37° 3′ 25″ N, 40° 59′ 50″ E37.056944, 40.997222 ). There are two problems with this location. First, Afro-Asiatic chiefs established their territories along waterways which they controlled, but there was no waterway running between Harran and Urkish. Second, as Urkish is almost directly east of Harran, this would mean that Terah set his two wives on an east-west axis, which is unlikely.[4]

    Another site that has been proposed is Urartu. This is impossible since it isn't a specific site but a region of Armenia near Lake Van. The placement of wives in separate settlements, each with their own shrines, requires a specific site.

    The third location is Urfa in modern Turkey (37° 9′ 0″ N, 38° 48′ 0″ E37.15, 38.8). This site is more likely than either of the first two proposed because it is about 40 miles north of Harran. This would mean that Terah's two wives were properly placed on a north-south axis. However, this indicates that Terah's territory was much smaller than seems likely. (Terah is the great Patriarch from whom all the principal figures of biblical history are descended.) Another problem is that the route between Harran and Urfa does not correspond to a waterway.

    The most likely site is that proposed by the British archaeologist Charles Woolley in 1927. He identified biblical Ur Kaśdim with the Sumerian city of Ur in southern Mesopotamia, situated east of the present Euphrates river in Iraq (see map above). This site is the most likely as it fits the pattern of Afro-Asiatic chiefs maintaining their wives on a north-south axis corresponding to waterways. If this is biblical Ur, we must conclude that Terah was a very great chief indeed. His territory would have extended along the Euphrates River for about 800 miles. This explains why Terah's descendents - Nahor, Abraham, Lot, Isaac, Jacob, Esau and Joktan - were recognized as great chiefs also.
    There is a tendency to think that people in Abraham's time didn't travel widely, but the Genesis material suggests that rulers traveled the length and breadth of their territories. Terah traveled between his 2 wives, one in Harran and the other in Ur, a distance of at least 730 miles. Abraham traveled about this distance from Harran to the shrine between Bethel and Ai, where he first settled in Canaan.

    Abraham also set his wives on a north-south axis, with Sarah in Hebron and Keturah in Beersheba. This means that Abraham's territory corresponded to a system of rivers, lakes and wells as did the territory of his father and his ancestors Noah and Nok.



    continued: http://jandyongenesis.blogspot.com/2009/05/locating-biblical-ur.html
  5. cherryblossom

    cherryblossom Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2009
    Messages:
    18,512
    Likes Received:
    5,237
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female


    Genesis 11:31 - And Terah took Abram his son, and Lot the son of Haran his son's son, and Sarai his daughter in law, his son Abram's wife; and they went forth with them from Ur of the Chaldees, to go into the land of Canaan; and they came unto Haran, and dwelt there.


    2 Kings 25:13 - And the pillars of brass that [were] in the house of the LORD, and the bases, and the brasen sea that [was] in the house of the LORD, did the Chaldees break in pieces, and carried the brass of them to Babylon.

    2 Kings 24:2 - And the LORD sent against him bands of the Chaldees, and bands of the Syrians, and bands of the Moabites, and bands of the children of Ammon, and sent them against Judah to destroy it, according to the word of the LORD, which he spake by his servants the prophets.

    2 Chronicles 36:17 - Therefore he brought upon them the king of the Chaldees, who slew their young men with the sword in the house of their sanctuary, and had no compassion upon young man or maiden, old man, or him that stooped for age: he gave [them] all into his hand.

    Genesis 11:31 - And Terah took Abram his son, and Lot the son of Haran his son's son, and Sarai his daughter in law, his son Abram's wife; and they went forth with them from Ur of the Chaldees, to go into the land of Canaan; and they came unto Haran, and dwelt there.

    2 Kings 25:4 - And the city was broken up, and all the men of war [fled] by night by the way of the gate between two walls, which [is] by the king's garden: (now the Chaldees [were] against the city round about:) and [the king] went the way toward the plain.

    Genesis 15:7 - And he said unto him, I [am] the LORD that brought thee out of Ur of the Chaldees, to give thee this land to inherit it.

    2 Kings 25:5 - And the army of the Chaldees pursued after the king, and overtook him in the plains of Jericho: and all his army were scattered from him.

    2 Kings 25:25 - But it came to pass in the seventh month, that Ishmael the son of Nethaniah, the son of Elishama, of the seed royal, came, and ten men with him, and smote Gedaliah, that he died, and the Jews and the Chaldees that were with him at Mizpah.

    2 Kings 25:24 - And Gedaliah sware to them, and to their men, and said unto them, Fear not to be the servants of the Chaldees: dwell in the land, and serve the king of Babylon; and it shall be well with you.

    2 Kings 25:26 - And all the people, both small and great, and the captains of the armies, arose, and came to Egypt: for they were afraid of the Chaldees.

    Nehemiah 9:7 - Thou [art] the LORD the God, who didst choose Abram, and broughtest him forth out of Ur of the Chaldees, and gavest him the name of Abraham;

    Isaiah 13:19 - And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty of the Chaldees' excellency, shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah.

    2 Kings 25:10 - And all the army of the Chaldees, that [were with] the captain of the guard, brake down the walls of Jerusalem round about.

    Genesis 11:28 - And Haran died before his father Terah in the land of his nativity, in Ur of the Chaldees.
  6. cherryblossom

    cherryblossom Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2009
    Messages:
    18,512
    Likes Received:
    5,237
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    A different perspective>>>>



Share Us With Others

Users found this page by searching for:

  1. abraham proposed what idea to the people of Ur

    ,
  2. ur-chesdim