Black Women : What does "beauty" have to do with women?

skuderjaymes

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These are questions from a conversation I had with a black female intellectual friend of mine.. We were talking about Identity and the word "beauty" came up a few times.. and so I asked her.. and now you,

"What does beauty have to do with women? And why does "beauty" enter at all into female identity?"
 
These are questions from a conversation I had with a black female intellectual friend of mine.. We were talking about Identity and the word "beauty" came up a few times.. and so I asked her.. and now you,

"What does beauty have to do with women? And why does "beauty" enter at all into female identity?"
Why not? Ever hear an elder wise one say, "That Woman got Beauty a blind man can see"

There are some that understand what that means
and there are some that don't
 
I posted this in the women's section for a reason. I'm interested in the responses of women first.. then men.. second.. in that order.. but even then, I'm hoping for substance over nonsense..
 
Peace Yall..

My position (in the conversation mentioned in the opening post) was that "beauty" originally became a part of the female identity through female subjugation by men. she balked at that idea and said it had to do with the expectations of the world.. which, from my angle, sounded like the exact same thing I said, but she refused to accept it as stated by me.. about an hour later, I learned that was really happening was that she was kind of hurt by my idea/assertion that women, generally speaking, were overly concerned about outward appearance.. She said it was unfair that, theoretically speaking, women who wear makeup and heels lose points with me... her words.. which was ironic given the fact that part of my assertion was that women should be the keepers of their own points and not give any undue weight to values and definitions originating outside of themselves.. unless those values/definitions are adequately aligned with their own values, intentions, objectives, etc..

anyway.. I believe that that hyper-concern with outward appearance emanates from an acculturated/forced insecurity that begins from the earliest stages of female intellectual development. And though she likes her heels and makeup and fitted skirts and whatnot, that doesn't prove that it's not the result of a prolonged and acculturated subjugation. Esteem is like a weed.. or greens.. it'll grow anywhere.. I used the breaking down of men into the roles of sexual objects in prison as an example to show how even those men begin to find esteem within the roles they have been so violently pressed into..

Humanity is elastic.. Deathrow inmates still smile. So, just because she has embraced some elements of her subjugation and mastered them and applied her genius to them and has acquired her own form of power and free will--all from within the confines of her subjugated role--does NOT mean that the walls of her subjugation are ok. It's my opinion that those walls should be identified and pulled-down--piece by piece.

But what about the folks that have grown accustomed to those walls? What about the ones that depend on those walls?.. the ones that have built the homes of their identities against those walls? What will they do then? Thats the question. What will protect them then? because remember.. walls that confine, also protect. It's an interesting set of questions.. especially for African American women because of the layers of isms that black women have to negotiate their identity through.. Racism from outside the black community.. Sexism from Outside the black community and Sexism from inside the black community.. realizing an identity through all of those layers of outside definition, is a gargantuan task.. And it's, in my opinion, irresponsible to not guide our daughters through that gauntlet of tricks and traps and holes and distractions.

For the record, I'm not saying that women shouldn't wear makeup and heels and nice clothes and perfume.. I'm saying that none of those things should enter in anyway into her own ideas about female identity. Meaning, although men may define her.. categorize her.. in terms of their own uses for her, it's my opinion that she should not ever allow those definitions and categories to influence her own definition of her identity.

And her self-worth.. her esteem... should not be acquired or judged in the terms of those external definitions and categories. The redbone with the big boody and the good hair should not allow those external sexist, racism-affected definitions for her to enter into the way she sees her own self... meaning she should not build any esteem on top of that sexist, racism-affected description of her; even though it casts her as desirable. Just like the black nappy-headed bitc## shouldn't allow that external, racism-affected, sexist definition of her to enter into the way she sees herself.

anyway, Her and I have had this conversation 3 or 4 different times and it has never ended in any kind of agreement.. she's a Feminist and I'm self-defined.. and so we clash as she tries to speak of liberation from behind a cell door to which, I believe, she has the key. I just can't understand why she doesn't unlock the door and walk free..

-peace
 
Peace Yall..

My position (in the conversation mentioned in the opening post) was that "beauty" originally became a part of the female identity through female subjugation by men. she balked at that idea and said it had to do with the expectations of the world.. which, from my angle, sounded like the exact same thing I said, but she refused to accept it as stated by me.. about an hour later, I learned that was really happening was that she was kind of hurt by my idea/assertion that women, generally speaking, were overly concerned about outward appearance.. She said it was unfair that, theoretically speaking, women who wear makeup and heels lose points with me... her words.. which was funny given the fact that part of my assertion was that women should be the keepers of their own points and not give undue weight to values and definitions originating outside of themselves.. unless those values/definitions are adequately aligned with their own values, intentions, objectives, etc..

anyway.. I believe that that hyper-concern with outward appearance emanates from an acculturated/forced insecurity that begins from the earliest stages of female intellectual development. And though she likes her heels and makeup and fitted skirts and whatnot, that doesn't prove that it's not the result of a prolonged and acculturated subjugation. Esteem is like a weed.. or greens.. it'll grow anywhere.. I used the breaking down of men into the roles of sexual objects in prison as an example to show how even those men begin to find esteem within the roles they have been so violently pressed into..

Humanity is elastic.. Deathrow inmates still smile. So, just because she has embraced some elements of her subjugation and mastered them and applied her genius to them and has acquired her own form of power and free will--all from within the confines of her subjugated role--does mean that the walls of her subjugation are ok. It's my opinion that those walls should be identified and pulled-down--piece by piece.

But what about the folks that have grown accustomed to those walls? What about the ones that depend on those walls?.. the ones that have built the homes of their identities against those walls? What will they do then? Thats the question. What will protect them then? because remember.. walls that confine, also protect. It's an interesting set of questions.. especially for African American women because of the layers of isms that black women have to negotiate their identity through.. Racism from outside the black community.. Sexism from Outside the black community and Sexism from inside the black community.. realizing an identity through all of those layers of outside definition, is a gargantuan task.. And it's, in my opinion, irresponsible to guide our daughters through that gauntlet of tricks and traps and holes and distractions..

For the record, I'm not saying that women shouldn't wear makeup and heels and nice clothes and perfume.. I'm saying that none of those things should enter in anyway into her own ideas about female identity. Meaning, although men may define her.. categorize her.. in terms of their own uses for her, it's my opinion that she should not ever allow those definitions and categories to influence her own definition of her identity.

And her self-worth.. her esteem... should not be acquired or judged in the terms of those external definitions and categories. The redbone with the big boody and the good hair should not allow those external sexist, racism-affected definitions for her to enter into the way she sees her own self... meaning she should not build any esteem on top of that sexist, racism-affected description of her; even though it casts her as desirable. Just like the black nappy-headed bitc## shouldn't allow that external, racism-affected, sexist definition of her to enter into the way she sees herself.

anyway, Her and I have had this conversation 3 or 4 different times and it has never ended in any kind of agreement.. she's a Feminist and I'm self-defined.. and so we clash as she tries to speak of liberation from behind a cell door to which, I believe, she has the key. I just can't understand why she doesn't unlock the door and walk free..

-peace
Okay, what you are saying is fine and great, but as women we experience a whole lot different from what men experience....and I think that you know that, you have hit on alot of points to show that women should move from this. That being said, as a young girl you grow up thinking that you should be pretty. No one wants to be considered ugly, so you look at what you are shown, it is something that I believe is in us. The problem is, we need guidance to show us what is pretty. You did say the exact same thing as your friend, but sometimes when it comes from the mouths of others, it shows us how silly we are. Also, I don't know exactly how you said it to her, or your relationship, so there may have been other things in that equation.

You used men in prison to try and break down the way that manipulation can work...I can tell you this, that example would not sit well with most. You forget to look at the example, and you begin to look at men sleeping with men. I don't care how much sense you make, it can make your whole discussion go down the drain.

We as women know what make-up, weave, and heels can do to us. I wear heels twice a week, once to church, and again just because. Doesn't that sound silly? I will be honest though, when I put on my heels at (5'4") I feel like Wonderwoman. I like it, it makes me feel good, but sometimes they can be a pain in the you know what...most of the time. Like you said though, we have taken the idea of what society has told us what is beautiful. I remember when I first went natural and I went on a date, the brother stared at the top of my head the whole time. It made me self conscience. We try to adapt to what we think our men will like. Later I decided that I was just gonna do me no matter what, and by that I learned that some brothers like natural hair, later on I learned that it is not just about the hair, but self confidence. So I became more comfortable, which allowed me to not give a darn what anyone else thinks.

With your friend, I don't think she is fighting what you are saying, but she is fighting the fact that she has given in to what is considered beauty in the world. It is considered a weakness, because we are suppose to be so strong, and we are. That is hard for a women to realize, sometimes we can know ourselves but not realize that we are influenced by the outside world.

All that being said, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I am sure you have heard of that before, and I have seen many examples. Men and women, but you know what, the relationships that I looked and said that is a mismatch because of looks, those are the ones that last.
 

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