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Pan Africanism : Were the Moors Black?

Discussion in 'Black History - Culture - Panafricanism' started by African_Prince, Oct 3, 2005.

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    African_Prince

    African_Prince Active Member MEMBER

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    To my understanding the (conquering/original ) Moors were Arab-Berbers like the Almohads and the Almoravids. I'm sure there were Black Moors as they are Black Moors today, but they were Africans enslaved by the Moors who adopted the Moor language (Hassiniya Arabic ) and culture. The origins of the Berbers are uncertain, but I read somewhere their are accounts of them being in N.Africa going back to 3000 BCE and the Arabs brought Islam to N.Africa in the 7th century. Tarik Ibn Zyid (sp?) was a Berber as far as I know and the word 'Moor' came from the Berber tribe 'Mauri', the article claims otherwise ( it came from 'Mauros' ) which I've heard elsewhere and don't know which is right .The Moors came from ancient Mauritania ( not the modern day republic ) which was located b/w Morroco and western Algeria, and the people of the Maghreb (north west Africa ) have always been predominatly Berbers. What arguement do you give that the Moors or Hannibal ( who was from Carthage in Tunisia) were Black Africans and not Arab-Berbers or Berbers? I'm just interested because I've heard this before. Is it true or just a false claim? Did slaves maybe make up the military or something?

    http://www.cwo.com/~lucumi/moors_arabs.html
     
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    Omowale Jabali

    Omowale Jabali The Cosmic Journeyman PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I believe the term "Moor" has historically used in much of the same way as the word "Negro".

    Obviously there are those who claim to be "indigenous Moors" in the americas pre-dating Columbus going much further than the trans-Atlantic trade.

    In conducting persoal geneaological research I found a link to a family believed to have been related to the Prophet and this was a line that was the royal family in Denia (a small kingdomin eastern Al-Andulus) that traced back to Mecca and was not infused by the North African line of the prophet but they were known as "Black Moors" of Spain.

    Study in this area typically overlooks the racial mixture that occurred under the Ottoman Empire and the Turks infused their blood with the Arabs and Africans and over hundreds of years Turkish blood infused with the brown and black skinned "Moors" had a "lightening" effect.

    So it really does not make a lot of sense today trying to determine who was who based on language or skin color because to varying degrees we are ALL mixed up and infused with something.

    The same is true concerning the various names to describe the people and the areas in which they inhabited. Mauri, Mauros, Moro, Mor, Morro, Moor, et. al it continues to get rather complex trying to differentiate and associate with accuracy.

    Berbers, Arab-Berbers, Moroccans, Mauritanians, Libyans, Africans, really...what i am more concerned is forging some Cultural Unity instead of focusing on Racial Difference..

    Which is more important?

    Peace & Blessings!

    In Struggle,
    Brother Omowale.
     
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    Omowale Jabali

    Omowale Jabali The Cosmic Journeyman PREMIUM MEMBER

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    The Global African Presence.


    Let me commend you for referencing this site. Runoko Rashidi has provided US with a wealth of resources and information.

    Peace & Blessings!

    In Struggle,
    Brother Omowale.
     
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    Isaiah

    Isaiah Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Smokin' article, African Prince!
    Runouko is a master scholar and teacher, the progeny of Clarke, Ben-Jocannon, and Van Sertima...

    Peace!
    Isaiah
     
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    Therious

    Therious Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    the arguement i would give is that northr/west africa was not always inhabited by arabs. i believe after a series of wars and natural disaster blacks lost control of this area. i would argue many moors were of mixed blood after the arabs took these lands as today you find most nations the conquering class has mixed with the original citizens.i have read the moors were african..dark,light, brown, ect. including arabs, and mixed breeds.

    i have read that moor means black to the ancient romans also. although i was not alive then so no one can say for certain. What prrof can be provided of hanibals identity one way or the other? is it not true hannibal was of carthage? was carthage not an afrikan empire?
     
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    African_Prince

    African_Prince Active Member MEMBER

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    If I'm not mistaken Carthage was a Phonecian (sp?) colony in North Africa. Long before the Arabs came to the Maghreb, their were Berbers, and Berbers ( except for the Tuareg and maybe some other I don't know about) are clearly not racially Black people. You can google image Berbers, some of them look White, others no different then Arabs.
     
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    Therious

    Therious Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    HISTORIANS HAVE ACCOUNTED THAT CARTHAGE WAS A BLACK STATE, AS WERE PHONECIANS THEM SLEVES WERE A BLACK PEOPLE.mANY SICILIANS ARE DARK PEOPLE, SOME SAY DUE TO MIXING WITH INVADING CARTHAGINIANS.

    I DO NOT HAVE THE ANSWERS BUT IN MY OPINION IF BLACKS ARE THE OLDEST PEOPLES ON THIS SO CALLED EARTH ACCORDING TO ARCHEOLOGY (AND DARKNESS OF SKIN) THEN AFRICANS MUST HAVE BEEN ON THE CONTINENT LONGER THEN BERBER SO WHERE DID BERBERS COME FROM?

    WHAT COUNTRY R U FROM BTW?

    GREAT THREAD
     
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    Deepvoice

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    They'll never tell the truth and will even make up good counterfeit stories as to why the Moors weren't black. Denzel Washington and Vin Diesel were battling for the role of Hannibal Barca. As a matter of fact I think they both were set to play in two separate movies about Hannibal.

    Many people from the Middle East, even people(movie critics) in America said that it wouldn't be accurate historically to have Denzel play the part because the Carthagians were Semitic. Vin Diesel was said to be better suited because he had a more Middle Eastern or Semitic look. Even though he is a terrible actor in comparison to Denzel.

    I know this thread wasn't originally about the Carthagians, but for some reason I had to bring this up. White people steal everything that we have ever done.
     
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    Sekhemu

    Sekhemu Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    True, the Phoenicians were black, Afro-Asiatic.
     
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    African_Prince

    African_Prince Active Member MEMBER

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    I'm from Zambia. Africans are the world's oldest/original people but I read somewhere Berbers have been in the Maghreb (northwest Africa ) going back as far as 3000 BCE even though their origins are uncertain. I also heard from somewhen else Berbers were of Phonecian descent, but I don't think that's true. I won't say that I know for sure one way or the other, but how could the Phonecians be Black when they originated in the Middle East?

    "I know this thread wasn't originally about the Carthagians, but for some reason I had to bring this up. White people steal everything that we have ever done."

    I wouldn't say this is incorrect, but I'm only interested in the truth.
     
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