Hi Mike,

Just the other day, I read a poem written by Bruce a.ka. Heartbeart. It was on the subject matter of reparations. The poem made complete sense to me. Yet, I am in a fix between two views. I am still in the "gathering information and insight" mode, between I also understand the view of others who believe AAs deserve it. I don't know what to think. Thoughts within say they don't owe us anything, I want to work for what I get. I don't want nothing given to me, if the ones giving it are being forced to give, rather than giving from a heart that is truly sorry for what the government allowed to happen to it's fellow americans.

Then the opposing thoughts say: Why not, others have being compensated for treatment to their fore fathers and mother. And though this happened to the slaves, I can't leave out the fact of the total injustice that I (I grew up in the south during the civil rights movement) and my parents suffered just recently, (not 200 years ago), should be compensated for. The hangings, the beatings, the rapes, the verbal slanders, the racial profiling, the water fountains, (all black/white) the restaurants, the restrooms, the german shephards, the schools and on and on. :mad:

I told Heartbeat, that I hated being a 'gray' person on this issue, :confused:because I am basically a black and white person. Either I'm for a thang or against it.

What I would like to know is what are YOUR views on this issue and why. Thanks. To read Bruce's poem pleaseClick Here to read: Reparations...Fools Gold (http://www.destee.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9953&perpage=10&pagenumber=1)

Joyce

Several years ago I penned a column on the Reparations issue, from a Biblical point of view. Far TOO many have forgotten that the Bible is clear about the subject of Slavery, and how slaves should be treated (OT Book of Exodus; NT Book of Philemon) and how slaves should treat their masters IF both are of the household of faith.

There are three current schools of thought:

1) America issued a promisary note in the form of the '40 Acres and a Mule' back during the Civil War, and NEVER paid it off! Like EV Hill said: "My Mule may be sick, she may be lame, but I STILL want my Mule!" America 'reniged' on that promise, as the administration that followed the Lincoln Administration quickly 'forgot' what was owed to our ancestors.

2) One extremist side says that African Americans are NOT owed anything...and there are some black folk who agree. However, WHEN Reparations are paid, Will they give the checks back?

3) Another extremist side says that African Americans should 'get over it!" Well, the Indians have Reservations, the Chinese, Japanese, and Vietnamese have EACH been compensated, one way or another, by Uncle Sam. It's OUR turn in line. Even the Jews afflicted by the Holocaust have been compensated--but they represent ONLY 6 million out of the 20 million (including Africans) who were killed in the Hitler Death Camps.

Here is the column I originally penned on the subject. www.swagga.com has even MORE on the subject....the good, bad, and ugly.

The Old, The New and My Mule-Please!
The Manhood Line By Mike Ramey

Brothers, if many of you are like me, you could best be described as being of the 'Old School.' Meaning: many of us were infants and toddlers during Brown vs. the Board of Education, and the first march on Washington; teenagers at the time of the Jackson and Kent State University murders (I am a KSU alum-Class of 1979), and became full-fledged, card-carrying, tax-paying adults as the information age and the internet broke onto the International scene.

However, our generation has a struggle before us!

In the words of one of my heroes, Tony Brown, paraphrasing a statement he made in Indianapolis, Indiana nearly 20 years ago: "You are the best educated, best funded, and best equipped generation of Africans on the face of the planet. You are America's bridge to Africa - or she doesn't have a bridge! As a people, we control the wealth equal to between the eighth and tenth largest nation on earth. If we left America, ***********Wall Street***************would have collapsed last week!"

Now, this has always been a column written from a biblical, business and common-sense perspective--and it will continue to exist from that perspective.

Thus, every generation is defined by the struggle before them.

Our struggle is to get our community back together again to fight for and to receive payment for services rendered by our ancestors during the more than 400 years we have been on American shores. It is called 'Reparations.'

In short, and to put it simply, America: I've come to claim my 40 acres and a mule-with interest, and in cash, please. I am not alone, and we aren't going away. For those future African Americans who want to become elected to office representing either political party, or, who want to be regarded as 'leaders' in our community, where stand you on this matter of Reparations.

This is a two-pronged struggle for those of my generation to be involved. We must get our community ready to receive what is due us-while at the same time persistently pressuring the Federal Government to settle up by our votes. Our rallying cry is going to be even more simplistic.

"America - Check, please!"

Reparations-Black History For a New Millennium: The issue of just, fair and reasonable compensation for services taken from my people during the period of 1619 to 1865 is not a new issue. The tab is into the trillions of dollars and the note has come due. We were promised, by the Federal Government, 40 Acres and a Mule. We have not received either.

When famed lawyer Johnnie Cochran successfully represented his clients against the forces of the Walt Disney empire and won a judgment in excess of $220 million in court, August 2000, no one dared say that his clients were not entitled to that jury award. They were injured, and, under U.S. law, were entitled to compensation. When Cochran's clients will actually get their money-or how much of the judgment they will ever see is not important. A court of law ruled that they were entitled. A jury heard the evidence and made a decision that an injury did occur. It was not a racial decision, but an economic decision!

Yes brothers, I do believe that we as a people need to spend more of our annual gross worth of $500 billion-plus among ourselves. We need to come together to create our own businesses.

Angela Watkins is working on writing for 400 sites within a 12 month period. http://www.skynary.com/awatkins. Angela Watkins is also a cousin to Rev Clay Evans, as well as a Board Member/Historian of The Clay Evans Scholarship Fund.

Our own educational opportunities (http://www.bicodiversity.com) Diversity Training and our own capital pool (Clay Evans Scholarship Fund; Rev. Clay Evans is the founder and the Scholarship Fund is 25 years old and three scholarships every year are given out in Brownsville, TN, where he is from - email: revclayevans@yahoo.com). We have the talent, the drive, and the ability to get this done.

However, the real struggle--once we do come together--is to focus our people on receiving payment for services rendered. It is not going to come overnight, but it is going to come if we remain true to Jesus Christ, and fight for the cause of justice. And the church-and it's Pastors-must speak up!

Here is, in a nutshell, some Black History that many of us - even those who claim to be teaching multiculturalism - have forgotten. African-American men showed up for every war and crisis that this nation has faced. African-American women watched their men suffer indignity after indignity, slaughter after slaughter, for defending our adopted homeland.

"America - Check Please."

A Few Recent Examples To Support My Point: July 2000, a settlement to roughly 600,000 claimants, worldwide, for financial double-dealing done to Holocaust survivors by Swiss banks during the Second World War was approved in New York at a cost of $1.75 billion plus.

The U.S. State Department is involved in negotiating yet another settlement to Holocaust survivors who provided free labor to German Companies during their internment in Concentration Camps. Several other countries and corporations are involved in setting up monies for this second settlement package.

1988--The US Congress puts forth an apology and $1.2 billion ($20,000 each) to descendants of those Japanese Americans forcibly detained in U.S. Concentration Camps during the Second World War.

Countries such as Canada and Australia have also settled claims against different groups of people they have wronged, and they have paid cash to go along with their apologies. American Democrats and Republicans have not gone beyond the talking stage to determine if African-Americans are really owed anything for some two and a half centuries of slavery. The Reparations issue is barely mentioned in U.S. history books. "America - Check Please."

From A Biblical Point of View

The Bible is very plain on the subject of slavery. During the Roman era of the New Testament, slaves were to be treated well by slave owners and not abused-and vice versa-especially if one, or both were of the Christian faith.

The same was held for the employer-employee relationship.

But, as for the matter of Reparations, we must head back to the Old Testament and the Book of Exodus. The Hebrews were held in slavery for some 430 years. It took God, via Moses; and ten plagues to break the captives out. But on the way out, the former slaves spoiled Egypt. The descendants of slaves were compensated for their bondage. Read it for yourself.

In short, the Bible teaches that a man-and a people-must be properly compensated for services rendered. Otherwise God steps in and levels that nation through plagues, and a host of other curses such as natural disasters, diseases, famine, social, marital and economic chaos.

We have to push for what is due us in the form of compensation, and we have to build ourselves spiritually, morally, and economically to have some place to put that compensation once it does arrive, for the betterment of all, and as a proper remembrance of the sacrifices of not only our ancestors, but the Lord Jesus Christ, as His Tithe comes off the top. "America - Check Please!"


Now, there may be some who take exception to what I have written, but the bottom line is that it is an issue that is NOT going to go away. If America can make sure those who DON'T live in this country get compensated, and WON'T take care of her citizens who were brought here, as ancestors against their will, then the problem will grow worse...not better.

AMERICA--CHECK PLEASE!

Mike Ramey

Mike,

Your reply to this question was nothing short of extraordinary. This is hard to refute. The biblical response was the icing on the cake. I also read a poem written by Blakverb.
I can tell by the way the poem is worded that he is angry and
coming from a position of emotional frustration. Personally, I can relate to this, because it frustrates me so, when whites express this "get over it" attitude or they'll say it not fair to make me pay for something I didn't do.

Well, the way I see it...I'm not trying to make YOU (the white individual) pay, I only want the american govt' to pay for the atrocities it permitted for so long. If you are apart of the american govt', that is not my fault. I have nothing against you personally, so please do not take it personally.

What's YOUR take on the excuses that whites are giving blacks?
Two of the excuses are:

1. My family was not here during the slave era or the 60's

2.It's not fair for me to have to pay YOU anything.


Mike, you have pulled me pretty much, out of the gray, but still I wonder, what type of ramifications, this will have on interracial couples. In fact many blacks are married to white spouses who don't believe anything is own to blacks.

Question: Isn't it possible that a race war of some kind will get started if we are compensated?

This is going to be a long battle. With so many black men, becoming 'soft' on issues concerning race, what strategy should the AAs use in order to bring this about???

Brother,

this is on point!!! I was directed here by another member and am glad that I made it. Yes, we will get our jut due. we need to stay diligent with our focus clear.

"America...check please"

God Bless

Mike this is an outstanding essay expressing this point of view. Thank you.

BE

Mike, you said:But, as for the matter of Reparations, we must head back to the Old Testament and the Book of Exodus. The Hebrews were held in slavery for some 430 years. It took God, via Moses; and ten plagues to break the captives out. But on the way out, the former slaves spoiled Egypt. The descendants of slaves were compensated for their bondage. Read it for yourself.


Me:
I see where you are coming from on this Mike, but the Hebrews who were set free, are the ones who were compensated, not their children's, children, children. In my case, I am not a slave, I am a descendant of slaves. Tell me, why should poor whites who had nothing to do with what happened hundreds of years ago, pay me for something that they had absolutely no hand in. See, America is a melting pot now. Should the asian americans pay? Should the mexican americans pay? Do you see where I am coming from? These and a few other things are keeping me in the gray area concerning reparations. Your insight on this would be much appreciated.

Joyce

I appreciate your being in the Questioning mode. Let's see if I can come up with the answers...

The Hebrews who were set free, parallell US in several respects:

1) They originally entered the land peaceably under a good ruler, as free citizens. Later, when the ruler changed, they were enslaved. When SOME of us first got HERE in 1619, we were NOT slaves, but indentured servants. As those ancestors worked, intermarried, and grew in number, according to Tony Brown, they were enslaved because the ruling class at the time wanted/needed a free labor base. That's all slavery boils down to: Those in power wanting someone to work for them for nothing. In the tradition of tribal culture of many lands, the vanquished were eventually 'enslaved' to work for the victors.

2) When they spoiled the land upon their release, the Hebrews 'spoiled' the place: They were allowed to take with them assets of the Egyptians to their hearts content! While the current Egyptian class could say "Well, WE didn't enslave you..." the 'act' of enslavement was practiced and put forth by the Egyptian rulers and government. Thus, the government was responsible for the act, and the 'people' of Egypt paid, through their giving the Hebrews the right to 'take what they wanted and leaving'. The Hebrews knew that this was a 'token' payment for generation after generation of slavery, but God did NOT say only take X amount...He said that they 'spoiled' the land. A free people needed some kind of cash and goods to take them where HE was directing them to go.

3) When Joseph took Mary and Jesus out of their land to 'hide out' in Egypt (during the Herod occupation), the gifts given to the child Jesus included cash, in the form of gold, frankencense and myrrh, to get and keep the family financially secure during their life 'on the run'. When Joseph brought the family back, there had to have been enough in the way of assets to keep the family going until the Lord called them back from Egypt.

4) The NT book of Titus also deals with the issue of employer/employee, slave/owner relations. Just and fair compensation does not mean that every wrong is going to be addressed. The Lord set the standard, and it was up to the obedient to carry it out.

5) Our struggle for Reparations is with the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. It was the one that offered 'Fourty Acres and a Mule' and reniged on the promisary note. It was the one, through Lincoln's 'Emancipation Proclamation' that took responsibility for our 'enslavement'. Yes, Reparations have been paid to blacks who set up towns in Rosewood, and Tulsa (and had them burned to the ground by whites) by the respective state governments. IF we are going to get paid, it is going to have to come from the Federal Treasury! That way, it represents compensation for a 'sin' committed by a nation, on a people. Nations ARE going to be judged, and held to account by God for their actions.

6) Keep in mind the passage of time. WE have only been 'allowed' to read for a little over a hundred years. Thanks to the Civil Rights movement, coupled with the Civil Rights act, we have been 'allowed' to earn a living in the economic mainstream. For a people to go from nearly zero in earning capacity, to over 600 billion in some 40 years is nothing short of a miracle.

7) On the matter of the 'interracial' question, well, the children from those unions are still black citizens. There are 'some' folk that believe that one drop of black STILL means black! So, THEY would be (the children, that is) entitled to compensation.

Bottom line: The US Government allowed this system to go on for as long as it did (some 135 years, I believe) and, with more and more proof coming out about how OUR ancestors built Washington DC without fair compensation makes the issue MORE of a Federal matter, rather than an individual matter.

Plus, the Federal government has compensated the American Indian with the Reservation, and the Chinese coolies and the Japanese interrment victims. WE are still wating. Congress settled with those other cultures LONG ago.

America--Check please!

Mike Ramey

PS: The Smithsonian and the Library of Congress have, on record, interviews with former slaves, documents of who owned who, etc. As part of the CCC project during the Great Depression, a lot of those records were preserved. All the feds have to do is look up the information, aided by individual information kept by various families. No, they won't get ALL of us...but it IS a start!

Thank you for replying to my questions. I agree with your point on the children of blacks, whether half or not. The amount of money being asked, goes into the trillions...that's a fact.
I believe this could possibly bankrupt our nation...what do you think?

You said: PS: The Smithsonian and the Library of Congress have, on record, interviews with former slaves, documents of who owned who, etc. As part of the CCC project during the Great Depression, a lot of those records were preserved. All the feds have to do is look up the information, aided by individual information kept by various families. No, they won't get ALL of us...but it IS a start!


Are you aware that blacks also owned slaves. Many blacks owned black slaves right here in America. Should the decendants of black slaves owners get a check too? If so, how can this be fair, seeing that they are the descendants of slave owners.

In 1830, in the United States, more than 3,000 free blacks owned
slaves. Free blacks owned more than 10,000 slaves in Louisana,
Maryland, Virginia and South Carolina alone in 1830...a documented fact.
Shameful...but true.

You or I could be the descendant of a free black who owned slaves. Do you see the unfairness of this? I can only trace my family back 5 generations so I don't know if I'm a descendant of a black slave or a black slave master. :confused:

If my memory serves me correct, there were some 4,500 to 5,000 blacks who owned slaves (based on the last US Census Count in the 1800s). BUT the question still remains...what of the documented cases that the Federal government has on file within its own vaults? I would rather see folk whom we KNOW have actual proof, rather than a blanket settlement.

The payment of Reparations can be made to us. All the feds would have to do is filter out those who came over as legal immigrants (Among African Amerians), plus weed those out who have already received some kind of federal compesation. If NASA can spend billions to get a probe to Mars, money CAN be diverted from the federal treasury for this activity.

Plus, I might add, there are billions of dollars the feds have set aside in the form of 'slush funds' that could be released for such a thing as this.

One other item...Reparations are based on the promise made by the federal govrenment in the original 'fourty acres and a mule' ideology. Factor in current market rates, and the payments can be in cash, a combination of cash, tax moratoriums, and scholarships to colleges we want to send our kids to, or redeemable treasury notes.

If we can come up with a bailout package for Chrysler, the Airlines, and WTC, the feds can come up with what it takes to settle up with us. An apology letter to each family, and cash/cash combo would NOT hurt my feelings.

Mike Ramey

BTW We've got the computers and the scientists already on the federal payroll. It's about time that they did some meaningful work.

Bottom line: The Feds set the precident with the Indians, the Chinese and the Japanese. It's our turn NOW!

America--Check Please!

Just happened to think of this one...

The tab I last heard was between $3 to 10 TRILLION dollars.

No, the US Won't go bankrupt by paying us what is ours. The Feds control the presses. They would likely go with some kind of cash settlement first, followed by other incentives to 'settle up' my claim.

For example, how about my NOT having to pay federal taxes for LIFE! Or, at least a 25 year moratorium for ALL of us! That would be fair to me!

It matters NOT to me HOW it could be negotiated. The promissary note is due. If YOU owe a creditor, the creditor doesn't care how the money gets there...as long as it does!

:eek:

America--Check Please!

Mike Ramey

Chi ching, chi ching :lol:

Somehow though Mike, it is not coming across so simple. However, if they give me a check, I don't believe I will turn my back and say no. It's just that so many things come into play that reeks of unfairness in some ways. If I could get past us...yes US having slaves ourselves , then maybe I could come ourt of the gray on this. I believe that education...a free education, would be more befitting. That way all would benefit better. How about 'no income tax' payments for 20 years? :)

Joyce, I know. I feel you on this one, sis:heart:

It shocked me as well when I found out that some of us were Slave Owners. But, I also have found that there is not that much in the way of information as to how WE treated EACH OTHER during those times.

Nevertheless, I'm not all that anxious about getting 'paid'. Instead of the Feds continuing to 'search' for a people of color to either 'replace us' (like the Vietnamese, Japanese, and now the Latinos) or 'shame us' (like the Indians) the dominant culture in the USA is going to have to make PEACE with us and ACKNOWLEDGE the injustices done to us.

If it is in the form of cash, a cash/moratorium tax/apology combo, or some other means, the time is rapidly approaching where the USA is going to have to deal with her Black citizens. This new day, which has the USA dealing with a culture from the motherland that they DO NOT understand, is forcing some serious questioning in DC. It's No accident that the Bush administration has KEY Blacks where they are!

The way is opening for this country to make a full apology.

If it takes US continuing to state: America--Check Please to get their attention, well...so be it.

One way or the other, God is not going to Bless America, until she takes care of first things first.

That being US!

Mike Ramey

Just happened to think of this one...

Remember the problems that the Hebrews had against tiny little Ai, after their defeat of Jerico in the Book of Joshua?

Ai whupped Hebrew butt because there was SIN in the Camp!

That parallells what we are seeing in the present! Because America has not dealt with first things first, smaller nations are causing the USA to quake in its collective boots.

Now, America has brought down Germany, Japan, and Russia. But America couldn't whip Vietnam, or the Middle East. Not in a decisive way in which it marched to victory in WWII.

SIN in the camp is the reason.

Until the USA and the Feds take care of dealing with US, she shall be plagued by smaller lands.

The Bible--the roadmap to the past, present, and future.

Mike Ramey

America does have some unfinished business. I do believe that America is plagued with the probs she has because of her refusal to repent of the sins of the past concerned her fellow americans...even in the past recent years...my life time.

You Said:
Nevertheless, I'm not all that anxious about getting 'paid'. Instead of the Feds continuing to 'search' for a people of color to either 'replace us' (like the Vietnamese, Japanese, and now the Latinos) or 'shame us' (like the Indians) the dominant culture in the USA is going to have to make PEACE with us and ACKNOWLEDGE the injustices done to us.

The failed attempts to replace us or shame us, always felled back on them. Bringing drugs into the black community, depicting blacks negatively in the media, experiments, large proportions of black men in wars, AIDS (1 in 50 black men), prisons (in florida more black men in prison than in the population), and on and on.

Never did they figure the black man to simply breed their tactics/problems back into the white race, through interracial marriages, rap music (more white kids buy), selling their drugs back to their own children, black grandchildren instead of white.
So America very well needs to face up or she will wind up face down. Today, more than ever before, blacks are entiwined and knitted into the economy of our country, so much so, that if we were to stop just half of our spending, we would very near bankrupt the nation. We ain't the po little negroes we use to be and if we were willing to inconvience ourselves for even a month,the confederate flag and all other symbols of injustice to blacks would come down from all state represented positions.
Apologies would flood us from all points of America.

I believe our major prob is unity among ourselves, looking out for each other, respecting each other, supporting each other, young against old, black men blaming their problems on white folks and black women. Bottomline...God is not in the hearts of black people the way He once was.

Until we as a peole (not a individuals) began to respect our self, how can we even began to expect others to respect us as a people. :confused:

Your Sister :heart:

Joyce

What truly cracks me up is that we don't see how much others imitate us.

If WE are sooooooooooooo inferior, then why do other races 'kill' themselves to LOOK like us, talk like us, and dance like us?:bomb:

Seems to me, if a person thinks someone else is inferior, you wouldn't want to imitate them.

Just a thought.

:x:

Mike Ramey

You said:
It shocked me as well when I found out that some of us were Slave Owners. But, I also have found that there is not that much in the way of information as to how WE treated EACH OTHER during those times.


If we judge by the way we treat each other today, it would be hard to come to the conclusion that we consistently, treated our own fairly. Moreover, slavery would not have been sucessful anyway, without the help of rival Africans right there in Africa.

Still, I know for a fact that there needs to be some kind of closure on this situation with us and America. Reparations along with an apology, is the only thing that will bring closure. So therefore, whatever that may be, whether in the form of education (which would be best) or in the form of money or tax benefits, I believe strongly now (out of the gray :) ) that something has to be done for the sake of closure, but not necessarily for slavery only. I believe it should be done for the sake of what blacks went thru AFTER they were no longer slaves. The American govt. (not white people) owes us an apology for allowing this to go on for so long...unchecked. Now it's time for a check:).

Will we ever get, even an apology? I don't know and to tell the truth (it might be pride) at this point I don't really care. I know what it is to MAKE a child apologize for a wrong done. After you've, managed to get it out of him, it's like, was it for real, was the child sincere...if not, why do I need empty words.

Anyway, I appreciate this dialogue we've had on this subject. Of course, I'm not holding my breath, because I may be dead tomorrow. So I sho ain't including any reparations in my plans or my children's plans for the future. Nonetheless, I know for sure that closure will NOT take place until there is some type of reparation and apology put in place.



Joyce

Exactly!

When laws are passed to keep a people down, the government MUST be held accountable. That's why the Reparations issue will always be one for the FEDS to deal with...not Individuals.

WE are the descendants of those who provided that 'free labor', and we are entitled, by law, to those 'punative damages' our ancestors suffered.

Is it going to happen overnight? NO!
But, is it a struggle that will define OUR generation, and the generations that come AFTER us? YES!

WE are going to have to keep communicating amongst ourselves and teach our children about this.

America-Check Please!

Mike Ramey

Funny thing about the Reparations debate. MOST whites DON'T understand where I am coming from, or where other Black folk are coming from.

However, if we flipped the pages of history, and showed them that the first slaves in America were whites sent here from England as 'free labor' because they were prisoners, and attached 'their' plight to ours...you would see white folk in the streets marching for Reparations.

It's all a matter of perspective.

I find it highly interesting that the same crowd that wants to take their children 'out' of public education and 'home school' them is the same crowd that has a 'meltdown' on the subject of Reparations.

Just some food for thought!

Mike Ramey

As much as the mainstream press has been trying to 'duck' this issue, more and more black folk are coming forward, suing companies and organizations that have profited off the work of OUR ancestors, and are shocked and amazed when we start DEMANDING proper compensation.

Many of these companies point to 'bad' economic times, saying that there is NO possible way for them to 'settle up' with us.

I beg to differ!

If NOT now, WHEN?

*Washington, DC had many of her buildings built by our ancestors, PLUS it was laid out...stone by stone...by Dr. Benjamin Banneker...a black man!

*What happened to the MILLIONS of dollars made from the sales of OUR people on the AUCTION BLOCK?

*WHAT HAPPENED to the MILLIONS of dollars made from the transporatation of OUR people to this COUNTRY?

The truth is OUT THERE America!

AMERICA--CHECK PLEASE!

Mike Ramey

Great post, sherykah. Lots of additional info that folk needed to see. And, if I MIGHT add, the information is OUT there on the WWW. Some groups have already gotten lawyers and are going after individual companies. Some individuals are also doing the same thing.

But, I am waiting for that suit by Jonnie Cochran and company, aided by Congressional Resolution by Rep. John Conyers (from Michigan) to clear the way for the Federal Government to 'pay up'.

I find it interesting that, if we go back to 1968, and check out the Democrats and Republicans who were President, NOT ONE is backing Reparations. The Democrats (who have held Congress longer than the Republicans, but are JUST as dangerous...with the exception of John Conyers, D-Michigan:toast: ) and Republicans AS A PARTY won't support Reparations....all except John Conyers.

Former President Bill Clinton had the chance TWICE to support Reparations but DID NOT DO IT! :eek:

In EVERY election, Black folk are going to have to pressure the candidates to go on the record about this issue...and HOLD them to it. A HOST of US cities have supported this item. Some states have paid off.

Bottom line. My beef is with the Feds.

America--CHECK PLEASE:flamet:

Mike Ramey

Hey Mike,

I didn't know you are covering this area. i'll catch up.

i was discussing this with a friend the other day and he says he doesn't want any "payoffs" from white folx.

if i was a white person i would really want to know why I, should pay. it seems as if we are playing the guilt factor. many are not going have that guilt because they aren't personally responsible for slavery.

okay, i'm going to catch up.

The beauty of the Reparations issue is that WE are finally discussing it! AND realize that we have been left out of the process.

My point: If alllll the other races in this country have been paid for injuries done to them by the federal government (and, they have), and if the federal government has been 'helping others' get theirs internationally (i.e. the Holocaust), then its HIGH time that the federal government deal justly with the African Americans here on THESE shores.

AMERICA, CHECK PLEASE!

Mike Ramey

i agree!

i think we need the support of those others who are already received reparations. and yes, US needs to check itself. it helped the jewish holocaust victims, survivors get paid, but excuses it's not history of the black holocaust.

i was also thinking that it's was easier for the jewish survivors to get reparations because there was more clearn evidence. like the numbers burned or tattooed on their bodies. some of the japanense that were imprisoned were still alive or easier for the descendents to be traced.

with us, we can only trace our own lineage back so far. that also is an atrocity that occurred because of slavery in this country. we lost our family names, our family members.

you mentioned that the discussion is taking place. well its not really being heard. we have conservative blacks, the bootlickers telling other whites that we don't deserve reparations. afterall, they have their affluent blacks to use as prove. that and the wellpaid athletes and "sharecropping" rappers to help substantiate their claim.

Sherykah, i was reading my favorite black local weekly. it also mentioned that fact that the march for reparations received little if no coverage at all. i know we had several busloads and carloads that headed to washington. but there was no coverage from my local press about the march back on August 16th.

The 'Great Reparations' debate has been going on for a long time, Thand. Unfortunately, there is a 'media blackout' (pardon the pun) on this, because the mainstream press do not want us to 'see' what is out there.

Best site in the world on the Reparations isssue is www.swagga.com, the Afrocentric Experience site. It has the best selection of articles from around the world, and from the USA.

They BEAT the blackout.

Maybe I mentioned this before; during the Great Depression, the Census Bureau...under the CCC project, did a massive information roundup on Black slave families. Much of that information is still public record. PBS posted some of that info, but it should still be on the Bureau's website through Washington.

I got on board this train about two years ago. It's amazing how much stuff is out there, and how many peoples of color in their various countries are pressing their governments to do the right thing and compensate. We've already seen compensation efforts for Rosewood and the Black area of Tulsa that was destroyed--twice. However, these atrocities took place in the 20th century.

It's gonna take a while before we get back to what happened in the 18th and 19th Centuries...but the efforts are ongoing.

Yes, there was a Black Holocaust...in MORE than one country. Info is JUST NOW coming out on how people of color were mistreated in the Nazi Camps. Overseas articles released in 1997 documented the mistreatment.

I don't take away anything from Jewish, Indian, and Oriental peoples who have managed to 'get their due' from Uncle Sam. But, NOW it's our turn. The precident has been set.

AMERICA--CHECK PLEASE!

Mike Ramey

Overseas, the Brits are doing what the American Press is not...keeping an eye on the lawsuits that are starting to surface from African Americans who have been 'stiffed' for monies due to services WE have provided.

On 10/1/02, the UK Independent put up this article, entitled "American Slave Descendants Sue For Compensation". This suit is going on against more than a few American companies.

The exact link is http://news.independent.co.uk/world/Americas/story.jsp? story=338352

Now we are ALSO starting to see US come up with the evidence needed to go to court:eek: And, you know that eventually, more such cases are going to head to court...or get settled out of court.

America--Check Please!

Mike Ramey

...and many of those companies are still around. If Johnnie Cochran, et al. wanted a suit with great 'legs' this would be a solid area to dive into...and then some!

Mike Ramey

While I have posted on the Hispanic issue on Kem's board, there is only one other reason why this 'new minority' group has surfaced.

To get US to quiet down about Reparations.

It's a smoke screen.

The only reason that this has surfaced is because Black folk are making progress to get what is due us in the form of Reparations. Don't think for a moment that this isn't the bottom line goal of having the Hispanic numbers released now.

The rallying cry is still the same...no matter the numbers.

AMERICA...CHECK PLEASE!

Mike Ramey

I am all for reparations, reparations through education is one way to really help African-Americans. A good education will help us make pivotal moves in society. It is a shame how affirmative-action has come under attack now. I was watching Donahue show a few times when Affirmative Action was the topic. It was bad enough to see some black folks saying that blacks just need to try harder. Who is this black republican Armstrong!!! We need reparations that we can benefit from. We need education on investing,stock market, to build black wealth because we all know that everybody speaks the same language when it comes down to money.

pay mine to the order of cash[smile]..but seriously folks the reparation question is gonna stay that[a question]and if this explosive issue is ever addressed by the government[don't hold your breath]it should be in the form of[education..health care]...and black people i certainly hope that none of you are even in your wildest dreams thinking about any kind of cash settlement[how much and do darkskinned blacks get more than lightskinned blacks,ect]reparations[if any form]will not happen in our lifetime!

Hi Mike,

Just the other day, I read a poem written by Bruce a.ka. Heartbeart. It was on the subject matter of reparations. The poem made complete sense to me. Yet, I am in a fix between two views. I am still in the "gathering information and insight" mode, between I also understand the view of others who believe AAs deserve it. I don't know what to think. Thoughts within say they don't owe us anything, I want to work for what I get. I don't want nothing given to me, if the ones giving it are being forced to give, rather than giving from a heart that is truly sorry for what the government allowed to happen to it's fellow americans.

Then the opposing thoughts say: Why not, others have being compensated for treatment to their fore fathers and mother. And though this happened to the slaves, I can't leave out the fact of the total injustice that I (I grew up in the south during the civil rights movement) and my parents suffered just recently, (not 200 years ago), should be compensated for. The hangings, the beatings, the rapes, the verbal slanders, the racial profiling, the water fountains, (all black/white) the restaurants, the restrooms, the german shephards, the schools and on and on. :mad:

I told Heartbeat, that I hated being a 'gray' person on this issue, :confused:because I am basically a black and white person. Either I'm for a thang or against it.

What I would like to know is what are YOUR views on this issue and why. Thanks. To read Bruce's poem pleaseClick Here to read: Reparations...Fools Gold (http://www.destee.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9953&perpage=10&pagenumber=1)

Joyce


I can understand those who say, it had nothing to do with them, even though they still benefit from the privileges. But what about 'Jim Crow' and Benign Neglect. Both were tacitly racist and specifically targeted at us.

I can understand those who say, it had nothing to do with them, even though they still benefit from the privileges. But what about 'Jim Crow' and Benign Neglect. Both were tacitly racist and specifically targeted at us.

Exactly.

People born and raised before and including the 50s and 60s suffered forms of racism that were blatently obvious through Jim Crow and segregation. Many black people suffering through that are still living today

I don't want em........I don't want another handout from the gov't.......whether it's owed to us or not is a question I don't have an answer to.....I don't want their apology, money, nothing just leave my ***** be and let me scratch out my own.....





MississippiRed

I don't want em........I don't want another handout from the gov't.......whether it's owed to us or not is a question I don't have an answer to.....I don't want their apology, money, nothing just leave my ***** be and let me scratch out my own.....





MississippiRed

Thats word sip. they can keep their blood money, their reign is coming to an end. us black people can get ours on our own. we can own cities like N.O. detroit, cleveland, d.c., if we educate our children and and elect scrupulous leaders. f-the government i dont want their false pitty.

Exactly.

People born and raised before and including the 50s and 60s suffered forms of racism that were blatently obvious through Jim Crow and segregation. Many black people suffering through that are still living today


Jim Crow is still alive and well. Pay me for that