I've been pondering this question all day...I dont' know why...

but if you believe that everything is pre-determined...then how can prayer change things?

this may sound stupid...but someone help me out here

I am no scholar and by far I am not Saint but for instance; I always thought what would have happend if Jospeh the step father of Jesus/ what if he did not listen to the angel in his dream about King Herod and how he was going to kill the baby boys in that town,
what would happen?
Would Jesus then be saved?
who would he be saved by?
Would he have been killed by King Herod and reborn?
Would there be a supernatural happening and Jesus lifted by the spirit and taken to a location and fed by strangers?

I beleive that even if Jesus's parents were not obedient he would have been saved even if he had to be kidnapped in the night while they were sleeping, or the angel would have spoken with a prophet of God, my point is Jesus would have been saved regardless because he was on a mission for mankind.

In the Bible there was a man who fought in battle , he trusted God for every battle and won big time, then he got sick and instead of praying and trusting in God he trusted in the doctors, he soon died. The bible said he was a great man waxed strong in battle, only if he had trusted in the Lord as times before he would not have dies an early death.

There was another instance whereas there was a man named Hezikaiah and he was a man of God but death was on him; however, he cried out to God and begged God to let him live and God told him to put a fig on his ailement and he did it and belvied God and the Lord let him live 15 years more.

You have things predetermined but you must pray to keep God's plan in your life because the devil is right there with demons working against the plan God has for you and if you pray, than the angels that are appointed to you will go to battle and war against the devil and his demons(the ones who are working against you) for instance: if you are married and God has given you your mate, you are predetermined(destined) to be together the devil does not want your child to get here because he will be a christian that becomes a basket ball player then a preacher. That one child will bring in millions of souls, so he does not want you to get toether to raise him so he will not have a healthy develpment(anything to stunt this child's mentality) so he won't be a tool for God in the future. Satan sends Sally the woman of his dreams, if you are in tune with God the Lord will warn you of Sally before she has a true hold on your man , you can prevent it because God may show you Sallly in a dream, your prayer and fasting will prevent Sally to swoop in for the kill, if you don't pray, while the enemy is constantly working against you, you may think every thing is ok and he's starting to have dinner with her, the feelings grow and division is mounting, he is gone and you don't even feel it until it's too late. Prayer would have helped the angels in heaven to give her a fight, make a car accidnet happen that she would end up doing paper work that night they were intimate, you know God has a way of fouling up the devils plans for you and yours.

I meant to say the night they would have been intimate God could cause a car accident to make them end up doing paper work and he would see that as a bad Omen and step off, God can make the situation feel uncomfortable for him and he will not want her.

thanx for responding!

Hi Story and Abisha! :wave:

I think it's the devil that has us to even think such thoughts.

That our prayers might be worthless.

He's a Liar.

:heart:

Destee

what a great question story.

My thought s on that is ... if you TRULY believe that EVERYTHING is predetermined then I would think that prayer would not be necessary. In that case, having that belief and sending up a prayer I think would just be a confirmation that things are as "pre-determined" :)

I think most of us don't truly believe that everything is predetermined, some but not all, so prayer is necessary is some cases.

It's great to see you Destee , and you have just STOMPED the devil's ego...Amen you are so right he wants us to believe God will not listen to us and our prayers are nothing but a puff of air, But Oh Buddy he is so wrong,God not only hears but answers, if we give him time. We can change plenty of things that were negatively in store for us. Many time we may pray and may not even know what we are praying for, but when the 911 happened, I heard there were some people that was suppose to be in those buildings but they called in on that day, or was late. Satan has things predetermined, but because of our prayers we escape danger seen and unseen, and by prayer we get blessings seen and unseen, and before you know it you just become BLESSED and you wonder, man how did I get that? Well either you prayed or someone else prayed for you without your knowldge.

Prayer should change YOU more than it does the situations or things. Praying more to change the situation or things is selfish. One needs to pray for deliverance in viewing and feeling different about the situation. This helps in dealing with it. Many individuals spend their time wanting deliverance from the wrong thing, only to remain babies by not being able to handle the mountains in their lives.

kebah

i hear you....i have been praying Lord..."If you just change Me for the situation...I know that it is not too much to handle...help Me"

my thoughts exactly Kebah and Cheril.....exactly!

Well let the Church say AMEN!!! :D

Part of OUR problem is that we won't WAIT for prayers that we have prayed to 'kick in' and change us and/or the situation. We are often ignorant of the devil and his devices.

For example, Daniel fasted and prayed for 20 days. On day 21, one of the angels of the Lord showed up and told Daniel that his prayer was answered on day one...but the answer was BLOCKED by Satan and his crew. Daniel was given the answer, but the angel had to then run back and continue the fight.

It is our perserverance in prayer that allows God to make the changes for HIS glory, and not OURS.

And, while on this subject, we have to ask ourselves if we have a true connection to Christ WHEN we pray. Sure, folk can pray to a tree if they want to.:eek: But they forget that one MUST have a right relationship with God, on God's terms, in order for true prayer to be answered. Read my piece "Jabez and the Sucker Play" for more on this.

There ARE prayers that I have prayed that have NOT come to pass as of yet. Nevertheless, I haven't given up on them, nor do I intend to! Plus, are WE praying in REALITY? Is the answer going to 'kill' us, or 'fatten' us for the slaughter?

Remember, God has three responses to prayer: Yes, No, and Wait! The Hebrews that were wandering in the OT after deliverance from Egypt prayed for meat, even though God was feeding them with HIS menu. The meat came, and while the people were eating--GOD allowed them to die while the meat was in their mouths.

Pretty powerful example, huh?

I'm no 'bible scholar' either. Just a bible student. But the subject of prayer is one that is deep.

Mike Ramey

Originally posted by Cheril N Clarke
i hear you....i have been praying Lord..."If you just change Me for the situation...I know that it is not too much to handle...help Me"

You know you preachin up in here!! :eek: :eek: :D

Kebah this is no disrespec to you but the Lord never said this:Prayer should change YOU more than it does the situations or things. Praying more to change the situation or things is selfish.

He prayed in the Garden of Gethsemine,he prayed before eating,he prayed to change the dead to make them alive, and well again, he prayed the blind girl and she recieved her sight, he prayed for the lame and they were able to walk, he prayed for a man that had legions of demons, and if you pray for others than you'd better pray for yourself as well, and God never said that prayer for yourself or anyone else is selfish, all prayer is ... is communication with the Father, that is like talking on the phone with your love one, or having an IM(instant messege with a freind, you know communication, that is what God wants us to do, communicate with him . He made us to worship him and if communicating with him when I am happy or sad or need something is selfish to you, oh well... No one is God but him and if he says it's ok to communicate with him and ask him for anything, and it will be given ,then I am going to utilize and excercise my rights as his child, to ask , praise, and jump up and down, sing. If I don't ask God in prayer then you may not get what you want,God says ask and you shall receive, that is the formula.

Abisha ... I'm feel'n you Sis ... my thoughts exactly. Why limit God? Why settle for only a little bit of his love and consideration, when He is the Creator of ALL THINGS! ... Why not ask for, trust and believe Him for ALL THINGS?

Personally, my prayers include all things, every single thing in my life.

:heart:

Destee

As a matter of fact, years ago, when I had a job! :) Someone came in after lunch and told me that I had a flat tire. I was like dangg ... cause I knew my spare was flat too. So I began to pray. Asking God to fix the flat tire. I had not seen my car with the flat tire, so I began believing God that when I got off work that evening, I'd go outside and my tire would be fine. I prayed fervently.

There was a lady that I worked with and I told her what I was doing, a God fearing woman mind you. As soon as I told her, she said, God aint gonna fix your tire girl. That aint nothing you be asking God for. Stuff like that. It just killed my spirit, my hope. I stopped believing God for my miracle. That evening when I went to my car, the tire was flat.

I will forever believe that I let that woman steal my blessing, my miracle, from me. Since that day, I have not let someone else's lack of faith hinder my asking and believing God for all things, because He can do ALL THINGS.

:heart:

Destee

... and I know it's not forgotten that prayer is talking to God. He wants to communicate with us and if we are not open to Him and won't listen, how can He help us? He gives us choices, He doesn't impose Himself. He's our Father. Don't you want your children to always communicate with you, even if you're mad with them or they've done wrong? It's beyond situational, it's the broad spectrum of our life: God wants to be in it but He'll wait until we ask Him in. (just like you can't push yourself in you kid's lives.)
Prayer changes things, lives, situations, us.... You won't know until you try. -7:spinstar:

WildFlower you must be an Angel from heaven, that was wonderfully worded!!!

@Destee

That is an extraordinary way of expressing the faith God wants us to have in him, I read in God's word that once there was a man who prayed , because he was in battle with his opponent and he did not know the hills or the area, he and his men would have lost the battle because since they did not know the area, they could not fight in the hills at night. He prayed and asked God to let the sun stand still, and God held the sun for him, until they were the victor in the fight. God will do the unthinkable if we only beleive and like the bro. posted earlier(MIKE RAMEY)we have to Wait!!!! That was wonderful as well Bro. Mike Ramey... I'm loving all this positive energy:lol:

Originally posted by Abisha
[B]Kebah this is no disrespec to you but the Lord never said this:Prayer should change YOU more than it does the situations or things. Praying more to change the situation or things is selfish.

My post merely discusses the majority of the prayer.

Where did I say the "Lord said" anything? I repeat, praying MORE to change the situation or things IS selfish. No doubt. The rest of your post, and others posts, are merely assumptions about what I said/meant, so I'll not comment on them.

If you think you should spend more time praying for all that stuff, and not more time in praying about getting YOU together, than more power to ya. What good is praying more for those things and situations, if when they're changed, you have no idea what to do or how to handle the things or the change? Even Solomon took wisdom over riches (things).

The Messiah (Yashua) spent many hours in prayer. Why? For the situations? No. That prayer time changed HIM more than the situations. He was able to deal with more adverse situations AND things than you and I could ever stomach. He had a mission, and through fasting and prayer, he was able to fullfill it. He was eternal minded, not temporal. Prayer AND fasting is more for the believer, not the situation, or things. Prayer should strengthen your faith, lifefstyle, promotes growth, etc. Why? Because it should be working on YOU. Isn't Yashua the blueprint for a christian?

I hope this clears any misunderstandings,

kebah

Kebah, i completely understood what you said about praying for God to change you is important. i started reading "The Power of A Praying Wife" by Stormie O'Martian and the first chapter was about praying for God to change you (the wife) because it's not just about wanting God to change the situation or the husband you've got to come correct too. praying that God make a change in you is very important because maybe you were looking at the situation the wrong way or not seeing your own faults, etc. i started seeing a change in myself and in my husband.

we also need to pray about situations. praying for yourself and situations can be simultaneous. especially if your eyes need to be opened and you need to be taken out of a situation at the same time but you know you need Divine help. God is a miracle worker...

I think both points are valid.

-7:spinstar:

I totally agree Wildflower7

:confused: i certainly believe it does. i feel so lifted when i pray almost like all of my insides are brand new. i 'm learning to pray more and not just in bad times. but being grateful for everyday.:D

hey what's up, More.
I agree. Prayer most definately works.
My problem is that I forget to main things.
You have to be within His will or obedient, unless
He's just being merciful in that matter
and it can't be against what His will
already is for that matter. I'm sure there
is more to it, but I know that prayer does work.
Peace to ya!

yes prayer works it comfort the soul & heart
having faith in he makes u know .................