I brought this issue up on another post in this particular forum, and bringing this out for the fam to examine is better than keeping it as a footnote. I fully expect brother Dnommo and sister Joyce--among others--to eventually show up and provide some insight.

In the Bible, there are TWO seats of judgement. The First seat, for non-Christians, is The Great White Throne Judgement. It is a seat of punishment and eternal reward. Christians, those who have accepted Christ, will be judged at the Judgement Seat of Christ. This is a seat of review and blessing. Jesus himself will show us what we COULD have received IF we would have obeyed MORE. Nations shall also be judged at The Great White Throne.

Let me make it clear. There IS a heaven, and there IS a hell. Once judgement is rendered before The Great White Throne, Hell will be the sentence for those who rejected Christ. Before The Judgement Seat of Christ, Christians will have their tears wiped away, and our works for Christ will be examined and tried by fire.

What is left will be rewarded...by a series of Crowns...

*There is a soul winners Crown
*There is a righteousness Crown
*There is a faith Crown
--among others.

Those crowns will be cast at the feet of Christ, for HE is King of Kings, and Lord of Lords.

Now, without getting too deep, I would invite you to check your own Bible, and do a study on The Judgement Seat of Christ. This does exist.

As a result of this Judgement Seat of Christ, Christians will be allowed to rule angels in Heaven. Like I said, this is a deep topic, and I trust that Dnommo and Joyce (among others) will have more to further this thread.

Suffice it to say that this is just as much a part of the scriptures as the Resurrection, the Rapture, the Marriage Supper of the Lamb. If this is causing you to think, best check with your Bible, and your Pastor on this topic.

We did not become Christians to serve ourselves...but to pass on the truth of Christ to all who would be willing to listen.

Mike Ramey

:heart:

Hey Mike ... thanks for this.

I'll do some reading and come back.

:heart:

Destee

Just so long as you know that if I dont agree, it wouldn't be because I don't comprehend.

So what's the point of your post?

This should be interesting to watch. I'll try and make it back!

carry on....

kebah

Hey Kebah! Great to hear from you!

Of course, feel free to disagree! :toast: However, I didn't put this up here to get everyone to 'agree'; I put it up here to get folk to do some 'homework' and 'search' the scriptures for themselves, the ultimate in personal freedom:jawdrop:

If one wants to understand how their DVD Player, their car, or even their relationship is going to work, they have to read the Owner's Manual.:read:

Well, the Bible is the Owner's Manual on the condition of men and women. If we don't read it, how are we going to fully understand who we are and where we are heading, as individuals and as a people?

Mike Ramey

Hey Kem! Great to 'read' from ya, Bro!

You can find that reference in Matthew 25:31.

The same chapter also deals with the White Throne Judgement.

There is more of this further in the NT. I can supply more references later, if needed.

Mike Ramey

Originally posted by Mike Ramey
Hey Kebah! Great to hear from you!

Of course, feel free to disagree! :toast: However, I didn't put this up here to get everyone to 'agree'; I put it up here to get folk to do some 'homework' and 'search' the scriptures for themselves, the ultimate in personal freedom:jawdrop:

If one wants to understand how their DVD Player, their car, or even their relationship is going to work, they have to read the Owner's Manual.:read:

Well, the Bible is the Owner's Manual on the condition of men and women. If we don't read it, how are we going to fully understand who we are and where we are heading, as individuals and as a people?

Mike Ramey

Well, I'm sure you know an "Owners Manual" has various interpretations. Which makes your example...moot. ;)

Now, you've admitted to not being "a scholar", which bring me to my next point. There are probably many spiritual denominations on this board, so I'm asking that you please be very careful in what you say. Your interpretation of what ever you choose to use, must be done with caution as to not isolate other religions, and or beliefs to the point of degradation. Freedom of religion is very important in this country, and should be protected. In other words, continue to be as tactful as you've been, and I'll not have to......pray for you. :D But I'm sure you know all of this.

I've enjoyed reading you so far, although I dont agree with some of it. But this is America, huh? They'll be times I'll jump in if I'm around these parts.

Oh yes, I liked your reparations post, it was nice.

carry on.... ;)

kebah

Why should one be 'politically correct' when they can be RIGHT!:toast:

Sure, this is America, and folk do have the right to disagree. Sure, this is America, and folk...even on these boards...are going to disagree on the topic of 'religion'. Owner's Manual (and I hate to break your heart, Kebah) are NOT subject to interpretation.

If that were the case, the next time you run low on gas, why not put water in your gas tank and run it on that? After all...if the Owner's Manual for your car says 'use Gasoline', and you choose to use anything other than what is in the Manual for your gas tank, you're the 'smart' one, right?

WRONG!

Same thing with the Bible. It is a living, breathing, Owner's Manual from God to man and woman how to best 'run' themselves to the best efficiency level possible under HIS direction.

Now, on the matter of denominations, denominations are manmade...not God intended. However, where God's word is welcome, that denomination IS on track. Where God's word is NOT welcome, nor obeyed, that denomination is wrong.

One does not have to be 'careful' if they have the truth on their side. The problem in our society today is that many people like to have their 'feelings' catered to, instead of being confronted with the truth. The truth is NOT relative, nor subject to interpretation.

The truth is still the truth. The ONLY difference is whether or nor someone will heed the truth you choose to share with them.

Mike Ramey

Originally posted by Mike Ramey
Why should one be 'politically correct' when they can be RIGHT!:toast:

Sure, this is America, and folk do have the right to disagree. Sure, this is America, and folk...even on these boards...are going to disagree on the topic of 'religion'. Owner's Manual (and I hate to break your heart, Kebah) are NOT subject to interpretation.

If that were the case, the next time you run low on gas, why not put water in your gas tank and run it on that? After all...if the Owner's Manual for your car says 'use Gasoline', and you choose to use anything other than what is in the Manual for your gas tank, you're the 'smart' one, right?

WRONG!

Same thing with the Bible. It is a living, breathing, Owner's Manual from God to man and woman how to best 'run' themselves to the best efficiency level possible under HIS direction.

Now, on the matter of denominations, denominations are manmade...not God intended. However, where God's word is welcome, that denomination IS on track. Where God's word is NOT welcome, nor obeyed, that denomination is wrong.

One does not have to be 'careful' if they have the truth on their side. The problem in our society today is that many people like to have their 'feelings' catered to, instead of being confronted with the truth. The truth is NOT relative, nor subject to interpretation.

The truth is still the truth. The ONLY difference is whether or nor someone will heed the truth you choose to share with them.

Mike Ramey

I never stated anything about disagreeing with the truth, or that truth is subject to interpretation (even though it is).

Mike, those manuals ARE subject to "various" interpretations every day. I and many machanics have botched jobs while using manuels, only to find that they misinterpreted what writer intended. I just dealt with an arbitrator the other day concerning an automobile and it's manual AND warranty. I won. Why? The interpretation wasn't clear enough as to not be taken in another direction where it was otherwise intended. Which is what I'm speaking of. Man's truth's and interpretation.

What YOU deem as truth, is subject to interpretation...yours. :D

Sure, denominations are manmade, but the fact remains there are many in existance, whether wrong or not. This is due to many interpretations of the scriptures (manual).

Just admit that your manual example was weak, and we'll call it a day. Surely you should know that any book is subject to interpretation. Especially the Bible.

Regards,

kebah :D

So, I do remember what I said, Kebah, and I stand by it!

However, let's remember one other thing. The Bible did not originate with man. It originated with God, was paid for by Jesus Christ, and was passed on TO man via the Holy Spirit.

Man could not have 'created' something so wonderful.

The truth does NOT change and will exist, whether or not someone agrees with it. We can't see the air we breathe, but it is TRUE. We can't see the blood that runs in our veins, but it still is TRUE.

Would you go to a doctor who only told you what made you 'feel good'? Or, would you want your doctor to 'tell you the TRUTH' about your condition?

Would you want your wife/girlfriend to tell you want you wanted to hear? Or, would you want her to tell you the TRUTH?

No, Kebah...the truth SHALL stand. Whether or not you agree with it, does NOT change it.

Mike Ramey

With you bringing up the 2 Judgement seats and you saying that it does exist, does this relate to the common belief that when you die you go to heaven or hell?

I would like for you to give more Bible references please.

Thanks. -7:spinstar:

Let me do this from the ground up as a Bible Student NOT an 'expert'....

First, my Scripture references will come from the KJV. Many of the modern translations (NIV, NASB, Living, NKJV, etc.) DO NOT have many of these verses....and are suspect. (And, if you REALLY want to get a good Bible, get a KJV...and a Strong's Concordance tuned to the KJV).

Second, I'm not going to go in great detail. Check with your Pastor for even more.

Third, INDIVIDUAL Bible study is the BOMB! The Bereans did this constantly. So should WE.

Now, a few basic terms...

The Saved, The Believer, The Christian, The Saints: Sheep, Wheat, Righteous.

The Unsaved, The Unbeliever, The Non-Christian, The Wicked: Goats, Tares, Unrighteous.

Rapture: Defined in I Thess. Chapter 4

The Judgements:
*A Past judgement for men and women at the Cross--aka Past Judgement: John 5:24, 12:31, John 3:16, John 10:10.

*A Present judgement in the life of the believer on a daily basis--aka Checking our growth in Christ and grace: I Cor. 11:31, 32.

Now, here is where the rubber meets the road on my earlier post:

1) Marriage Supper of the Lamb (Saints only)
2) Judgement Seat of Christ (Saints only)
3) Judgement Of The Living Nations

Covered in Matt. 25

A little more on this....

*Marriage Supper of the Lamb--Where all the Saints shall gather with the Lord. Matthew 25:1-13.

*A Future Judgement of the Saints at the Judgement Seat of Christ, NOT for salavation, but FOR reward/loss according to what the Saint has done in their life while on this earth: I Cor. 3:8-16, I Cor. 4:5.

*A Future Judgement of the Living Nations: Matt. 25:31-46 This covers deeds done while on earth.

*The Great White Throne Judgement--aka the Final Judgement--covered in Revelation 20:11-15. THIS happens AFTER the Rapture of the Saints, AFTER the Seven Year Clock runs out when the judgement of God falls upon the earth (The Great Tribulation Period), and the OLD earth passes away. EACH person who is NOT a believer is going to have to appear here.

*A Judgement of Israel Eze. 20:33-44.

*The Judgement of the Fallen Angels--II Peter 2:4. The Saints will be on hand to help judge these demons that helped Satan carry out his diabolical plan against those on earth.

Good study tool, in addition to what I have already mentioned: The Great Doctrines Of The Bible by William Evans.

Hope this helps...Didn't mean to go so long...but, remember, you ASKED for references, Wildflower 7.

Mike Ramey

The bottom line on Heaven or Hell rests in ONE thing...what has the INDIVIDUAL done with Jesus Christ? Not denomination, not good deeds, nor good works, nor social giving, nor race, nor sex, nor bravery, nor anything else.

Certainly NOT feeling, or personal opinion.

This is GOD'S standard as recorded in the Bible....

Acceptance of HIM (Christ)---equals Heaven; Rejection of HIM---(Christ) equals Hell.

It is an INDIVIDUAL choice!

Mike Ramey

Thanks. -7:spinstar:

it is practically copied from Kemet.. We'll break it down if the masses wish!

Peace

hello to all...

As i was perusing this board, I cam across this post and it interested me simply because at this juncture, I am writing a doctrinal research paper on eschatology. If I may input here, I would like to post some references that may help in clearing up the disparages about two judgements.

Taken from my research paper:

Is the Judgment Seat of Christ the same as the Great White Throne?

The Judgment Seat of Christ is not the Judgment of the Great White Throne. (Rev 20:1-15).

Who will stand before the Great White Throne?

According to Christian beliefs, the Great White Throne is meant only for the unregenerate who “are condemned already because they have not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God” (John 3:18). This is not for those who have not heard (meaning being witnessed to), but for those who have heard and have rejected such belief. This is the final judgment, which will take place after the millennium (Rev 20:6).

Who will stand before the Judgment Seat of Christ?

The Judgment Seat of Christ occurs only twice in the Bible (2 Cor. 5:10, Rom. 14:10) but has been referred to many times in the scripture (Col. 2:18, Gal 6:7-10, 1 Cor 3:13-18, Rev 22:12, 2 John 8). The Greek word for Judgment seat is bema, which refers to a platform on which was placed a seat for an official, or judges heard cases (Acts 18:12, 16, 26:6, 10,17). Pilate sat on his judgment when he tried Jesus (Matt 27:19, John 19:13).
According to the Apostle Paul, Christians will one day stand before the Judgment Seat of Christ to give an account of the works they have done as Christians (Rom. 14:10, I Cor 3:9-15, 2 Cor 5:10). Paul expresses this in no uncertain terms when he says, “so then every one of us shall give an account of himself to God” (Rom 14:12). According to Hebrews 13:17, the leaders of the church are not even spared. The church says that privilege of standing before the Judgment Seat of Christ comes from being “born again,” but the Kingdom understanding is that the privilege of standing before the Judgment Seat of Christ comes from being “a servant.” Then Judgment Seat of Christ is not to be used to punish sin but rather a place to examine service. The believer’s life will be examined and evaluated with regard to his faithfulness as a steward of the abilities and opportunities which God entrusted to him. Faithfulness will be graciously rewarded while unfaithfulness will be unrewarded. Therefore, the primary purpose of the Judgment Seat of Christ is to reveal and to review the Christian’s life and service and then to reward them for what God deems worthy of reward.


i have discovered that in other religious belief systems, there are differences about what shall offur after death. In Christianity, it is based solely on this who have heard the Gospel of Jesus Christ. It is wrong to impose our beliefs, consequences and convictions on those who HAVE NOT HEARD. There are many who have different beliefs and we, as Christians, should understand and accept their choice. In order for us to reach them we must first embrace them. I speak this solely for those who may feel the need to express certain points of this research and imply that Christians are attempting to force their religion on others. This is solely research for those who seek an understanding of the topic.

one.