I was talking to my son today, discussing the MANY young ladies he knows that are so willing to accept ANY behavior from a man ... just because he did something nice for the young lady one time (took her to a movie, bought her dinner, gave her a ride to work, had sex with her, etc.) ... and she acts as though she is indebted for life to him ... taking all kinds of physical, mental and spiritual abuse ... and seeming to love it (because she stays with him).

What's wrong with our young ladies? Why are they accepting any kind of behavior from men? Where exactly did we drop the ball?

My son says, they make it so easy to abuse them. They will hand over their money, be beat up, talked about, disrespected ... he even went as far as to say ... they'd be literally kicked in the face and then obediently go and prepare a sandwich for the man that did this to them.

My heart aches at this. What happened? Where are the mothers (and father's) of these young women?

While my topic is addressing young women, I know that there are older women going through the same thing.

Is all of this due to low self esteem?

My son says it's not just a few young ladies putting up with such treatment ... it's many ... he says pretty ones, not so pretty ones, working young ladies, able to care for themselves ... yet they put up with this. We really can't blame the man (entirely), for these are willing "victims."

We, as the older folk, really have a great responsibility regarding this issue ... where did we drop the ball ... what can we do to help these young ladies that can't seem to help themselves. Is there any hope? Gosh ... my son depressed me with this conversation today.

Destee

So if its the mom fault that she allows her child to do so.. Where is the father to voice his opinion? I"m so sick of the blame being pinned on woman who have no choice but to take care of child on their own. Because men feel that they didn't get a commitment before hand. Truth of the matter is. You both made a commitment not to wear a condomn... But no one.. discussed the aftermath... so drop the commitment crap. and get to the real nitty gritty.
WHY ARE FATHERS NOT THEIR FOR THEIR CHILDREN?
DESPITE A COMMITTMENT WHAT ABOUT THE ONE TO THEIR CHILD?
WHY IS SO EASILY FOR A YOUNG MAN TO DISRESPECT THEIR SISTERS THESE DAYS. IT WASN'T AS DETRIMENTAL 5-6 YEARS AGO.
WHY DO YOUNG MEN NOT WANT BE A MAN.. TO TAKE ON MANLY RESPONBILITIES?

WHY DO YOUNG MEN SCREAM OUT THEIR CARS TO YOUNG LADIES WALKING DOWN THE STREET?

WHY DO THEY TRY TO SNEAK A FEEL ON A LADIES BEHIND WHEN SHE'S WALKING THROUGH A CLUB?

WHY DO THEY ASSUME THAT JUST BECAUASE SHE HAS ON A SEXY OUTFIT SHE'S EASY...

DOES A WOMAN HAVE TO COVER ALL HER SKIN JUST TO BE CONSIDERED RESPECTABLE?

WHY... So many questions to ask... created of over centuries of generations transforming the earth....

My question Destee... you got any ideas to resolve the issue? Cause personally i'm so tired of it.. Ignorant men.. Ignorant women... But then to hear my own kind blame it all on gender. That hurts me... within... I am an element of screw ups... lack of attention.. focus.. and love within the home... fatherless(other than step child) Lied to.. denied to know my own familiy... was not taught to get a higher education.. was criticized, riducule and looked down upon as nothing. It was an element within my environment that turned me around... It was also my environment that held so many down. Can you explain dhat?...

I perceive or shall i say believe.. that it depends on ones mental strength. I have no reason to have love for the black man...
molested...
raped
lied to
disappointed
cheated on..
lack of respect
racist to the female kind...(based on sex, relationships, as well and the work environment)
Degrading..
and many have turned their backs.. on their families.. friends.. and most of all... Their own children....

But i don't sit their and bash them every day or blame them for many of the downfalls in our society. No .. I still love and try my best to promote them and motivate them with self love for themselves and their people. And yet accept many of their sorry excuses for a man for who they are...

Now lets talk about resolution to the issues.. cause i'm sick and tired of hearing what we black women are doing wrong....

I have spoken with many of Gentlemen and as well as some ladies on this issue. None of which.. as of course me included.. could not find a cure for a disease that has plagued our society for over 20 years. Or even where to begin.

Allow me to chime in....Oftentimes the problem is in the home and the problem exists for both the young man and the young woman. Its no secret that your home environment and the family relationship is paramount to how an individual will turn out. Children tend to mimic the behavior that they see and the environments they have grown up in.....One cannot blame neighborhoods and societies all the time...many time the blame is in the home......if the young man sees his father treating his mother and sisters in a barbaric and demeaning manner then chances are (note I said chances not a certainty) that is the type of behavior he may exemplify......The same for the young woman if all she ever saw was her mother being treated as an object or as a punching bag chances are (note again I said chances) that will have a longlasting effect. On the flip side if both the young man and the young woman sees positive influences in the home, then chances are(note there is that word chances again) they will exhibit that behavior.......I don't blame it on gender, race, but on the many underlying factors of different situations.....some may say that it's because the father is not in the home....I beg to differ I grew up without my father in the home, but I was taught how a man was supposed to treat a young woman, by other family members who were there....Now I know that my situation is different from many...but every situation is different....

sometimes folks end up in damaging relationships as i said earlier because of what they were used to seeing...and they go from one relationship to the same type of relationship because they feel that this is whati supposed to be....They haven't been taught....Now you may say well it's common sense that no one should be treated like that or no one has the right to treat a person in such a manner, but if that's what they have been used to then your version of common sense and their version will differ.

You ask is there a cure to all the madness? That has been the questions for ages......The cure is simply education.....But the problem is so many people feel that there is nothing wrong....This is the way things are.......As long as they feel that way, you will never be able to educate until they themselves get tired of the situation.


This problem also exist on the flip side for men....who grew up in the household without a father...and the mother had the job of raising them...They never learned to make decisions or accept responsibilty because mama was always there...then they hook up with a strongwilled young woman, and will give in to her every demand, also being the victim of verbal abuse...It's a sad state of affairs but this is our world......We can only educate those who want to be educated......


Hey Keme...in reference to your bad boy syndrome.....Why is it that the nice guys finish last as they say? you know back in the day...if a brotha had a good job and things going for him he was a good catch...but now the nice guys have been put on the backburner and replaced with these wanna be playa bruthas.......consequently the women get mistreated and soon develops a mistrust for all men,,,including the ones who really would like to treat them as the queen that they are?

Hmmmmmmm

Solutions? Education on both sides. I agree that we can only really educate those who want to be educated. The best solution is to not stop the message of respect for self and try to show them what "respect" looks like. I too wonder what's going on..I work with young people (16 and up) and talk to them everyday in the best way i know how. I fell both sad and made when i see some of them accept as ok.

I do have problems with the ladies and many of the things that they accept, because it may unlitimately rest with us (child rearing). But can see where many of us are following suit or doing what we think works(ed) for someone else. Just plain selling out-- to young men, older men, other women, etc. And then there are the so-called young (men) who need to have a lot of somebodies somewhere make it clear and plain..In other words: "If you are with a woman who disrespects herself and you are a partner in the relationship or whatver you chose to call it, you have no respect for self either...PERIOD...If you are walking around, man or woman, slave to trend...*** out, breasts out, pants saggin, drawers and *** showin, designer or no-wearin, abuse accepter or giver, sheisty-- whether hustlin or legal, two-timin, beggin,givin away what is yours to anybody who will take (material or body) ....YOU HAVE LITTLE OR NO RESPECT!!! The taker accepts no less fault thatn the giver. And sometimes, though not always, you will attract what you reallly are. Every day our young people are being reduced to act more like little children(dependent)....

BUT I DIGRESS....Education and example. Those who follow will follow. Either way the situation looks bleak right now. I try to tell youngsters that they are IT...the leaders of the future..And if you could see the look on their faces!@*...They are confused as hell!
Too often we (myself included) hook up when our **** is still raggedy--meaning before we get self straight. Self love. Education. Example. Make the desirable undesirable. Flip the script.

A speech for young ladies & men: (Memorize if necessary):

"I love myself too much to hook up or let you occupy my space...get your **** together and be a man/woman..If you want to know how, i'll tell you...otherwise, move around!"

Everybody who sees a problem should be educating somebody. Doesn't have to be your kid or adult (in some cases). I can't help but wonder what would happen if we REALLY did that.....
~my few cents ~
peace & :heart:

Destee and fam: Self-esteem ONLY became an issue when WE as parents stopped teaching in the HOME! When WE turned over our responisibilities (or, I should say abdicated) our responsibilities to teachers, the MSW's, the Police, and the courts, we FORGOT that the HOME is where teaching STARTS...not STOPS.

Think about ourselves 'back in the day'! Boys learned REAL early about WORK! Girls learned HOW to cook, clean, and sew! NOW we have parents who won't instill those things in their children.

As a Substitute Teacher, I have SEEN it, folks: Girls know more about reading the financial pages than they do about reading a cookbook! Boys know more about wearing earrings and braids than getting a JOB!

Destee: PROTECT your son! There ARE some 'teenage hootchie mamas' out there who will PREY on him because he is a GOOD kid!

Had a mother of a few sons tell me not that long ago that her phone is ringing off the HOOK because his female, high school classmates want them to 'date', but they (the boys) are concerned about getting their grades!

Self-esteem disappears when the beads of sweat form on a teenage brow.

Mike Ramey

i think it goes both ways. Say the young man is brought up in a home with both mom and dad. He sees dad always talking down to mom, hitting, cursing etc.... that young man grows up to do the same that he saw his father do. Say the young lady grows up with both mom and dad again she sees her mom taking the abuse hurled from dad. She will gravitate towards that brotha who is abusive if you will and that brotha will seek out that sista with the low self esteem. I grew up with both my mom and dad until they divorced in '96. My dad was military and he didn't take no crap. He did not disrespect my mom and she never cow tied to his ego. For the most part they had a loving relationship which was give and take. They had their arguments like errybody else and they worked them out. They showed me and my sisters that it was ok for a couple to argue, but they also showed us that respect was key. They had a real good relationship until dad started with the drugs and mom couldn't hang no more. That's a whole nudda story, but again it starts at home. My mom didn't allow us to date, wear makeup, nail polish, look at videos or any of that stuff. Shoot I got my *** tore up once because I had on tinted lip gloss. That was back in the day though.


My 2 cents worth



One

it's time to start thinking differently and stop following. nobody has the balls to make a complete change. one thing that i aspire to do as an educator is to present a different way of life that's presented to them. the children have no choice as to the situation into which they are born, but we positive people can start mentoring and making much needed sacrifices to be role models.
we have to change and inspire change. my boss says "don't talk about it, just fix it." go somewhere and tell a child they're beautiful and can do anything they want to do if they believe and you believe in them. you just might change their life.

diva

Finally, we've gotten to the ROOT of the matter!

There are a LOT of great kids out there! Somewhere along the line, we have forgotten how to encourage, rather than discourage!

Mark Twain said it best: "I can go three months on a compliment!"

I think that we've forgotten how to 'compliment' our youth! Sure, we've ALL done things that have been 'less than our best'. But, to put into play a saying that I heard from Tony Brown: "All of you in this room are here because ONE PERSON said you are successful, and you are merely trying to prove that person right! Remove that ONE PERSON from your life and no one would be here, plus you would not have a speaker!"

Diva08, you hit the nail right on the head! Find the child who WANTS to be encouraged, and watch them take off to the heavenlies. :toast:

Mike Ramey

Trying to place blame is not the solution, nor is it relevant, and definitely not helpful. My solution is rather simplistic, and unfortunately we as a people have become so enlightened that we have turned away from it. We have moved away from the teachings of Christ. If we followed his teachings, and this is not saying that you have to be fanatical, in church 7 days a week, praying 25 hours a day, or anything like that. However, if we love one another as HE loves us, we don't call our women the names that are so common-place and even celebrated in entertainment. If we respected and loved our mothers and sisters in this way, we would not be a party to anyone who does these things. We would also find it easier to model this behavior if WE practiced it ourselves. Our children learn what is modeled or allowed in their lives. Unfortunately, we leave so much of what needs to be taught and modeled at home to teachers and everyone, but the one's responsible for bring those children into the world.
It is not easy, but respect is learned best when it is modeled. If we notice something wrong with our children, ask ourselves what is being modeled before them. We cannot shield them from things they will see and hear out there, but we can talk to them - honestly and frankly when we see them leaning to those things we know are not right...........:(

Kemestry

Agreed!!!

I think some women 'think' being treated in a bad manner is what is supposed to happen to them because that is what they see around them. How is a woman supposed to know that she can have a loving, nuturing relationship with a man if she's never seen one except on the Cosby Show (which many Black people called 'fake' because it wasn't in 'the hood' OR Claire and Cliff aren't real)?

Self-esteem is a learned behavior. If you don't know any better you'll take unnecessary BS from someone until pinned in a corner like an animal...and we all know what happens when the animal fights back...all heck breaks loose.

What can WE do about this problem? Go back to the nuclear family structure because the is nothing more special than a man and woman raising kids togehter. Beleive it or not what you see from your parents relationship has a strong bearing on you and how you act as an adult. If they see a man treating a woman with RESPET then the young women will demand respect and get it.

Respect is due...never demanded.

If one respects themselves, in conduct, conversation, and dress, respect will be drawn to them like a magnet! They will be swimming in respect.

Kam, you are right on target with this one!

Mike Ramey

thanks everyone for your comments ...

:heart:

Destee

Mental illness is a large part of the issue. Lack of problem solving happening day to day.

If someone fired you from your job, and you suspected discrimination. Or if it was open discrimination.. you couldn't get it resolved properly. Because the NAACP, the ACLU, and EEOC all have a small percentage of cases they must win, or carry to continue funding. They meet that quota and stop properly processing the program.

So what does this have to do with low self esteem.

Quite a bit. Now you take this example and apply it to the courts. Apply it to the system in general. Every time you don't get JUSTICE. You get frustrated. You explode on the wrong issue. You give up, and start abusing yourself, ( a self mutilation process you don't feel until it's too late to pull back ). Your esteem is eroded. Once you lose it.. any other abuse seems ( tolerated )normal.

Talking like you don't care. When the truth is you are a LIAR. You do care. The first thing you must do is be truthful.

No one is being truthful with you. So at least be truthful with yourself. ARE YOU HURTING?

Take account. I bet you can count ten unresolved issues that past thru you. Over you. Or effected you in the last three to five years. All legal issues. All that can be resolved.

If the IRS has taken your money.. it probable wasn't justified in how it took place.

If that landlord didn't rent to you because you have children. Because you are black. Then it wasn't justified to treat you this way.

You didn't deserve to go to prison.. you were just a passenger doing the joy ride thing. No it wasn't justified to go to jail.. but the rules you must know. GUILTY BY ASSOCIATION.

BLACK BY ASSOCIATION.. DOESN'T MAKE YOU BAD. SHOULDN'T MAKE YOU SUSPECT OR GUILTY. BUT BY THAT ASSOCIATION YOU LET SOCIETY TELL IT. Your guilty.

Now problems come from the top down. If the top is intolerant of DISCRIMINATION, BIGOTRY, HATRED then those in the middle don't experience it. They have recourse. The top can be the law. the lawyers. The judges. The President. The top could be the owner of the company. The top could be the owner of the apartment building.

LAWYERS.. are Politicians. Politicians are LAWYERS. Lawyers are the police of the courts and judges are policeman that were placed there by vote and proxy of those needing them to vote and carry cases in their favor.

The most corrupt court is the SUPREME COURT.

JUDGES.. LAWYERS in the pocket of the President that gave them their job. An employer wouldn't hire you unless your going to work for him.

Yes we need Better housing. Better schools.

We need to start with mental health. Then legal health. Try taking your case of any kind to an attorney. You don't get representation. Your not a easy accident case. Your not enough profit. It use to be and they took a oath to work for us. They run off to corporate greed. Some get involved in that machine of defending the criminals... the victims I should say, they know society creates so that POWER at the top, remains at the top.

So the loan he went to school on was public money its forgotten if they work two years as a PUBLIC DEFENDER...
They have no obligation for the accused. He isn't suppose to win. He's only working off his loan so he can get to the corporate level. The CONGRESS level.

The POLICE of the court won't represent you. So self esteem goes down. Drug use goes up. Frustration. Hopeless thinking. Must Escape. Not understanding.. that on every corner in rural America. On both sides of the street you can throw a rock and hit a liquor store. DIDN'T WE LEARN WHAT CAUSED THE DEMISE OF THE NATIVE AMERICAN.

MENTAL HEALTH, AND ALCOHOL.

All of these replies were informative. I enjoyed reading them. However, IMHO Cheek was the only person to even TOUCH on the real problem and the real solution to the problem. It is LOVE. Cheek used Jesus as a model. I can think of no better model for this, but regardless of one's religion/faith love should be somewhere in the equation.

This self-esteem issue (for males and females) has EVERYTHING to do with love. I will comment on females lack of self-esteem though, since it is the topic of discussion.

Females, as much as males, need their fathers' approval and/or love. There is nothing that can substitute for it. When a father is absent (either physically or emotionally) it wounds a female so deeply that it takes the power of God to heal them. Plain and Simple....Women except poor treatment from men because they are looking for love....and unfortunately it comes from a man whom has been neglected also. These young ladies stay in situations that are detrimental to them because they believe they are loved (or they want to believe that) and are afraid that if they let this little boy go that they may never receive love from a man again...especially because their own father does not love them enough to demontrate his love. "If my own father doesn't love me then why would another man love me." is their concern. So...they do everything in their power to keep the first person who gives them the ILLUSION of love.

It is why young women want to have babies (because they feel the baby will love them no matter what). It is young women are sexually active. It is why young women let themselves get abused (because the boy does it because he loves me). It is why some young women get caught up in cults (because they feel apart of something) etc. etc. the list goes on and on.

Of course the mothers have some blame, but the brunt of it should be placed on fathers for not knowing (or choosing not to) demonstrate their love for their daughters (and sons). It is so important!!!!!!! This love would curve so many destructive actions that we would see a vast difference in teen behavior in our communities. This is MHO at a glimpse.

I don't know what's going on. What ever happened to ladies loving self before any man? It seems like most young women, not including myself, has forgot all about their self worth. As women, we need to recognize our value as women and not let a man denounce our self-worth. We make up a great percentage of this world and taking all this bs. There are 12 women to every 1 man and we acting stupid. Let's be real. The way it seems 2 me if u ain't half naked, u won't be seen as beautiful. Right now, it's time for ladies 2 look and be seen as ladies and not sex toys. Make yr self worth be known that u are a woman and expect 2 be treated as nothing less

Destee and sisters this is a great topic and one which is near and dear to my heart.

I volunteer a few times a month as time permits for an org in my area called GIRL TALK. This is a life skills development class for 12th grade girls which meets at noon 3 times a week. Time permitted I facilitate this meeting at a high school in a working class, black neighborhood.

This is a mandatory discussion group which I started after the World AIDS conference. In this ciscussion group- there is a corresponding session for boys. The young women learn skills for dealing with everything from continuing education, to building self esteem within a mainsteeam culture whose standards of beauty usually exclude them.

When I return home and meet with the class again the discussion will be on STD's, HIV/AIDS and how to defend themselves emotionally and sexually from older sexual predators. I love those discussions, the ones many adults shy away from. The **WHAT YOUR MAMA NEVER TOLD YOU ABOUT S.E.X,** or a womans sexual health and how to defend it. I pass out anatomical dolls,,diagrams, colored pencils, and tablets for thier thoughts. The ladies bury themselves in the info and point to the diagrams, whisper, giggle and later tell me that the adults in thier lives are discouraging them from having sex, but are also reminding them to use condoms. if they do.

We have discussions and because no new people are added afterthe 3rd day the ladies know that anything said will not be taken out of the class. I have establised credibility, and trust and have discovered info that I also can use.

My strategy is as follows.

1..Keep it real do not lectire them they will shut down. I encourage conversations that are interesting enough that they'll want to add input.


2. Start by bringing up boys, instead of setting a somber tone I keep it like a comedy.

3. lay out the latex, but discuss abstinence> Speak to them and not to them particularly about programs that build thier skills in communication assertiveness and self esteem. Instead of standing in front of a room and talkng about safer sex have the girls practice putting on a condom.

4. AIDS is killing my sisters, it is the 3rd leading cause of death for black women between 25-44 and the sixth leading cause of death among afrikan descendants 20-29. However, because it often takes up to 10 yrs to develop, young adults were likely infected in thier teens.

5. Don't forget the homophobia that keeps black men and women from telling younger ladies the facts, that many black men have sex with men and women with women. One in 50 Afrikan amer men is HIV positive according to the CDC so with odds like these there will be many youung ladies who will trade thier virginity for a death sentence.

Carpe Diem
I dream I hope

Hello family:

In my career i have discovered that not only is the creator missing from the lives of many of our sistern but our own as well.
Many of us have achieved miracles notwithstanding the help of the creator yet if we look back in retrospect and are honest many of us will admit that we did not have a clue about what life was really all about.

For me as well as for many peers we all thought we had it going on and that we were invincible and full of KING KONG!! Also many of my peers were unable to accept criticism. In my case, I was reared by two people who were bred in controversy and who had the guts to make sure that my siblings and I had knowledge of self, and our culture and regardless of my history in dis small world I am responsible for passing the message on to my peers whenever possible and to this end I do.

One thing that I would like to share here is this..

It make no difference how we were raised, what we could and could not do, how many degrees we have, what type of auto we drive or whether we take the bus..our children are dying for lack of knowledge.
We are obligated to teach each one and not allow our own lack of similarity blind us to the needs of others. We as a people are all that we have and no man is an island.

Getting out in our urban cities and telling the truth is the only way our sisters can survive. Our men must begin to be men, and cease to entrap young women with lies, our sisters must begin to return to the old way of covering our bodies with fashionable yet tasteful dress, and our educators must cease to miseducate.
our communities must cease to accept handouts and we must as a people return to the ancestors way of life.

Yes, we are in amerikka but we are not amerikkkans unless we believe we are..I am an Afrikan, a queen and a healker...What about you?