I mean ... I don't know anyone that has died and come back to tell me about the heaven and/or hell they've ended up in. There's no "real evidence" ... not like we can see and touch and stuff ... that gives us to know that these places exist.

We have to accept and believe these things by faith.

Do you believe they exist? If not, what do you believe happens, if anything, after death?

:heart:

Destee

YES I BELIEVE THEIR IS SUCH
FORTH BY MY FAITH THEIR IS A HEAVEN ABOVE
AND YES HELL IS BELOW
AS I CAN FEEL WITHIN ME AND MY TRUE FAITH AND LOVE
OF GOD IN GOD WHEN MY TIME HERE RUNS OUT I WILL
HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE IN HEAVEN
BUT TO BE DISHONEST / LYING /CHEATING STEALING KILLING
THEN HELL THEY WILL BURN FOREVER .....NO PEACE
YES I BELIEVE !!!!!!

I too believe that there is a heaven. I believe that all of my ancestors are there ... all those who have gone on before me. I think too that they are helping me, perhaps even petitioning God for me ... I too believe.

But yall know what? If no mistake, I've read or heard that we won't recognize our Mother as our Mother in heaven ... we won't recognize our own folk or anybody?

Is that your understanding of things?

Destee

Hello!

I am fairly new in here...but to respond to this...

I do believe that there is a heaven and hell....after death...but also...I also believe in hell and heaven on earth (state of mind)

some people don't believe in h/h because like stated earlier it can not be proven but myself, would definitly not want to find out the hard way when it's too late...

I've finally picked up the Left Behind Series and have read 4 books in 3 weeks...and how enlightening!!!! I was seriously awakened and pushed to again recieve Christ as my Lord and saviour...all of a sudden it just felt urgent!

I believe there is a heaven and hell. I cannot give you an accurate physical description. All I have learned, believed in and experienced, coupled with a careful reading of Holy Scriptures cause me to be assured that being in the presence of our Creator for an eternity is Heaven, joyful, without illness, with a new body. To be anywhere else for eternity - is Hell. We were created with clear choices. I believe that our souls have been imprinted to return to the Creator...they long for this. The death and resurrection of Christ has made Heaven possible for all of us, Gentile or Jew.

hmmm...what an interesting question. Destee, i was just reading Bishop Pearson's theory on heaven and hell as he is being criticized for his "inclusion theology". It speaks a lot about heaven/hell concepts. I do bleive in a heaven and hell. I beleive that spiritually there is a heaven and hell after death. I also belive that, because Satan is spoken of as the ruler of the earth that hell is also manifested here on Earth. While this will open the door for a lerger discussion i thought i would put it out there to hear positive.negative responses...

Good question here...

I too believe that there is a heaven. I believe that all of my ancestors are there ... all those who have gone on before me. I think too that they are helping me, perhaps even petitioning God for me ... I too believe.

But yall know what? If no mistake, I've read or heard that we won't recognize our Mother as our Mother in heaven ... we won't recognize our own folk or anybody?

Is that your understanding of things?

DesteeMy Grandmother always said that if you go to Heaven you wont want to come back, and if you go to Hell you cant come back. Made sence to me.
Scripture tells us that we have a cloud of witnesses watching us to finish the race. These witnesses are people that knew us here on Earth.
God is not a cruel God that He wont let us know people from Earth. We will. Im going to write something here soon about that.

I mean ... I don't know anyone that has died and come back to tell me about the heaven and/or hell they've ended up in. There's no "real evidence" ... not like we can see and touch and stuff ... that gives us to know that these places exist.

We have to accept and believe these things by faith.

Do you believe they exist? If not, what do you believe happens, if anything, after death?

:heart:

Destee


Good Morning,

I believe there is Heaven and Hell also. I like what Rich had to say about his belief also. But my mind went to a story in the Bible about the Rich man and Lazarus. It is Luke chapter 16 starting at verse 19. It answers your question Destee.

Peace

My ancestors teach me that the concept of heaven and hell should not be confused with what was taught to us by our former slave masters, namely white christians. but what was overstood by our ancestors before we were enslaved.

Yes there's a heaven and hell...and we in them both right now. To utter or reveal the absolute truth to the masses of people would cause this earth to go into utter chaos and produce a living hell unlike anything your mind can conceive of. As such, there's just certain things I can not reveal except to those who are developed enough to receive it.

Since I can not determine on line who is or is not developed enough to receive it, it must remain hidden until they find it themselves. This is also the reason that someone spoke in parables back in the day. It was important that those hearing would not understand and those looking would not see. As they say, everything isn't for everybody. Such is the nature of Truth. Everyone can not accept it or deal with it and continue to live life as it should be lived. Enough for now.

Once, in this church I'd joined, we were having 7pm Sunday School and this guy in the back asked our Pastor on the same lines...do you believe...what's it like? etc. Our pastor went: "Oh You want to go there! (As if he'd been) He was So, excited! (clasping his hands together and going "Umph!") Telling us what to expect and all! Just from how he was describing what the experience SHOULD be like....I wanted to hop in my car...Just bypass death! Instead of putting my car in drive....choosing some OUTER-SPACE OPTION and go check it out for myself! Shoot! he had me just as excited! Even to this day I'm still just as excited about it! I mean before that day I'd always believed...but I think about that particular day and for some reason, I think even more that there is a heaven and it's going to be how he described it! Sounds Crazy I know. As for Hell, I believe there's going to be one. I just thank God I haven't ran into somebody to describe what they think it's going to be like and be all excited about it like Pastor Williams! You Know! (Man, it's going to be HOT! You can just smell the flesh burning! and hair singeing! Everybody gon' be screaming and waving they hands in the air...) I think GOD is a forgiving GOD. And those of us who ask for forgiveness eventhough we didn't live the straight and narrow will make it to this place called "HEAVEN". I just wonder? Who will Actually be sitting in Hell though? -If he's as forgiving as my heart believes?

I too wonder...wonder why no evidence was left of this reality. Ya know, I kinda figuered if God wanted us to really know these realities existed, then surely someone somewhere would have let us know for sure. I mean, the angels and prophets told us and did every darn thing else....how they forget about this one?

Come to think of it, one would think that the primary reason and rantings of the prophets would have been about people being good so that they could inherit or earn this great after life! The strange part is that none of them appear to know anything about it themselves !? Surely God didn't forget to tell them about it, did he? Kinda makes ya go HHhhmmm!? :thinking:

I feel that heaven and hell are not physical places, but reside in the mind of the individual. The preacher, or Imam is constantly talking of these 2 places because their job is to prepare u to die...hmmmmmmm which is why they teach from dead books. if everyone in the book is dead how can the holder of the book teach u to live????

Most preachers especially now adays have their heaven here on earth while they use guilt mind tricks on you to keep their accounts rollin'........

The biblical 7th heaven is actually referring to a star constellation consisting of 7 planets. If the bible were looked at astrologically christians would gain a much stronger overstanding of things....

peace

I feel that heaven and hell are not physical places, but reside in the mind of the individual. The preacher, or Imam is constantly talking of these 2 places because their job is to prepare u to die...hmmmmmmm which is why they teach from dead books. if everyone in the book is dead how can the holder of the book teach u to live????

Most preachers especially now adays have their heaven here on earth while they use guilt mind tricks on you to keep their accounts rollin'........

The biblical 7th heaven is actually referring to a star constellation consisting of 7 planets. If the bible were looked at astrologically christians would gain a much stronger overstanding of things....

peace



The Word Became Flesh

John


1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning.

3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4In him was life, and that life was the light of men. 5The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.

peace, but since u pointed me out.......what do these verses in the book of John have to do with the topic of heaven and hell?

peace, but since u pointed me out.......what do these verses in the book of John have to do with the topic of heaven and hell?


"hmmmmmmm which is why they teach from dead books"

Is why I posted this, just to say the book is not dead, not to point you out just the words "dead books".

Is not everyone in these books dead??
Therefore they breed death, for death needs more death to sustain itself under 6ether. which is why u find the cross (a symbol of death) at the cemetary!

Does not your preacher prepare u to die to get into a place called heaven instead of teaching how to obtain that reality right now? U can answer here anyway u want but your own mind will serve justice........

peace

Sure there's a heaven and Jesus tells you right where it is. Read the thread: "Clearing up the bulls*** pt.2

Is not everyone in these books dead??
Therefore they breed death, for death needs more death to sustain itself under 6ether. which is why u find the cross (a symbol of death) at the cemetary!

Does not your preacher prepare u to die to get into a place called heaven instead of teaching how to obtain that reality right now? U can answer here anyway u want but your own mind will serve justice........

peace


He died for us info, but He rose from the dead....

He died for us info, but He rose from the dead....


Who is us?

by the way, who told you that Jesus died? Do you have any history on this outside of the Bible? There is history in case you didn't know...and fortunately, even in Islam they know he didn't die. So where outside of the Bible, which is a fraud, do you get this information?

I dont know if I believe that
Just because im not sure if
All the books that have been wriiten are true
There is no true evidence besides mental
That any of these things and higher powers exsist
I have been doing my own research on God
And everything else that is as it is-So not sure!!

I don't "BELIEVE" in anything. :nono:

I don't "BELIEVE" in anything. :nono:

Hmmm
Afraid to ask
Why not Brother??

Here is my view .... When we sleep and the soul is out of the body, we experienced another dimension,or life that we call dream. And that can only be done when the body is not awake and the soul is out of the body. In that dimension or dream, if you get a good life, and enjoying yourself, that`s the Heaven you should pray to be in, when the soul get out of your body forever. In fact having such a delightful experience, if, some body wakes you up, or you wake up, you will be little bit angry.So you will try to go back to sleep to get the same dream to enjoy your good and peaceful life in other
dimension. That, is Heaven.
Now, if you are dreaming , and your soul is always in trouble, and you wake up , and you even don`t wanna go back to sleep again, you should pray hard for your soul not to find himself/herself in that situation when he/she`s out of that boby forever. Cause, that will be hell.
This is my own scientific evidence of Heaven and hell.

Bless you all

Hmmm
Afraid to ask
Why not Brother??

Because "belief" is merely the acceptance of something without having any knowledge on it.

I deal with Knowledge, not Belief. I either know something, or I don't. Belief does't even factor in.

I would rather know something I don't believe, than believe something that I don't know.

PEACE

I believe heaven and hell exist in the contents of your heart and soul.
I don't believe there are angels floating serving you white grape juice and cumpets and then the golden gates open. I don't believe the devil is walking threw fire with you making shishkabobs ! These are make believe fantasies created by the curious!

I don't "BELIEVE" in anything. :nono:

Why not? You don't have any faith in anything?

PEACE SISTER CURSED:

Why not? You don't have any faith in anything?

Check out my response to Brother Tantrum about belief.

PEACE

black people are already in hell here on earth......

black people are already in hell here on earth......

I agree with that in some ways
To me personally I think its a state of mind

One does not love with the heart, one loves with the mind. The sole purpose of the heart is to pump blood. To see with the heart is to believe; to see with the mind is to know...

One does not love with the heart, one loves with the mind. The sole purpose of the heart is to pump blood. To see with the heart is to believe; to see with the mind is to know...

Yes I see what you mean
Much Love Brother
Knowledge is the greatest power

Hotep

Life comes from life. Death is only the beginning ware this life ends and a new one begins. When we closed our eyes on the last life we open our eyes on this life. When we close our eyes on this life we open our eyes on the next life. Life comes from life! We are quick to say..."I don't know any one who came back to talk about it" The "Fact" is...You are the one in question...ware do you "Think" you came from? Now...right here don't act like you know the answer to this question...because you don't because you have not given it enough thought and even that will not do it for you because you don't know who you are. What will you do with the knowledge if some one is able to help you to understand this mystery? What difference is it going to make in your life to know this secret that is just right around the corner in time for "All" of us with out exception. Their is no short-cuts...there is only to understand the true meaning of life and so-called death and what we are here for and what we are suppose to do while we are here in this so-called time. When 97% of ones time is spent in frivilus thought processes that are as common as those of the lower animals...such as reproduction, food and our unique additional needs as humans... clothing, shelter and materilism, serving oppresers and other things that are a total waste of time and life. Ware is there time enough spent to properly understand the higher things of this life...the mysteries?? Most are just slightly amusing them selves on these subjects because they are not that important as making a living and serving and impressing each other...and making sure to keep the bosses happy in between times of becoming offended when truth grabs our attention. The bottom line is...every one will know the truth in the end...and it will not be what you think because we have not spent enough time to really think for our selves. Perhaps when the African in America stops looking in the "Wrong" places...and start to look into "Self"...just maybe in another four or five thousand years we will come up with the answers we are seeking at the rate we are going by way of western "Religions".

Ase`

One does not love with the heart, one loves with the mind. The sole purpose of the heart is to pump blood. To see with the heart is to believe; to see with the mind is to know...

This is so very true indeed.

SALAAM AQI.

I too believe in heaven and he77. I believe that souls that did good works that pleased God will make it into heaven. I also believe that those that died in innocence..for example... a baby dying before birth or a child that died or child that was murdered will automatically go to Heaven. I also believe souls can recycle and come into this world again example ..those who commit suicide. I believe that when we die we will recognize our loved ones that made it to Heaven. I believe that those loved ones that didn't make it to heaven, their existence will be erased from our memory.

I believe there is also a he77. Some say that this Earth we are living in today is he77. Why would God create us then send us to he77(Earth) then bring us back to Heaven only to be sent back to he77(Earth) if we didn't meet God's standards? I know that there are some terrible things happening in this world today but he77 is suppose to be a place of punishment and torment. There are too many pleasures on earth for Earth to be the he77 that the Bible speaks of for that place none of us wants to be.

I believe that we all started our journey in Heaven. There God formed and created us and gives us with the things we need and that powerful thing called will. From heaven, we are birth into this world by way of our mother's womb. When we are born, our test begins. I believe God sends us here to spread HIS love and to help one another along this journey called life. When we die, we go before God. There He shows us our entire life. I believe HE shows us the things we did and I believe HE shows us the things we could have done to make a difference in this world. If God is pleased with our life we claim Heaven as our home. If we have not pleased God then we go to a place not seen by any earthly man...the true he77.

I agree with another perspective shared that our dreams gives us a glimpse of the Afterlife. Like our dreams, spirits in the astral plane can do things without doing them in 'reality.' (If that makes any sense). For example, if you dream you're eating a hamburger, you are only doing so in your imagination; in the physical world you are sleeping, not eating. In the astral plane spirits act in a similar manner, experiencing all kinds of things while being considered 'dead' in this world.

Heaven and hell comes into play depending on a person's perception and alignment with morality. This does not necessarily mean fire and brimstone, nor does it mean it's a forever type of thing. A spirit immersed with guilt, self-doubt, etc. may have as much chance of going to a 'hell' as a spirit who did evil. In fact evil spirits' hell might be nothing more than being around others who are like them. In either case, it is a spiritual place meant to cause a person to grow; it is a form of God's love, no different than how a parent punishing their child shows they love them. The only difference is that it is state that we ourselves choose to go into... once we open our own eyes to what is holding us back from achieving ultimate love and peace either with ourselves, others or both then we will excel to a more peaceful spiritual realm.

But anyway, my feelings are based on a mixture of beliefs, other people's accounts of astral projection and finally my own spiritual experiences. For me it is deeper than a 'belief' but not 'scientific' enough to say 'knowledge.' I believe if you have a number of accounts from people of all faiths that point to the same thing, it is definitely something that cannot be dismissed.

A question for anyone who cares to answer.....

On the heaven and hell thing......If we are no longer in the physical form, how can we feel joy and pain as a spirit? I went to church for plenty of years and the preachers always said that if we went hell our souls would burn in fire and be forever tormented. How is this possible?

A question for anyone who cares to answer.....

On the heaven and hell thing......If we are no longer in the physical form, how can we feel joy and pain as a spirit? I went to church for plenty of years and the preachers always said that if we went hell our souls would burn in fire and be forever tormented. How is this possible?

How do you experience these things when you're sleeping? I would think whatever mechanisms responsible for us being able to have experiences without really experiencing them during sleep are the same elements responsible for what happens after death.

Soo.....If I were dead in my dream, would I know what death felt like? Would it mean that my sould were dead?


How do you experience these things when you're sleeping? I would think whatever mechanisms responsible for us being able to have experiences without really experiencing them during sleep are the same elements responsible for what happens after death.

Soo.....If I were dead in my dream, would I know what death felt like? Would it mean that my sould were dead?

That's a deep question. I would have to say on some level yes, a death dream probably is your spirit's way with letting you know how it feels without actually going through it. And like most dreams, there are probably other 'encoded' messages present to help aide you in whatever you are dealing with in this life.

As far as the soul being dead... I would say if the physical body is still living, no it is not dead. I believe death is defined by whether or not our bodies are functioning here... the spirit housed in the body, (I believe), can never die.

As far as the soul being dead... I would say if the physical body is still living, no it is not dead. I believe death is defined by whether or not our bodies are functioning here... the spirit housed in the body, (I believe), can never die.
where is the brain dead person kept on a ventilator's spirit?

A question for anyone who cares to answer.....

On the heaven and hell thing......If we are no longer in the physical form, how can we feel joy and pain as a spirit? I went to church for plenty of years and the preachers always said that if we went hell our souls would burn in fire and be forever tormented. How is this possible?

I gathered that your soul would never rest! As far as burning no!

where is the brain dead person kept on a ventilator's spirit?

A brain-dead person stays stuck in that state until the physical body dies. The spirit is trapped inside the body.

No they are conditions/lifestyles we put ourselves through.

Here's my perspective on the topic.

http://www.destee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39343

where is the brain dead person kept on a ventilator's spirit?

tho a person's brain is dead, their body is still very much alive and the soul continues to dwell within that body until that soul is called home.

There is a heaven and a hell. Though I don't fully understand what it would be like I do however know what it won't be like. Heaven will not have winged caucasian infants with flutes or harps floating on clouds, There will be no giant grandfather looking white man with a long beard sitting on a golden throne with a long haired hippy Jesus standing next to him. There will be no pearly white gates with a man with a halo sitting there at a judges bench with a ledger. Hell will not be a dark subterranian world with rivers of lava. Hell with not have people being eternally tortured or being eternally consumed by fire. There will not be a red horned minutor type creature with a pointed prehensal tail and a pitchfolk. There will not be lesser versions of this same creature with bat wings flying around.

To me heaven is the dwelling place of God and us in our next state existence. To be in heaven is to dwell in the fullness of God with all God's majestic glory. This is something that can not be described for it is unknown. Heaven is truly undescribeable by human words. Hell is the place one goes after one has seen the full glory of God, felt God's love and is on the threshold of ones highest level of conscious being and then be turned away forever.

We can no more know what it would be like be in our ascended state than a caterpillar knows what it is like to be a butterfly. Though they are in the same chain of life they are not the same being nor do they have the same life. It's like having two lives within a single strand of existence. I use the caterpillar/butterfly analogy a lot because it is an example of stages of life capture within a single existance...


Peace....

Hotep

Life comes from life. Death is only the beginning ware this life ends and a new one begins. When we closed our eyes on the last life we open our eyes on this life. When we close our eyes on this life we open our eyes on the next life. Life comes from life! We are quick to say..."I don't know any one who came back to talk about it" The "Fact" is...You are the one in question...ware do you "Think" you came from? Now...right here don't act like you know the answer to this question...because you don't because you have not given it enough thought and even that will not do it for you because you don't know who you are. What will you do with the knowledge if some one is able to help you to understand this mystery? What difference is it going to make in your life to know this secret that is just right around the corner in time for "All" of us with out exception. Their is no short-cuts...there is only to understand the true meaning of life and so-called death and what we are here for and what we are suppose to do while we are here in this so-called time. When 97% of ones time is spent in frivilus thought processes that are as common as those of the lower animals...such as reproduction, food and our unique additional needs as humans... clothing, shelter and materilism, serving oppresers and other things that are a total waste of time and life. Ware is there time enough spent to properly understand the higher things of this life...the mysteries?? Most are just slightly amusing them selves on these subjects because they are not that important as making a living and serving and impressing each other...and making sure to keep the bosses happy in between times of becoming offended when truth grabs our attention. The bottom line is...every one will know the truth in the end...and it will not be what you think because we have not spent enough time to really think for our selves. Perhaps when the African in America stops looking in the "Wrong" places...and start to look into "Self"...just maybe in another four or five thousand years we will come up with the answers we are seeking at the rate we are going by way of western "Religions".

Ase`
:bullseye: :bullseye: :bullseye: , my thoughts exactly.

Good Morning,

I believe there is Heaven and Hell also. I like what Rich had to say about his belief also. But my mind went to a story in the Bible about the Rich man and Lazarus. It is Luke chapter 16 starting at verse 19. It answers your question Destee.

Peace


This is the passage from Luke you were referring to:

The Rich Man and Lazarus
19"There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21and longing to eat what fell from the rich man's table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.

22"The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23In hell,[c] (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=luke+16&passage2=&passage3=&passage4=&passage5=&version1=31&version2=0&version3=0&version4=0&version5=0&Submit.x=0&Submit.y=0#fen-NIV-25636c)where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'

If you notice, footnote C gives an explanation that it was translated from the Greek word Hades. Hades was allotted the dominion of the Underworld (http://homepage.mac.com/cparada/GML/Hades.html)and rules over the dead. He is known under several other names: Pluto 2, Aedoneus, Orcus and Dis. It is said that Hades was worshipped only in Elis.

Seems like this is more Greek Mythology to me than proof of hell's existence according to Christianity...

If you notice, footnote C gives an explanation that it was translated from the Greek word Hades. Hades was allotted the dominion of the Underworld (http://homepage.mac.com/cparada/GML/Hades.html)and rules over the dead. He is known under several other names: Pluto 2, Aedoneus, Orcus and Dis. It is said that Hades was worshipped only in Elis.

Seems like this is more Greek Mythology to me than proof of hell's existence according to Christianity...

That's correct: most of Christian theology comes from Greco-Roman mythology.

This is increasingly apparent, since the name "JESUS CHRIST" itself is Greek.

PEACE

That's correct: most of Christian theology comes from Greco-Roman mythology.

This is increasingly apparent, since the name "JESUS CHRIST" itself is Greek.

PEACE



Is it really Christian at all or just european pagan beliefs using the name "Jesus Christ," an African man....

Is it really Christian at all or just european pagan beliefs using the name "Jesus Christ," an African man....

I'm not sure that I'm prepared to segregate these various aspects. However, you're probably right, in what you're saying here.

PEACE

this may be useful too: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheol

Sheol is the hebrew word often translated to mean Hell inappropriately, it appears at several places in the bible

this may be useful too: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheol

Sheol is the hebrew word often translated to mean Hell inappropriately, it appears at several places in the bible

Yes, I'm quite familiar with the word Sheol, as well as its meaning.

However, it does not have any sort of spiritual, or otherwordly connotation, but a strictly physical one.

From the Wikipedia site you linked:

"Sheol (שאול) is the Hebrew language word denoting the "abode of the dead"; the "underworld", "grave" or "pit". In the Hebrew Bible it is portrayed as a comfortless place beneath the earth, beyond gates, where both the bad and the good, slave and king, pious and wicked must go after death to sleep in silence and oblivion in the dust.

Indeed, Sheol in many cases does not seem to be an afterlife destination or a location at all, but merely "the grave". In Ecclesiastes, for example, it is stated that "...the dead know nothing; they have no further reward, and even the memory of them is forgotten." and "Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in the grave [Sheol], where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom." (Ecc. 9:5-10, NIV)"

PEACE

Much of christian theology is based on mis-translation, including the virgin birth:

In the past two millennia, there has been considerable controversy among Christians and their opponents about the plain translation and the precise meaning of a small section of Isaiah. For many scholars, the crux of the matter is the translation of the word : עלמה, `almah which has been translated as young woman and as virgin.

In the King James Bible, a traditional Protestant translation, the verses in question run like this:

7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Many modern translations concede that the word in the Hebrew does not mean "virgin". The Revised Standard Version says:

Behold a young woman shall conceive...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgin_Birth_%28Christian_doctrine%29#Dispute_rega rding_Isaiah_7:14

Much of christian theology is based on mis-translation,

Of what, though; that is the question.

including the virgin birth:

In the past two millennia, there has been considerable controversy among Christians and their opponents about the plain translation and the precise meaning of a small section of Isaiah. For many scholars, the crux of the matter is the translation of the word : עלמה, `almah which has been translated as young woman and as virgin.

In the King James Bible, a traditional Protestant translation, the verses in question run like this:

7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Many modern translations concede that the word in the Hebrew does not mean "virgin". The Revised Standard Version says:

Behold a young woman shall conceive...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgin_Birth_%28Christian_doctrine%29#Dispute_rega rding_Isaiah_7:14

My perspective here, is that I'm well-prepared to throw the baby out with the bathwater (pun intended).

Though I recognize and to some extent appreicate the benefit and effort of putting the entire Bible under scrutiny, it ultimately becomes an issue of relevance, as a true scrutinous analysis will transcend Biblical affinities altogether--especially for a striving, seeking Black person who is striving to re-connect himself with his/her ancient spiritual legacy........

A legacy which supercedes the Bible by leaps and bounds.

I mean ... I don't know anyone that has died and come back to tell me about the heaven and/or hell they've ended up in. There's no "real evidence" ... not like we can see and touch and stuff ... that gives us to know that these places exist.

We have to accept and believe these things by faith.

Do you believe they exist? If not, what do you believe happens, if anything, after death?

:heart:

Destee

Salaam,

You are correct. No one has come back to, tell me a **** thing.

I believe heaven and hell are conditions of life.

I believe when we are "physically" dead, we experience "something"

What, I do not know.

But, I don't believe we will be "physically" ressurected.

Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Many modern translations concede that the word in the Hebrew does not mean "virgin".

To believe Mary was a "virgin", makes the Qur'an guilty of the actions of the Bible.

Christianity, as practised in America, can easily be traced back to Rome.

The New Testament is based upon the religions that existed in Rome, at the time of it's writing. Insha Allah, I shall discuss this latter...





The Virgin Mary, in most countries where the Roman faith prevails, is called the Queen of Heaven : this is the very epithet given by the ancients to the mother of Bacchus, who was said to be a virgin. …


We have seen, I think, that it is beyond the possibility of doubt that Buddha and Mercury, sons of Maia, were the same person. This receives a very remarkable confirmation from the fact, that Mercury was always called by the Gentiles the Logos—"The word that in the beginning was God, and that also was a God."* But this Logos we have also shewn to be the Divine Wisdom, and he was, according to the Pagan Amelius, the Creator. He says, "And this plainly was the Logoj by whom all things were made,** he being himself eternal, as Heraclitus would say : and by JOVE the same whom the barbarian affirms to have been in the place and dignity of a principal, and to be with God, and to be God, by whom all things were made, and in whom every thing that was made has its life and being : who, descending into body, and putting on flesh, took the appearance of a man, though even then gave proof of the majesty of his nature : nay, after his dissolution, he was deified again." If this do not prove the identity of Buddha and the Romish Jesus nothing can do it.
**Vol. I. p.118.

The MERCURY of Egypt, Teut-tat, is the same as the Gothic Thiod-tat, or query, Thiod-ad ?* Here we come, perhaps, at the origin of Qeoj. Jayadeva describes Buddha as bathing in blood, or sacrificing his life to wash away the offences of mankind, and thereby to make them partakers of the kingdom of heaven. On this the author of the Cambridge Key** says, "Can a Christian doubt that this Buddha was the type of the Saviour of the world ?" This Buddha the Cantab. supposes to have been Enoch.

* Hermes Scythicus, Origin of Greeks, p.131; Univers. Hist. Vol. VI. p.33.

**Vol. I. p.118.



No person who has considered well the character of the temples on India and Egypt, can help being convinced of the identity of their character, and of their being the production of the same race of people; and this race evidently Ethiopian. The Sphinxes have all Ethiopian faces. The bust of Memnon in the British Museum is evidently Ethiopian. The worship of the Mother and Child is seen in all parts of the Egyptian religion. It prevails every where. It is the worship of Isis and the infant Orus or Osiris. It is the religious rite which was so often prohibited at Rome, but which prevailed in spite of all opposition, as we find from the remaining ruins of its temples. It was perhaps from this country, Egypt, that the worship of the black virgin and child came into Italy, where it still prevails. It was the worship of the mother of the God Iaw, the Saviour; Bacchus in Greece, Adonis in Syria, Cristna in India; composing into Italy through the medium of the two , she was as the Ethiopians were, black, and such she still remains.



M. Dupuis says, the celestial sign of the Virgin and Child was in existence several thousand years before the birth of Christ. The constellation of the celestial Virgin by its ascension above the horizon presided at the birth of the God Sol, or light, and seemed to produce him from her side. Here is the origin of Jesus born from the side of his mother. The Magi, as well as the priests of Egypt, celebrated the birth of the God Sol, or Light, or Day, incarnate in the womb of a virgin, which had produced him without ceasing to be a virgin, and without connexion with man. This was he of whom all the prophets and mystagogues prophesied, saying, "A virgin shall conceive, and bear a son" (and his name shall be Om-nu-al, Om our God). … This is the same virgin of the constellation whom, Eratosthenes says, the learned of Alexandria call Ceres or Isis, who opened the year and presided at the birth of the god Day. It was in honour of this same virgin, (from whom the sun emanated, and by whom the god Day or Light was nursed,) that, at Sais, the famous feast of lights was celebrated, and from which our Candlemas, or our feast of the lights of the purification, was taken. Ceres was always called the Holy Virgin.*
* Dupuis, Vol. III. pp. 40, &c., 4to.



… Pelloutier,* as noticed before, has observed, that more than a hundred years before the Christian æra, in the territory of Chartres, among the Gauls, honours were paid to the virgin (VIRGINI PARITUÆ) who was about to give birth to the God of Light. That was really the Buddhist worship, I have no doubt. The Virgin was the beautiful Maya, the mother of Buddha—the Budwas found in Wales, as noticed in my Celtic Druids.**

* Hist. des Celtes, liv. v. p.15; Dupuis, Vol. III. p.51.

** Ch. v. sect. viii. and xxxvii.



The worship of the Virgin was in no sense applicable to Mary the wife of Joseph. If this worship had been originally derived from her, or instituted in her honour, she would not have been called a virgin as a distinguishing mark of honour; for she was no more a virgin than any other woman who had a large family : for such a family, after the birth of Jesus, it cannot be denied that, according to the Gospel accounts, she had. Therefore why, more than any other woman, should she be called a virgin ? The truth is, that the worship of the virgin and child, which we find in all Romish countries, was nothing more than a remnant of the worship of Isis and the God Horus—the Virgin of the celestial sphere, to whom the epithet virgin, though a mother, was without absurdity applied.

http://members.tripod.com/~pc93/anacv1b6.htm

words of Mr. Godfrey Higgins, from the book "Anacalypsis", writtrn in the 1800's.

insha Allah more, later...

I know this is the wrong thread for this question, but can someone find provide me with some basic facts/beliefs in regard to Kemetic Theology?

CD

Much of christian theology is based on mis-translation, including the virgin birth:

In the past two millennia, there has been considerable controversy among Christians and their opponents about the plain translation and the precise meaning of a small section of Isaiah. For many scholars, the crux of the matter is the translation of the word : עלמה, `almah which has been translated as young woman and as virgin.

In the King James Bible, a traditional Protestant translation, the verses in question run like this:

7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Many modern translations concede that the word in the Hebrew does not mean "virgin". The Revised Standard Version says:

Behold a young woman shall conceive...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgin_Birth_%28Christian_doctrine%29#Dispute_rega rding_Isaiah_7:14
I looked into some translations for the "virgin" word and one was a claim that the word did not translate into "virgin" but was used as a word to describe a woman who was capable of giving birth to a child.What do you know of this?

If much of modern Christianity is taken from Greco-Roman mythology,than what happened to the original form of Christianity?

If much of modern Christianity is taken from Greco-Roman mythology,than what happened to the original form of Christianity?

For one thing, it was not called "Christianity" to begin with.

It has been said, that since Jesus studied under Kemetic priests, as well as Essene masters, that he practiced the esoteric Qabbalistic and Neterian theologies, respectively.

PEACE

I looked into some translations for the "virgin" word and one was a claim that the word did not translate into "virgin" but was used as a word to describe a woman who was capable of giving birth to a child.What do you know of this?

Yes, the original hebrew word could be translated to mean a woman child-bearing age, not one who had never had sex with a man.

For one thing, it was not called "Christianity" to begin with.

It has been said, that since Jesus studied under Kemetic priests, as well as Essene masters, that he practiced the esoteric Qabbalistic and Neterian theologies, respectively.

PEACE


Are the Qabbalistic and Neterian theologies Afrikan in origin?Are they still being practiced today,if so,I want to be invovled.

Yes, the original hebrew word could be translated to mean a woman child-bearing age, not one who had never had sex with a man.
How many kids did the Jesus persona have? ,that is if he (Yeshua,Iyesu) ever existed.

Is not everyone in these books dead??
Therefore they breed death, for death needs more death to sustain itself under 6ether. which is why u find the cross (a symbol of death) at the cemetary!

Does not your preacher prepare u to die to get into a place called heaven instead of teaching how to obtain that reality right now? U can answer here anyway u want but your own mind will serve justice........

peace


Not Changeing the subject but what is ( 6Ether death ) .