Hello Everyone,

Just wondering ... can a person get to "heaven" if they don't pay tithes ... or whatever is synonymous in your faith ... ?

Destee

Thanks for responding Kemetstry. I was speaking specifically regarding financial contributions to a church/pastor.

Can a person get to heaven without giving a portion (10%) of their earnings to a church/pastor?

For the sake of this discussion, we'll assume they are "tithing" in all other areas.

Destee

this issue is one of many dividing walls in the church.
but paying tithes is most definitely not a determinant of divine destiny.
it's not critical since the church isn't told specifically/directly to tithe in the new testament.

however i've come to expect many deeply religious people to think of not paying tithes as a block to the pearly gate's entrance, but that's their shallow and brainwashed conditioning.

Destee, how do you define heaven??

J'hiah ... thanks for joining in on this. My definition of heaven, in regard to this thread, is the place we go after death. Our reward, so to speak, for living a life worthy of being counted pleasing in His eyes. The opposite of hell. :D

If tithing is not necessary for the admission to heaven, why is it so often the topic of many a Sunday sermon? One would think that the things necessary for admission would be more the focus.

Hmmmm ...

Kemetstry ... I understand that and appreciate you sharing it. But the focus seems to overwhelmingly be about cash, financial contributions.

In general, do you think the same amount of effort, energy and/or teaching is done regarding missionary work ... as is put toward encouraging the believers to give money?

Maybe it's just me.

Destee

you're right Destee tithing is the church's hot topic (disregarding other more serious matters of life), but ask any of them where Jesus specifically tells the church to tithe. He doesn't.

and God does not say that he would barr one from heaven for not tithing.
how sick is the church doctrine becoming.

U CAN GET TO HEAVEN BY FAITH AND TRUST IN HE
U CAN PAY TITHE TO YA CHURCH HOME BUT BY GOD
AND DOING HIS WILL SURELY WILL ACCEPT U WITHIN
DA KINGDOM ............

wow ... thank yall for participating in this discussion with me.

What do you think should be the focus of the church ... the topic that should replace "giving your money to the church?" ... the one(s) that are most important?

I think lying and stealing. I think they both speak to the core of a person, requiring them to be true and honest with themselves ... so they can then be true and honest to God and others. Honesty is also the foundation on which most all other things stand, if they are done properly. But of course, I aint no preacher ... so don't mind me. :)

:heart:

Destee

tithing is an act of discipline not a means to getting into heaven. Tithing also involves more than just money but 10% of everything. It is a means to support the church in which you worship. In the Old Testament, the parishoners of such synagogues would bring 1/10th of their grain and wheat to the storehouse which was the place where the priest lived. This was for emergencies as well as helping in sustaining the worko fht echurch. One thing we must be careful of. Tithes are not paid to a pastor but the to continuing work of the church. Also if anyone wanted to pay tithes anf offerings then they must understand that tithed is the 1/10 that constitues discipline whereas offerings is anything obove and beyond tithes, which makes it going above and beyond. Example: If you make $300 a week before taexs and give $40 in the offering plate, then $30 is tithes and $10 is offering.

Hey J'hiah, actually Jesus speaks highly of tithing. As he addresses the Pahrisees he reminds them how they are only tithing in certain areas of their life. His response to them was simply telling them that why tithe in some areas and not all areas. Now He is not directly telling them to tithe only money but He is telling them to tithe in all areas of our lives...

Matthew 23 (KJV)
23 "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law: judgment, mercy, and faith. These ought ye to have done and not to leave the other undone.
24 Ye blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel!


Matthew 23:23-24 (New Iving Translation)
23"How terrible it will be for you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you are careful to tithe even the tiniest part of your income,[5] but you ignore the important things of the law--justice, mercy, and faith. You should tithe, yes, but you should not leave undone the more important things. 24Blind guides! You strain your water so you won't accidentally swallow a gnat; then you swallow a camel!

Just making clear that Jesus did speak of tithing but not in the formal manner which many would like to use it to abuse the congregation into paying money. Tithing is a discipline and one should not be guilted into it. Jesus was making clear to the Pharrisees that they were so strict and critical of everyone else and yet they could not see that they too are not perfect.

Thanks Dnommo for joining in :)

I'm going to take these words from your biblical quote:

... and have omitted the weightier matters of the law: judgment, mercy, and faith ...

which seems to provide evidence that all tithing is not counted the same. Yet, at most every single gathering of believers (and non believers) ... the opportunity to give money is provided by those who are leading the service. As though it is the "weightier matter."

It seems to be just a fact of "church life," one that is not going to change or be questioned to any great degree, at least, not by those who are doing the giving. To question "giving" to your church, could almost appear blasphemous (I think). When folk live by faith, it makes it easier for those providing the "spiritual food" to take advantage of them.

I kinda smiled Dnommo when I read your "$300 a week before taxes" ... do I tithe on the before or after taxes amount ... I remember "discussing that with God" ... :)

Another issue, that money brings into the church is "who gave the most this week or this month or on the building fund." Those folk are usually lifted up and above the rest of the congregation ... usually appointed to positions of leadership ... as though one can "buy" their spot in heaven. Woe unto the poor folk.

:heart:

Destee

thanx for joining in dnommo.

i read your reply and agreed that tithing is in fact an act of discipline.
and i believe wholeheartedly in giving to support your church be it money, cleaning, or any office they may have.

Destee, i bet you already knew this subject is a winding course :wink:

dnommo
Jesus did speak of tithing (of the law) while yet under the Mosaic law which commanded a tenth, so in order for him to have fulfilled it he himself had to obey it for it was applicable for him too.

but aren't we free from the law and the curses of the law(as written)??

once my lease is up and i have paid all of my dues, how am i obligated to pay anything??
i am free from that law, that bind and am free..
in Galatians it says Jesus has redeemed us from the curses of the law.

Besides when the Holy Spirit lives within you want to give more than a tenth.
should i be merciful for a tenth of a day, kind for a tenth of a day,
righteous for a tenth of a day??
of course not.

let's establish one point. is or is not tithing of the law??

thanx for your input.

j'hiah...

we always walk along the same path of understanding. I wholeheartedly honor and respect your views but we must look at what Jesus said. He did tell us that He did not come to destroy the law but to uphold it. It wanot the law that was destroying people but the way it was interpretted. Paul was right when he spoke about redeeming us of the curses of the law but when he spoke that he was writing to a church that was ingoring the proper understanding of the law while, in turn, caused the church to fall away from proper teaching.

Once again Jesus reminded us that if we are going to tithe then we must tithe in everything we do not just a few things. This is a discussion that has placed a choke hold on society.

You have spoken strong here bro' and i look forward to more discussion.

One.

Many of Jesus' parables were concerning monetary items and issues. I can't explain this any better than dnommo has already handled it with the scripture, but I could boil the matter down to a few thoughts....

First, tithing is NOT a determination of the state of one's soul in Jesus Christ (ie salvation). Tithing or Not Tithing won't keep a Christian out of heaven; but it WILL make things rather uncomfortable for Christians at the Judgement Seat of Christ...when we find out what we missed out on by how we obeyed the Word in this area.

No disrespect to some who have spoken on this issue, but I find it curious. On the one hand, you have the crowd saying what the church 'ought' to do for society...but some of that same crowd is against having the church properly funded, from a biblical (not from government, not from foundations, not from other sources than her members) standpoint.

Bills can't be paid for by air!

Then another sore point with me...our money...our income as a people...continues to rise every year, while the nation continues to go down in terms of earning power. Black people, as a whole, made 600 Billion $ in income for the last calendar year. GOD gave us the power to get that wealth...but not for ourselves...to bless others.

A dime and a dollar met in a local cash register at a local business. Said the dollar to the dime, "I'm worth more than you!"
Said the dime to the dollar: "Yeah, but I go to CHURCH more than you do!"

:toast:

So, some have not 'grown' to see the value of the tithe. That's where going to a bible-based, and bible-teaching church will do wonders. I find it intersting that MORE people are upset over the antics of their local church than over Enron, abortion, and other items.

I like how one Christian put it..."When I tithe, I give to God. If God's people mismanage, misappropriate, and misuse God's money, He is going to take it up with THEM...NOT with me!"

I used to be stone cold against tithing. Then I studied the whole concept, from OT to NT, paying particular attention to what Christ said about the matter. Now, I do it, out of love for Christ...and the blessings have returned. NOT only financial, but spiritual, family, employment, bible study, etc.

The blessing of tithing are NOT only financial...there are a whole lot of blessings associated with it.

Mike Ramey

:wave: Haaaaaaaaaaay Mike Ramey :wave:

I think this is the first time I've responded to what you've so graciously added to our Forum! Thank you so much for accepting my invitation, becoming a Columnist on our Forum and a Member of our Family :love:

Originally posted by Mike Ramey
First, tithing is NOT a determination of the state of one's soul in Jesus Christ (ie salvation). Tithing or Not Tithing won't keep a Christian out of heaven; but it WILL make things rather uncomfortable for Christians at the Judgement Seat of Christ...when we find out what we missed out on by how we obeyed the Word in this area.I'm not sure that I understand the above. If tithing or not tithing won't keep a Christian out of heaven, where does the uncomfortable part come into play? Are you suggesting that there are some "not so comfortable places" in heaven for those who didn't tithe? Please explain.

No disrespect has been taken by anything you've shared. I mentioned earlier that most anytime someone questions the necessity (in regard to salvation) of financial tithing ... they are looked at "curiously." It's simply a topic that is not usually met with warm embraces. To ask (a) the question does not mean one is against having the church properly funded. Those that believe, give tithes, do all that is required of them ... they are the church ... and even they are looked at curiously (perhaps even their salvation questioned) if they broach this topic.

I do agree that there is much value in giving, going above and beyond any dollar amount one may have contributed. In regard to people being more upset over the antics of the church ... well ... I think it may be this way because more (spiritually, things right and proper) is expected from the church than these businesses "in the world."

Financial tithing (or any), as a result of being moved by God to do so, is a wonderful and blessed occurrence ... and yes, the rewards are great and too numerous to mention. Unfortunately, it seems that much effort goes into encouraging folk to give their money, as though their salvation requires it ... while considerably less time (comparably) is spent on issues that salvation is dependent upon.

You tell me, what other topic is presented in every single service, with special times set aside specifically for it, often with 2 or 3 occurences? Even the topic, the wages of sin, is sometimes replaced by God's Mercy and Grace ... but never does "the giving of your money" lose its prominent position(s) in the service.

Again Mike ... thanks for being here!

:heart:

Destee

Destee, I wanted to thank you and the fam for making me feel welcome. :heart: This has GOT to be one of the hottest forum sites on the WEB! And, the cleanest. A tip of the hat to you and the fam!

O.K.--First off, IF your church is spending far too much time on the tithing issue, it MAY be time to find another church. In MY church, my Pastor has been there more than 20 years. In HIS view, if the Pastor doesn't teach the congregation what the Bible says about an issue, HE should not be shocked at the results.

Second, churches handle issues differently. That's the beauty of the church, as it is alive and kicking. I can't speak as to the leadership of your church, Destee, or churches you have visited. I can only go with what I know, and what I have seen. If ALL a church is talking about is money, then it MAY be time to move on. Let the Lord lead.

I've been in more than a few churches in my adult years. I was not 'raised' in the church. But, in my present church, I've got a pastor, Rev. Dr. Fitzhugh L. Lyons who has been preaching for 50 years, and has been leading by example for more than 20 years in our present church, Galilee M.B. Church, Indianapolis, Indiana.:) Y'all come, if you visit Naptown!

Anyway, I'll be brief--I'll post on the Judgement Seat of Christ later, because it is a subject that MOST Christians don't know about.

The biblical road on this topic is a simple one. If one's heart is NOT right (ie unconfessed sin, unforgiveness, having a disagreement with one's brother/sister in the Lord) then one SHOULD leave their gift on the altar, and make amends. God doesn't want your money to support His church if one's heart is not right. God wants obedience ahead of sacrifice.

However, I was watching the network news this evening, and the topic of money was all through it....

*Stock report--how much money folk made/lost
*Baseball talks break down--Money Issues.
*Baseball fans say ticket prices too high.
*Millions of dollars in damage from flooding in Germany.
*West nile virus causing problems
*Airlines want bailout or bankruptcy will take place.

And, this was a slow night on the national news scene.

To put it plainly, tithing IS a biblical topic. However, how some churches and individuals handle it, is not biblical.

Mike Ramey

Originally posted by Destee
Hello Everyone,

Just wondering ... can a person get to "heaven" if they don't pay tithes?

Destee

Yes. Paying tithes isn't a commandment, neither is a seat in heaven based on said.

kebah

Originally posted by kemetstry
:cool:

Actually Kebah, it is a commandment. Both old testament and new. Though it does not have to be a monetary tithe. You have to do something worthy of entry.

I disagree with it being a commandment to US. It was spoken at a specific time, a specific amount, to a specific people, for a specific purpose.

kebah

kem,

where in the new testament is the church either commanded or under any law to tithe?
l prefer any direct scripture obligating the church to tithe.

Mike Ramey,
l believe in supporting the church wholeheartedly, but where in the Bible is the church obligated to tithe??

Many of Jesus' parables were concerning monetary items and issues. I can't explain this any better than dnommo has already handled it with the scripture, but I could boil the matter down to a few thoughts....

First, tithing is NOT a determination of the state of one's soul in Jesus Christ (ie salvation). Tithing or Not Tithing won't keep a Christian out of heaven; but it WILL make things rather uncomfortable for Christians at the Judgement Seat of Christ...when we find out what we missed out on by how we obeyed the Word in this area.

No disrespect to some who have spoken on this issue, but I find it curious. On the one hand, you have the crowd saying what the church 'ought' to do for society...but some of that same crowd is against having the church properly funded, from a biblical (not from government, not from foundations, not from other sources than her members) standpoint.

Bills can't be paid for by air!

Then another sore point with me...our money...our income as a people...continues to rise every year, while the nation continues to go down in terms of earning power. Black people, as a whole, made 600 Billion $ in income for the last calendar year. GOD gave us the power to get that wealth...but not for ourselves...to bless others.

A dime and a dollar met in a local cash register at a local business. Said the dollar to the dime, "I'm worth more than you!"
Said the dime to the dollar: "Yeah, but I go to CHURCH more than you do!"

:toast:

So, some have not 'grown' to see the value of the tithe. That's where going to a bible-based, and bible-teaching church will do wonders. I find it intersting that MORE people are upset over the antics of their local church than over Enron, abortion, and other items.

I like how one Christian put it..."When I tithe, I give to God. If God's people mismanage, misappropriate, and misuse God's money, He is going to take it up with THEM...NOT with me!"

I used to be stone cold against tithing. Then I studied the whole concept, from OT to NT, paying particular attention to what Christ said about the matter. Now, I do it, out of love for Christ...and the blessings have returned. NOT only financial, but spiritual, family, employment, bible study, etc.

The blessing of tithing are NOT only financial...there are a whole lot of blessings associated with it.

Mike Ramey

You made some very good points in this! :toast:

....Giving in the New Testament, as seen in the story of the widow, takes more of a voluntary bent than what we see in the Old Testament. One gives out of love in the case of the widow, and one gives out of command in the Old Testament. A careful study of these themes by contrasting stories in the Old and New Testaments will bear out legalistic emphases in the stories for Old Testament, forgiveness, and love in the New Testament.

Since it seems giving was voluntary in Jesus' time, when did the 10% viewpoint come to bear? Upon a careful Bible study on tithing, paying attention to later church documents reveals that the Council of Trent made giving mandatory for Catholics. Since governments had a heavy influence from the church, it was in their interest to create revenue, and giving through the church was their avenue to do so. In Roman days, our Bible study on tithing reveals that Joseph even propounded that gifts should be as much as 30%! Surely the Romans exacted heavy burdens on everyone - perhaps this is why Josephus suggested this amount, to find favor with the Roman elites of which he mingled. After all, he was a major historian of the time.

Obviously tithing in the New Testament is important, or Jesus would not have told the story. The subject may get readers to examine the heart's intent when it comes to earthly and material possessions. Jesus' story of the rich man who couldn't part with his belongings and prayed that others in his family would not end up in Hell, illustrates that hoarding possessions does not produce sacrificial love, but rather a hardness of heart.

Therefore the subject of tithing in the New Testament is mentioned in a gentle way, Jesus giving credence to the widow's actions as the better way to give of one's possessions. The rich demonstrate their opulence and make loud proclamations about how much they give. By contrast, the widow silently crept up and gave what she had. This most likely was not out of shame, but was an act of humility....
http://www.christianet.com/biblestudy/biblestudyontithing.htm



Mark 12:
[41] And Jesus sat over against the treasury, and beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much.
[42] And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing.
[43] And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury:
[44] For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living.

Luke 12:
[16] And he spake a parable unto them, saying, The ground of a certain rich man brought forth plentifully:
[17] And he thought within himself, saying, What shall I do, because I have no room where to bestow my fruits?
[18] And he said, This will I do: I will pull down my barns, and build greater; and there will I bestow all my fruits and my goods.
[19] And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry.
[20] But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided?
[21] So is he that layeth up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God.
[22] And he said unto his disciples, Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat; neither for the body, what ye shall put on.
[23] The life is more than meat, and the body is more than raiment.
[24] Consider the ravens: for they neither sow nor reap; which neither have storehouse nor barn; and God feedeth them: how much more are ye better than the fowls?
[25] And which of you with taking thought can add to his stature one cubit?
[26] If ye then be not able to do that thing which is least, why take ye thought for the rest?
[27] Consider the lilies how they grow: they toil not, they spin not; and yet I say unto you, that Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
[28] If then God so clothe the grass, which is to day in the field, and to morrow is cast into the oven; how much more will he clothe you, O ye of little faith?
[29] And seek not ye what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink, neither be ye of doubtful mind.
[30] For all these things do the nations of the world seek after: and your Father knoweth that ye have need of these things.
[31] But rather seek ye the kingdom of God; and all these things shall be added unto you.
[32] Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.
[33] Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth.
[34] For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

Luke 16:

[19] There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
[20] And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
[21] And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
[22] And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
[23] And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
[24] And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

Hello Everyone,

Just wondering ... can a person get to "heaven" if they don't pay tithes ... or whatever is synonymous in your faith ... ?

Destee
Peace,

Yes, I'm in heaven right now and I don't even acknowledge any tithes. :wink:

Peace

tithing is an act of discipline not a means to getting into heaven. Tithing also involves more than just money but 10% of everything. It is a means to support the church in which you worship. In the Old Testament, the parishoners of such synagogues would bring 1/10th of their grain and wheat to the storehouse which was the place where the priest lived. This was for emergencies as well as helping in sustaining the worko fht echurch. One thing we must be careful of. Tithes are not paid to a pastor but the to continuing work of the church. Also if anyone wanted to pay tithes anf offerings then they must understand that tithed is the 1/10 that constitues discipline whereas offerings is anything obove and beyond tithes, which makes it going above and beyond. Example: If you make $300 a week before taexs and give $40 in the offering plate, then $30 is tithes and $10 is offering.

Hey J'hiah, actually Jesus speaks highly of tithing. As he addresses the Pahrisees he reminds them how they are only tithing in certain areas of their life. His response to them was simply telling them that why tithe in some areas and not all areas. Now He is not directly telling them to tithe only money but He is telling them to tithe in all areas of our lives...





Just making clear that Jesus did speak of tithing but not in the formal manner which many would like to use it to abuse the congregation into paying money. Tithing is a discipline and one should not be guilted into it. Jesus was making clear to the Pharrisees that they were so strict and critical of everyone else and yet they could not see that they too are not perfect.

:toast: Good stuff, here!

Re: I find this quite interesting....

First, tithing is NOT a determination of the state of one's soul in Jesus Christ (ie salvation). Tithing or Not Tithing won't keep a Christian out of heaven; but it WILL make things rather uncomfortable for Christians at the Judgement Seat of Christ...when we find out what we missed out on by how we obeyed the Word in this area.

I'm not sure that I understand the above. If tithing or not tithing won't keep a Christian out of heaven, where does the uncomfortable part come into play? Are you suggesting that there are some "not so comfortable places" in heaven for those who didn't tithe? Please explain.

Anyway, I'll be brief--I'll post on the Judgement Seat of Christ later, because it is a subject that MOST Christians don't know about.

Sister Destee,

My focus and involvement in this thread, only seeks understanding of the above dialogue and to know whether or not Mike posted on the Judgment Seat of Christ, later. If he did, I would like to read it. If Mike didn’t that means you are without clarity based on the question asked. Specifically, you asked, If tithing or not tithing won't keep a Christian out of heaven, where does the uncomfortable part come into play?

Again without knowing what Mike posted later, if any; my only purpose here is to assist you with better understanding of Ramey’s statement, but it WILL make things rather uncomfortable for Christians at the Judgement Seat of Christ...when we find out what we missed out on by how we obeyed the Word in this area.

Let’s begin and end with this (when we find out what we missed out on); here, Mike is simply referring to, the Rewards, and these rewards are measurable.

Peace In my sister friend, for real!

Re: I find this quite interesting....







Sister Destee,

My focus and involvement in this thread, only seeks understanding of the above dialogue and to know whether or not Mike posted on the Judgment Seat of Christ, later. If he did, I would like to read it. If Mike didn’t that means you are without clarity based on the question asked. Specifically, you asked, If tithing or not tithing won't keep a Christian out of heaven, where does the uncomfortable part come into play?

Again without knowing what Mike posted later, if any; my only purpose here is to assist you with better understanding of Ramey’s statement, but it WILL make things rather uncomfortable for Christians at the Judgement Seat of Christ...when we find out what we missed out on by how we obeyed the Word in this area.

Let’s begin and end with this (when we find out what we missed out on); here, Mike is simply referring to, the Rewards, and these rewards are measurable.

Peace In my sister friend, for real!


Heaven is full of poor folks , native American, Samoan, Maoori, Aborigine, African, Chinese, folks of all religions and faiths, and many who spent hungry nights so their children could be fed or died of starvation feeding their children with their last crust of bread

Heaven is full of poor folks , native American, Samoan, Maoori, Aborigine, African, Chinese, folks of all religions and faiths, and many who spent hungry nights so their children could be fed or died of starvation feeding their children with their last crust of bread




Well brother Ankhur,

Supposedly, its okay to refer to you as Putney now. Why would you quote me after reading my reply, if you did read it, which reply was clearly and conditionally redirected to Sister Destee only?

I have had 2 stalkers on this board
and that is one of the reasons I changed my name form Putney Swope to Ankhur, because as long as I did not mention activities of the corporate state I was cool but when I started criticizing Washington policies ,
that is when the COINTELPRO types harrassed me on a daily basis and my computer became full of spyware and viruses everytime I logged on to Destee.com.

http://destee.com/forums/showpost.php?p=608705&postcount=27



Or is it just a Race to the Top for you?


Top Posters in Last 1 Day
» Ankhur

» cherryblossom

» Clyde Coger

» awo dino

» DARKSIDE MAGICK

Well brother Ankhur,

Supposedly, its okay to refer to you as Putney now. Why would you quote me after reading my reply, if you did read it, which reply was clearly and conditionally redirected to Sister Destee only?



http://destee.com/forums/showpost.php?p=608705&postcount=27



Or is it just a Race to the Top for you?


Top Posters in Last 1 Day
» Ankhur

» cherryblossom

» Clyde Coger

» awo dino

» DARKSIDE MAGICK



are you a moderator?

or was my post not answering the original question made by Destee???

What is it that you fear?????????????????????????????????????????????

are you a moderator?

or was my post not answering the original question made by Destee???

What is it that you fear?????????????????????????????????????????????


Sir, you quoted me.

Sister Destee,

Let’s begin and end with this (when we find out what we missed out on); here, Mike is simply referring to, the Rewards, and these rewards are measurable.

Peace In my sister friend, for real!




Thank you for this, Brother Clyde.

Here is a break-down of Salvation-vs-Rewards.....

The Difference Between
SALVATION and REWARDS


1) Salvation is a free gift and can't be earned.
“But not as the offence, so also is the FREE GIFT. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the GIFT by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. And not as it was by one that sinned, so is THE GIFT: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the FREE GIFT is of many offences unto justification” (Rom. 5:15-16; and see also Eph. 2:8-9; Rom. 6:23; John 4:10).

1) Rewards can be earned by faithful service.
“Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God: And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men; Knowing that of the Lord YE SHALL RECEIVE THE REWARD of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ” (Col. 3:22-24, and note that the emphasis of this passage is upon SERVICE).

2) Salvation is not something we deserve.

If God were to give us exactly what we deserve for the way we have lived and for the sins which we have committed, what would He give us?

“If thou, LORD, shouldest mark iniquities, O Lord, who shall stand?” (Psalm 130:3) “The wages of sin is DEATH” (Rom. 6:23).

See also Psalm 103:10.

2) Reward is something that the believer deserves.
“Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds. And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities” (Luke 19:16-17). This man was deserving of reward because his pound gained ten pounds and because he was faithful in a very little. [Caution: The believer who labors faithfully for Christ must never forget what Paul said in 1 Cor. 15:10, “by the grace of God I am what I am...I labored...yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.” So even in the earning of rewards the principle of grace is operative.]

3) Salvation is not given on the basis of works.

“Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, NOT ACCORDING TO OUR WORKS, but according to His own purpose and grace” (2 Tim. 1:9). “NOT BY WORKS of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us” (***. 3:5). “Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness WITHOUT WORKS” (Rom. 4:6).

3) Rewards are given on the basis of works.

“For the Son of man shall come in the glory of His Father with His angels; and then He shall reward every man ACCORDING TO HIS WORKS” (Matt. 16:27). “And, behold, I come quickly; and My reward is with Me, to give every man ACCORDING AS HIS WORK SHALL BE” (Rev. 22:12).

4) Salvation is a present possession (it is something that the believer has now).
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth My word, and believeth on Him that sent Me, HATH EVERLASTING LIFE” (John 5:24). “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on Me HATH EVERLASTING LIFE” (John 6:47). “He that hath the Son HATH LIFE” (1 John 5:12).

4) Rewards are a future attainment (they are something the believer will receive later)
“And thou shalt be blessed; for they cannot recompense thee: for thou SHALT BE [future tense] RECOMPENSED AT THE RESURRECTION OF THE JUST” (Luke 14:14). Believers will receive rewards at the first resurrection, and for church-age believers this will take place at the rapture.

5) Salvation is something that can never be lost.

“My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow Me: And I give unto them eternal life; and THEY SHALL NEVER PERISH [Greek--“they shall never ever perish, no not ever”], neither shall any man pluck them out of My hand” (John 10:27-28).

5) Rewards can be lost.
“Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown” (Rev. 3:11). “Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward” (2 John 8). “For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in My Name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward” (Mark 9:41).

This distinction is clearly seen in 1 Corinthians 3:14-15, “If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss [there will be loss of reward]: but he himself shall be saved [there will not be loss of salvation]; yet so as by fire.”

6) The focus of salvation is upon SIN
(we have a SIN PROBLEM)

“And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for He shall save his people FROM THEIR SINS” (Matt. 1:21).

6) The focus of rewards is upon SERVICE (we have a responsibility to faithfully serve the God who saved us)
“With good will DOING SERVICE, AS TO THE LORD, and not to men: Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free” (Eph. 6:7-8).

7) Salvation involves possessing CHRIST.

“He that HATH THE SON hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life” (1 John 5:12).

7) Rewards involve possessing CROWNS.
“Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth THE PRIZE? So run, THAT YE MAY OBTAIN. And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible CROWN; but we an incorruptible” (1 Cor. 9:24-25).

8) The sinner coming to Christ for salvation hears these words: “IT IS DONE!”

“When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, He said, IT IS FINISHED” (John 19:30).

8) The faithful believer about to be rewarded hears these words: “WELL DONE!”
“His lord said unto him, WELL DONE, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy Lord” (Matthew 25:23).

9) Salvation was accomplished at Christ's first coming.

“This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world [at His first coming] to save sinners” (1 Timothy 1:15).

9) Rewards will be bestowed upon believers at Christ's second coming.
“Henceforth there is laid up for me A CROWN of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that LOVE HIS APPEARING” (2 Tim. 4:8). “And, behold, I come quickly; and My reward is with Me” (Rev. 22:12).

10) Salvation is freely received in a point of time.

In a point of time a person believes on the Lord Jesus Christ and passes from death to life (John 5:24).

10) Rewards are earned throughout a whole believing lifetime.
“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body [from the point of salvation to the point when the believer goes to be with the Lord], according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad” (2 Cor. 5:10).

11) Salvation is based upon what Christ has done.

“Being justified freely by His grace THROUGH THE REDEMPTION that is in Christ Jesus” (Rom. 3:24).

11) Rewards are based upon what we have done (as believers).
“...that every one may receive the things done in his body, ACCORDING TO THAT HE HATH DONE, whether it be good or bad” (2 Cor. 5:10).

12) When it comes to salvation, what is man's part? The answer: FAITH

“And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved” (Acts 16:31).

God does the saving; we do the believing.

12) When it comes to rewards, what is man's part? The answer: FAITHFULNESS.
“He that is FAITHFUL in that which is least is faithful also in much: and he that is unjust in the least is unjust also in much. If therefore ye have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will commit to your trust the true riches? And if ye have not been faithful in that which is another man's, who shall give you that which is your own?” (Luke 16:10-12).

13) The question of salvation: DID YOU BELIEVE ON CHRIST?

“It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to SAVE them that BELIEVE” (1 Cor. 1:21).

13) The question of rewards: HAVE YOU BEEN ABIDING IN CHRIST?
“And now, little children, ABIDE IN HIM; that, when He shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before Him at His coming” (1 John 2:28).

14) When it comes to salvation there are certain things that God does not remember.

“And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more” (Heb. 10:17).

14) When it comes to rewards, there are certain things that God does remember.
“For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have showed toward His Name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister” (Heb. 6:10).

15) Salvation always involves God's full approval in Christ.

“To the praise of the glory of His grace, wherein He hath made us ACCEPTED [highly favored] in the Beloved” (Eph. 1:6).

15) Rewards may involve God's disapproval.

“But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons” (Col. 3:25). See also 1 John 2:28 which implies the possibility of SHAME because of God's disapproval and see Phil. 3:8 where Paul sacrificed all so that he might gain or win Christ and His approval.

16) All believers share the same salvation.

The “salvation package” of one believer contains everything that is found in the “salvation package” of another believer. We share the same “so-great salvation (Heb. 2:3). We are RICH in Christ and possess every spiritual blessing in Him (Eph. 1:3).

16) All believers do not share the same rewards.
“And he said unto her, What wilt thou? She saith unto Him, Grant that these my two sons may sit, the one on Thy right hand, and the other on the left, in Thy kingdom....And He saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on My right hand, and on My left, is not Mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of My Father (Matthew 20:21,23). Not all believers will sit at Christ's right and at His left. This place and position will be reserved for two believers, as determined by God the righteous Judge.

17) When it comes to salvation, when will my judgment take place? Answer: It has already taken place at the cross!
“...the LORD hath laid on Him the iniquity of us all” (Isa. 53:6). “For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God” (1 Pet. 3:18).Because of this fact, the Lord assures the true believer that he will not come into condemnation or judgment (see John 5:24; Romans 8:1).

17) When it comes to rewards, when will my judgment take place? Answer: At the judgment seat of Christ!
“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad” (2 Cor. 5:10). “But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ” (Romans 14:10).

18) Salvation costs nothing.
“Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk WITHOUT MONEY and WITHOUT PRICE” (Isa. 55:1).

18) Rewards cost a life of service.
Serving Christ faithfully in a Christ-hating world can be costly: “Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven...Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: FOR GREAT IS YOUR REWARD in heaven” (Matt. 5:10,12).

19) Salvation is received at the time of JUSTIFICATION.
Salvation is something we get at the beginning.

19) Rewards are received at the time of GLORIFICATION.
Rewards are something we get at the end.

20) We show our gratitude for salvation by faithful service.
“I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God” (Romans 12:1-2).
20) We show our gratitude for rewards by casting our crowns before our Saviour.

“The four and twenty elders fall down before Him that sat on the throne, and worship Him that liveth for ever and ever, and CAST THEIR CROWNS BEFORE THE THRONE, saying, Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for Thou hast created all things, and for Thy pleasure they are and were created” (Rev. 4:10-11).

Paul recognized that any good thing which he did was attributed to the grace of God: “But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me” (1 Cor. 15:10). Even when it comes to faithful service for Christ, we are debtors to the grace of God!


http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/salvatio/rewards.htm

Sir, you quoted me.



my apologies

Can You Get To Heaven Without $$ Tithing?

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Hello Everyone,

Just wondering ... can a person get to "heaven" if they don't pay tithes ... or whatever is synonymous in your faith ... ?

Destee

And there is no warning sign on heaven,
to keep poor folks out from other religons

my apologies


Not a problem, no, not at all.