I have an adult son (22) and a 17 year old daughter. My daughter and I go through heck with my son regarding what she should and should not be able to do. Even though he got to do some of these same things, he feels like she should not be able to ... simply because she's female. So I asked him, what if you had twins, one male and one female ... would you let your son do things that you wouldn't let your daughter do (at age 17). He said yes! :eeek:

Would you make such a difference with your teens simply because one is male and one is female? If so, how do you justify that to your teenage daughter?

Wouldn't that be discrimination?!

Just wondering ...

Destee

coz it's true in our world today so many search for
young tender females yet at the same age a male can
roam freely ......now on da other hand she have as much
rights as he do i only think to limited her play if it's a thing
where i feel she would be in dangered but treat both da
same if she can't go he can't go .....yet i would be more
protected of her then him coz there is some hungry hounds
out their looking for a pray!
kem i strongly agree wit ya big tyme:)

I shudder to say this but I do agree with Kemestry. Being two years younger than my brother and obstinate, I felt that it was only American that I be able to go and do all that he was allowed to do.

I couldn't understand his need to protect me, because in my mind what was good for the goose was good for the gander. Well this gander graduated from the school of hard knocks. One experience I had was during a basketball game. When I was younger it was strictly competition.

As I began to develop (the way girls do) it was a whole new ball game. My brother pointed out to me one night on the way home (after the fight that he started) that the guys were jocking for position to see who would get to guard me next.

One guy did his "hand" check and my brother checked him and it was on. I was a bit niave, but I learned quickly that regardless of how strong or intelligent I am, there are somethings that I just "cannot" do, nor should I even attempt to do. And true to what Keme said that is by design, not an indication of inferiority, just different by design. Granted, as women in today's society, some of us are forced to play dual roles in life. But that is not how it was designed.

My father's analogy was if I can accept that man designs mechanisms with specific purposes that we do not challenge, why is it that we try to manipulate what the Creator "designed" just to suit ourselves. Took me a while, but grasshopper did learn the lesson.

Now, one thing I would suggest is asking your son if he has done or would do the things that he fears happening to baby girl. It might shed some light on his strong reaction. Then again, if it is a single parent house hold he may just feel that it is his responsibility has the "male" to protect his people.

and I'm typin' real slow because it's painful to admit it...but...
:x:
I also have to agree with what Kem said....

I have a daughter who is the youngest, and two sons...my eldest son has a habit of controlling, or trying to control, what my daughter does, who she talks to, and even what she wears, when she is out with them....

this causes a lot of friction because my daughter is strong-minded and resents my son doing this....but on the other hand, he explained from a males point of view, that he hears how the other guys talk about women and knows how they treat them...he does not want his sister treated like, or talked about in this manner...which is okay by me...but try telling my daughter this..

and I have to say, that no matter how independent women become, how hard they they strive for equality, or how much of a feminist they are....basically it's a mans world....and men play by mens rules...it's basic male behaviour to look at a women and size her up...

I also think it is basic male behaviour to be the protector..throughout time it has been mans job to protect the woman or women in his life..I don't think will ever change, not if the man is a decent one anyway...it's inbuilt...

to your last point Destee...maybe it is discrimation but there will always be a marked difference between male and female, the way they behave and the way the rest of society views that behaviour...for example ( and I am not picking on the guys here)..
a guy can have a different girl every night and can boast about it to his pals...this guy is a stud....a girl can practice the same behaviour, and she's a whore....thats just the way it is...so I would have to say, that, even if you had twins, one male one female, that yes, they would have to play by a different set of rules..

K

This is interesting, thanks everyone for sharing your thoughts. I'm going to have my daughter read this and hopefully she'll post her views. I can almost imagine what she'll say ... :)

Destee

what she have to say on this matter
a child output will be something nice.

kids will be kids !
they get in a thang and
see stuff in other way then we
but most of all momma & daddy
set da rules in da house
what they say goes.......dat's dat !:eek:

Kemetstry…It took me a while to respond because I have been very busy. This past week I have had a Physics test, an Integral Calculus test, a U.S. Government test, an Advanced French test, and a six page paper to write for British Literature, not to mention four of my top choice college applications were due. So, excuse me for appearing as though I was not planning to respond. I am not embarrassed at all. :) In fact, I agree with you in that men and women are not the same, and should not be considered as equals.

My brother wants to “protect” me, which I understand and appreciate. He does not want guys to look at me and think of me as disrespectfully as some guys do regard girls. Although I do not believe in the pessimistic theory that “All guys are dogs,” I do believe that anyone and everyone, male and female, will treat you how you allow them to treat you. I cannot help that some guy may look at me and think of me as a sex object or that thereof. I even cannot help whether or not he has the audacity to approach me with such vulgarity. That’s life, neither my brother, nor I can fix that. However, how the situation varies is in how I respond.

I carry myself in a respectable manner. I do not dress suggestively, or act suggestively. I always try to give respect, and I command respect. I am not a stupid girl, and I have my priorities together. I am a very mature young lady, and my mother and brother know this. Don’t get me wrong, there is plenty I know, but even more I don’t know, which I will hopefully learn as I mature. My objection dealing with my brother is that, though I often hear his high opinion of me, it seems as if he forgets who I am when dealing with issues where I am out of his sight. I feel as if he sees me as just his “little sister.” He often makes comments implying that I have “book sense” but no “common sense.” Which I have proven wrong numerous times. I am 17 years old, a senior in high school, and I have never been on a date. That does not bother me much at all because that is not a priority to me. However, I have lived a sheltered life, which I do not rebel against, but sometimes I feel that it gets to be much. My mother considers my brother’s opinion, which is always negative, which limits my privileges that much more. Every single male friend that I have even mentioned to my brother, he refused to consider them as possible nice people, simply because they have male genitalia. He does not trust me to pick my own friends, male friends in particular. (By the way, my mother totally trusts me to make my decisions because she knows that I make mature, well thought through choices.) He always has such brute criticism, yet he cannot find one flaw in my “friend-finding” process. (By the way, all of my friends are intelligent, focused, considerate, respectful, and respectable young men and women…my mother can attest to that.) I am sure he has sound advice that he could give me, so that I may see the male opinion, however, honestly, my brother’s irrational, close-minded views, only makes me feel apprehensive to talking to him about such topics.

It is not so much of whether males and females should get the same privileges, but more about the individual and their maturity level. I do not get to do the things that my brother did when he was my age, and I do not try to. I get practically whatever I want because I do not have unreasonable requests. I am just tired of fighting him for treating me as if I am five and stupid.

~Smartgurl

:wave: :kiss: Haaaaay Momma's Baby !!! :kiss: :wave:

:love:

Very nicely said. You know what? I'm going to try and get your brother to respond! :eeek: :lol:

:toast: This is so great!

You know what else? I had just started writing this long "Momma" reply, but I'm going to save it until after he responds.

I Love You

:heart:

ps ... you could have included a paragraph about how great a Mother I am :wink:

A lot of bread but there is no meat in this samich! That was nice yawl did all that ya ya..... but the bottom line here is big brotha is a DOG!
He know's what dogs do, cause he's one of them! BUT MOMMA and LIL SIS DON'T SEE BETWEEN the LINES! He wouldn't be so dam protective if he wasn't so sure about all the possibilities.

And where were they when he was getting all this knowledge? He know more than his own Mamma! (she raised him, now at 22 he know more than her)

I have 3 sons and if I had a daughter I would raise her no different than my sons I would worry more and yes be a lil more protective but she would have and be allowed the same privilages as my sons!

Black males are in just as much danger or more than females gangs, jail, shootings, drugs, sex the list goes on! My sons are 21, 20 & 14 you can not protect them every day of their life you job as a parent is to equipt them to survive on their own!

(My mother use to say " momma bird's job is to teach baby bird how to fly" and one day she pushes baby bird out of the nest and it must fly or come crashing down to its death!)
I have always believed in empowerment over protection! She should have had a heart to heart with big bro and he told her about all the BS to expect! But noooooo he so busy protecting her and sheltering her they gittin ready to send this full fledeged virgin off to college with lil social skilz!

hmmmmm I so who's gonna protect her THERE? I guess thats where prayer comes in "I hope she allright" Take the shackles off that Young woman and thats her brother not her DADDY!

I have no Biological daughters thats true but I have nieces that I have raised and about 100 serogate daughters I am a mentor for a youth group what you have done is HAMPER this YOUNG WOMANS DEVELOPMENT! Now you gonna send her off in to the wild blue younder and expect her to SOAR LIKE AN EAGLE?


this is UPTOWNE baby!

Originally posted by UPTOWNE
..... but the bottom line here is big brotha is a DOG!
He know's what dogs do, cause he's one of them!

UPPIE ... We have not just met. You know that I am not going to allow you to come in here calling my son ... or anyone's son a dog. Plain and simple.

I've only highlighted this one offensive, unnecessary, uninformed and rude remark, but your post is filled with them.

you got one more time ...

Destee

i don't see her being ova protective just
it's her way and u know dat's da boss u know:lol:

READ MY EMAIL ONE MORE TIME FOR WHAT? YOU BETTA RECOGNIZE!

this is UPTOWNE baby!

UPPIE ... I read your email and replied.

It's you that needs to recognize ...
it's going to be the way that I want it to be, with or without you.

I'd much rather it be with you, but that is totally up to you.

Destee

I see you point and its sad that you don't see mine! you have focused on one or three comments that you have clearly taken out of context I was making a point which you seem to give no merit Kem got it I read the rules of DESTEE DISCUSSION FORUM
Respect all Members and their opinions. No personal attacks will be tolerated. I did not attack you, you are taking it personal That was my opinion, ummmmmmmm "you got one more time" is a threat, I consider threats attacks! ( but its your home you can break the rules) You made that the focal point of what I was saying! This was my focal point

1.) He wouldn't be so dam protective if he wasn't so sure about all the possibilities.

2.) I have 3 sons and if I had a daughter I would raise her no different than my sons I would worry more and yes be a lil more protective but she would have and be allowed the same privilages as my sons!

3.) you can not protect them every day of their life you job as a parent is to equipt them to survive on their own!

4.) My mother use to say " momma bird's job is to teach baby bird how to fly" and one day she pushes baby bird out of the nest and it must fly or come crashing down to its death!)

5.) I have always believed in empowerment over protection! She should have had a heart to heart with big bro and he should tell her about all the BS to expect!

6.) who's gonna protect her when she's away at college? You should be preparing her for this transition not sheltering her from the ills of what could be. ( I have seen so many young women go away to school and have the young men on campus screw over them cause they didn't know how to handle and there was no one there to look out)

7.) What you have done is HAMPER this YOUNG WOMANS DEVELOPMENT! Now you gonna send her off in to the wild blue younder (college) and expect her to SOAR LIKE AN EAGLE?

Had you said your use of the word dog to discribe what you THINK my sons behavior is, is unacceptable I can clearly see your point ! my bad.

what you don't see is I have a different style of doing things that I have your daughters best intrest at heart ( no I don't agree with everyone else that big brother is right)

Don't portray me as this insensetive ogre that spits out obsenities I am far more than that this is just too close to home don't censor me then I wouldn't be Uptowne I 'd be DESTOWNE

Can we agree that its OK to disagree?

UPPIE ... Unfortunately, I have had a "not so pleasant" encounter with you in the past (but many good ones as well) and am now bracing myself for what I know can happen. I understand that "your way" is yours and I'm not trying to take that from you or have you adjust it in any way for me. But on the same hand, understand that I am me and have "my way" too. If "our ways" keep us from being able to "live and interact with" each other, that's our loss.

You're right, I've not seen your point and haven't really tried to because the way you presented that point was rude and obnoxious. So far as I'm concerned, the message got lost in its presentation. UPPIE, this is only my opinion and how I perceived it. Someone else may be able to "feel" all that you are saying and agree wholeheartedly with you. But someone else does not have the responsibility of making sure that everyone who comes here are made to feel welcome, not attacked, their children called names, etc., when they decide to share here.

If you'll do and say these things to me, you will do it to anyone here. While this may be everyday behavior for you and those you live around ... it is not what I'm accustomed to and there's no way you are going to make me feel comfortable about it.

UPPIE ... This forum takes a lot of my time and the last thing I need is to be wondering if one of the Members is going to "be themselves" and offend those who call this home. I just don't have time for it and it is much easier for me to rid myself of the situation so I can focus on other things.

Again, I understand that this is your way of delivering your message (jokes, whatever) and you are entitled to it. I'm simply trying to get you to see that it's not acceptable here.

We can agree that you will consider that not everyone understands and embraces the way you present your messages and you'll try to be cognizant of that ... so you don't offend people unintentionally.

Destee

i feel a vibe of bad notions
our children is our biggest gift

surely none walk on four legs
big bruthas should protect their sistah/s
now i agree wit some of this yet i respect
what others say but i make da rules in my
house........i have two sons and if i had a gurl
she would not do wht te boyz do i wsn't a dog
nor have i ever treated a lady in a bad way
we just didn't agree on ****......but everybody
have their own rules and how they feel
but to name or call a child a dawg ain't respectful
Kem i feel ya man but dat is a no no:nono: :nono: :nono:
what was said about her son..........

all points r made in ways to understand
this my way and gurls r protected more
then boyz sure i worry bout my boyz coz
things happen to them also i agree we do have to
think about gangs/// drug dealers/// even men liking boyz
but most can target a gurl faster
NOW.........WHAT'S DA PROBLEM HERE .....!

destee is the boss ya'll do respect what she ask
and please don't step on her feelins......i'm lovin da
points made here on dis ........so WATCH YA SELF!!!

i'll be watching from above closely .......$R:maddd:

Rich I wanna be frank I don't wanna break none of the" BOSSES " rules but she did encourage me to speak openly in this forum and not respond privately in an email.

I think that you are catering to the Boss! and thats OK! Kem didn't say that it was OK to call her son names what he did say that I so adamently opposed her view and agreed with her daughter, that she was using her position as modoratoring founder to put me in check! (and thats OK too "her page"
she's the boss) She wants to set the tone fine! thats all kem said so I don't see where he's wrong!

" KEMESTRY: Uppie
Big brother does not have to be a dog to care and watch out for his sister. I was a big brother and never a dog. But I did not have to inhale to know of the detrimental effects of drugs either"
and
"KEMESTRY: Destee Destee Destee
Its one thing to be a proud parent. Its another to dawg Uppie cause he had the nerve and audacity to agree with your daughter so sternly. You are being over protective. Chill. Nothing that Uppie said deserved those kinda threats geez"

What believed I was bringing to the whole delema was fresh a in your face style, that she didn't take to kindly to. I didn't feel what I said was an insult until she pointed it out. No I wasn't gonna make nice nice comments like the rest of you had done (my reference to all that ya ya in my first post) I wanted mine to be raw, hardcore biting and to the point. The points I stated in my last post( "now shes trying to shackle me")

I don't post here often and to be kicked out would be no great loss I have other places to post. I do enjoy this forum and would like to continue to be associated, I like the feedback. I got off on the wrong foot with the boss (twice!) I think she's overly sensetive (but again thats my opioin)

However understand this! I am a man I don't cowtow to anyone! Your comments to Kem should have been directed to me since I made the remarks by directing them to KEM is umm sucking errr kisssing ahhhhh cowtowing is that how you got to be member of the year? I hope I didn't offend anyone.

UPPIE ... I've obviously not convinced you that this is my forum and it will be administered in the way that I see fit. Long before you began posting, this was established and I'm well into my 2nd year of doing it. I think you were disrespectful and that's all it takes for it to be disrespectful, here. Rather than simply saying, "Okay Destee, it's your place and I'll act accordingly," you've chosen to argue with me (and now my "Member of the Year") regarding your position, definitions, my rules, your intent, blah, blah, blah ...

You've both emailed me and responded here on the forum. For the record, I would have preferred that you kept it on the forum. I have nothing to hide and the same things I'd say via email, I'll say here. In addition, there may be others who can benefit from understanding how things are run here, and by whom.

You won't win this argument.

If I feel you're being disrespectful, disruptive, etc., you will not be able to post here. Period.

Destee