Black Men : The Masculinity Project [Archive] - Black People | African Americans

cherryblossom

10-31-2009, 02:30 PM

http://citypaper.net/articles/2009/04/09/national-black-programming-consortium-the-masculinity-project
The Masculinity Project
The NBPC looks at what it means to be a modern African-American male.
by Andrew Amundson
Published: Apr 7, 2009

Is President Barack Obama black enough? 50 Cent: good for America? Scribe Video and the National Black Programming Consortium (NBPC) will ask these questions, among others, at their collaborative series that explores what it means to be an African-American male today. Conceived as a live extension of their Web-based content (at nbpc.tv), NBPC organizers will present five short films that probe pop-sociological archetypes and tell trans-generational stories of black men who've grappled with the interrelated essence of both "manhood" and "blackness."

The shorts include Beirut Boys, a look at 17-year-old slam poet Derrick Toler shifting between the duplicity of "corner boy" and aspiring college student, knowing hard knocks in prison are met with more respect than an undergrad degree. Barack & Curtis: Manhood, Power & Respect is a never-simple look at the Ivy League-preened President Obama and street-accredited 50 Cent, both cultural icons who perhaps aren't so dissimilar. And Harlem Greenthumb is the story of a group of retired men who meet daily to cultivate their garden and community on 131st Street and Madison Avenue, but face losing their urban Eden when a developer buys up their lot.

Three of the night's filmmakers — El Sawyer, Nonso Christian Ugbode and Phil Bertelsen — will be in attendance to discuss their works. Referring to his own flick, Beirut Boys, Sawyer says the event should get you thinking. "It is about race, class, masculinity, the need for a father — all those things," he says. "But it's meant to raise questions, not answer them."

Ankhur

10-31-2009, 03:58 PM

cherryblossom

10-31-2009, 04:43 PM

Originally Posted by cherryblossom
http://citypaper.net/articles/2009/0...linity-project
The Masculinity Project
The NBPC looks at what it means to be a modern African-American male.
by Andrew Amundson
Published: Apr 7, 2009

Is President Barack Obama black enough? 50 Cent: good for America? Scribe Video and the National Black Programming Consortium (NBPC) will ask these questions, among others, at their collaborative series that explores what it means to be an African-American male today. Conceived as a live extension of their Web-based content (at nbpc.tv), NBPC organizers will present five short films that probe pop-sociological archetypes and tell trans-generational stories of black men who've grappled with the interrelated essence of both "manhood" and "blackness."

The shorts include Beirut Boys, a look at 17-year-old slam poet Derrick Toler shifting between the duplicity of "corner boy" and aspiring college student, knowing hard knocks in prison are met with more respect than an undergrad degree. Barack & Curtis: Manhood, Power & Respect is a never-simple look at the Ivy League-preened President Obama and street-accredited 50 Cent, both cultural icons who perhaps aren't so dissimilar. And Harlem Greenthumb is the story of a group of retired men who meet daily to cultivate their garden and community on 131st Street and Madison Avenue, but face losing their urban Eden when a developer buys up their lot.

Three of the night's filmmakers — El Sawyer, Nonso Christian Ugbode and Phil Bertelsen — will be in attendance to discuss their works. Referring to his own flick, Beirut Boys, Sawyer says the event should get you thinking. "It is about race, class, masculinity, the need for a father — all those things," he says. "But it's meant to raise questions, not answer them."

forget it Black men are not haveing homosexuals to preach to our sons and young men, period case closed

Reading is Fundamental.
There is nothing in this article about homosexuality.

Ankhur

10-31-2009, 05:34 PM

The Masculinity Project

What does it mean to be a man? The Masculinity Project will gather multi-generational voices to explore this question, with a focus on the black community in the 21st century. Through a multimedia enabled interface, the project will allow video/audio playback, social networking, and community forums around important topics of justice, family, community and culture.

http://blackpublicmedia.org/catalog/channel/masculinity

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therfore I guess this part of the post was put up as a distraction?
gimme a break

Nasheed

10-31-2009, 05:56 PM

Nasheed

10-31-2009, 06:48 PM

The Masculinity Project

What does it mean to be a man? The Masculinity Project will gather multi-generational voices to explore this question, with a focus on the black community in the 21st century. Through a multimedia enabled interface, the project will allow video/audio playback, social networking, and community forums around important topics of justice, family, community and culture.

http://blackpublicmedia.org/catalog/channel/masculinity

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I let my 10 year old son watch 1 min of this clip and asked him what he thought about these two Brothers. Well, needless to say he picked up on the way they presented themselves and ya know the answer. I told him what their topic was about and he asked "How can they speak on what a man is when they like men?"
Willie Lynch is still alive and kicking.

Ankhur

10-31-2009, 08:44 PM

I let my 10 year old son watch 1 min of this clip and asked him what he thought about these two Brothers. Well, needless to say he picked on the way they presented themselves and ya know the answer. I told him what their topic was about and he asked "How can they speak on what a man is when they like men?"
Willie Lynch is still alive and kicking.
especially when they find no difference between masculinity and femininity

that only serves the Illuminati's plan to continue emasculating the Black man, and destroy the Black family!!!!

Ankhur

10-31-2009, 09:01 PM

especially when they find no difference between masculinity and femininity

that only serves the Illuminati's plan to continue emasculating the Black man, and destroy the Black family!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeREN_rwnVA
please watch this and it explains the conspiracy
from Prof. Griff

cherryblossom

11-01-2009, 09:23 AM

You two, of course, can continue to discuss whatever you choose from this topic.

However, THE MASCULINITY PROJECT (http://blackpublicmedia.org/catalog/channel/masculinity) is a venue for multi-generational people to voice their stories and views and experiences on being a Man through video.

Now, if you'd check the website (http://blackpublicmedia.org/catalog/channel/masculinity), you'll find that this Project has a wide variety of videos concerning Black Manhood.

Yes, that earlier video features two homosexual men; and there is even a video about a woman who is trans-gendering to a man. But, this website and its mission is not just about homosexuality or transgenders, although those are issues that are a part of our Black communities.

To concentrate on that one video is seeing only a "tree" and not the "forest."

However, there are other stories on that website (http://blackpublicmedia.org/catalog/channel/masculinity) which are conducive to some real, relative dialogue about Black Manhood....

FOR EXAMPLE:

The Masculinity Project: Juror #6 10mins
Produced by Rachel Lyon (Lioness Media)

Juror Number Six is produced and directed by Emmy Award winner Rachel Lyon. It is a gripping short documentary film for the Internet, exploring the symbiotic relationship between the media, race, crime and punishment. Punchy, personal, and political, the film presents the viewer as juror – we are all “Juror Number Six.” WATCH: JUROR # 6 (http://blackpublicmedia.org/catalog/prod/96)

The Masculinity Project: Manhood
Produced by CTVN

“Manhood” sketches a day in the life of the main character, Marcus, a young person on the verge of becoming a man. Being from Chicago’s West Side, Marcus faces many tough decisions everyday. Pressure from gangs, difficulty in school, family issues and mounting peer pressure threaten to derail Marcus. Will he take the easy way out, or will he make the difficult decisions that he needs to in order to become a man? “Manhood” articulates a positive definition of masculinity for young men of color, combining a gripping story and real interviews with young Chicago males. The video was created entirely by four youth producers in Community Television Network’s summer intensive video program in Chicago. WATCH: "MANHOOD" (http://blackpublicmedia.org/catalog/prod/128)

HERE IS THE COMPLETE "D.R.E.A.M Project" video (http://blackpublicmedia.org/catalog/prod/108) (Developing, Renewing, Embracing, Aspiring MEN)

ALSO:

The Masculinity Project: Harlem Greenthumb 10mins
Produced by Kay Shaw, Nonso Christian Ugbode, Tate Nova

For about ten years a group of retired black men have been meeting every other day on the corner of 131st Street and Madison Avenue in Harlem, bonding, growing a community garden and living an often ignored communal experience. As a developer moves on them and they lose their garden the question of their community surviving is one with no ready answer. How do communities like these survive in the face of a rapidly developing urban landscape? How can we make sure these stories of camaraderie and community make it into the mainstream?
WATCH: "HARLEM GREENTHUMB (http://blackpublicmedia.org/catalog/prod/127)

AND:

The Masculinity Project: Andrew (Invisible Men) 6mins
Produced by Angela Tucker

Today the face of homelessness in America is this: a black man, around 40 years old, living in a large urban city. The Invisible Men series are artful, experimental snapshots into the lives of two formerly homeless men in New York City. Here Andrew, a formerly homeless man, who lost his mobility from frostbite on the streets, ponders the strife that preceded his current home. How does Andrew’s story spark a fruitful national conversation on this issue?
WATCH: ANDREW (http://blackpublicmedia.org/catalog/prod/109)

The Masculinity Project: Gregory (Invisible Men) 6mins
Produced by Angela Tucker

Today the face of homelessness in America is this: a black man, around 40 years old, living in a large urban city. The Invisible Men series are artful, experimental snapshots into the lives of two formerly homeless men in New York City. Here we meet Gregory who admits that moving out of the homeless community is a struggle but one he was willing to undertake because “you can’t grow old on the street.” How does Gregory’s story shine a light on this national problem? WATCH: GREGORY (http://blackpublicmedia.org/catalog/prod/110)

But, of course, you can continue to discuss homosexuality, if you so choose.

Ankhur

11-01-2009, 09:43 AM

Nasheed

11-01-2009, 10:37 AM

Ankhur

11-01-2009, 10:37 AM

Yes, I posted it.

That video is just ONE example of the views expressed through "THE MASCULINITY PROJECT." But, the views expressed in that video does not speak for ALL homosexual men.

Whether you like it or not, agree with it or not, homosexuality IS a part of our Black communities. There are Black homosexual parents and mentors all over this country.

Now, in conjunction with "What is a Man?" or "What is a Black man?," or "Black Manhood," the issue of homosexuality is always a touchy area.

FOR EXAMPLE:

The Masculinity Project: Doctor Al's Rebels (Part One) 10mins
Produced by David Barclay Moore

Photographer David Barclay Moore turns his still camera in for video as he explores the life of a black male couple running a soft-ball team and raising three young children. Nigel and his husband Dr. Al, the team sponsor, share fathers day and a day of sport in the park discussing their relationship, the uniqueness of their team, and the hurdles involved raising small children. How do non traditional family structures challenge old norms of parenting and social understanding?

PART ONE (http://blackpublicmedia.org/catalog/prod/98)

The Masculinity Project: Doctor Al's Rebels (Part Two) 10mins
Produced by David Barclay Moore

PART TWO (http://blackpublicmedia.org/catalog/prod/99)

Oh....And, by the way, there is ONE straight/heterosexual Black man on this softball team. He is good friends with Dr. Al and harbors no homophobic views which would prevent him from playing on his team.....The man also brings his family to the games.
Who cares,
the proof will be in how many serious Black men here
and elswhere will aprove of this stuff,
or even think it is apropriate for the young men in their communities

Ankhur

11-01-2009, 10:42 AM

cherryblossom

11-01-2009, 11:13 AM

You are the one who posted that ,
what are you talking about?????, and if you did not post it there would be no issue.

Yes, I posted it.

That video is just ONE example of the views expressed through "THE MASCULINITY PROJECT." But, the views expressed in that video does not speak for ALL homosexual men.

Whether you like it or not, agree with it or not, homosexuality IS a part of our Black communities. There are Black homosexual parents and mentors all over this country.

Now, in conjunction with "What is a Man?" or "What is a Black man?," or "Black Manhood," the issue of homosexuality is always a touchy area.

FOR EXAMPLE:

The Masculinity Project: Doctor Al's Rebels (Part One) 10mins
Produced by David Barclay Moore

Photographer David Barclay Moore turns his still camera in for video as he explores the life of a black male couple running a soft-ball team and raising three young children. Nigel and his husband Dr. Al, the team sponsor, share fathers day and a day of sport in the park discussing their relationship, the uniqueness of their team, and the hurdles involved raising small children. How do non traditional family structures challenge old norms of parenting and social understanding?

PART ONE (http://blackpublicmedia.org/catalog/prod/98)

The Masculinity Project: Doctor Al's Rebels (Part Two) 10mins
Produced by David Barclay Moore

PART TWO (http://blackpublicmedia.org/catalog/prod/99)

Oh....And, by the way, there is ONE straight/heterosexual Black man on this softball team. He is good friends with Dr. Al and harbors no homophobic views which would prevent him from playing on his team.....The man also brings his family to the games.

Kamau47

11-01-2009, 11:46 AM

cherryblossom

11-01-2009, 11:57 AM

Sistah Cherry Blossom:

I appreciate you presenting this project. I must admitt I was puzzled back by the 1st clip so I spoke on it. I have my personal feelings on feminized men but I will look into the whole of what you posted. Don't want to appear to be Jackin your thread.

Thank You again for the post.

Nasheed Hameen

Thank you very much.

Yes, that particular video (and some others) about homosexuality will make some uncomfortable and/or angry because of views/perceptions on homosexuality.

But, there is SO much more to offer on that website. Some of those videos are quite touching, some are thought-provoking and some, just informative; but they all speak to matters and issues in the Black community and Black Manhood.

Check it out....There's some good stuff there!

cherryblossom

11-01-2009, 11:58 AM

This all sounds like a homosexual organization trying to convince straight people that we are all the same.
Sorry, I'm not buying it. Gay people are wrong, just wrong, and they're not gonna convince me I am just like them.

And no one is gonna tell me what it is to be a black man. You can't explain it. It's just who I am.

And I'm sure your views are also reflected through THE MASCULINITY PROJECT as well.

That's what the website is all about...Garnering discussion on Black Manhood.

You've just given your stance on it. :toast:

cherryblossom

11-01-2009, 12:02 PM

Who cares,
the proof will be in how many serious Black men here
and elswhere will aprove of this stuff,
or even think it is apropriate for the young men in their communities

What "stuff?" You looked at ONE video. Saw it concerned homosexuality and dismissed the entire Project.

Well if you say,

examine it first, I will

That would be sensible.

cherryblossom

11-01-2009, 02:16 PM

The Masculinity Project: Anthony Morris (My Life, My Hustle) 10mins
Produced by Anthony Marshall

Filmmaker Anthony Marshall introduces us to Brooklyn real estate agent and family man Anthony Morris. Marshall highlights the life of a black professional juggling family life and personal aspiration within a demanding industry. Anthony shares the story of a background that was less than ideal but he does not dwell on that. Through a demanding work schedule and family life he seems only focused and determined to attain a personal goal he set for himself. How does a young man in America develop an internal compass which can help drive such determination and focus?

ANTHONY MORRIS: MY LIFE, MY HUSTLE (http://blackpublicmedia.org/catalog/prod/105)

The Masculinity Project: Ise Lyfe (My Life, My Hustle) 10mins
Produced by Anthony Marshall

Spoken word emcee Ise Lyfe gives the viewer a visitor’s pass to the streets of Oakland, California. From street to studio Ise Lyfe tells of the difficulty, and artistic fuel born from living in a violent urban condition. Ise Lyfe takes evident pride in lyrics and poetry that are not really mainstream but targeted at maintaining the classic mission of clever and informed word play. What is the voice of the young black man in America today? Have the sometime stereotypical images and lifestyles associated with hip hop altered the true potential of Ise Lyfe’s chosen form of personal expression? ISE LYFE: MY LIFE, MY HUSTLE (http://blackpublicmedia.org/catalog/prod/103)

The Masculinity Project: Steven Corbis (My Life, My Hustle) 10mins
Produced by Anthony Marshall

Steven once flirted with hip hop dance as a career although that now lies in the past the Con Edison electrician and father of one reminisces fondly about those days, recounting his dreams and acknowledging his views on how reality has changes, or rather evolved those dreams. While navigating a culture which places high value on careers for black men which seem unattainable to all – basketball player, hip hop artist, etc – how can young black men truly learn to appreciate a broader set of occupational options? Steven Corbis: My Life, My Hustle (http://blackpublicmedia.org/catalog/prod/111)

jamesfrmphilly

11-01-2009, 10:17 PM

:10500: while not hating on the gay brothers i would not be taking any masculinity lessons from them either....

Josef

11-02-2009, 02:54 PM

so they should learn from homosexuls?

with them already prominent in the rap game?

{positivite interaction}
Learn from where ever we can gain strength, knowledge, success....

or should we not?:10500:

Kamau47

11-02-2009, 04:43 PM

{positivite interaction}
Learn from where ever we can gain strength, knowledge, success....

or should we not?:10500:

Not.

Ankhur

11-02-2009, 05:12 PM

Not.
For 35,000 years of oral history passed down by Griots, we as a people, thrived on traditions, and rites of passage that assured a future life of dignity, and lasting love through the God given joy of nuptual bliss, to the future of every young man and woman in the community.
lonelines as well as selfishness were practically unknown, and there was no problem regading gender confusion or doubt.
Wether homosexuality existed or not in precolonial Africa, one must research to find out but, the civil rights struggle of the 60s and even before and after,
has shown that we are not gay bashers, nor do we need any one to tell us about being tolerant.
We all have those who are not heterosexual, on our block, on the job, and in our families and we as Black men have enough self esteem and assurance in our manhood to respect them and befreind them as anyother brother.
The 60s made the homosexual brother into an icon who chose to emphasize their Blackness and left their sexual prefrences while known to the public as just that, their sexual preferences.
James Bladwin was a champion and giant to Black folks the world over and his outrage and power to speak out regarding White Supremacy was paramount.
Langston Hughes was our greatest poet of the art poetry in general and the great social poetry of righteous indignation againat Jim Crow, and even today his poems are found to be prophetic.

But let's be clear at no time did these two brothers attempt or alude to telling brothers and young boys what manhood is or about nor did they enter the conversation of masculinity.

Some think effeminization is the cure to the wilding attitudes of those youth in our community who are not on any testosterone overload but 7 out of 10 are the results of being given RIDALIN as a child.

the homosexual brother can teach our young men much, in the arts and sciences, but when it comes to masculinity, hey.... we never had a tradition of that old, any thing goes foolishness, and common sense says the line should be drawn somewhere.

The heavily attacked by COINTELPRO Afrocentric Movement, that gave us the Alaashe, of Yoruba, and the Nguzo Saba, already had the answer to the dilemnas of the youth regading masculinty.

It was called the Rites of Passage for young men and young womenSomething we had maintained for 35,000 years, and just regained in the past 35 years

What still today is effective and based on as Malcolm stated African principals is the Nation of Islam's Young Men's Training and Young Women's Training, that covers every aspect of the development of dignified and reponsible masculinty with sensitivty and femininity with strength.

What is needed like the old Deacon's for Defense in the late 50s, that protected the community from the Klan,
is a Nation of Christianity, because it was the Deacon's for Defense that turned Prince Hall around and the church around, to get involved with the development of the youth on every level.

cherryblossom

11-03-2009, 04:22 PM

...This project is all about sharing varied voices on an agreed topic, our social love affair with masculinity in all its forms.

The Masculinity Project will include digital reversions of classic documentary works, specifically commissioned short pieces for the web (audio and video), and finally the community voice, in the shape of an outreach campaign with local community organizations across the nation, viewer interaction on the web, and also short video submitted by you which could get you 0!
........

Going even further The Masculinity Project will also be asking for you to submit your short pieces about your thoughts on black masculinity. These pieces should be no longer than 10 minutes; feel free to be bold and provocative. Irreverent, unexpected and humorous are definitely fair game too....
http://www.nbpc.tv/news.php?show=3070

The Masculinity Project: Remix: 10 Days In Africa 10mins
Produced by Regi Allen. Remix produced & edited by Sabrina Gordon.

When Regi Allen steps off the plane in Accra nothing at all is what he expected. In this energetic look at the link between the past and the present, between African American and African, Allen journeys in musings through unfamiliar surroundings with a craving for understanding long-before nurtured. Through tours of slave forts, pool side parties with diplomats, and traditional ceremonies with kings, Allen asks questions about identity that reveal as much as they complicate.

10 Days In Africa (http://blackpublicmedia.org/catalog/prod/134)

skuderjaymes

11-27-2009, 03:03 PM

LOL!

Well, this too was a video from the Masculinity Project.

Yes, it speaks to homosexuality.

However, when I think about all the hyper-masculinity amongst our young
Black men who think being "Hard" makes them a Man, the taboo and fear of
even being THOUGHT of being "weak" denotes being a homosexual or less
than a "real" man in our communities.

I'd like to challenge your ideas on this.. these dudes are homosexual.. I
knew that before I pushed play.. sitting too close.. and homosexuality has
nothing to do with weakness.. it has to do with having sex with a man..
with physically loving a man the way men love women.. that has nothing to
do with strength and weakness. and the relationship between masculinity
and homosexuality is not something, in my opinion, that should be thrown in
with general discussion of black masculinity. that, to me, is a deceptive way
of cloaking a homosexual agenda in a program aimed at young men.. and it
also gives the impression that homosexuals make up a significant percentage
of the black male community. And that impression is itself a psychological
attack on the character of black masculinity. So, to see homosexuals under
the banner of black Masculinity is disturbing. Black Gay Masculinity would be
a more accurate title. Everyone of the videos at the masculinity project
has an opening graphic that features two men hugged up like women.. that
to me negates everything else they may have to say..

Jahari Kavi

11-27-2009, 03:44 PM

skuderjaymes

11-27-2009, 05:04 PM

yeah.. and it's really a shame because the masculinity project has some really wonderful content.
it's too bad they have decided that slip this homosexual thing onto the intro of every film..

cherryblossom

11-27-2009, 05:34 PM

I'd like to challenge your ideas on this.. these dudes are homosexual.. I
knew that before I pushed play.. sitting too close.. and homosexuality has
nothing to do with weakness.. it has to do with having sex with a man..
with physically loving a man the way men love women.. that has nothing to
do with strength and weakness. and the relationship between masculinity
and homosexuality is not something, in my opinion, that should be thrown in
with general discussion of black masculinity. that, to me, is a deceptive way
of cloaking a homosexual agenda in a program aimed at young men.. and it
also gives the impression that homosexuals make up a significant percentage
of the black male community. And that impression is itself a psychological
attack on the character of black masculinity. So, to see homosexuals under the banner of black Masculinity is disturbing. Black Gay Masculinity would be a more accurate title.

Well, I never said that I agreed with that video. I don't agree with everything they said, at all.

What I was speaking to was the perception about homosexuality in the Black community versus the definition of a "MAN."

However, it still, for me, speaks to "What Is A Man?."

If a homosexual Black man is taking care of himself, taking care of his parent(s), taking care of children (either adopted or of family members who can not provide for them), trying to mentor and uplift young Black children to go further, and, basically, doing all the things we associate with BEING a "MAN," then why is that homosexual male not an example of a responsible "MAN" just because he has sex with men??

Well, I've known homosexual Black men who have done these things. They raised children who were and were not their own and taught their "sons" and "daughters" to value education, instilled a strong work ethic and personal responsibility and outreach to others and everyone of them grew up to be heterosexual young men and women.

Would another Black male who has no job; does not provide for his seed; does not honor his mother/father; is not concerned with the mental, emotional or physical welfare of anyone other than himself be a more "appropriate" example of "being a Man?"

I'm just sayn...I'm just sayn.

Everyone of the videos at the masculinity project has an opening graphic that features two men hugged up like women.. that
to me negates everything else they may have to say..

And, THIS, Brother, is just simply NOT TRUE.

You saw a few videos about homosexuality and immediately discounted the entire "MASCULINITY PROJECT" as having a "homosexual agenda," which, again, speaks to the perception of and reaction to homosexuality in the Black community amongst Black men.

There is also a video there about the murder of Sean Bell, which has nothing to do with homosexuality.

The "D.R.E.A.M. PROJECT" at Tennessee State University has nothing to do with homosexuality.

The "PRISON" video (which speaks on race and class in the Prison System) by students of Hampton University has nothing to do with homosexuality.

"Losing My Way" is a video about a young Black man with Bi-Polar Disorder (again, no homosexuality).

So, yet again, the perception of and reaction to homosexuality in the Black community amongst Black men is evident in your own reply.

skuderjaymes

11-27-2009, 06:08 PM

cherryblossom

11-27-2009, 06:47 PM

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2541/4138918823_a3259ec125.jpg

I didn't watch any videos about Homosexuality.. I watched the one about the
homeless called invisible men.. the one about Vietnam vets.. I watched the
one about the blues musician.. and all of them had this graphic [in] the opening sequence.. It came right between the graphic of the Black Family and the ending graphic of 50 cent..

I went back to the site and I see that not every
video has that opening, but a lot of them do.. and the topics have nothing to
do with homosexuality.

Yes, this graphic of two men hugging is in the "SEQUENCE" of graphics which plays before many of the videos.

Yes, in that "SEQUENCE" of graphics is: Pres. Obama, a Black family, a father hugging a child, 50 Cent, etc...

So, because the "SEQUENCE" doesn't play all the way out on ALL of the videos and SOME of them STOP at this graphic of the hugging men, does that make the entire "MASCULINITY PROJECT" have a "homosexual agenda?"

So, that ONE graphic makes you discount EVERYTHING else?? :10500:

THIS is what you said:

Everyone of the videos at the masculinity project has an opening graphic that features two men hugged up like women.. that to me negates everything else they may have to say..

Like it or not, homosexuality IS a part of the Black community; and this site does have videos reflecting the homosexual lives of Black men and Black women.

The site says THIS is its AIM:

MASCULINITY PROJECT
The American black male character is often the product of a popular culture image without true context. The Masculinity Project uses media to create a virtual community record of the true issues affecting black men and black community in America.

And, again, like it or not, homosexuality IS a part of "issues affecting Black men and Black community in America."

skuderjaymes

11-27-2009, 07:24 PM

[B]Like it or not, homosexuality IS a part of the Black community; and this
site does have videos reflecting the homosexual lives of Black men and Black
women.

Let me ask you this: Out of all the videos to use to introduce the
Black Masculinity project to the men here on destee.. why did you choose
the one with the homosexual themes? Why not any of the other videos?

[B]Yes, this graphic of two men hugging is in the "SEQUENCE" of graphics which plays before many of the videos.

Yes, in that "SEQUENCE" of graphics is: Pres. Obama, a Black family, a father hugging a child, 50 Cent, etc...

So, because the "SEQUENCE" doesn't play all the way out on ALL of the videos and SOME of them STOP at this graphic of the hugging men, does that make the entire "MASCULINITY PROJECT" have a "homosexual agenda?"

So, that ONE graphic makes you discount EVERYTHING else?? :10500:

Yes and Yes.

And for the record it's not just one graphic it's a graphic
set within a specific context. Let's not oversimplify. Film is a sophisticated
medium.. and the sigificance of its contents can't be weighed in simplistic
terms.. and it's about what the picture communicates within it's context

jamesfrmphilly

11-27-2009, 07:46 PM

this presents to me as a sneaky gay thing. sorry. i am not interested.

BTW : i do not have a problem with gay. i just resent being snuck up on.

jamesfrmphilly

11-27-2009, 07:57 PM

Out of all the videos to use to introduce the
Black Masculinity project to the men here on destee.. why did you choose
the one with the homosexual themes?
Like it or not, homosexuality IS a part of the Black community; and this site does have videos reflecting the homosexual lives of Black men and Black women.

And, again, like it or not, homosexuality IS a part of "issues affecting Black men and Black community in America."

that is true but what is the percentage? is it the number 1 issue that we face or the number 25?
i, for one, lead my life without worrying about it one way or the other.

cherryblossom

11-27-2009, 08:08 PM

Let me ask you this: Out of all the videos to use to introduce the
Black Masculinity project to the men here on destee.. why did you choose
the one with the homosexual themes? Why not any of the other videos?

Actually, I never found that first video on the website. It came from Youtube....But, I posted it because it was connected to the "Masculinity Project."

And then I posted another from the website which was not related to homosexuality.

Of course, I posted BOTH to generate discussion about "What Is A Man?" and "masculinity."

Yes and Yes.

And for the record it's not just one graphic it's a graphic
set within a specific context. Let's not oversimplify.

Film is a sophisticated medium.. and the sigificance of its contents can't be weighed in simplistic terms.. and it's about what the picture communicates within it's context.

Yeah.

And just like other issues which affect Black families and the Black community, when it comes to homosexuality, many of us would just rather not acknowledge it at all.

We don't want to see it, hear about it or talk about it.

It appears to me that it is YOU who is "oversimplifying," Brother.

You've admitted that graphic of the hugging men is just ONE in a SEQUENCE of graphics. Yet, you choose to concentrate on THAT one.

So, what "specific context" is the graphic of the BLACK FAMILY and the FATHER HUGGING A CHILD set in??

Then, you turn right around and say that 'the significance of film can NOT be viewed in simplistic terms.'

But, that appears to be EXACTLY what you are doing by judging/discounting
all the other videos and the mission of the "Masculinity Project" as a whole because of ONE graphic with 2 hugging men. :10500:

That ONE graphic represents only ONE part of the videos within the "Masculinity Project."

It stands to reason that if it has videos about homosexuality on it that it would also have a representation graphic included in its Intro....That same Intro also has other graphics in it as well, representing the BLACK FAMILY and a FATHER HUGGING A CHILD and PRESIDENT OBAMA (and even 50 Cent, who, in some people's eyes, also represents Black masculinity). :10500:

But, IMO, 50 Cent no more DEFINES or REPRESENTS what it is to be a Black man, any more than the 2 gay guys.

So, Let me ask YOU this.....

Why, out of all the OTHER videos on that site and out of ALL the videos I posted here, has THIS thread taken up FIVE pages, basically, about ONE video of 2 homosexual Black men??

Not one person has commented on any other video but THAT one
(except the "D.R.E.A.M. Project).

YOU also admitted to actually viewing some other videos which have no connection w/homosexuality, yet you've not commented on any of those.

jamesfrmphilly

11-27-2009, 09:35 PM

maybe a woman is out of place teaching men about masculinity?

cherryblossom

11-27-2009, 09:44 PM

so nice she said it twice.....

I most certainly did "say it twice."

It bared repeating because you and many others are missing the bigger picture because of your perception of/reaction to homosexuality.

No, I wasn't "sneaking up on you."

Yet, on this very site are threads about the "EFFIMINIZATION OF BLACK MALES." ----So, evidently, there are some who feel that Black manhood is a worthy subject.

I posted a video about homosexuality and OTHER videos about other issues in the Black community as they relate to "masculinity" and being a "Man."

But, you and the other men here saw one video about homosexuality tied to "masculinity" and "manhood" and said, "OH NO! I can't deal with that!"

So, this whole website is discounted in spite of other profoundly delving videos into other issues in the Black community.

Why don't YOU and the other men here at Destee.com submit your OWN VIDEO on "masculinity" and Black manhood??

I think it would be wonderful for you to speak from your generation and Brother Skuderjaymes could speak from his. :toast:

skuderjaymes

11-27-2009, 09:45 PM

[B]Actually, I never found that first video on
the website. It came from Youtube....But, I posted it because it was
connected to the "Masculinity Project."

I don't recall saying that you did. I asked, "of all the videos.. why this one?"
youtube has a ton of Black Masculinity Project videos. Why did you choose
this one? It's a straight forward question. Did you watch and then say to
yourself, "this would be an excellent video to kick off a discussion about
what a man is" ? Is that how it happened?

Yeah.

And just like other issues which affect Black families and the Black
community, when it comes to homosexuality, many of us would just rather
not acknowledge it at all. We don't want to see it, hear about it or talk
about it.

And why do you think that is? because the black community is backward?
or crazy? or immoral? Should I gather my sons and have a conversation
about living a lifestyle that I don't want for them? Should we include
homosexual sex in sex education curriculum? Should we include homosexual
literature in our kids curriculum? What would you suggest we do?

It appears to me that it is YOU who is "oversimplifying," Brother.
You've admitted that graphic of the hugging men is just ONE in a SEQUENCE
of graphics. Yet, you choose to concentrate on THAT one.
Have I chosen to concentrate on that one? I simply stated that it existed,
you said that it didn't, I showed you that it did... I don't consider that
concentrating. What I had to say, I said in my first post. All this here, is
me explaining my thinking to you.

So, what "specific context" is the graphic of the
BLACK FAMILY and the FATHER HUGGING A CHILD set in??'
well, they are both set in the same context: the introductory part of a film
featured in the Black Masculinity Project which is, as the name suggests,
a series of films concentrating on issues related to black masculinity in black
culture. That's the context. What they communicate is the part of the
question that you skipped.. The father hugging the child illustrates an aspect
of Masculinity.. creating, raising and loving his children.. This picture :

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2586/4139679302_3961035251_m.jpg

is not just two dudes hugging.. it's two dudes in a intimate and sexually
suggestive position.. nut to butt.. with the dude in backs chin over the
shoulder of the dude in the front.. that's not just hugging. And when
you consider the clip in sequence with the rest of the images.. it implies
that this image represents an aspect of black masculinity.. and it doesn't.
it represents a controversial behavior that, as you said, black folks don't
even want to seriously consider".. You could say that the African
American community has rejected homosexuality as a desired mode
of being. The question I'm asking you, is "Why do you think that is?"

Then, you turn right around and say that 'the significance
of film can NOT be viewed in simplistic terms.'
But, that appears to be EXACTLY what you are doing by judging/discounting
all the other videos and the mission of the "Masculinity Project" as a whole
because of ONE graphic with 2 hugging men. :10500:
well listen, context is everything .. that's my motto.. I used the term
simplistic to describe your discounting the significance and meaning of that
graphic when considered alone or in sequence with the rest.. describing it
as only ONE.. implies that meaning is some kind of numbers game.. well, to
my way of thinking, that's simplistic.. in that it sidesteps the fundamental
issue of meaning.. "what does that graphic communicate?" that's the
question.. Not: how many times it communicated it. the elements of a film
build and are part of a single whole. That graphic is part of what the film
communicated, and that makes it worth discussing.

But, IMO, 50 Cent no more DEFINES or REPRESENTS what
it is to be a Black man, any more than the 2 gay guys.

So, Let me ask YOU this.....

Why, out of all the OTHER videos on that site and out of ALL the videos I
posted here, has THIS thread taken up FIVE pages, basically, about ONE
video of 2 homosexual Black men??

Because most of us were responding to the first post, which featured, in the
BLACK MEN-BROTHERS-WARRIORS Forum, two black gay men under the
banner of black masculinity. If you would have simply entitled the thread
something like: "The Definition Of A Man".. or something like, "Homosexuals
And Masculinity" then everybody would not have felt so bamboozled. Be
honest.. you picked that video because you wanted to discuss the gay
aspect of black masculinity.. that's cool.. but just say that. It's getting
confusing.. one minute you say black folks want to ignore this topic but then
in the next breath, you complain that we have taken up 5 pages talking
about it..

Not one person has commented on any other video but THAT one
(except the "D.R.E.A.M. Project).
YOU also admitted to actually viewing some other videos which have no
connection w/homosexuality, yet you've not commented on any of those.

What are you implying? that I'm guilty of discussing the topic you offered
up for discussion? If you didn't want to talk about it, then why did you
bring it up? Since you know "the black community" so well, I'm sure you
understood ahead of time, what would happen if you posted that first
video in the Black Men Warrior section of a Black website.. What I can't
get, is why you're acting all surprised and outraged. And for the record,
I don't believe anyone else brought up the subject of the intro sequences..

jamesfrmphilly

11-27-2009, 09:56 PM

you and the other men here saw one video about homosexuality tied to "masculinity" and "manhood" and said, "OH NO! I can't deal with that!"

we have that right don't we?

cherryblossom

11-27-2009, 10:26 PM

we have that right don't we?

Oh, PUH-LEESE!

And THIS from the same man who said THIS:

i see posts harking back to the good old days.
men were men and women were women.

well, we are not going back to those days. i don't think we should.
i don't want to be a stoic who cannot show any feelings and, God forbid, cannot cry.
those old gender roles were too restrictive for me.
i think it is good that the genders have blurred and overlapped. we needed that.
as with anything, it can be taken too far and perverted but the principle of gender blending is sound.
little girls need to learn how to kick butte and little boys need to learn how to cook and sew.
it's all good.

So, when it comes to Black "masculinity" and being a "Black man," I guess, it's all good as long as they aren't homosexual.

Jahari Kavi

11-27-2009, 10:33 PM

jamesfrmphilly

11-27-2009, 11:40 PM

So, when it comes to Black "masculinity" and being a "Black man," I guess, it's all good as long as they aren't homosexual
yeah, you could say that. is there anything wrong with that view?
are you here as the advocate of homosexuality?

cherryblossom

11-28-2009, 01:15 AM

yeah, you could say that. is there anything wrong with that view?
are you here as the advocate of homosexuality?

Not at all.

I posted this topic to generate discussion about Black masculinity and being a Black man.

And, (for the 3rd time), like it or not homosexuality IS a part of our communities and families and relates to the perception of "What Is A Man."

I don't advocate homosexuality; but I have known some homosexual men that were more of a MAN than some heterosexual ones I've known.

My Bible tells me that Homosexuality is an "abomination" to God.

But, I do wonder if a homosexual man, with the exception of having sex w/other men, behaves and espouses the same principles as heterosexual men, then why is he not also a "Man?"

I didn't say a homosexual man "represents" Black manhood, just as I don't think 50 Cent represents it (and he's on a graphic as well).

Now, this website showcases a variety of facets within the Black community and Black manhood.--It's mission is to present a wide range of snapshots of the Black community as they relate to "masculinity" and being a "Man," generating dialogue on those subjects.

There are many homosexuals who grew up with 2 parents in the home; who had a father who exampled being a "Man." Yet, they still grew up to be homosexual but instilled with all the principles and ethics their fathers instilled in them.

So, as this website asked, "WHAT IS A MAN?" :10500:

Oh, and Brother SJ.....I'll be back to answer you as well.

skuderjaymes

11-28-2009, 04:00 AM

this thread just begs to ask the question of "what is homophobia?"....just because a good number of the black community (particularly black males) don't "embrace" homosexual lifestyles and culture, does "not" make them homophobic imo. Rather, it might hint towards the black community being weary towards the ideals that is pushed towards our community..........

Yes it does. But, why is that considered bad? That's the real question.
Why is it assumed that black folks are somehow down with everything?
Homophobia is a bad word for a politician trying to get elected, but it's
not a bad word for a Father or a Mother.. or for anyone that lives their
lives by principles (religious or otherwise). You can't be for something
and everything at the same time. Choices exclude other options.
Penises are meant for Vaginas.. it's a perfect fit.. and there's nothing
anyone could say to change my mind about that.. But what does that
actually mean in terms of action? Absolutely nothing. Opinions not
attached to the ability to act are harmless. If Prop 8 wasn't on the
ballot when I went to vote for Obama, I would not have even thought
about gay marriage.. I'm not gay. I have no interest in what they do..
so why is opinion so important so important to gay people?

I think it has something to do with gay folks attempting to gain the acceptance they didn't get
in their own homes, from the rest of the population.. Like they are
looking to be publicly validated in order to rationalize some private
rejection they experienced from their family or friends, etc..
That's what it feels like to me.. like someone in an argument looking
to a 3rd party to confirm their point of view.. It reminds me of that
scene in the "Raisin In The Sun" where Bobo is getting nowhere in his
explanation to Walter about Willie running off with the money. Bobo
looks at Ruth and says, "you understand Miss Ruth", like her undestanding
would somehow ease his burden and strengthen his position with Walter.

and with alllllllll of that said.. I think the question that emerges from it all is:
What is culture and how does it work?

I believe that their is a natural selection process built-in to culture
by way of the way people learn.. the selection process decides what
cultural behaviors to keep and what cultural behaviors to do away with.
and that process is preceded by a process that decides what cultural
behaviors to promote and what cultural behaviors to contend.
The promote / contend process is what we are doing right now.. it's what
we do through Art and Education and Conversation. .through every kind
of expression.. including living. it's through all those ways of being,
that we cast our individual votes on what we believe needs to be kept
or thrown away. I don't know if I'm getting this across or not.. but an
analogy is : A parent can tell a child, "the white lines of the crosswalk will
protect you from being hit by a car." And the child may believe that until
one day he or she is nearly hit by a car while walking in the crosswalk. At
that point that child will throw out what their parent told them and replace
it with his own information.. Culture, I believe, works the exact same way.
Personal Culture, Family Culture, Neighborhood Culture, Institutional Culture,
political culture, etc.. Homosexuality has been thrown out by almost every
generation of every level of every culture and sub-culture in the modern
world.. There is a reason for that. And the reasons vary, but they are all
relevant. With that said, you may understand why I wonder, "Why is there
such a concentrated focus on the African American acceptance of
Homosexuality? I wold think that larger question would answer all the smaller
questions.. Why has the world rejected it? I think that answer would
probably cover us too..

hey, I apologize for the length. I tried to keep it as direct as I could but I try
not to use to many words with compressed meanings and that leads
to long ****ed posts.. ..anyway, i don't expect you to answer all of this
.. most of those questions are rhetorical anyway.

peace.

Full Speed

11-28-2009, 08:15 AM

jamesfrmphilly

11-28-2009, 09:09 AM

I posted this topic to generate discussion about Black masculinity and being a Black man....

well, the discussion has devolved into you being on one side and all the black men on the other regarding homosexuality.

you seem to want to tell us all how we should be masculine.

i know you are smart enough to realize that is a losing proposition.
i been masculine for a long time and i need no further instruction.
wouldn't you be better off telling the women how to be feminine?

looks to me like you have yourself in an illogical position yet you are too stubborn to let it go.

cherryblossom

11-28-2009, 12:44 PM

are you out of place?
well, the discussion has devolved into you being on one side and all the black men on the other regarding homosexuality.

you seem to want to tell us all how we should be masculine.

i know you are smart enough to realize that is a losing proposition.
i been masculine for a long time and i need no further instruction.
wouldn't you be better off telling the women how to be feminine?

looks to me like you have yourself in an illogical position yet you are too stubborn to let it go.

Oh my goodness! YOU are certainly one to TALK! LOL!

Am I "out of place?!"....You mean, like YOU always up in the Sisters Forum, telling Black women what's wrong with us and what we need to do?

Do you mean like YOU usually the FIRST and often the ONLY man responding to a thread posed TO women, FOR women?

Now, yes, these are "OPEN" forums for men and women to respond to; but, typically, I've noticed that I, and most of the other Sisters here, will stay out of the Brothers forum, unless otherwise invited. ---And, rarely, have I posted in the Brothers Forum.--But, that behavior does not seem to apply to some of the men here in regards to the Sisters Forum. :10500:

Like YOU, in particular,....In almost every thread in the Sisters Forum, here comes Brother James with a joke or some advice telling Black women HOW to be "BLACK WOMEN."

So, FOR THE RECORD, Brother James, YOU ARE NOT A BLACK WOMAN. So, you can not SPEAK for a Black woman.

LIKEWISE, I AM NOT A BLACK MAN. So, I can not SPEAK for Black men.

However, I posted THIS thread in hopes to generate discussion on Black "masculinity" and "What is a Man."

I am not defending homosexuality.

I am defending the WEBSITE called the "MASCULINITY PROJECT" because, IN SPITE OF its videos on homosexuality, IMO, it is a wonderful medium showcasing multi-generational facets of Black manhood.

No, I'm not saying that homosexuality is a "facet" of Black manhood; but it does RELATE to it as it is in literal opposition to heterosexual manhood.

So, this website did not REJECT any videos on homosexuality but included them, allowing gay men and women to voice their viewpoints on "masculinity" and "Manhood."

So, no, I'm not in "an illogical position" quite the contrary.

It is an "illogical position" to "throw out the BABY with the BATH WATER" as YOU and others are doing because of a few videos about homosexuality on a website about "Black masculinity" and "Black Manhood."

None of us has to agree or approve of any homosexual views given there.

But, IMO, to discount the entire website because you're so "offended" by a homosexual GRAPHIC and some homosexual videos IS "an illogical position."

cherryblossom

11-28-2009, 02:20 PM

I don't recall saying that you did. I asked, "of all the videos.. why this one?"
youtube has a ton of Black Masculinity Project videos. Why did you choose
this one? It's a straight forward question. Did you watch and then say to
yourself, "this would be an excellent video to kick off a discussion about
what a man is" ? Is that how it happened?

I posted this thread a month ago...Now, on that day, I was searching for something else and came upon the "Masculinity Project" on Youtube....So, I picked 2 videos from Youtube (I think those first 2 are) and then the info from the website.

I picked those 2 videos because they were polar opposites of each other in relation to "masculinity" and "What Is A Man," the discussion aim of the website.---One on homosexuality and another on the "D.R.E.A.M. Project."

I didn't see a lot of videos on Youtube. So, I posted the rest from the website, covering a range of snaphots of Black manhood.

And why do you think that is? because the black community is backward?
or crazy? or immoral? Should I gather my sons and have a conversation
about living a lifestyle that I don't want for them? Should we include
homosexual sex in sex education curriculum? Should we include homosexual
literature in our kids curriculum? What would you suggest we do?

Well, frankly speaking, in many ways the present state of the Black community IS "backward and crazy and immoral." And, homosexuality is just ONE factor of it.

No, I don't "SUGGEST" you do any of those things.

In fact, very recently, there was a great controversy about some school districts including gay literature in their curricula. Parents, and rightly so, opposed the school district introducing/exposing their children to a lifestyle they opposed and didn't feel the school district had the right to over-rule the parents right in what they taught their children.

But, how did me posting this thread extrapolate into that I am "SUGGESTING" what you do with your children?? :10500:

Have I chosen to concentrate on that one? I simply stated that it existed,
you said that it didn't, I showed you that it did... I don't consider that
concentrating. What I had to say, I said in my first post. All this here, is
me explaining my thinking to you.

I wasn't "negating" that it was there/existed. The way your statement about it was worded/phrased, it implied to me that you meant that graphic was the ONLY introductory one before each video.

And by you saying THAT graphic justified you negating anything else the website had to offer said to me that you were "concentrating" on only THAT one.

well, they are both set in the same context: the introductory part of a film
featured in the Black Masculinity Project which is, as the name suggests,
a series of films concentrating on issues related to black masculinity in black
culture. That's the context. What they communicate is the part of the
question that you skipped.. The father hugging the child illustrates an aspect
of Masculinity.. creating, raising and loving his children.. This picture :

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2586/4139679302_3961035251_m.jpg

is not just two dudes hugging.. it's two dudes in a intimate and sexually
suggestive position.. nut to butt.. with the dude in backs chin over the
shoulder of the dude in the front.. that's not just hugging. And when
you consider the clip in sequence with the rest of the images.. it implies
that this image represents an aspect of black masculinity.. and it doesn't.
it represents a controversial behavior that, as you said, black folks don't
even want to seriously consider".. You could say that the African
American community has rejected homosexuality as a desired mode
of being. The question I'm asking you, is "Why do you think that is?"
And, THAT, my Brother, is the crux of the matter on that website and its format, IMO.----- It poses the question, "What Is A Man?"

So, it offers a wide range of videos which SPEAK TO Black "masculinity," traditionally and NON-traditionally.

well listen, context is everything .. that's my motto.. I used the term
simplistic to describe your discounting the significance and meaning of that
graphic when considered alone or in sequence with the rest.. describing it
as only ONE.. implies that meaning is some kind of numbers game.. well, to
my way of thinking, that's simplistic.. in that it sidesteps the fundamental
issue of meaning.. "what does that graphic communicate?" that's the
question.. Not: how many times it communicated it. the elements of a film
build and are part of a single whole. That graphic is part of what the film
communicated, and that makes it worth discussing.

Well, that's your opinion, and I have mine.

IMO, the graphic is there to represent ONE faction of viewpoints on the website, NOT REPRESENTING BLACK MANHOOD.

Because most of us were responding to the first post, which featured, in the
BLACK MEN-BROTHERS-WARRIORS Forum, two black gay men under the
banner of black masculinity. If you would have simply entitled the thread
something like: "The Definition Of A Man".. or something like, "Homosexuals
And Masculinity" then everybody would not have felt so bamboozled. Be
honest.. you picked that video because you wanted to discuss the gay aspect of black masculinity.. that's cool.. but just say that. It's getting confusing.. one minute you say black folks want to ignore this topic but then in the next breath, you complain that we have taken up 5 pages talking about it..

What are you implying? that I'm guilty of discussing the topic you offered
up for discussion? If you didn't want to talk about it, then why did you
bring it up? Since you know "the black community" so well, I'm sure you understood ahead of time, what would happen if you posted that first video in the Black Men Warrior section of a Black website.. What I can't get, is why you're acting all surprised and outraged. And for the record, I don't believe anyone else brought up the subject of the intro sequences..

No, Brother, you misunderstand my passion. I am not "surprised" and, most certainly, not "outraged."

It appears that it's YOU, Brother, who is "feeling some kinda way."---What's up with alla the "since you know the Black community so well?" :10500:

....Seems rather "PASSIVE-AGGRESSIVE" to me. :?:

But Let me be very clear here:

I am not defending homosexuality. I do not approve of it.
I have my own personal problems/issues with it in spite of having some family members and friends who are gay.

However, I picked THAT video and the "D.R.E.A.M. Project" because they are diametrically opposed to each other, as they relate to "masculinity" and "Manhood."---They both showcase what one set of heterosexual Black men feel/think about Black Manhood VERSUS another set of Black men who are homosexual.

All I'm saying is, (yet again), like it or not, homosexuality IS a part of our communities and families.--And my posts in this thread are in the mode of seeing why this website INCLUDED homosexuality on a video project about "masculinity" and "manhood."

However, you and other men here are offended by that inclusion and are discounting all the rest this website has to say/show about "masculinity" and Black "manhood."

And, IMO, there is no "homosexual agenda" on that website.

Homosexuality is very controversial; and, IMO, the website included it as the "CONTRADICTORY" lifestyle that it is as it relates to Black "masculinity" and Black "manhood."

And, I posted that video in the same manner along with another which was a different viewpoint on Black "masculinity" and Black "manhood."

And, what's with the "for the record, I don't believe anyone else brought up the subject of the intro sequences?"----This looks like even more "PASSIVE-AGGRESSION."----Is it REALLY all that important to point that out?
:10500: Did I somewhere imply that OTHERS mentioned it?...Well, if I did, I sincerely apologize to any others.

So, "for the record," was it only YOU who brought up the Intro Sequences? :10500:

jamesfrmphilly

11-28-2009, 03:51 PM

FOR THE RECORD, Brother James, YOU ARE NOT A BLACK WOMAN

:10500: but some of my best friends have been women........

cherryblossom

11-28-2009, 04:04 PM

:10500: but some of my best friends have been women........

And, very often, from your posts, you seem to think that makes YOU an "AUTHORITY" on Black women.

skuderjaymes

11-28-2009, 04:07 PM

jamesfrmphilly

11-28-2009, 04:26 PM

And, very often, from your posts, you seem to think that makes YOU an "AUTHORITY" on Black women.

actually, i know nothing about women. not a clue.
been around em all my life and i still don't know why they do what they do.
:10500:

skuderjaymes

11-28-2009, 04:27 PM

I am defending the WEBSITE called the "MASCULINITY PROJECT" because, IN SPITE OF its videos on homosexuality, IMO, it is a wonderful medium showcasing multi-generational facets of Black manhood.
No, I'm not saying that homosexuality is a "facet" of Black manhood; but it does RELATE to it as it is in literal opposition to heterosexual manhood.
So, this website did not REJECT any videos on homosexuality but included them, allowing gay men and women to voice their viewpoints on "masculinity" and "Manhood."
So, no, I'm not in "an illogical position" quite the contrary.
It is an "illogical position" to "throw out the BABY with the BATH WATER" as YOU and others are doing because of a few videos about homosexuality on a website about "Black masculinity" and "Black Manhood."
None of us has to agree or approve of any homosexual views given there.
But, IMO, to discount the entire website because you're so "offended" by a homosexual GRAPHIC and some homosexual videos IS "an illogical position."

[/B]
Modern Film is the most powerful education / suggestive medium ever created.
the combination of images, sound and sequencing creates the ability to
connect things that are not otherwise connected. And this power has to do
with crowding the senses with information to the point where the reaction
for one element can be associated with another. And all this is accomplished
through the pace and sequence of the sound and images. The opening
sequence,for example, begins with a very optomistic style of music,
combined with a very stylistic and celebratory kind of graphic that changes
in pace with the optomistic music.. first image: Barack Obama.. optomism,
accomplishment, power, success.... second image: some dude with his hand
up.. meaningless.. filler image inserted for the sake of rhythm. So far we
have collected and are holding all the optimism and shine of the music and
the Obama image when we come to the third image: A black family. A father
that towers over his family in a display of strength and responsibility,
beautiful.. and ideal that we want and we love.. that image is added to
the optomism and succees of the music and obama, and now we are holding
a mighty positive and beautiful bag that is completely full because of the time
that has elapsed from the beginning of the intro to the now.. our brains can
only decode so many symbols at a time. once we are filled up, the images
start to overflow and we lose focus.. that's the power of film.

So, it's with this full bag of positivity and optimism that we land in tempo,
nice and smooth, on this fourth image: Two Homosexual men in an intimate
and suggestive position, hugged-up like a woman and a man. what this does
is suggest an association between all those positive, optimistic and ideal
things in our bag and this homosexual ideal. Film is a skewing of reality for
the purposes of manipulating natural human reactions.. Thats the power of
film. But if you don't really understand how film does what it does, that puts
you at a serious disadvantage. It puts you in a position to be manipulated
by film. And that's not because it's magic, it because the human mind
processes experience a certain way, and it's possible to get a certain
reaction by messing with the experience.. Art is experience; and by
combining a succession of images with sound and lighting techniques, Film
becomes the closest Art form to the actual experience of living. Film theory
is basically a study of the nature of human reaction to experience.

So, I said all that to say this: That image is not just ONE image, it's a part of
a whole that attempts to manipulate a reaction from it's target
audience. All under the banner of Black Masculinity. And who is this
projects target? Young black men and women. Young. Impressionable.
The ones that have not yet learned to trust their intuition. The ones
that are searching for meaning under every rock because they have been
convinced that wisdom exists outside of their own senses.. that it's in
a book or a class.. that the source of "right" and "good" is outside of
themselves. Now, take that hunger for knowledge of self and country and
meaning and place it in front of a well designed film.. and they will
extrapolate that and associate and conceptualize until they find their
own truth.. but it's a predictable truth facilitated by the Film.
A good simple example of how human emotion can be manipulated is the
fact that we can make ourselves cry just by thinking about sad things..
we can make ourselves happy.. we can make ourselves depressed.. A film
can do the same things. Some films are about a single scene. Everything
else in the film exists just to set the context for that one scene.
The Masculinity project, in my opinion, is about associating the warmth, the
compassion, the optimism, the sympathy, etc.. with the that image in the
opening. Why that image and not the 50 cent image? Because 50 cent does
not represent a mode of being that is in conflict with Masculinity. We may
disagree with his Art but the nature of the disagreement is not in conflict
with Masculinity. The only image that is in conflict is the homosexual
shot.. A film moves at about 30 frames per second.. that's 30 pictures
for your brain to process every second.. along with sound that has to be processed..
and when it's in a theater, the size of the images and the
volume of the sound affects the way our minds react.. That's the reason
why certain films are more effective in the theater. The size of the Canvas..
of the orchestra.. of the dance troupe.. influences the impact.

I know this is super-long and I apologize, but I wanted to at least explain how I see film.

cherryblossom

11-28-2009, 04:37 PM

Well, let me say that I appreciate you considering my opinion on this. I don't think you and I are going to see eye on masculinity.. in the same way that you and I will not see eye to eye on Femininity. The difference is that I would never attempt to represent what femininity is or is not. It's completely outside the realm of my existence and experience, so what could I say?

Context is indeed everything; as Mr. philly pointed out: perhaps you are out of place. Not in discussing masculinity but in discussing it the way you have. Perhaps you should be having this conversation about
homosexuality, femininity and womanhood over in the Sister-warriors
section. And I say that, with love and respect.. deep deep love and
respect.. understand that you and I are not the same. Political equality
does not mean existential sameness. And that doesn't mean that either of
us is anything more or less than the other; it just means that there are
elements to me that do not exist the same way in you and vice versa. And
as brothers and sisters we have to trust each other to share information and
perspectives about those elements that don't exist in us. We have to listen
and learn. Not project, collect then judge.

There are so many things to learn from this conversation.. from this entire thread, but we can only see it from behind our own eyes.. from our proper places..from our own individual contextual places. Why? Because that is the place from which we have learned to see and relate to the world. To step outside of our place has the effect of distorting what we see by presenting us with angles we don't have the tools or experience to understand. So, it's from my individual context that I seek to understand the dynamics of femininity.

Keeping what I am, who I am and what I know for sure in the front
of my mind, anchors my feet to solid-ground amid the anti-gravity of the
conceptualized intellectualized world of conversation. So, I don't float above the ground speaking with authority on things that I have not the context to know for sure. ..and listen, as sharp as these words appear, I assure you that they are intended with all the softness of a gentle breeze. English was
never intended to communicate softness, so it's hard to be technically
correct without also sounding like an a**hole. Anyway.. thanks for
listening..

Peace.

I'm so glad that we've come to a point where we can "agree to disagree."

However, as for the "out of place" standpoint, I do disagree.

The only difference between THIS thread and another titled the
"THE FEMINIZATION OF BLACK AMERICAN MEN" (http://destee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40080) is that a MAN posted that one and I, a woman, posted THIS one...in this same Brothers Forum.

Likewise, several men here have posted threads in the Sisters Forum.

So, I didn't see me posting this one as "out of place," neither by SUBJECT MATTER nor behavior.

My aim in posting it was not an attack on Black men or slight to Black manhood but presenting a website with a range of videos on masculinity and manhood.

But, we are certainly in agreement on "that there are
elements to me that do not exist the same way in you and vice versa."

"So, I don't float above the ground speaking with authority on things that I have not the context to know for sure."----And neither do I.

No where in this thread did I speak, imply, or intimate any "authority" on Black masculinity or Black manhood.

As a Black woman who has personally seen Black men being mentally and physically emasculated in their daily lives, I can empathize with the plight of the Black male and his many trials and struggles, internally and externally, just striving to BE a MAN.

But, (Brother James, I'm losing count!) like it or not homosexuality IS a part of that struggle for many of our young males.

cherryblossom

11-28-2009, 04:44 PM

actually, i know nothing about women. not a clue.

been around em all my life and i still don't know why they do what they do.
:10500:

And if you would just continue to remember that, you'll be A-OKAY!

skuderjaymes

11-28-2009, 05:03 PM

However, as for the "out of place" standpoint, I do disagree.
The only difference between THIS thread and another titled the
"THE FEMINIZATION OF BLACK AMERICAN MEN" (http://destee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40080) is that a MAN posted that one and I, a woman, posted THIS one...in this same Brothers Forum.

And, that difference is all the difference in the world. A machete in the
hands of a gardener has an entirely different meaning than that same
machete in the hands of a revolutionary. Context is everything.

And, like it or not, the meaning of words and symbols is dependent on
the messenger. It's the reason why a black man saying the word ni**er has
a different effect than a white man saying ni**er.. You can see an example
of this same point in the "What does this picture say (http://destee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61685)" thread.

cherryblossom

11-28-2009, 05:32 PM

skuderjaymes

11-28-2009, 06:01 PM

Hmmm.

Well, there appears to be a flaw in your "contextual" analogies depicting "the meaning of words and symbols is dependent on the messenger."

Some people say "Day-ta" (data) and some say "D-at-a" (data).
Some people say "Roote" (route) and some say "R-OUT-e" (route).
Some say "Toe-may-toe" and some say "Toe-mah-toe."

But, interestingly, ALL are CORRECT pronunciations of those words, no matter, the "MESSENGER."

True, and if we were talking about pronunciation that would mean something,
but we're not. we're talking about meaning.

"Freeze" from a cop, is different from "Freeze" From a child. not because of
how it is pronounced, but because of who said it and what it communicates.
"Freeze" from a child might communicate a game of some sort. You would
probably react with a smile. "Freeze" from a cop, on the other hand,
communicates authority. You are not likely to think he's playing a game and
smile. Context is everything.

So, as for a White man calling you the n-word and ME posting THIS THREAD, the "CONTEXT" of the FORMER has a very literal historical insult attached to it FROM THE MESSENGER.

Well, for the record I didn't say anything about anyone calling me the n-word.
I was talking about just using the word in conversation.

However, you are outlining your PERCEPTION of the "CONTEXT" of the latter (this thread), NOT from the MESSENGER but from the you, the RECEIVER.
So, it looks like you processed this thread NOT from the context of ME, the messenger but from YOU, the RECEIVER.

How can I process information from any perspective other than my own?
How would you suppose I get inside the mind and body of the messenger?
I can only speak from my own context, which means from the body of
knowledge and experience that I have collected and authenticated.
That's what being grounded means. That's what "play your position" means.
that's what "sweep around your own front door" means..

jamesfrmphilly

11-28-2009, 06:40 PM

But, (Brother James, I'm losing count!) like it or not homosexuality IS a part of that struggle for many of our young males.

some, maybe. many, naw.

cherryblossom

11-28-2009, 06:44 PM

And, that difference is all the difference in the world. A machete in the hands of a gardener has an entirely different meaning than that same machete in the hands of a revolutionary. Context is everything.

And, like it or not, the meaning of words and symbols is dependent on the messenger. It's the reason why a black man saying the word ni**er has a different effect than a white man saying ni**er.. You can see an example of this same point in the "What does this picture say (http://destee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61685)" thread.

And just as with that picture you posted, the "CONTEXTUAL" meaning of it is NOT dependent upon the MESSENGER.

"BEAUTY is in the EYE of the BEHOLDER." So, it's "CONTEXTUAL" meaning is processed through the eyes of the RECEIVER.

True, and if we were talking about pronunciation that would mean something,
but we're not. we're talking about meaning.

Well, "pronunciation" IS a part of the difference between when a White person usually says the "n-word" and a Black person saying it. (N***ER vs N***A)

Well, for the record I didn't say anything about anyone calling me the n-word.
I was talking about just using the word in conversation.

*Oh, Lord...Here we go with "THE RECORD" again.*

Okay..So, you did NOT mention someone CALLING you the n-word, just SAYING IT.

But, my POSITION is the SAME....When a White man "SAYS" the n-word, there is a literal, historical "CONTEXTUAL" insult attached to that word, FROM THE MESSENGER.

"Freeze" from a cop, is different from "Freeze" From a child. not because of
how it is pronounced, but because of who said it and what it communicates.
"Freeze" from a child might communicate a game of some sort. You would
probably react with a smile. "Freeze" from a cop, on the other hand,
communicates authority. You are not likely to think he's playing a game and
smile. Context is everything.

Yes, the CONTEXT of THOSE scenarios ARE dependent upon the MESSENGER.

How can I process information from any perspective other than my own?
How would you suppose I get inside the mind and body of the messenger?
I can only speak from my own context, which means from the body of
knowledge and experience that I have collected and authenticated.
That's what being grounded means. That's what "play your position" means.
that's what "sweep around your own front door" means..

Halleluia!

:bingo:

EGG-ZACKLY, Brother! :toast:

And that was my whole point that YOUR earlier statement appears CONTRADICTORY.

But, you can't mix "apples and oranges," Brother.

And you can't paint everything/everybody with the same brush.

Yes, SOME things are processed through the contextual meaning from the MESSENGER.

And SOME things are processed through the contextual meaning FOR the RECEIVER.

So, don't try to imply with your analogies that ME posting THIS thread has some kind of negative CONTEXTUAL meaning from ME, the MESSENGER when you processed it from YOUR viewpoint of the RECEIVER. :10500:

You can't apply the same CONTEXTUAL framework to EVERYTHING.

You can't say:

Context is everything.

And, like it or not, the meaning of words and symbols is dependent on the messenger.

And then turn right around and say:

How can I process information from any perspective other than my own?
How would you suppose I get inside the mind and body of the messenger?
I can only speak from my own context, which means from the body of
knowledge and experience that I have collected and authenticated.

So, you can't have it BOTH ways, Brother.

You can't imply that ME posting THIS thread has some kind of negative CONTEXTUAL MEANING FROM ME, THE MESSENGER.

And then say, "How would you suppose I get inside the mind and body of the messenger? I can only speak from my own context.."

You're contradicting yourself, Brother, by trying to make your standpoint fit EVERY situation, AND IT DOESN'T.

Square pegs just won't go in round holes, Brother.

So, if it seems that I was "OUT OF PLACE" by posting this thread, then that viewpoint is processed through the CONTEXTUAL framework of YOU, the RECEIVER.

NOT from any negative CONTEXTUAL MEANING from ME, the MESSENGER.

You can't have it BOTH ways, Brother.

skuderjaymes

11-28-2009, 07:11 PM

skuderjaymes

11-28-2009, 07:31 PM

And just as with that picture you posted, the "CONTEXTUAL" meaning of it is NOT dependent upon the MESSENGER.

"BEAUTY is in the EYE of the BEHOLDER." So, it's "CONTEXTUAL" meaning is processed through the eyes of the RECEIVER.

To avoid confusion regarding my picture thread, I do need to respond to this
part.. The painting and the Officer are two entirely different contexts..
The painting is the medium and the message combined. Our reaction to that
it is based entirely on what we see because we have no other information.

If you were to translate this situation over to the example of the cop saying
"Freeeze", then you would have to remove the cop and just have the word
"freeze" come from someone unseen. That would be a proper comparison.

But once the cop shows himself, then you know what that "Freeze"
communicates. And with the painting, once you find out the painter's intent,
then you know what he was trying to communicate. Since painting is
visual and not literal like speaking, since there is no one-to-one correlation
between visual composition and language, there is more room for
interpretation on the visual side.

Of course interpretation of everything is from your own eyes, what other
eyes do you have. But, information about that messenger directly influences
perception. That's all I'm saying. Information colors perception. all
perception. Visual, physical, aural, emotional.. A mother saying I hate you,
means something completely different than a stranger saying I hate you..
The words are the same but the meaning is different because of what you
know of the words and the messenger.

Nelson Ankh

11-28-2009, 07:44 PM

Thank You, Brother skuderjaymes

cherryblossom

11-28-2009, 07:44 PM

Well, I'm not a real big fan of futility, and I don't like feeling like I'm talking to a homicide investigator whose only purpose is to attempt to poke holes in my story. I don't especially dig that.. I have thoroughly and thoughtfully represented my point of view.. Where you say you see contradiction, I say you have misunderstood my message. But I'm not one to stand by while my integrity is constantly called into question.

..that aside, I say: we're at an impasse, for you say it's one way, I say it's
another. There's nothing more I can say, without repeating myself so, I'm
going to let it go.

Peace.

Well, Brother, I don't see it that way. I thought we were having a discussion on "CONTEXTUAL MEANING."

But, if you feel that I'm "poking holes," Brother....YOU gave me the ICE-PICK. :10500:

And how did your "integrity" get involved here? :?:

Did I say something offensive to you?
Did I demean or attack your character in any way?

I disagreed with your statements and explained how and why, using your own words as the basis of my debate. :10500:

So, did you perceive any "CONTEXTUAL MEANING" of your "integrity being called into question" by anything said and "DEPENDENT" on ME, the MESSENGER? :?:

Or did you process that from your own PERSONAL, "CONTEXTUAL" framework as the RECEIVER?
:?:

Well, I guess we'll just have to "agree to disagree" from this juncture.

Peace.

cherryblossom

11-28-2009, 08:49 PM

And, that difference is all the difference in the world. A machete in the hands of a gardener has an entirely different meaning than that same machete in the hands of a revolutionary. Context is everything.

And, like it or not, the meaning of words and symbols is dependent on the messenger. It's the reason why a black man saying the word ni**er has a different effect than a white man saying ni**er.. You can see an example
of this same point in the "What does this picture say (http://destee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61685)" thread.

To avoid confusion regarding my picture thread, I do need to respond to this part.. The painting and the Officer are two entirely different contexts..

The painting is the medium and the message combined. Our reaction to that it is based entirely on what we see because we have no other information.

If you were to translate this situation over to the example of the cop saying
"Freeze", then you would have to remove the cop and just have the word
"freeze" come from someone unseen. That would be a proper comparison.

But once the cop shows himself, then you know what that "Freeze"
communicates. And with the painting, once you find out the painter's intent, then you know what he was trying to communicate. Since painting is
visual and not literal like speaking, since there is no one-to-one correlation
between visual composition and language, there is more room for
interpretation on the visual side.

Of course interpretation of everything is from your own eyes, what other eyes do you have. But, information about that messenger directly influences perception. That's all I'm saying. Information colors perception. all perception. Visual, physical, aural, emotional.. A mother saying I hate you, means something completely different than a stranger saying I hate you.. The words are the same but the meaning is different because of what you know of the words and the messenger.

Well, "FOR THE RECORD" (lol), you're the one who introduced the painting thread into this thread.

However....I AGREED with your earlier analogy that when a Cop says, "FREEZE," it is processed differently, has a different "contextual meaning," than when a CHILD says it.

But, as for a comparison between the picture and the cop, NOW, you're putting it the "context" of an UNSEEN cop in order to make your statement fit about the "messenger," IMO.----YES, the cop "showing himself" is an IMMEDIATE understanding of the "CONTEXT" of hearing the word "Freeze!"

NO, the PAINTING does NOT have any clarification because we don't know the Artist's contextual INTENT when he/she painted it. So, it's interpretation is all on the "receiver."

Now, in this thread, I am the second-hand "MESSENGER"

But, you have no sufficient, additional "information" about ME. So, you can only process any "contextual" meaning on my part for posting it from your personal framework as a Black man, the "receiver."

And the website, "The Masculinity Project" is the actual "MESSENGER."

The website has a homosexual graphic and videos on it. So, yes, you did use that "information" to process a "contextual meaning" from the "messenger."

So, all I'm saying is, SOME things are "CONTEXTUALLY" processed from the "MESSENGER."

And some things from the personal context of the "Receiver."

We are ALL made up of our experiences and exposures. So, we process things differently from that framework.

And, yes, with "additional information," we can then process the "contextual" meaning/intent from the "messenger."

But, sometimes, even having more information from the "Messenger" does not change our perception.

FOR EXAMPLE:

I am a Black woman born and raised in the South. So, my PERSONAL framework is very much affected by the social mores of that environment.

And, just as the word "Boy" has a negative, historical contextual meaning/insult from a White person to a Black man....

FOR ME, as a Black woman, so do the words "Sweetie" and "Dearie."

And I don't care WHO SAYS THEM, Black or White....I don't like it. They are NOT considered "Terms of Endearment" for me.

When White people in the South called Black women "Sweetie" and "Dearie," they were putting grown women on the level of a child, an underling, a subordinate....talking DOWN to a grown woman. (but with a smile, of course, and said SO sweetly!)

And even when Black men have said those words to me, I don't like it.

I find them SEXIST and just as insulting to call me that...I am a grown woman, and I should be addressed by my NAME.

And, if you don't know me like THAT, you shouldn't be calling me "Sweetie" and "Dearie," anyway.

So, as a Black woman in my 40s, born and raised in the South. It doesn't matter WHAT "context" the "MESSENGER" says those words to me.

As the "RECEIVER," I find them OFFENSIVE.

So, again, I just don't whole-heartedly agree with your statement about the "meaning is dependent on the messenger."

BTW, I gotta go address that very issue.....

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