Black People : Bithia; the Jewel in the Nile... [Archive] - Black People | African Americans

Chevron Dove

08-09-2009, 06:54 PM

Bithia; the Jewel in the Nile,
the Adoptive Mother of Moses

4022 BC---3882---2356--------1436-------------Roman Era--------------AD 2008
-----------------------------------1516 BC----------------------------------------------

Moses: 1516-1396 BC

Bithia or more precisely, Tabitha [Tabithia] came from a line of ethnic women of whom had ethnic names like herself. She was most likely the Great Grand-Daughter of Isis and the Grand Daughter of Hatshepsut II Merire. Like the Bible states, she was also the daughter of the pharaoh of Egypt of the 18th Dynasty, the Moses Line of kings. But by this time, the actual inherited line of men had long ended. In earlier times before Tabitha was born, an original Moses pharaoh, king Amenophis I, of whom was directly related to the founding brothers of the line had no son. His son had died before him. Therefore, another man took over the Moses line and became the next king of Egypt. Although this man was not related to the Moses line of men, he was Hamitic-typed and he was married to the sister of Amenophis I. So eventhough, technically, this was the end of the true-Moses pharaohs, the line continued onward through the connection to the women. The brother-in-law to Amenophis I then, adopted the name ‘Moses’ and thus became known as ‘Thutmoses’ [Thutmosis] and, the children of that union carried on the rule of this dynastic line. This would be the lineage of Tabitha.

Tabitha was the daughter of an ethnic royal woman, Merire, and the infamous pharaoh, Amenophis II, and he was the man that ordered ‘the baby killing edict’ against the Hebrews. Tabitha became caught up in a world in which her father had began to practice ‘the baby killing cult’ [Tophet], a practice that he caused to be brought to North Africa byway of the Asian* women he began to bring into his court from Western Asia [Iran-Persia] at that time. He was an evil black man and a forerunner of Herod-the-great, another evil black man, that would do the same thing about 1500 years later in service to the Asian women he worshiped:

“This Asiatic influence was equally apparent in religion, with the rise of the cults of Astarte, the goddess of horse-riders, and Reshef. The infiltration of Syro-Palestinian culture into Egypt had begun in the Middle Kingdom; . . .” pg 218.

“His successor, Aakheperure Amenophis II, . . . a cruelty intended to demoralize enemies, . . . His prowess has emerged both from the practice of military sports, which he considered an honourable activity, and the pursuit of various activities derived originally from western Asia.” pg 218.

“Among the prisoners of war . . . They are synonymous with the Hebrews mentioned in the Amarna correspondence; by Amenophis II’s time they seem to have become integrated into the societies to which they had emigrated, . . .” pg 219.

A History of Ancient Egypt, by Nicolas Grimal, Copyright, 1992, Blackwell Publishers, Massachusetts USA.

Tabitha was born into a world in which she became subservient to Asian women brought into Egypt and elevated higher than her women kind. According to the Bible, this king initially tried to exploit the ethnic Phut Hamitic-typed women with in his realm to kill the Hebrew babies upon birth. When a particular nurse refused to do it, he then decided to pass the edict and thus, the police force was dispatched throughout the delta region to forcibly take newborn baby malefactors from the arms of the Hebrews and kill them. On the surface, it was written to have been done as a cultic practice in dedication to a cult god. But in reality, this incredible process was done because of arrogance, envy and deep seeded hatred against all black people. Because the Hebrew ‘Grain slaves’ began to profess that the earthquakes of which began to occur was as a result to their bondage and that it was a sign that God was going to judge the Egyptians, Amenophis II passed this edict to crush their hope.

According to the Biblical Stephen in the Book of Acts, the Hebrews themselves became moved with envy, one against another, and it was also by this process that newly born baby boys were pointed out and taken away from families and killed. It would be 80 years later after this horrible ordeal that the government of Egypt would become judged for such an act. But it did come.

Tabitha felt the compassion of the Hebrews because she too, was like the Phut Hamitic nurse, black. Although her people and the Thutmosis pharaohs were not of the original line, they were still black. The root name ‘Thut’ [Tut] connects these kind of men from the northern lands of ancient Turkey [Anatolia]. Therefore, the Thutmosis pharaohs that assumed the throne of the Moses line were really, Thoths, of whom came from the powerful Hittite [white] dominated governmental system of the land of Turkey. They were Hurrians. It was a ying-yang (black-white) caste system in which the minority Hittites were the ruling class and the Hethites headed up the military system that all Hamitic-typed people fell under.

The Hurrian culture by the lifetime of Tabitha was old and there were many cultures that existed all over the Mediterranean world and beyond. The original Hurrians were actually Hamitic people from Nimrod’s Babylon of the famous Ur of the Chaldees. But as people left this land, each Hurrian culture became unique based upon the land in which it was reformed. For instance, there was an Hurrian culture [Shurian] in Assyria, a Hurrian culture in Iran [Elam], a Hurrian culture in Nubia and elsewhere. Tabitha’s line came from Northern Turkey to become apart of the system of Central Turkey (the City of Hattusas) before coming to Egypt. They were Khety-an Hurrians (Kheth-Canaanite-Hurrians) and her name remained a dominant name in that region of Turkey for thousands of years. Also, by that time of her life, the whole country of Turkey [Anatolia] was inhabited by many different kinds of black people. It would be like taking a heavy black population of city people such as in Washington D.C. and putting it down in one area of Turkey and then repeating the process all over Turkey. Ancient Turkey was a Meggido of black people! It was a metropolis filled with black people all over ancient Turkey for thousands and thousands of years, right up until the Black Genocide that began to occur in the A.D. 1500s-- THE POWER OF THE INVENTION OF THE GUN!

The Thoths [Tutmosis kings] are also connected to the land of Turkey in another way. They were the ones that brought the new idea of ‘tomb building’, a practice that was common in the land of Turkey. It was a land of many underground cities. These Thutmosis men came from a land of tunnel diggers. They came from the Northern regions near ancient Troy [the Troglodytes] and near cities with such names as ‘Bithia’ [Bithynia; New Birth], ‘Samsun’, ‘Pontus’, ‘the Dardanelles’, ‘Maramara’ and etc. and where cities continued to keep ‘black names’ for millenniums. Contrary to popular belief, the Black Sea was not called as such because the water was deep and black!

But on one fateful morning when Tabitha went down to the Nile river to wash . . . she saw a little ark sitting in the water amongst the flags. Soon Jochebed found out the good news when her little girl came back to her to tell her that her baby brother did not drown. She told her desperate mother that the royal daughter had taken up the baby. This ‘jewel in the Nile’ thus summoned the mother of the little Hebrew baby boy and gave the baby back to Jochebed under royal protection. Thus Jochebed was paid wages to nurse her own baby and was allowed to bond with her baby for a time because of this black girl, the very daughter of the pharaoh of whom ordered such a devastation in the land.

Tabitha eventually took Moses permanently and had him raised up in the Egyptian court and, when Moses grew up, he got her in all kinds of trouble! She became disgraced and the white women of the royal court put her out! But with in the next forty years that Moses was living in the Sinai Peninsula, Tabitha ended up in the line of Judah and bore children for a Hebrew man. Tabitha became ‘a Tabernacle’ [a Sabbath; Tab or Bath] for Israel. She became a resting place for the children of the living God . . . and God rewarded her:

. . . And he shall hide me in his pavilion, in the secret of his Tabernacle shall he hide me!
PSALMS 27:5.

Tophet of Carthage
"http://archaeology.suite101.com/article.cfm/tophet"
Map of Turkey
"http://www.lonelyplanet.com/maps/europe/turkey"
Bithynia [Bithia]
"http://www.allaboutturkey.com/bitinya.htm"
Pontus [Phoenician-Greeks; roots of Pontius Pilate!]
"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontus"
"http://www.agiasofia.com/pontos/pontos.html"

*the term ‘Asian’ today is not the same as it was in ancient times. The technical definition of the term ‘Asian’ means ‘ash’ [var. ‘As’] or more specifically, ‘white’ [white or Hittite].
--------------------------------------------------------------------- -
First Printed on June 6, 2008 [edited]

Keita Kenyatta

08-09-2009, 07:54 PM

Chevron Dove

08-10-2009, 10:26 AM

Keita Kenyatta

08-10-2009, 05:21 PM

Honestly, when I first came to this site, I was so surprised and elated at seeing your name. At first, I thought that you were a famous author of whom wrote text books for the Afrocentric school I once taught at. But later, I realized that you were not. However, I was still interested in some of your research. But now, you just immediately insulted my personal research and I think this sums up your position on other Black people's contribution in so far as trying to reach 'the truth' concerning racial supremacy in the past and present.

If you believe that my research concerning this article is 'Hogwash' then at least respect my contribution and also, dignify your own self and bring out something so that I can see where you are coming from.

Maybe your former teacher and I are related (just joking about being related) as I also write African-centered books and have my own publishing company as well...among other things. However....let me first address you. I'm guilty of not having any tact at times and of using words that may give the impression that I'm insulting when actually I'm not. I guess everything is a matter of perspective and if you felt that way, my apologies. Your post has several problems from a historical perspective and is laced with Biblical over-tones in a fashion structured to give credence and support to a few Biblical stories that have no historical reality at all.

Without having to go all into it, I want you to read what was taught in class this past Saturday and then go back and read the thread you posted so that you'll understand why I said what I said the way that I said it.

SATURDAYS CLASS

So what did we learn in last nights class? We first learned that there was always an intent to keep the masses of people ignorant. We learned that Abraham never existed. We learned that his sons never existed. This of course is backed up by the Bible. We learned that since they never existed that there was no one for the so called 12 tribes of Israel to be born from. We learned that the so called 12 tribes of Israel are nothing more than the zodiac, which of course is backed up by the Bible also. We learned that since there was no Issac or Ishmael to have ever existed and that the stories we are told in Islam and Christianity of Jesus coming from their seed and Muhammad coming from their seed is an outright lie.

We learned that since they never existed that there was no one to ever be in bondage for Moses to supposedly free. We learned that Moses didn't get any 10 commandments from God but instead learned them in ancient Egypt which again the Bible confirms in Act:7:22. We learned that the name Moses was not the historical name he was known by and that the disease we call leprosy was a disease of having "white skin". We learned that the Bible speaks of a people being cursed to be white forever.

We learned that the so called miracles of Moses was the result of historical "natural events" that were recorded by various people all over the globe. We learned as a result of this, that some people played on our lack of knowing history and applied these natural events to Moses as if they were miracles from God and then used it to promote themselves as a so called "Chosen People". We learned that the stories of parting the waters, of Moses rod changing into a serpent and of Moses being found floating in a basket on the water are in fact stories that existed thousands of years before the birth of Moses in ancient Kemet and other civilizations.

We learned that the story of Pharaohs troops being washed away was "actual history" that happened during the rule of Queen Hatshepsut due to volcanic eruptions. We learned that someone was devious enough to also apply that to Moses...even though he wasn't even born yet. We learned that the earth will never be destroyed by fire as the church teaches and that all teachings of this nature are basically calling God a liar because God said in the Bible that He would never destroy the world again. We learned that this lie was created because, "as long as they can keep our people focused on the after life and getting our rewards there....that we would never do anything to try and obtain them in this life, thereby giving our oppressors free rule and free reign.

We learned that the people calling themselves Jews are in fact nothing more than "white people" as confirmed by the Bible and that the false history as it relates to Moses and the false history concerning Abraham and his two sons is the foundation of the lie that they have pushed upon the world all because the world does not know the truth...which of course includes our people also.

We learned the names of a few of our African Prophets....those who lived before a so call fake Abraham, Moses or any of the rest. We learned these things and even more last night as the series entitled; The Process of Healing continues.

I thank those who were in attendance and trust to see ya this Saturday as part two of The Religious Factor continues.

Peace!!

Clyde Coger

08-10-2009, 11:13 PM

Bithia; the Jewel in the Nile,
the Adoptive Mother of Moses

4022 BC---3882---2356--------1436-------------Roman Era--------------AD 2008
-----------------------------------1516 BC----------------------------------------------

Moses: 1516-1396 BC

Bithia or more precisely, Tabitha [Tabithia] came from a line of ethnic women of whom had ethnic names like herself. She was most likely the Great Grand-Daughter of Isis and the Grand Daughter of Hatshepsut II Merire. Like the Bible states, she was also the daughter of the pharaoh of Egypt of the 18th Dynasty, the Moses Line of kings. But by this time, the actual inherited line of men had long ended. In earlier times before Tabitha was born, an original Moses pharaoh, king Amenophis I, of whom was directly related to the founding brothers of the line had no son. His son had died before him. Therefore, another man took over the Moses line and became the next king of Egypt. Although this man was not related to the Moses line of men, he was Hamitic-typed and he was married to the sister of Amenophis I. So eventhough, technically, this was the end of the true-Moses pharaohs, the line continued onward through the connection to the women. The brother-in-law to Amenophis I then, adopted the name ‘Moses’ and thus became known as ‘Thutmoses’ [Thutmosis] and, the children of that union carried on the rule of this dynastic line. This would be the lineage of Tabitha.

Tabitha was the daughter of an ethnic royal woman, Merire, and the infamous pharaoh, Amenophis II, and he was the man that ordered ‘the baby killing edict’ against the Hebrews. Tabitha became caught up in a world in which her father had began to practice ‘the baby killing cult’ [Tophet], a practice that he caused to be brought to North Africa byway of the Asian* women he began to bring into his court from Western Asia at that time. He was an evil black man and a forerunner of Herod-the-great, another evil black man, that would do the same thing about 1500 years later in service to the Asian women he worshiped:

“This Asiatic influence was equally apparent in religion, with the rise of the cults of Astarte, the goddess of horse-riders, and Reshef. The infiltration of Syro-Palestinian culture into Egypt had begun in the Middle Kingdom; . . .” pg 218.

“His successor, Aakheperure Amenophis II, . . . a cruelty intended to demoralize enemies, . . . His prowess has emerged both from the practice of military sports, which he considered an honourable activity, and the pursuit of various activities derived originally from western Asia.” pg 218.

“Among the prisoners of war . . . They are synonymous with the Hebrews mentioned in the Amarna correspondence; by Amenophis II’s time they seem to have become integrated into the societies to which they had emigrated, . . .” pg 219.

A History of Ancient Egypt, by Nicolas Grimal, Copyright, 1992, Blackwell Publishers, Massachusetts USA.

Tabitha was born into a world in which she became subservient to Asian women brought into Egypt and elevated higher than her women kind. According to the Bible, this king initially tried to exploit the ethnic Phut Hamitic-typed women with in his realm to kill the Hebrew babies upon birth. When a particular nurse refused to do it, he then decided to pass the edict and thus, the police force was dispatched throughout the delta region to forcibly take newborn baby malefactors from the arms of the Hebrews and kill them. On the surface, it was written to have been done as a cultic practice in dedication to a cult god. But in reality, this incredible process was done because of arrogance, envy and deep seeded hatred against all black people. Because the Hebrew ‘Grain slaves’ began to profess that the earthquakes of which began to occur was as a result to their bondage and that it was a sign that God was going to judge the Egyptians, Amenophis II passed this edict to crush their hope.

According to the Biblical Stephen in the Book of Acts, the Hebrews themselves became moved with envy, one against another, and it was also by this process that newly born baby boys were pointed out and taken away from families and killed. It would be 80 years later after this horrible ordeal that the government of Egypt would become judged for such an act. But it did come.

Tabitha felt the compassion of the Hebrews because she too, was like the Phut Hamitic nurse, black. Although her people and the Thutmosis pharaohs were not of the original line, they were still black. The root name ‘Thut’ [Tut] connects these kind of men from the northern lands of ancient Turkey [Anatolia]. Therefore, the Thutmosis pharaohs that assumed the throne of the Moses line were really, Thoths, of whom came from the powerful Hittite [white] dominated governmental system of the land of Turkey. They were Hurrians. It was a ying-yang (black-white) caste system in which the minority Hittites were the ruling class and the Hethites headed up the military system that all Hamitic-typed people fell under.

The Hurrian culture by the lifetime of Tabitha was old and there were many cultures that existed all over the Mediterranean world and beyond. The original Hurrians were actually Hamitic people from Nimrod’s Babylon of the famous Ur of the Chaldees. But as people left this land, each Hurrian culture became unique based upon the land in which it was reformed. For instance, there was an Hurrian culture [Shurian] in Assyria, a Hurrian culture in Iran [Elam], a Hurrian culture in Nubia and elsewhere. Tabitha’s line came from Northern Turkey to become apart of the system of Central Turkey (the City of Hattusas) before coming to Egypt. They were Khety-an Hurrians (Kheth-Canaanite-Hurrians) and her name remained a dominant name in that region of Turkey for thousands of years. Also, by that time of her life, the whole country of Turkey [Anatolia] was inhabited by many different kinds of black people. It would be like taking a heavy black population of city people such as in Washington D.C. and putting it down in one area of Turkey and then repeating the process all over Turkey. Ancient Turkey was a Meggido of black people! It was a metropolis filled with black people all over ancient Turkey for thousands and thousands of years, right up until the Black Genocide that began to occur in the A.D. 1500s-- THE POWER OF THE INVENTION OF THE GUN!

The Thoths [Tutmosis kings] are also connected to the land of Turkey in another way. They were the ones that brought the new idea of ‘tomb building’, a practice that was common in the land of Turkey. It was a land of many underground cities. These Thutmosis men came from a land of tunnel diggers. They came from the Northern regions near ancient Troy [the Troglodytes] and near cities with such names as ‘Bithia’ , ‘Samsun’, ‘Pontus’, ‘the Dardanelles’, ‘Maramara’ and etc. and where cities continued to keep ‘black names’ for millenniums. Contrary to popular belief, the Black Sea was not called as such because the water was deep and black!

But on one fateful morning when Tabitha went down to the Nile river to wash . . . she saw a little ark sitting in the water amongst the flags. Soon Jochebed found out the good news when her little girl came back to her to tell her that her baby brother did not drown. She told her desperate mother that the royal daughter had taken up the baby. This ‘jewel in the Nile’ thus summoned the mother of the little Hebrew baby boy and gave the baby back to Jochebed under royal protection. Thus Jochebed was paid wages to nurse her own baby and was allowed to bond with her baby for a time because of this black girl, the very daughter of the pharaoh of whom ordered such a devastation in the land.

Tabitha eventually took Moses permanently and had him raised up in the Egyptian court and, when Moses grew up, he got her in all kinds of trouble! She became disgraced and the white women of the royal court put her out! But with in the next forty years that Moses was living in the Sinai Peninsula, Tabitha ended up in the line of Judah and bore children for a Hebrew man. Tabitha became ‘a Tabernacle’ [a Sabbath; Tab or Bath] for Israel. She became a resting place for the children of the living God . . . and God rewarded her:

. . . And he shall hide me in his pavilion, in the secret of his Tabernacle shall he hide me!
PSALMS 27:5.

Tophet of Carthage
"http://archaeology.suite101.com/article.cfm/tophet"
Map of Turkey
"http://www.lonelyplanet.com/maps/europe/turkey"
Bithynia [Bithia]
"http://www.allaboutturkey.com/bitinya.htm"
Pontus [Phoenician-Greeks; roots of Pontius Pilate!]
"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontus"
"http://www.agiasofia.com/pontos/pontos.html"

*the term ‘Asian’ today is not the same as it was in ancient times. The technical definition of the term ‘Asian’ means ‘ash’ [var. ‘As’] or more specifically, ‘white’ [white or Hittite].
--------------------------------------------------------------------- -
First Printed on June 6, 2008 [edited]

[B][I]Chevron Dove,

Very brave of you to research this bit of history from a black perspective, and your presentation of it is admirable. I do have several questions, but they can wait for now. Also, would you go back over the links you cite at the bottom of the page and make them accessible, I think you may have done something wrong at posting...Peace In my sister friend.

Chevron Dove

08-11-2009, 06:46 AM

Maybe your former teacher and I are related (just joking about being related) as I also write African-centered books and have my own publishing company as well...among other things. However....let me first address you. I'm guilty of not having any tact at times and of using words that may give the impression that I'm insulting when actually I'm not. I guess everything is a matter of perspective and if you felt that way, my apologies. Your post has several problems from a historical perspective and is laced with Biblical over-tones in a fashion structured to give credence and support to a few Biblical stories that have no historical reality at all.

Without having to go all into it, I want you to read what was taught in class this past Saturday and then go back and read the thread you posted so that you'll understand why I said what I said the way that I said it.

SATURDAYS CLASS

So what did we learn in last nights class? We first learned that there was always an intent to keep the masses of people ignorant. We learned that Abraham never existed. We learned that his sons never existed. This of course is backed up by the Bible. We learned that since they never existed that there was no one for the so called 12 tribes of Israel to be born from. We learned that the so called 12 tribes of Israel are nothing more than the zodiac, which of course is backed up by the Bible also. We learned that since there was no Issac or Ishmael to have ever existed and that the stories we are told in Islam and Christianity of Jesus coming from their seed and Muhammad coming from their seed is an outright lie.

We learned that since they never existed that there was no one to ever be in bondage for Moses to supposedly free. We learned that Moses didn't get any 10 commandments from God but instead learned them in ancient Egypt which again the Bible confirms in Act:7:22. We learned that the name Moses was not the historical name he was known by and that the disease we call leprosy was a disease of having "white skin". We learned that the Bible speaks of a people being cursed to be white forever.

We learned that the so called miracles of Moses was the result of historical "natural events" that were recorded by various people all over the globe. We learned as a result of this, that some people played on our lack of knowing history and applied these natural events to Moses as if they were miracles from God and then used it to promote themselves as a so called "Chosen People". We learned that the stories of parting the waters, of Moses rod changing into a serpent and of Moses being found floating in a basket on the water are in fact stories that existed thousands of years before the birth of Moses in ancient Kemet and other civilizations.

We learned that the story of Pharaohs troops being washed away was "actual history" that happened during the rule of Queen Hatshepsut due to volcanic eruptions. We learned that someone was devious enough to also apply that to Moses...even though he wasn't even born yet. We learned that the earth will never be destroyed by fire as the church teaches and that all teachings of this nature are basically calling God a liar because God said in the Bible that He would never destroy the world again. We learned that this lie was created because, "as long as they can keep our people focused on the after life and getting our rewards there....that we would never do anything to try and obtain them in this life, thereby giving our oppressors free rule and free reign.

We learned that the people calling themselves Jews are in fact nothing more than "white people" as confirmed by the Bible and that the false history as it relates to Moses and the false history concerning Abraham and his two sons is the foundation of the lie that they have pushed upon the world all because the world does not know the truth...which of course includes our people also.

We learned the names of a few of our African Prophets....those who lived before a so call fake Abraham, Moses or any of the rest. We learned these things and even more last night as the series entitled; The Process of Healing continues.

I thank those who were in attendance and trust to see ya this Saturday as part two of The Religious Factor continues.

Peace!!

Where do your 'white Jews' come from?' What are your sources for this?

Based upon the Bible and secular books, the original Jews are not white. In fact, it would be a contradiction for the pharaohs of Egypt to enslave the Hebrews if they were 'white' as you say. The Egyptians hierarchy was that 'white' [Hittites] were at the top and 'Blacks' were lesser.

My research is based upon other works, not just the Bible of which I did leave links. In fact, the acutual name of the pharaohs are not listed because they enslaved humans; Blacks.
---------------------------------------
I want you to know that part of my many years of research included sitting down and being at the table with African American Muslims and men of Islam. I was invited based upon my research of which I brought to share. The particular Islamic man that invited me is also an author and, like you, he owns a bookstore. So, I am not just presenting research from a Biblical point of view but also, a wider perspective. My research has been very well recieved by many Muslims and Islamic African Americans both male and female.

Yes, I have seen some of your comments based upon the 'color' and 'validity' of Moses and the Jews and my research does contradict this, I know. But, I am basing this on sources, words in context of many written works, and a comparison and contrast and etc.

Chevron Dove

08-11-2009, 07:00 AM

Chevron Dove,

Very brave of you to research this bit of history from a black perspective, and your presentation of it is admirable. I do have several questions, but they can wait for now. Also, would you go back over the links you cite at the bottom of the page and make them accessible, I think you may have done something wrong at posting...Peace In my sister friend.

Thank you!

Yes, the author, Grimal was the source that I quoted and I will make this source accessible.

I researched and written a lot on the history of the dynasties in ancient Egypt and the reason why is because the Bible pinpoints this government as being the oppressors of the Hebrews, the very foundation of my faith in Christ. So, I have raked over the history of ancient Egypt with a so-called 'Fine-toothed comb' and it took me many years. The history that I found was shocking to me, very revealing and I suspect very thought provoking. So, I hope that I will receive questions so that I can connect and continue to learn myself.

The films that I grew up watching with Charleston Heston, as 'Moses' and Yule Brinner as 'Ramesses II' and this recent remake have caused me to stumble upon some great contradictions presented by our American system.

The 19th Dynasty 'Ramesses' versus the 18th Dynasty 'Moses' is just a start to a great contradiction. Like the very name of 'Moses', he and the 400 year experiences of the Hebrews had to have been with 'the Moses kings' and not the Ramesses! There is so much more to this...

Thank you for your input!

Chevron Dove

08-11-2009, 07:12 AM

Links to author Nicolas Grimal and Bible confirmation:

http://www.amazon.ca/History-Ancient-Egypt-Nicolas-Grimal/dp/0631174729
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predynastic_Egypt

I CHRONICLE 4:1,18.

The sons of Judah; Pharez, Hezron, and Carmi, and Hur, and Shobal.
And his wife Jehudiajah bare Jered the father of Gedor, and Heber the father of Socho, and Jekuthiel the father of Zanoah. And these are the sons of Bithiah the daughter of Pharoah, which Mered took.
[1Chron 4: 1 and 18]

Clyde Coger

08-11-2009, 03:13 PM

Clyde Coger

08-11-2009, 03:20 PM

...Link to Nicolas Grimal...

Links to author Nicolas Grimal and Bible confirmation:

http://www.amazon.ca/History-Ancient-Egypt-Nicolas-Grimal/dp/0631174729
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predynastic_Egypt

I CHRONICLE 4:1,18.

The sons of Judah; Pharez, Hezron, and Carmi, and Hur, and Shobal.
And his wife Jehudiajah bare Jered the father of Gedor, and Heber the father of Socho, and Jekuthiel the father of Zanoah. And these are the sons of Bithiah the daughter of Pharoah, which Mered took.
[1Chron 4: 1 and 18]

Chevron Dove,

Thank you for re-doing the links...In time, I will be getting back with you with a couple of questions and information concerning the Hittites and Asians...Peace In my sister friend.

Clyde Coger

08-24-2009, 02:06 PM

Thank you!

Yes, the author, Grimal was the source that I quoted and I will make this source accessible.

I researched and written a lot on the history of the dynasties in ancient Egypt and the reason why is because the Bible pinpoints this government as being the oppressors of the Hebrews, the very foundation of my faith in Christ. So, I have raked over the history of ancient Egypt with a so-called 'Fine-toothed comb' and it took me many years. The history that I found was shocking to me, very revealing and I suspect very thought provoking. So, I hope that I will receive questions so that I can connect and continue to learn myself.

The films that I grew up watching with Charleston Heston, as 'Moses' and Yule Brinner as 'Ramesses II' and this recent remake have caused me to stumble upon some great contradictions presented by our American system.

The 19th Dynasty 'Ramesses' versus the 18th Dynasty 'Moses' is just a start to a great contradiction. Like the very name of 'Moses', he and the 400 year experiences of the Hebrews had to have been with 'the Moses kings' and not the Ramesses! There is so much more to this...

Thank you for your input!

Chevron Dove,

First and again, I commend your eagerness and pursuit of our people’s lost or stolen history, it is no small task, as you well know. I have read you say when asked a certain question (that is a loaded question of which would take a lot to answer because there is much info on it). And my sweet sister friend, I couldn’t agree with you more. These issues of history and the Bible are quite comprehensive and profound, and on top of that, we must dig through tons of information, while deciphering the distortions.

For example, on the Hittites, the court is still out on pinpointing their origins. So rather than go over redundantly what you have already presented, I will move straight to the opposite argument. Starting with this quote from you and then the opposite argument:

Hittites--I realize that in the past, some people have thought of 'the Hittites' as being 'black' but this is so not true.

Wikipedia: The term "Hittites" was taken from the KJV (King James Version) translation of the Hebrew Bible, translating חתי HTY, or בני-חת BNY-HT "Children of Heth". (Heth is a son of Canaan.) The archaeologists who discovered the Anatolian Hittites in the 19th century initially identified them with these Biblical Hittites. Today the identification of the Biblical peoples with either the Hattusa-based empire or the Neo-Hittite kingdoms is a matter of dispute. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hittites

Right away, we notice that giving color to or taking away color from the Hittites will be problematic. The robust debate remains in dispute. However, I tend to support the above position on the basis that there appears to be two sets, if you will, of Hittites…the biblical Hittites from Heth, the son of Canaan, known to be black, and the Anatolian Hittites discovered by archaeologists in the 19th century.

Again, here is argument from the opposite view point, which further supports my above position:

Hittites first became known from the bible as a small group from Northern Syria living in the hills of Canaan during the era of the Patriarchs. The earliest finds related to the biblical Hittites were hieroglyphic scripts found at Aleppo and Hamath in Northern Syria. The script matched the script on a monument at Boghazkoy by an Indoeuropean "People of the Land of Hatti" whose rule was then hastily identified by Archibald Sayce as that of the biblical Hittites. Although it has since been discovered that the language & people commonly referred to as Hittite cannot actually be the same as the Biblical Hittites, as T. Bryce states the name has stuck for convenience sake (Oxford 1998).
http://www.fact-index.com/h/hi/hittites.html

Notice that T. Bryce states clearly the name, Hittite, stuck for convenience sake. Keep in mind, whites must interject themselves into a time period of their non-existence, if they are to establish a superiority mind-set. So, be careful about buying into the fact that the Hittites were white. After all, we know they had to have been black, before they became white, right?

Who is T. Bryce? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T._Bryce

A Hittitologist specializing in ancient and classical Near-eastern history. His book, The Kingdom of the Hittites, is much read among English speaking readers since the study of the Hittites has predominantly been a German-dominated field.

Finally, here is one of many scientific resources, which removes any question relating to origins of Asians, Indo-Europeans or Blasian or Afro-Asian:

The Out-of-Africa hypothesis, which suggests that local populations outside Africa were completely replaced by modern humans who originated in Africa, has been supported by extensive genetic evidence and by archaeological findings.

Genetic studies have provided evidence for an African origin of East Asian populations
http://www.physorg.com/news5474.html

So for me, here is the bottom line, regardless of culture or so-called race, all people come from the stock of God’s original melanated man/woman of color and cannot stand apart from that origin. In other words, when we finish chasing the rabbit holes of color, we find the African of Alkebu-lan is the one blood: Acts 17: 26.

Chevron Dove

08-24-2009, 06:14 PM

Wow! Your response is super! I must tell you that I agree with your research in respect to origins.

Yes. My response was short and terse with respect to 'the Hittites' and I hope that I can add more to it later. I want to try and explain alittle right now if this computer will allow me. I too am having problems as I have just seen the links.

Chevron Dove

08-24-2009, 06:27 PM

...In regards to your research about 'Heth' the descendant of Canaan, I have so much I'd like to present but I will keep it brief:

Based upon my research, the son of Canaan both 'Zidon' and 'Heth' come from 'daughters of JapHeth' [Jap-Heth]. Therefore, the descendants of Canaan that are 'Hethites' are just one civilization of Hethites. As you have said, the Anatolian Hethites are a distinct group apart from the Canaanites.

Another crucial point with regards to the Canaanite Hethites would be concerning the 'Judgment of Noah' the high priest. When he was written to come out of his tent, he pronounced that the Canaanites became 'servant of servants'. In short, this means that they lost 'land rights'. So eventhough the Children of Heth are dominant all throughout the Bible, it would be because of the descendant of 'JapHeth' [Yap-heth]. Because the legitimate sons of Noah retained their 'inheritance' with Noah, the Canaanites actually became 'the servants of the JapHethites'. But ultimately it was Shem, the high priest that was supposed to have the last 'say so' on issues of human rights...

When you say that the Hittite origins are black, I absolutely agree. But based upon the very civilizations in Anatolia and in 'the Middle East', the Canaanites and the Hethites formed 'a ying-yang' system [black-white] in which becomes the root of white supremacy.

When Abram [AbraHam] bought land for 'his dead' he dealt with a certain 'Ephron-the-Hittite' in the presence of 'the Children of Heth'.

In regards to melanin, Hittites or white people can be very dark but based upon my research, their origins are with 'the JapHethites' and based upon genetics, I believe, the very definition of 'Hittites' encompasses much more than the color of their skin. . . . Australian aborigines . . ..

I hope that I further explained my research.

Chevron Dove

08-24-2009, 06:59 PM

I entitled my response as such due to the link between the very plight of Adolph Hitler in connection with the word-name 'Hittite'.

The root word 'Hit' in the ancient word-name 'Hittite' was spread all over this world in connection with 'White Supremacy'. In addition most of the references to the word 'Hit' and most ancient terminology is usually accompanied with so many other words and other facts in order to confirm its meaning.

For example, 'the Hitza Mayans' are scripted and portrayed in contrast to the more aboriginal Mayans such as 'the Chola Mayans' and further reveals the reality of the ancient Biblical Hittites as well. Even though ancient words have been altered and varied, the root word in many contextual script bares its true origins.

Clyde Coger

08-24-2009, 10:11 PM

... Hitler the Hitite!

Wow! Your response is super! I must tell you that I agree with your research in respect to origins.

Yes. My response was short and terse with respect to 'the Hittites' and I hope that I can add more to it later. I want to try and explain alittle right now if this computer will allow me. I too am having problems as I have just seen the links.

Chevron Dove,

Thanks and I hope you get your computer working okay.

Clyde Coger

08-24-2009, 11:07 PM

... Hitler the Hittite...cont.

...In regards to your research about 'Heth' the descendant of Canaan, I have so much I'd like to present but I will keep it brief:

Based upon my research, the son of Canaan both 'Zidon' and 'Heth' come from 'daughters of JapHeth' [Jap-Heth]. Therefore, the descendants of Canaan that are 'Hethites' are just one civilization of Hethites. As you have said, the Anatolian Hethites are a distinct group apart from the Canaanites.

Another crucial point with regards to the Canaanite Hethites would be concerning the 'Judgment of Noah' the high priest. When he was written to come out of his tent, he pronounced that the Canaanites became 'servant of servants'. In short, this means that they lost 'land rights'. So eventhough the Children of Heth are dominant all throughout the Bible, it would be because of the descendant of 'JapHeth' [Yap-heth]. Because the legitimate sons of Noah retained their 'inheritance' with Noah, the Canaanites actually became 'the servants of the JapHethites'. But ultimately it was Shem, the high priest that was supposed to have the last 'say so' on issues of human rights...

When you say that the Hittite origins are black, I absolutely agree. But based upon the very civilizations in Anatolia and in 'the Middle East', the Canaanites and the Hethites formed 'a ying-yang' system in which becomes the root of white supremacy.

When Abram [AbraHam] bought land for 'his dead' he dealt with a certain 'Ephron-the-Hittite' in the presence of 'the Children of Heth'.

In regards to melanin, Hittites or white people can be very dark but based upon my research, their origins are with 'the JapHethites' and based upon genetics, I believe, the very definition of 'Hittites' encompasses much more than the color of their skin. . . . Australian aborigines . . ..

I hope that I further explained my research.

[B]Chevron,

Please share the research that the son of Canaan both 'Zidon' and 'Heth' come from 'daughters of JapHeth' [Jap-Heth].

We seem to agree that there were two sets of Hittites.

While you agree with me that the Hittites were black, what research do you have on the ying-yang relationship?

Likewise, what research do you have on Hittites being white, and at the same time, dark with melanin.

Yes, you have explained your research further Chevron, I would like to see some of your sources...Peace In my sister friend.

Clyde Coger

08-24-2009, 11:20 PM

Chevron Dove

08-25-2009, 10:31 PM

Chevron,

Please share the research that the son of Canaan both 'Zidon' and 'Heth' come from 'daughters of JapHeth' [Jap-Heth].

We seem to agree that there were two sets of Hittites.

While you agree with me that the Hittites were black, what research do you have on the ying-yang relationship?

Likewise, what research do you have on Hittites being white, and at the same time, dark with melanin.

Yes, you have explained your research further Chevron, I would like to see some of your sources...Peace In my sister friend.

Yes Bro Clyde,

Concerning my references, my filing system is not good but, I do have some references that I can offer on the Hittites and the descendants of Heth. I will be looking at some of my files and will post them when I find them. I do recall a few European authors of whom have written that the Hittites are white [Indo-European] and that they are linked to ‘the Hethites’. However, I can say straightly that one of the most sure avenues to take on the research of the relationship between the Hittites and Heth would be by searching the ancient history of Turkey [when it was known as Anatolia]. Another great and surprising way to find the origins of the Hittites and Heth would be by looking at travel books!

“While you agree with me that the Hittites were black, what research do you have on the ying-yang relationship?”

I want to clarify my research on the actual term ‘Hittite’. Based upon my research, the actual ‘Hittites were not black’, however, their origins are black as they are descended from the Hethites [JapHeth]. I have yet to find any ancient Blacks defined as being ‘a Hittite’. But if you have any info, I’m interested.

I find that the actual Biblical link between the Hittites and the children of Heth and more correspond to the secular authors’ account of the Hittites. The very word Hittite refers to the ideology of ‘white supremacy’ as the Hittites began to set themselves apart from the Hethites. A Black person of whom would be identified as ‘an Hittite’ would be like an African American identifying with ‘the Rebel flag’.

Chevron Dove

08-25-2009, 10:52 PM

Bro. Clyde,

I will also get back with you on my research concerning the ying-yang and also, Heth and Zidon., and dark skinned color...

Peace.

Clyde Coger

08-25-2009, 11:18 PM

Concerning References
Yes Bro Clyde,

Concerning my references, my filing system is not good but, I do have some references that I can offer on the Hittites and the descendants of Heth. I will be looking at some of my files and will post them when I find them. I do recall a few European authors of whom have written that the Hittites are white and that they are linked to ‘the Hethites’. However, I can say straightly that one of the most sure avenues to take on the research of the relationship between the Hittites and Heth would be by searching the ancient history of Turkey [when it was known as Anatolia]. Another great and surprising way to find the origins of the Hittites and Heth would be by looking at travel books!

“While you agree with me that the Hittites were black, what research do you have on the ying-yang relationship?”

I want to clarify my research on the actual term ‘Hittite’. Based upon my research, the actual ‘Hittites were not black’, however, their origins are black as they are descended from the Hethites [JapHeth]. I have yet to find any ancient Blacks defined as being ‘a Hittite’. But if you have any info, I’m interested.

I find that the actual Biblical link between the Hittites and the children of Heth and more correspond to the secular authors’ account of the Hittites. The very word Hittite refers to the ideology of ‘white supremacy’ as the Hittites began to set themselves apart from the Hethites. A Black person of whom would be identified as ‘an Hittite’ would be like an African American identifying with ‘the Rebel flag’.

[I]Chevron,

Take your time on finding the resources, I know how painstaking that can be; I'll be right here. We are not far apart on the true origin of the Hittites being black, it will all come together, shortly. Remember, we do agree on the two sets of Hittites... Peace In my sister friend.

Clyde Coger

08-25-2009, 11:23 PM

Ying-Yang system

Bro. Clyde,

I will also get back with you on my research concerning the ying-yang and also, Heth and Zidon., and dark skinned color...

Peace.

Chevron,

As I said before, not a problem, we have all the tme in the world.

Chevron Dove

08-27-2009, 11:27 AM

Bro Clyde,

Here’s a significant quote(s) concerning ‘the Hittites’ and their link to their ‘Heth’ origins:

“It might seem unlikely that the capital would have been part of Zippalanda’s amphictyony. Both Zippalanda and Arinna were, however, very old Hattian cult centers, white Hattusa became such an important center relatively late, and this is why in the Old Hittite period the town still bore some of the costs of the great cultic ceremonies in Zippalanda.”

“… The reader can also find more about Mt. Daha in my recent article, . . . hethitischen Religion,…More generally, I attempt to show there that the Hittites venerated not only high mountains but also unusually shaped rocks and hills, . . . ”

“(9.) . . . ‘Hittites and Hattians in Anatolia at the Beginning of the Second Millennium B.C.*,’ Journal of IndoEuropean Studies 9 (1981): 122, . . .”

*[2nd Millennium B.C. means, 1000s B.C., from the time of events such as the late Bronze Age, the Invasion of the Hyksos in Egypt, the Middle Kingdom of Egypt, the Biblical Moses, Joshua and the Trojan War era in the 1300s-1200s B.C.]

http://nclive.lib.ncsu.edu:2062/itw/infomark/227/492/61240018w7/purl=rc1_ITOF_0_A70...

I retrieved this bit of research about four (4) years ago, back in 2005. I’v done much research on ‘the Hittites’ and on the ancient history of Turkey-Anatolia [also called Asia Minor]. I do believe I have other secular sources as well that show this relationship between the Hittites and Heth and in relations to color but, I just happened upon this article this morning.

I have found that most of the word-names linked to the history of Turkey [Anatolia] and etc. have been all jumbled together! And each terminology used is extremely distinct in respect to the larger part of the history of ancient Turkey, an issue of which most American secular scholars do not care to explain. Certain strategic facts and information about the uniqueness of certain subgroups in ancient Turkey are rarely defined to its origin in one context [or book]. Bits and pieces of the facts about Turkey are dispersed from book to book. . . . to book! You will see in this whole article that both of the names “Hittite’ and ‘Heth’ are used throughout it and there are a number of variations that I will expound upon more so and at a later time. For example the term ‘Hattusa’ has been touched upon here in one aspect and more info can be found in other books and without understanding the significance about ‘the Hattusas’ in relation to ‘the Hittites’ and also ‘the presence of white’ and etc., there will be confusion. Here the author only touched upon the distinction.

The term ‘Hattusa’ goes back much farther than this author cares to disclose. The origin of the Hattusa based upon my research can be found in the very name but, the information is enormous. So, I’ll be brief at this point. There are two words connected to it; ‘Khatti’ and ‘Lusa’ [Lusatanian] and both of these names signify the presence of ‘the earlier Greeks’ [aboriginal Greeks!]. The Hittites coexisted with the early Greeks and overtime they took dominance and became identified with this name. But however, the Khatti [Hatians] and the Lusatanians are also two distinct Greek civilizations as well and they have different experiences before they became known as ‘Hattusa’. By the time that they became known as such, white supremacy became the normality. In this same research there are other major word-names that define the dominant presence of aboriginal Ham people and they are the foundation of everything!!!

Because I am ‘a Ham-aholic[!!!]’ and embrace both the history of Ham and Abra-Ham wholeheartedly, I aim for the retrieval of these origins when I study about ancient Anatolia always! The ancient Hittites built their empire on the foundation of Ham [Kemet] and the Greeks. Many of the place names reveal this and therefore it is important to recognize that the history of Anatolia is loaded with ‘BLACK HISTORY’ and can be evident in many words. Aside from the many distinct groups of aboriginal Greeks and the Hamites, there are the people of Heth [Kimmerians!!!] and etc. The Kimmerians [var. Cimmerians] are defined as being ‘black’ and also a major part of Anatolian history. In Assyrian annuls, the Cimmerians linked with the Assyrians to overthrow the Phrygians [aboriginal Greeks] in the 700s-600s B.C. and this is one of many evidences to the old ying-yang [black-white] system. I think that the history of the Hittites in relation to Heth has always been before us but, we are not accustomed to recognizing the specific terminology in order to understand the specifics. I could go on and on . . . and on! But, this is just a start.

Clyde Coger

08-27-2009, 02:03 PM

... Yes Bro., We Do Agree! Thank you!... Thank You Chevron!

Bro Clyde,

Here’s a significant quote(s) concerning ‘the Hittites’ and their link to their ‘Heth’ origins:

“It might seem unlikely that the capital would have been part of Zippalanda’s amphictyony. Both Zippalanda and Arinna were, however, very old Hattian cult centers, white Hattusa became such an important center relatively late, and this is why in the Old Hittite period the town still bore some of the costs of the great cultic ceremonies in Zippalanda.”

“… The reader can also find more about Mt. Daha in my recent article, . . . hethitischen Religion,…More generally, I attempt to show there that the Hittites venerated not only high mountains but also unusually shaped rocks and hills, . . . ”

“(9.) . . . ‘Hittites and Hattians in Anatolia at the Beginning of the Second Millennium B.C.*,’ Journal of IndoEuropean Studies 9 (1981): 122, . . .”

*[2nd Millennium B.C. means, 1000s B.C., from the time of events such as the late Bronze Age, the Invasion of the Hyksos in Egypt, the Middle Kingdom of Egypt, the Biblical Moses, Joshua and the Trojan War era in the 1300s-1200s B.C.]

http://nclive.lib.ncsu.edu:2062/itw/infomark/227/492/61240018w7/purl=rc1_ITOF_0_A70...

I retrieved this bit of research about four (4) years ago, back in 2005. I’v done much research on ‘the Hittites’ and on the ancient history of Turkey-Anatolia [also called Asia Minor]. I do believe I have other secular sources as well that show this relationship between the Hittites and Heth and in relations to color but, I just happened upon this article this morning.

I have found that most of the word-names linked to the history of Turkey [Anatolia] and etc. have been all jumbled together! And each terminology used is extremely distinct in respect to the larger part of the history of ancient Turkey, an issue of which most American secular scholars do not care to explain. Certain strategic facts and information about the uniqueness of certain subgroups in ancient Turkey are rarely defined to its origin in one context [or book]. Bits and pieces of the facts about Turkey are dispersed from book to book. . . . to book! You will see in this whole article that both of the names “Hittite’ and ‘Heth’ are used throughout it and there are a number of variations that I will expound upon more so and at a later time. For example the term ‘Hattusa’ has been touched upon here in one aspect and more info can be found in other books and without understanding the significance about ‘the Hattusas’ in relation to ‘the Hittites’ and also ‘the presence of white’ and etc., there will be confusion. Here the author only touched upon the distinction.

The term ‘Hattusa’ goes back much farther than this author cares to disclose. The origin of the Hattusa based upon my research can be found in the very name but, the information is enormous. So, I’ll be brief at this point. There are two words connected to it; ‘Khatti’ and ‘Lusa’ [Lusatanian] and both of these names signify the presence of ‘the earlier Greeks’ [aboriginal Greeks!]. The Hittites coexisted with the early Greeks and overtime they took dominance and became identified with this name. But however, the Khatti [Hatians] and the Lusatanians are also two distinct Greek civilizations as well and they have different experiences before they became known as ‘Hattusa’. By the time that they became known as such, white supremacy became the normality. In this same research there are other major word-names that define the dominant presence of aboriginal Ham people and they are the foundation of everything!!!

Because I am ‘a Ham-aholic[!!!]’ and embrace both the history of Ham and Abra-Ham wholeheartedly, I aim for the retrieval of these origins when I study about ancient Anatolia always! The ancient Hittites built their empire on the foundation of Ham [Kemet] and the Greeks. Many of the place names reveal this and therefore it is important to recognize that the history of Anatolia is loaded with ‘BLACK HISTORY’ and can be evident in many words. Aside from the many distinct groups of aboriginal Greeks and the Hamites, there are the people of Heth [Kimmerians!!!] and etc. The Kimmerians [var. Cimmerians] are defined as being ‘black’ and also a major part of Anatolian history. In Assyrian annuls, the Cimmerians linked with the Assyrians to overthrow the Phrygians [aboriginal Greeks] in the 700s-600s B.C. and this is one of many evidences to the old ying-yang [black-white] system. I think that the history of the Hittites in relation to Heth has always been before us but, we are not accustomed to recognizing the specific terminology in order to understand the specifics. I could go on and on . . . and on! But, this is just a start.

Chevron Dove,

The plot thickens! What we are stumbling upon, my sweet sister friend is possibly the point at which color became mutated. The basis for this view lies in some of your above statements, such as below:

I have found that most of the word-names linked to the history of Turkey [Anatolia] and etc. have been all jumbled together!

And each terminology used is extremely distinct in respect to the larger part of the history of ancient Turkey, an issue of which most American secular scholars do not care to explain.

Certain strategic facts and information about the uniqueness of certain subgroups in ancient Turkey are rarely defined to its origin in one context [or book]. Bits and pieces of the facts about Turkey are dispersed from book to book. . . . to book!

You will see in this whole article that both of the names “Hittite’ and ‘Heth’ are used throughout it and there are a number of variations that I will expound upon more so and at a later time.

By the time that they became known as such, white supremacy became the normality.

Carefully review the above and re-consider the opposing argument I have offered and it's sources. You will find that we have the task of separating historical and bibilical distortion, as provided by so-called scholars, but with motives. At this point, I am asking you to lets focus on the Heth/Hittite connection before we go any further...as latter rain teachers.

Finally, the link you provided doesn't work or cannot be found. Also, I will begin to assist you in examining the resource, if you agree not to inundate this matter any further with other isues. I am confident that much can be learned, uncovering color mutation or cross-over...Peace In Sister.

Chevron Dove

08-28-2009, 08:02 AM

Bro Clyde,

In your opposing view, I believe you are referring to 'MUTATION' in regards to Hittites/Heth. I certainly would like to respond based upon this vewpoint:

I really am not sure about the origin of 'white people' other than from the Biblical source. The reason why I rely upon the Bible has to do with 'dated material'.

The Bible source begins with Moses, a man who wrote. And, the Pentatuch was written at the time of the EXODUS, according to the Bible timeline, it would be 1436-5 B.C. The written works of Moses goes far back in time to the life of Adam, 4022 B.C. Between that time and the EXODUS, the presence of WHITE was evident. I'm aware that script was well developed long before Moses and the Egyptian government relied upon very ancient script. So, in regards to 'white people', I only draw from dated material.

In respect to 'the Hittites', the word does not seem to be used until around the 2000s B.C. but, the presence of 'white people' was already on the earth thousands of years prior. So in regards to 'MUTATION' could you offer some more info.

I'm not sure I'm following you. Are you opposing the origin of 'the Hittites' or, the origin of 'white people'?

Thank you.

Clyde Coger

08-28-2009, 01:13 PM

... Mutation?... Yes

Bro Clyde,

In your opposing view, I believe you are referring to 'MUTATION' in regards to Hittites/Heth. I certainly would like to respond based upon this vewpoint:

I really am not sure about the origin of 'white people' other than from the Biblical source. The reason why I rely upon the Bible has to do with 'dated material'.

The Bible source begins with Moses, a man who wrote. And, the Pentatuch was written at the time of the EXODUS, according to the Bible timeline, it would be 1436-5 B.C. The written works of Moses goes far back in time to the life of Adam, 4022 B.C. Between that time and the EXODUS, the presence of WHITE was evident. I'm aware that script was well developed long before Moses and the Egyptian government relied upon very ancient script. So, in regards to 'white people', I only draw from dated material.

In respect to 'the Hittites', the word does not seem to be used until around the 2000s B.C. but, the presence of 'white people' was already on the earth thousands of years prior. So in regards to 'MUTATION' could you offer some more info.

I'm not sure I'm following you. Are you opposing the origin of 'the Hittites' or, the origin of 'white people'?

Thank you.

Chevron Dove...I understand,

Here is the link again for your quick and easy access and careful review:

Genetic studies have provided evidence for an African origin of East Asian populations
http://www.physorg.com/news5474.html

There is more on this that I will be sharing, hang with me, its not meant to be confusing but looms as the so-called missing link...the bigger picture. After all, you are not alone when it comes to answering the question on the origin of whites. It is the question not found in research, but is assumed as the result of evolution, etc...

In regards to your questions, yes, I am referring to both, the mutation in regards to Hittites/Heth and the origin of whites. In fact, the Heth/Hittite connection could be the strand of mutation, as I have said before, it could be.

Now this is interesting: In respect to 'the Hittites', the word does not seem to be used until around the 2000s B.C. but, the presence of 'white people' was already on the earth thousands of years prior. The presence of white people already on earth thousands of years before, what are the sources and evidence for such a statement, lets break that down.

Do you see where I'm going with this?

We cannot say on the one hand that we are not sure about the origins of whites outside of the bible, then on the other hand say that whites existed thousands of years already on the earth before 2,000 B.C.

To do so is to give them(whites) a time and place in history that doesn't exist, unless you have resources to back up the assertion of already existing(says who?).

Again my sweet sister friend, please do not misunderstand my tone, if it seems to berate; that certainly is not the spirit and intent with which I speak. These are just hard sayings and mysteries that we are unfolding and grappling with that others are attempting to hide or play as though they don't understand...Peace In, for real

Chevron Dove

08-28-2009, 03:38 PM

I absolutely do not dispell the idea of 'MUTATION'.

In regards to 'the white presence' prior to the 2000s B.C., I refer to secular scholars and also Biblical script.

The term, 'ASIATICS' is one of a number of words used to define the presence of 'white people' prior to the 2000s B.C. and also correlates to Bible terminology used to define idols worshiped and brought from the east.

In regards to anthropology and archeology, in the 3000s B.C., on the Bull Palette, around the time of Amen-the-Unifier, it correlates to presence of white as well.

In archeology, the idols of 'Nofret and Rahotep' also correlate to the Bible timeline when it was written that 'the daughters of Cain were 'fair'. Although Rahotep has obvious Kemeti traits [his hair], he certainly was much lighter than his father, Seneferu, the founder of the 4th Dynasty.

The Biblical grandson of JapHeth named 'ASKENAZ' [Nazi] correlates to the time when 'the Hittites' were known. As in the movement of Adolf Hitler, his life is one of several in which links 'white supremacy' to both words, 'Hittite' and 'Naziism'. The word 'NAZI' goes way back to the 3000s B.C. according to modern historians and the symbol of it has been written to be found in ancient civilizations in the Americas, Scandinavia, Japan and etc.

I forgot to address, my link. I tried to copy it from a hard copy that I had printed out in 2005. It was copywritten 2001, I believe. I will retreive it myself and post it again.

Thank for for assuring me but, I already appreciate you enough to not be offended by your input.

Thank you again.

Clyde Coger

08-28-2009, 05:04 PM

... On Origins & Mutation...Askenazi...... Great point of reference, the Askenazi

I absolutely do not dispell the idea of 'MUTATION'.

In regards to 'the white presence' prior to the 2000s B.C., I refer to secular scholars and also Biblical script.

The term, 'ASIATICS' is one of a number of words used to define the presence of 'white people' prior to the 2000s B.C. and also correlates to Bible terminology used to define idols worshiped and brought from the east.

In regards to anthropology and archeology, in the 3000s B.C., on the Bull Palette, around the time of Amen-the-Unifier, it correlates to presence of white as well.

In archeology, the idols of 'Nofret and Rahotep' also correlate to the Bible timeline when it was written that 'the daughters of Cain were 'fair'. Although Rahotep has obvious Kemeti traits [his hair], he certainly was much lighter than his father, Seneferu, the founder of the 4th Dynasty.

The Biblical grandson of JapHeth named 'ASKENAZ' [Nazi] correlates to the time when 'the Hittites' were known. As in the movement of Adolf Hitler, his life is one of several in which links 'white supremacy' to both words, 'Hittite' and 'Naziism'. The word 'NAZI' goes way back to the 3000s B.C. according to modern historians and the symbol of it has been written to be found in ancient civilizations in the Americas, Scandinavia, Japan and etc.

I forgot to address, my link. I tried to copy it from a hard copy that I had printed out in 2005. It was copywritten 2001, I believe. I will retreive it myself and post it again.

Thank for for assuring me but, I already appreciate you enough to not be offended by your input.

Thank you again.

Chevron,

Thanks for addressing the links failure, and as mentioned, I will begin to add to our in-depth study by helping unfold the sources you may be having a problem with.

Precisely, it is the 'ASIATICS' (Asians) and the rest of the words used to define the presence of 'white people' prior to the 2000s B.C that we should concern ourselves with as the focus, while keeping in mind the mutation process, agreed?

For example and as you say, The Biblical grandson of JapHeth named 'ASKENAZ' [Nazi] correlates to the time when 'the Hittites' were known. Can you begin to see the mystery or what has been hidden, unfold?

We know that the original Hittites, which is to say, the biblical Hittites are sons of Heth through Canaan, and of course, back to Ham....one of your favorites:).

Also, did you review the link I resubmitted on Asians?(I ask because of no comments made)

In regards to Nofret and Rahotep consider,

Rahotep is painted a reddish-brown color, while Nofret is shown a creamy white. This color difference between husbands and wives is called 'canonical' by Egyptologists because it show repeatedly in wall decorations and other statuary throughout Egypt. No one knows the reason. (By using the word 'canonical' scholars give dignity to something they do not understand.) The painted colors were stylized according to artistic standards; the paints do not reflect their actual colors.
http://www.egyptorigins.org/rahotepandnofret.htm

On the Bull Palette, whiteness is not concluded:
http://www.reshafim.org.il/ad/egypt/bull_palette/index.html

As far as thousands of years of whites already existing before lets say 2000 B.C., is an argument that brings into examination the exact reason for the significant question, what is the origin of whites? What is the point of origin of whites?

Thanks for clearing up for me...Mutation?...I was not sure whether or not you were questioning mutation.

Chevron Dove

08-30-2009, 01:39 PM

Bro Clyde,

I'm out of town right now, and will respond fully later. Thank you for your response. Yes, I re-iterate that I am interested in the idea of 'mutation'!

No. I don't think I recall your post on 'Asiatics' right off.

In regards to Nophret and Rahotep, they are just one of many depictions of 'lighter' and 'white' in the 3000s BC up to the 2000s BC. And also, as an African American woman, I key in on the explanations of 'paint' in regards to the numerous 'light skinned' women with 'straight hair' in ancient Egyptian depictions. No. I don't believe, at all that it is paint.

As you have mentioned with regards to 'the Bull Palette', the term 'white' was not used but, color is not the only association with people of 'Indo-European' traits. It is crucial to see the SCIENCE AND GENETICS linked to white people in regards to their tendency to have 'straight hair' in addition to a lighter skin. Amen-the-Unifier is depicted holding a man with 'straight hair'.

The ancient Egyptians were obsessed with women of the east and therefore, the 1960s explanation of 'paint' for the reason of the women being cream colored and the men being 'red' is a complete lie.

The black skinned depictions of men and women in both Egypt and Minoa correlates to the time period when the black kings dominated and before they began to take lighter skinned wives. The varying shades of darkness reflect past problems with a color caste system that still is present today.

Clyde Coger

08-30-2009, 11:54 PM

... Shades of darkness

Bro Clyde,

I'm out of town right now, and will respond fully later. Thank you for your response. Yes, I re-iterate that I am interested in the idea of 'mutation'!

No. I don't think I recall your post on 'Asiatics' right off.

In regards to Nophret and Rahotep, they are just one of many depictions of 'lighter' and 'white' in the 3000s BC up to the 2000s BC. And also, as an African American woman, I key in on the explanations of 'paint' in regards to the numerous 'light skinned' women with 'straight hair' in ancient Egyptian depictions. No. I don't believe, at all that it is paint.

As you have mentioned with regards to 'the Bull Palette', the term 'white' was not used but, color is not the only association with people of 'Indo-European' traits. It is crucial to see the SCIENCE AND GENETICS linked to white people in regards to their tendency to have 'straight hair' in addition to a lighter skin. Amen-the-Unifier is depicted holding a man with 'straight hair'.

The ancient Egyptians were obsessed with women of the east and therefore, the 1960s explanation of 'paint' for the reason of the women being cream colored and the men being 'red' is a complete lie.

The black skinned depictions of men and women in both Egypt and Minoa correlates to the time period when the black kings dominated and before they began to take lighter skinned wives. The varying shades of darkness reflect past problems with a color caste system that still is present today.

Chevron,

Yes, please review the Asian link again; it underpins the mutation argument. Also, I will look for more sources outside of Nophret and Rahotep. Concerning Amen-the-Unifer is the below Palette what you make reference to in terms of pullling straight hair, if not please provide:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6b/NarmerPallette-Back.jpg

Chevron Dove

08-31-2009, 08:00 AM

Chevron,

Yes, please review the Asian link again; it underpins the mutation argument. Also, I will look for more sources outside of Nophret and Rahotep. Concerning Amen-the-Unifer is the below Palette what you make reference to in terms of pullling straight hair, if not please provide:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6b/NarmerPallette-Back.jpg

Yes!

That's the very one!

On the back of it, there is also specifics that correlate to other historic issues of that time period as well...the ying yang symbol of which I plan to share on when I return back in town.

The very reason that sparked Amen-the-Unifier to organize and advance to North Egypt has to do with 'color'! He put an end to the dominance of the Asiatics in North Egypt and unified both Upper and Lower Egypt. Even his other important name titles reveals that there was an intense problem with 'white supremacy'! He was also called 'the Scorpion King' and 'the Bull king'. And the Black Bull has always been a symbol that stems from Amen [Menes]. More importantly, Amen was himself 'an eastern man'! However, he was not defind as 'Asiatic'. The aboriginal eastern people were called other names such as 'eastern' or 'Oriental' and etc.

Clyde Coger

08-31-2009, 10:52 AM

Yes!

That's the very one!

On the back of it, there is also specifics that correlate to other historic issues of that time period as well...the ying yang symbol of which I plan to share on when I return back in town.

The very reason that sparked Amen-the-Unifier to organize and advance to North Egypt has to do with 'color'! He put an end to the dominance of the Asiatics in North Egypt and unified both Upper and Lower Egypt. Even his other important name titles reveals that there was an intense problem with 'white supremacy'! He was also called 'the Scorpion King' and 'the Bull king'. And the Black Bull has always been a symbol that stems from Amen [Menes]. More importantly, Amen was himself 'an eastern man'! However, he was not defind as 'Asiatic'. The aboriginal eastern people were called other names such as 'eastern' or 'Oriental' and etc.

Chevron,

Good, we can also call him Narmer as well as Amen-the-Unifier, as long as we are on the same page. Color may have had some cause, but I'm not so sure we can call them white, lets continue to probe for the point of origin for so-called whites.

Chevron Dove

09-03-2009, 11:12 AM

Bro Cyde,
In response to my link not working:

I tried to retrieve the actual article that I had referred to in regards to ‘the Hittites’ and I too could not access it. So I looked up the actual title, author and article and found the link. The article was published in The Journal of American Oriental Society (JAOS) and copy written in 2000. It was on page 445 and the June/July volume. The author and name of the article is MACIEJ POPKO, Zippalanda and Ankuwa Once More. Here are the links:

[The Journal of the American Oriental Society, July-Sept 2000 v120 i3 p445
American Oriental Society, 2000c
MACIEJ POPKO, Zippalanda and Ankuwa Once More]

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_go2081/is_3_120/ai_n28810361/?tag=content;col1
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_go2081/is_3_120/ai_n28810361/
http://www.ttk.org.tr/data/aos120-3.htm

Chevron Dove

09-03-2009, 10:08 PM

Chevron,

Good, we can also call him Narmer as well as Amen-the-Unifier, as long as we are on the same page. Color may have had some cause, but I'm not so sure we can call them white, lets continue to probe for the point of origin for so-called whites.

Bro Clyde,
I see you know about Amen-the-Unifier considering your mention of his name, Narmer. I didn’t list this name, Narmer but, I believe it might be in reference to yet another name-title, “Baleful Catfish”. However, in reference to his association with ‘the color Black’, “the Scorpion King” and “the Bull King”, I listed these names. I am so happy that you have acknowledge my research in regards to what you said about ‘color having some cause’ in the very conflict that led to a war in ancient Egypt and the fact that Narmer overthrew the Northern government and unified Egypt.
In regards to “the color white” versus “the Asiatics” that Narmer overthrew, I can understand your doubts about “the color white” based upon the scarcity of available records. As I have said earlier, I already have something else to share about the presence of ‘white’ in the 3000s B.C. but, I just have not had time to finish the second part yet. Now though, when I address this subject, I try to point out these questions to African Americans about this part of history;

(1) Just when do you believe that white people migrated to Africa?
(2) What color are the people who dominate the Egyptian government today? Are they predominantly black [Nubian]?
(3) When do you believe that black people lost control of Egypt?
(4) If Egypt was once dominated by black people then, how did they lose control of it to lighter skinned people?
(5) And, how did white people conquer black people during a time when there was no gun power?

I don’t believe that ‘white supremacy’ can exist without Black support and this is the main issue that I believe is constantly ignored. Even if the Asiatics were “white”, “fair skinned” or “lighter skinned” and “straight haired”, these are significant issues in regards to what led to “white supremacy”. So if you ever come to believe that the Asiatics were indeed, “white” then, I hope that you remember this post.

Clyde Coger

09-04-2009, 10:13 AM

... Links... Great!

Bro Cyde,
In response to my link not working:

I tried to retrieve the actual article that I had referred to in regards to ‘the Hittites’ and I too could not access it. So I looked up the actual title, author and article and found the link. The article was published in The Journal of American Oriental Society (JAOS) and copy written in 2000. It was on page 445 and the June/July volume. The author and name of the article is MACIEJ POPKO, Zippalanda and Ankuwa Once More. Here are the links:

[The Journal of the American Oriental Society, July-Sept 2000 v120 i3 p445
American Oriental Society, 2000c
MACIEJ POPKO, Zippalanda and Ankuwa Once More]

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_go2081/is_3_120/ai_n28810361/?tag=content;col1
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_go2081/is_3_120/ai_n28810361/
http://www.ttk.org.tr/data/aos120-3.htm

Chevron,

Thank you sister, with Labor Day coming up, lets take a break:). We have plenty of time, and lets take our time and develop this theory, enjoy being out of town, k

Clyde Coger

09-04-2009, 10:31 AM

... Baleful Catfish......mutation must enter at some point

Bro Clyde,
I see you know about Amen-the-Unifier considering your mention of his name, Narmer. I didn’t list this name, Narmer but, I believe it might be in reference to yet another name-title, “Baleful Catfish”. However, in reference to his association with ‘the color Black’, “the Scorpion King” and “the Bull King”, I listed these names. I am so happy that you have acknowledge my research in regards to what you said about ‘color having some cause’ in the very conflict that led to a war in ancient Egypt and the fact that Narmer overthrew the Northern government and unified Egypt.
In regards to “the color white” versus “the Asiatics” that Narmer overthrew, I can understand your doubts about “the color white” based upon the scarcity of available records. As I have said earlier, I already have something else to share about the presence of ‘white’ in the 3000s B.C. but, I just have not had time to finish the second part yet. Now though, when I address this subject, I try to point out these questions to African Americans about this part of history;

(1) Just when do you believe that white people migrated to Africa?
(2) What color are the people who dominate the Egyptian government today? Are they predominantly black [Nubian]?
(3) When do you believe that black people lost control of Egypt?
(4) If Egypt was once dominated by black people then, how did they lose control of it to lighter skinned people?
(5) And, how did white people conquer black people during a time when there was no gun power?

I don’t believe that ‘white supremacy’ can exist without Black support and this is the main issue that I believe is constantly ignored. Even if the Asiatics were “white”, “fair skinned” or “lighter skinned” and “straight haired”, these are significant issues in regards to what led to “white supremacy”. So if you ever come to believe that the Asiatics were indeed, “white” then, I hope that you remember this post.

Chevron,

Sister, I hear you completely and respect you and your work ethics, for real, don't ever worry about that. Again, we are latter rain teachers.

Chevron Dove

09-04-2009, 05:25 PM

Chevron,

Thank you sister, with Labor Day coming up, lets take a break:). We have plenty of time, and lets take our time and develop this theory, enjoy being out of town, k

Thank you Bro. Clyde,

I really appreciate your input. I'm back in town and exhausted! I have to recooperate!

I hope you enjoy the weekend!

Clyde Coger

09-05-2009, 10:14 AM

Thank you Bro. Clyde,

I really appreciate your input. I'm back in town and exhausted! I have to recooperate!

I hope you enjoy the weekend!

Chevron Dove,

You are quite welcome my sister friend, and this will be a week-end I will never forget:)...take care.

Clyde Coger

09-13-2009, 12:19 AM

Chevron Dove,

Break is over:), the links work fine and I have begun to read: Zippalanda and Ankuwa Once More

Clyde Coger

10-03-2009, 02:11 AM

... Links

Bro Cyde,
In response to my link not working:

I tried to retrieve the actual article that I had referred to in regards to ‘the Hittites’ and I too could not access it. So I looked up the actual title, author and article and found the link. The article was published in The Journal of American Oriental Society (JAOS) and copy written in 2000. It was on page 445 and the June/July volume. The author and name of the article is MACIEJ POPKO, Zippalanda and Ankuwa Once More. Here are the links:

[The Journal of the American Oriental Society, July-Sept 2000 v120 i3 p445
American Oriental Society, 2000c
MACIEJ POPKO, Zippalanda and Ankuwa Once More]

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_go2081/is_3_120/ai_n28810361/?tag=content;col1
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_go2081/is_3_120/ai_n28810361/
http://www.ttk.org.tr/data/aos120-3.htm

Chevron Dove,

Painstakingly, I have read all six (6) pages of the link provided, titled; Zippalanda and Ankuwa Once More. It appears to be a scholarly territorial dispute between Maciej Popko and R. L. Gorny concerning geography, and nothing more. In other words, I find no indications of color references, just issues of mis-identified cities, as such. Here is a basic and clear excerpt, which leads to my understanding of the above:

R. L. Gorny has published a review article (JAOS 117 [1997]: 549--57) of my book Zippalanda: Em Kultzentrum im hethitischen Kleinasien (1994), in which he rejects my identification of Zippalanda with Alaca Hoyuk and of nearby Kalehisar/Karahisar with Mt. Tahaya/Daha (not Dahha, as throughout Gorny's article). Gorny also defends his idea that Ankuwa is to be equated to Alisar, and Zippalanda with Kusakli Hoyuk in Yozgat province.

Moreover, there was nothing in the link’s resource, which helps our debate of whites appearing as earlier as 2000 B.C. In fact, there aren’t any references alluding to the race or color of Hittites. If my assessment is incorrect, I await clarification from you.

Also Chevron, please give me your assessment on the Asian link I offered several posts ago...(see posts 27 & 29).

Chevron Dove

10-03-2009, 08:59 AM

Chevron Dove,

Painstakingly, I have read all six (6) pages of the link provided, titled; Zippalanda and Ankuwa Once More. It appears to be a scholarly territorial dispute between Maciej Popko and R. L. Gorny concerning geography, and nothing more. In other words, I find no indications of color references, just issues of mis-identified cities, as such. Here is a basic and clear excerpt, which leads to my understanding of the above:

R. L. Gorny has published a review article (JAOS 117 [1997]: 549--57) of my book Zippalanda: Em Kultzentrum im hethitischen Kleinasien (1994), in which he rejects my identification of Zippalanda with Alaca Hoyuk and of nearby Kalehisar/Karahisar with Mt. Tahaya/Daha (not Dahha, as throughout Gorny's article). Gorny also defends his idea that Ankuwa is to be equated to Alisar, and Zippalanda with Kusakli Hoyuk in Yozgat province.

Moreover, there was nothing in the link’s resource, which helps our debate of whites appearing as earlier as 2000 B.C. In fact, there aren’t any references alluding to the race or color of Hittites. If my assessment is incorrect, I await clarification from you.

Also Chevron, please give me your assessment on the Asian link I offered several posts ago...(see posts 27 & 29).

Bro Clyde,

just dropping by a little this morning. If you can pull up your links on 'Asian' I'd appreciate it. if not, I'll try to find it later on perhaps today.

as far as whites appearing prior to 2000 B.C.;

concerning the very word; 'Hittite', this was not the word prior to that time. The term, 'Asiatic' was the term used prior to 2000 BC, just one though. The other term would be 'FAIR'. Remember that I mentioned the Bible reference to 'the Daughters of Cain being fair' [the daughters of men versus the sons of God].

Now, I hope that I can pull up references to 'Asian' for you. I do believe there are a number of quotes used in Britian script in which they offer the very phonetice spelling for the word 'Asian' as 'ashian' and 'ashland'.

Again, I want to repeat the actual idols presented prior to 2000 B.C., in fact, the dates would be around the 2500s B.C. of the wife of Rahotep; Nofret.

I also have a post ready to post concering much more but, I would like to build up to it by sharing other info first. But I will add a little about what I recently mentioned of 'the ying-yang government'.

3-colors

ying-yang -- black-white
ying-yang -- red-gold [yellow]
ying-yang -- red-white

all of these ying-yang symbols represent the ancient 'two-system government' that originated in the 3000s B.C. and became fully defined as 'the universal government'. Each of these dual color themes correlate to 'a color caste system that existed in the 3000s B.C. and in ancient Egypt. The terms 'NAQADA', 'Amratian', 'Gerzean' ... presented in modern history of which you can look up go offer good info but, these European authors are careful not to reveal the full meaning. Nonetheless, these civilizations that set up in ancient Egypt became based upon the very presence of WHITE PEOPLE from the eastern world of the early Cainites.

The term Gerzean means 'foreigner' and later became phonetically changed to 'Kerzean', 'Germa', 'Karma' and have distinct meanings but, they stem for the early Gerzean cultures that came into ancient Egypt and overlaped the earlier Amratian people in the 3500s B.C..

There is so much more research to this. The first ying-yang was black-white because the earliest people were black. Then later, the red-yellow theme arose and thousands of years later, it became the very major theme of the Roman Empire [Canaanites]. Then later in ancient Egypt, the red-white theme arose, I think, after the death of the Great An [Chanoch; the son of Cain]. I can provide links that speak on the RED CROWN AND THE WHITE CROWN and, in the southern parts of Egypt, it was the Red Crown at first in this region. Later, it became the land of the white crown and the delta region, north egypt became the red crown. This red-white theme became the symbol for 'WHITE GOMER' and this brings me to the later HITTITES.

The link I provided has references to GEOGRAPHY as you have stated and this is the most vital part of defining man's origins. It's all about land! Also, most of the modern names of the authors even in the Bibliography include the name 'heth' or 'Hit' [var. hitz...] and, I hope that it might bridge a connection to the ancient Hittites of Central Turkey.

Much of my research deals with etymology [word origins] and lexocology.

Now, to offer a little info on the origins of the word, 'Hittite'. Back in the 3000s B.C., when the term Asiatic was common, the other vital term that always was attached to it was the very name of CAIN. Mis-education is the problem here. In the Black Church, I was taught that Cain was a 'tiller of the ground' but, the actual meaning is much deeper. CAIN was an Idol worshiper. So, the gift he brought to the Most High was probably not what we have been taught, crop, but it was deeper from the ground. The very name of CAIN means 'METAL SMITH'.

Remember the Bible! The descendants of Cain were masters in all types of metal works! Cain tilled the ground for metal and he made stone idols. His later generations made metal works. More than likely, he brought 'an idol' as a gift. Imagine that! The Creator made man out of the earth and gave him the breath of life and, man brings him a stone idol that cannot breathe!

Anyway, the actual name 'Hittite' came from the descendants of Cain, 'Kheth' [var. Khety, Hetepheres]. Like the Cainites, the descendants of JapHeth became 'METAL SMITHS' and this is the link. But in the 3000s BC, the term HITTITE was simply not used.

The major color theme even this very day for any civilizations attached to their identity as 'HITTITE' being 'white' is RED-WHITE. For example, the very conflict that erupted in the days of Arab struggles after the death of Muhammad in the AD 600s was a white movement that began in North Africa and the fight over Muhammad's relative versus other factions. The Shiite [var. Shia] color theme is RED-WHITE. The word 'SHIITE' is the very link! This is the major struggle between the SHIITE versus the SUNNI Muslims today; their origins.

I think I already mentioned 'the Hitza Mayans'

There is much more to this...

I got to go...

Clyde Coger

10-03-2009, 07:44 PM

Bro Clyde,

just dropping by a little this morning. If you can pull up your links on 'Asian' I'd appreciate it. if not, I'll try to find it later on perhaps today.

as far as whites appearing prior to 2000 B.C.;

concerning the very word; 'Hittite', this was not the word prior to that time. The term, 'Asiatic' was the term used prior to 2000 BC, just one though. The other term would be 'FAIR'. Remember that I mentioned the Bible reference to 'the Daughters of Cain being fair' [the daughters of men versus the sons of God].

Now, I hope that I can pull up references to 'Asian' for you. I do believe there are a number of quotes used in Britian script in which they offer the very phonetice spelling for the word 'Asian' as 'ashian' and 'ashland'.

Again, I want to repeat the actual idols presented prior to 2000 B.C., in fact, the dates would be around the 2500s B.C. of the wife of Rahotep; Nofret.

I also have a post ready to post concering much more but, I would like to build up to it by sharing other info first. But I will add a little about what I recently mentioned of 'the ying-yang government'.

3-colors

ying-yang -- black-white
ying-yang -- red-gold [yellow]
ying-yang -- red-white

all of these ying-yang symbols represent the ancient 'two-system government' that originated in the 3000s B.C. and became fully defined as 'the universal government'. Each of these dual color themes correlate to 'a color caste system that existed in the 3000s B.C. and in ancient Egypt. The terms 'NAQADA', 'Amratian', 'Gerzean' ... presented in modern history of which you can look up go offer good info but, these European authors are careful not to reveal the full meaning. Nonetheless, these civilizations that set up in ancient Egypt became based upon the very presence of WHITE PEOPLE from the eastern world of the early Cainites.

The term Gerzean means 'foreigner' and later became phonetically changed to 'Kerzean', 'Germa', 'Karma' and have distinct meanings but, they stem for the early Gerzean cultures that came into ancient Egypt and overlaped the earlier Amratian people in the 3500s B.C..

There is so much more research to this. The first ying-yang was black-white because the earliest people were black. Then later, the red-yellow theme arose and thousands of years later, it became the very major theme of the Roman Empire [Canaanites]. Then later in ancient Egypt, the red-white theme arose, I think, after the death of the Great An [Chanoch; the son of Cain]. I can provide links that speak on the RED CROWN AND THE WHITE CROWN and, in the southern parts of Egypt, it was the Red Crown at first in this region. Later, it became the land of the white crown and the delta region, north egypt became the red crown. This red-white theme became the symbol for 'WHITE GOMER' and this brings me to the later HITTITES.

The link I provided has references to GEOGRAPHY as you have stated and this is the most vital part of defining man's origins. It's all about land! Also, most of the modern names of the authors even in the Bibliography include the name 'heth' or 'Hit' [var. hitz...] and, I hope that it might bridge a connection to the ancient Hittites of Central Turkey.

Much of my research deals with etymology [word origins] and lexocology.

Now, to offer a little info on the origins of the word, 'Hittite'. Back in the 3000s B.C., when the term Asiatic was common, the other vital term that always was attached to it was the very name of CAIN. Mis-education is the problem here. In the Black Church, I was taught that Cain was a 'tiller of the ground' but, the actual meaning is much deeper. CAIN was an Idol worshiper. So, the gift he brought to the Most High was probably not what we have been taught, crop, but it was deeper from the ground. The very name of CAIN means 'METAL SMITH'.

Remember the Bible! The descendants of Cain were masters in all types of metal works! Cain tilled the ground for metal and he made stone idols. His later generations made metal works. More than likely, he brought 'an idol' as a gift. Imagine that! The Creator made man out of the earth and gave him the breath of life and, man brings him a stone idol that cannot breathe!

Anyway, the actual name 'Hittite' came from the descendants of Cain, 'Kheth' [var. Khety, Hetepheres]. Like the Cainites, the descendants of JapHeth became 'METAL SMITHS' and this is the link. But in the 3000s BC, the term HITTITE was simply not used.

The major color theme even this very day for any civilizations attached to their identity as 'HITTITE' being 'white' is RED-WHITE. For example, the very conflict that erupted in the days of Arab struggles after the death of Muhammad in the AD 600s was a white movement that began in North Africa and the fight over Muhammad's relative versus other factions. The Shiite [var. Shia] color theme is RED-WHITE. The word 'SHIITE' is the very link! This is the major struggle between the SHIITE versus the SUNNI Muslims today; their origins.

I think I already mentioned 'the Hitza Mayans'

There is much more to this...

I got to go...

Chevron Dove,

Remembering the Bible is a very good place to start. We know that Ham was black and his son Canaan and his son Heth. We know that Heth is the eponymous ancestor of the Hittites, which is to say proper, Hatti or Hattians, and since we know this, we cannot become confused by white scholars attempting to create a confluence of non-Indo-Europeans with Indo-Europeans by way of etymology or lexicology; consider these sources:

Adopting the name Hatti from the non-Indoeuropeans who had inhabited south-central Anatolia in the third millennium, the Hittites appear as immigrants from the northeast ca. 2000.

O.R. Gurney, The Hittites, 2nd ed. (Baltimore: 1961; H. A. Hoffner, “The Hittites and Hurrians,” pp. 197-228 in Dl J. Wiseman, ed., Peoples of Old Testament Times (New York: 1973).

Critically, non-Indo-Europeans antecede Indo-Europeans in the midst of some sort of mutation process; hence, whites cannot be the end result of that process. Here is information purporting a breakdown of the term, non-Indo-Europeans: http://www.wordgumbo.com/aa/index.htm

Notice, the Afro-Asiatic languages (non-Indoeuropean) breakdown into Ancient Egyptian, Hebrew and Maltese, while the Indo-European languages are Albanian, Baltic, Latvian, Lithuanian, Celtic, etc…

Yet another source with cautions us from making the serious mistake of mixing basis of fact:

The Hittite kingdom, or at least its core region, was apparently called Hatti in the reconstructed Hittite language. The Hittites should be distinguished from the "Hattians", an earlier people who inhabited the same region until the beginning of the 2nd millennium BC and spoke a non-Indo-European language — conventionally called Hattic.
http://www.arthistoryclub.com/art_history/Hittites

Relating to Rahotep and Nofret, my post #27 was clear: The painted colors were stylized according to artistic standards; the paints do not reflect their actual colors.
http://www.egyptorigins.org/rahotepandnofret.htm

On the name Cain, my understanding lines up with mainstream scholarship indicating the meaning to be Spear, in Hebrew: http://www.abarim-publications.com/Meaning/Cain.html

On the name Japheth, it is important to note that seven sons are ascribed at which point Tubal continues in the non-Indoeuropean indigenous status:

Of the above, TubalSee also Tabal. Tubals (Tabals, Tibarenoi in Greek) and Meshechs (Meshekhs/Mosokhs, Moschoi in Greek) were ancient, non-Indo-European and non-Semitic, indigenous tribes of Asia Minor of the 3rd- 1st millennias BC. They were Proto-Iberian tribes. The moders ( TabalSee also Tubal. Tabals (also Tobal Tubal Jabal and Tibarenoi were an indigenous tribe of Asia Minor, who inhabited Great Cappadocia, now part of Turkey. Some scholars associate them with the Meshechs (Meshekhs/Mosokhs, Moschoi in Greek). According to thes, Tibarenoi in Greek) and MeshechMeshechs (Meshekhs/Mosokhs, Mushku in Akkadian, Moschoi in Greek) were an ancient, non-Indo-European and non-Semitic, indigenous tribe of Asia Minor of the 3rd- 1st millennias BC. They were among the first people to introduce iron smelting there at the ens (Meshekhs/Mosokhs, Moschoi in Greek) represent ancient, non-Indo-European and non-Semitic, possibly Proto-Iberian tribes of Asia Minor of the 3rd- 1st millennias BC.
http://www.economicexpert.com/a/Japhet.htm

What becomes obvious Chevron, with the term Hittite, is why the so-called scholars are continuing to confuse us by interchanging the term Hittite with Hatti, or the Land of the Hatti in Anatolia. No serious researcher can deny the overt intention to mis-lead:

Although it is now known that these Indo-Europeans called their language Nesite (after the city of Nesa), it is still, confusingly, called Hittite.
http://history-world.org/hittitesrise.htm

At this point, I must by-pass dialoguing on the ‘ying-yang government’ issue, pending your review of the Asian link I submit and consideration of the above. Again, for your convenience below is the Asian Link:

Genetic studies have provided evidence for an African origin of East Asian populations
http://www.physorg.com/news5474.html

Chevron Dove

10-03-2009, 09:25 PM

Chevron Dove,

Remembering the Bible is a very good place to start. We know that Ham was black and his son Canaan and his son Heth. We know that Heth is the eponymous ancestor of the Hittites, which is to say proper, Hatti or Hattians, and since we know this, we cannot become confused by white scholars attempting to create a confluence of non-Indo-Europeans with Indo-Europeans by way of etymology or lexicology; consider these sources:

Adopting the name Hatti from the non-Indoeuropeans who had inhabited south-central Anatolia in the third millennium, the Hittites appear as immigrants from the northeast ca. 2000.

O.R. Gurney, The Hittites, 2nd ed. (Baltimore: 1961; H. A. Hoffner, “The Hittites and Hurrians,” pp. 197-228 in Dl J. Wiseman, ed., Peoples of Old Testament Times (New York: 1973).

Critically, non-Indo-Europeans antecede Indo-Europeans in the midst of some sort of mutation process; hence, whites cannot be the end result of that process. Here is information purporting a breakdown of the term, non-Indo-Europeans: http://www.wordgumbo.com/aa/index.htm

Notice, the Afro-Asiatic languages (non-Indoeuropean) breakdown into Ancient Egyptian, Hebrew and Maltese, while the Indo-European languages are Albanian, Baltic, Latvian, Lithuanian, Celtic, etc…

Yet another source with cautions us from making the serious mistake of mixing basis of fact:

The Hittite kingdom, or at least its core region, was apparently called Hatti in the reconstructed Hittite language. The Hittites should be distinguished from the "Hattians", an earlier people who inhabited the same region until the beginning of the 2nd millennium BC and spoke a non-Indo-European language — conventionally called Hattic.
http://www.arthistoryclub.com/art_history/Hittites

Relating to Rahotep and Nofret, my post #27 was clear: The painted colors were stylized according to artistic standards; the paints do not reflect their actual colors.
http://www.egyptorigins.org/rahotepandnofret.htm

On the name Cain, my understanding lines up with mainstream scholar indicating the meaning to be Spear, in Hebrew: http://www.abarim-publications.com/Meaning/Cain.html

On the name Japheth, it is important to note that seven sons are ascribed at which point Tubal continues in the non-Indoeuropean indigenous status:

Of the above, TubalSee also Tabal. Tubals (Tabals, Tibarenoi in Greek) and Meshechs (Meshekhs/Mosokhs, Moschoi in Greek) were ancient, non-Indo-European and non-Semitic, indigenous tribes of Asia Minor of the 3rd- 1st millennias BC. They were Proto-Iberian tribes. The moders ( TabalSee also Tubal. Tabals (also Tobal Tubal Jabal and Tibarenoi were an indigenous tribe of Asia Minor, who inhabited Great Cappadocia, now part of Turkey. Some scholars associate them with the Meshechs (Meshekhs/Mosokhs, Moschoi in Greek). According to thes, Tibarenoi in Greek) and MeshechMeshechs (Meshekhs/Mosokhs, Mushku in Akkadian, Moschoi in Greek) were an ancient, non-Indo-European and non-Semitic, indigenous tribe of Asia Minor of the 3rd- 1st millennias BC. They were among the first people to introduce iron smelting there at the ens (Meshekhs/Mosokhs, Moschoi in Greek) represent ancient, non-Indo-European and non-Semitic, possibly Proto-Iberian tribes of Asia Minor of the 3rd- 1st millennias BC. http://www.economicexpert.com/a/Japhet.htm

What becomes obvious Chevron, with the term Hittite, is why the so-called scholars are continuing to confuse us by interchanging the term Hittite with Hatti, or the Land of the Hatti in Anatolia. No serious researcher can deny the overt intention to mis-lead:

Although it is now known that these Indo-Europeans called their language Nesite (after the city of Nesa), it is still, confusingly, called Hittite.
http://history-world.org/hittitesrise.htm

At this point, I must by-pass dialoguing on the ‘ying-yang government’ issue, pending your review of the Asian link I submit and consideration of the above. Again, for your convenience below is the Asian Link:

Genetic studies have provided evidence for an African origin of East Asian populations
http://www.physorg.com/news5474.html

Bro Clyde,

You've written a lot.

What is your take on the Biblical scriptures regarding 'the daughters of Cain', 'Fair' [fair skinned]? Based upon the Bible the Great World Flood puts a date on their presence as being before the 2300s at best?

Regarding your take on my research of words, are you saying that Cain and his descendants are not connected to the skill of METAL WORKING?

Regarding the ancient Egyptian paintings . . . all of the paintings show that the men are always darker than the women! Are you saying that they are all of painting defect!? You know the ancient Frescoes have the very same theme? The men are darker [reddish] than the women during the Mycenaean age. Prior to this, the Minoans are shown [though rarely] as being black.

Regarding the words 'Hittite' and 'Hatti', I too have done much looking into the word 'Hatti' [var. Khatti, Hattusa] and most scholars say that yes, the Hittites came in after them and dominated. But they say that the Hatti people were a mixed civilization of Greeks from Mycenae. They are described too, as being 'Indo-European' and originally from the east.

Regarding the link on Asians and the presence of blacks in the east [east Asia] the dates given are like 20,000. My research is geared towards a comparison with the Bible of which only goes back to Adam and Eve. But, I do believe that the ancient far east was dominated by blacks. However, the word 'Asia' still does not apply to 'black people' based on ancient text. They were called other names such as 'Oriental', 'eastern' and more.

The word 'Nesite' I do agree. In books on Assyria, they were called the longer term; 'KANE****E'.

Clyde Coger

10-04-2009, 09:41 AM

Bro Clyde,

You've written a lot.

What is your take on the Biblical scriptures regarding 'the daughters of Cain', 'Fair' [fair skinned]? Based upon the Bible the Great World Flood puts a date on their presence as being before the 2300s at best?

Regarding your take on my research of words, are you saying that Cain and his descendants are not connected to the skill of METAL WORKING?

Regarding the ancient Egyptian paintings . . . all of the paintings show that the men are always darker than the women! Are you saying that they are all of painting defect!? You know the ancient Frescoes have the very same theme? The men are darker [reddish] than the women during the Mycenaean age. Prior to this, the Minoans are shown [though rarely] as being black.

Regarding the words 'Hittite' and 'Hatti', I too have done much looking into the word 'Hatti' [var. Khatti, Hattusa] and most scholars say that yes, the Hittites came in after them and dominated. But they say that the Hatti people were a mixed civilization of Greeks from Mycenae. They are described too, as being 'Indo-European' and originally from the east.

Regarding the link on Asians and the presence of blacks in the east [east Asia] the dates given are like 20,000. My research is geared towards a comparison with the Bible of which only goes back to Adam and Eve. But, I do believe that the ancient far east was dominated by blacks. However, the word 'Asia' still does not apply to 'black people' based on ancient text. They were called other names such as 'Oriental', 'eastern' and more.

The word 'Nesite' I do agree. In books on Assyria, they were called the longer term; 'KANE****E'.

Chevron Dove,

Yes, I have written a lot Chevron and for that reason please give it a fair read, especially in view of your quick ins and outs.

My take on the daughters of men, not daughters of Cain, being fair or fair skinned lines up with the Hebrew definition of the word towb: http://www.biblestudytools.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?number=02896&version=kjv

The word fair in Hebrew, tobe, simply means, good, etc…There is no color connotation involved. At the top far right of the source, please click Genesis under KJV verse count and review chapter and verse, 6:2.

Are you saying that Cain doesn’t mean Spear?
Are you saying that we can depend upon the Egyptian paintings as proof of color?

Please provide sources in support of the following statement:
But they say that the Hatti people were a mixed civilization of Greeks from Mycenae. They are described too, as being 'Indo-European' and originally from the east.
And afterwards, re-consider my sources and information relating to non-Indo-Europeans, which simply means non-white, or perhaps a stage of Mutation. Can we both be right?

Yes Chevron, I too believe in the young earth concept of the bible (thousands of years), and definitely not the old earth or evolutionary process of millions of years; however, you have said this: the word 'Asia' still does not apply to 'black people' based on ancient text. Do you have some resource that Asia doesn’t apply to ‘black people,’ per say? If so, please provide the ancient text source, and re-consider my sources on Afro-Asia languages, afterwards.

Chevron, at what point does the Mutation process begin, in terms of human life? For this seems to be the bigger question, not proving that whites exist, but moreover, identifying genetically, the process by which they came into existence. If you go back over our discussion, you will find the fine point of Genome to be what I thought we were digging out, the cross-over, if you will, from black to white.

Chevron Dove

10-04-2009, 05:12 PM

Chevron Dove,

Yes, I have written a lot Chevron and for that reason please give it a fair read, especially in view of your quick ins and outs.

My take on the daughters of men, not daughters of Cain, being fair or fair skinned lines up with the Hebrew definition of the word towb: http://www.biblestudytools.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?number=02896&version=kjv

The word fair in Hebrew, tobe, simply means, good, etc…There is no color connotation involved. At the top far right of the source, please click Genesis under KJV verse count and review chapter and verse, 6:2.

Are you saying that Cain doesn’t mean Spear?
Are you saying that we can depend upon the Egyptian paintings as proof of color?

Please provide sources in support of the following statement:
But they say that the Hatti people were a mixed civilization of Greeks from Mycenae. They are described too, as being 'Indo-European' and originally from the east.
And afterwards, re-consider my sources and information relating to non-Indo-Europeans, which simply means non-white, or perhaps a stage of Mutation. Can we both be right?

Yes Chevron, I too believe in the young earth concept of the bible (thousands of years), and definitely not the old earth or evolutionary process of millions of years; however, you have said this: the word 'Asia' still does not apply to 'black people' based on ancient text. Do you have some resource that Asia doesn’t apply to ‘black people,’ per say? If so, please provide the ancient text source, and re-consider my sources on Afro-Asia languages, afterwards.

Chevron, at what point does the Mutation process begin, in terms of human life? For this seems to be the bigger question, not proving that whites exist, but moreover, identifying genetically, the process by which they came into existence. If you go back over our discussion, you will find the fine point of Genome to be what I thought we were digging out, the cross-over, if you will, from black to white.

Gen.6
[2] That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

Bro Clyde,

The King James Version uses the word 'fair'. If in your sense it means 'good' then, where is the sin that the Bible alluded in Genesis chapter 6? What is wrong with taking 'good' daughters? What was so different about the daughters of God that the daughters of men were 'good' and they were not in the eyes of the Sons of God? This was the very chapter that explained the reasons for God's decision to send the great flood.

No, I do not solely depend upon Egyptian, Minoan and other ancient paintings but, this is what they present. They present dark men with white women with straight hair.

Chevron Dove

10-04-2009, 05:29 PM

Chevron, I too believe in the young earth concept of the bible (thousands of years), and definitely not the old earth or evolutionary process of millions of years; however, you have said this: the word 'Asia' still does not apply to 'black people' based on ancient text. Do you have some resource that Asia doesn’t apply to ‘black people,’ per say? If so, please provide the ancient text source, and re-consider my sources on Afro-Asia languages, afterwards.

Chevron, at what point does the Mutation process begin, in terms of human life? For this seems to be the bigger question, not proving that whites exist, but moreover, identifying genetically, the process by which they came into existence. If you go back over our discussion, you will find the fine point of Genome to be what I thought we were digging out, the cross-over, if you will, from black to white.

Bro Clyde,

I apologize if I pop in and out. I'm trying. In regards to the word 'Asia' in reference to 'white', yes, I will provide some references. In quick statement though, the Japanese people do not refer to themselves as 'Asians' but 'Nissonese' and 'Nipponese' [SEE Webster].

As far as mutation, I sure have something to share and will get back to you.

Thank You.

Will get back to the pm messages too, at a later time. I don't think I have time to look today.

Clyde Coger

10-04-2009, 06:48 PM

Gen.6
[2] That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

Bro Clyde,

The King James Version uses the word 'fair'. If in your sense it means 'good' then, where is the sin that the Bible alluded in Genesis chapter 6? What is wrong with taking 'good' daughters? What was so different about the daughters of God that the daughters of men were 'good' and they were not in the eyes of the Sons of God? This was the very chapter that explained the reasons for God's decision to send the great flood.

No, I do not solely depend upon Egyptian, Minoan and other ancient paintings but, this is what they present. They present dark men with white women with straight hair.

Chevron,

First, correction Chevron, this is not in my sense, in any way, but is in the truest sense of the transliteration of the Hebrew meaning of the word fair (towb, tobe), which was furnished.

This brings us to one of the most misunderstand accounts in of the Bible, the difference in the sons of God and the daughters of men. The sons of God, beginning with Seth and ending with Noah, for sake of brevity, while it was not necessarily the mating between the two sets, it had everything to do with exactly what scripture says in verse 5:

And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

It was the perpetual nature of the fall that brought on the deluge, not the mixing of the sons, if you will, with the fair daughters of men, as you allude.

On the paintings and what they present, the question would be why they present it. A reliable source, such as what I placed on the table, causes me to back away from establishing color connotations through paintings.

Clyde Coger

10-04-2009, 06:57 PM

Clyde Coger

10-05-2009, 09:21 PM

Chevron,

Here is a link to a discussion thread on Hittie: Biblical Black Godess of the Ancient World, at your leisure check it out and try to overlook the obvious personal attacks; this is very sensitive subject matter:

http://destee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58470&highlight=egypt

This matter of Hittites or Hattians is very sensitive because whites claim total biblical patriarchy by excluding blacks, and some blacks allow this false claim in order to label the bible as the white mans book.

What interests me about this research Chevron, is that somewhere in between, the mutation process occurring in Africans, may very well have manifested within this group of ancient people of color.

Chevron Dove

10-06-2009, 12:04 PM

Dear Bro. Clyde,

I'be been gone. But, I'm getting ready to check out the links that you left me.

Of course now, I still believe that the reference to 'women' in Genesis chapter six has something to do with 'sin and rebellion'. And I do accept your response to 'the sons of God' versus the 'daughters of men'.

I further say though, as an African woman of whom identifies with the slave ship era, in which my kind was selected has something to do the same war that was fought in 3150 B.C. by Amen-the-Unifier versus the ASIATICS.

And the very color of 'WHITE' was present in the 3000s B.C.

The Bible does speak of Cain and his wife bearing a son named 'Enoch' [Chanoch] and Adam bearing a son from Eve of whose name was Seth. From 4000s B.C. until the war with Amen-the-unifier, it was about 1000 years. And we know today, how COLOR can be expressed since the early SLAVE SHIP ERA due to the racial inter-mixing with White Slave masters.

In regards to the many depictions of dark men with 'white women with straight hair' this would be the confirmation of IDOL WORSHIP that was an obsession for thousands of years.

Again, as a woman of African descent, it will be difficult to convince me that this kind of idolization of 'white women' thousands of years ago did not occur due to the turning point of the Slave Ship Era and the enslavement of my kind.

Peace Bro. CLyde

P.S., I will be on and off for awhile to get some of those LINKS on ASIATICS and to address, the other issues you request.

Thank you.

Chevron Dove

10-06-2009, 12:35 PM

Clyde Coger

10-07-2009, 02:47 PM

Clyde Coger

10-07-2009, 03:07 PM

I'm Back Bro Clyde,

and I checked out the 'in-house' link that you left for me about the Hittites.

Most of what I get from it is pretty much what we have been discussing, I think!? Much of the conversations going on is amongst members who confess their non-belief in Jesus and the Bible so, I really don't know what to say from that perspective.

I saw terms such as 'Minoans', 'the Mycenaeans', 'Heth (the second son of Canaan)', and the correlations made to the Hittites.

I think you and I already agree that the Hittites come from Heth!?

But here is my comments based upon 'the Bible in comparison with other DATED historical records':

History must be placed on a timeline. Based on the Biblical timeline, the first man named 'Heth' after the flood was the son of Noah named 'JapHeth'. The second son of Canaan, Heth, came sometime after JapHeth was born, in fact, at least 100 years after JapHeth.

The descendants of Canaan, although from Ham, did not develop a culture in the land of Ham, INITIALLY but, in the EAST [West Asia] and therefore, they are linked BY BLOOD to the descendants of JAPHETH.

The Hittites are defined in every sense as being strictly 'white' and, they are descendants of Heth and the Heth generations of people.

Hitler, the Hittite
Hitzah Mayans
Ithaca
Italy
Titus...

All of these name and much more correlate to white people.

Chevron,

There is no doubt that you and I agree on Heth as the progenitor of the Hittites, the bible gives us that basis of fact. The dispute between us is that the Hittites should be called the Hattians, and the Hattians are of non-Indo European descent, which matches up with the biblical account, regardless of the timeline.

Now, the timeline, as you suggest, is very, very, very critical, on that I most certainly agree with you Chevron.

Also, there has never been a need to identify whites nor establish their period in history or the bible, the problem has always been, and still is, to establish our, which is to say, black people's existence, historically and biblically. And with the advent of Mt DNA, thank God (which supports Acts 17:26), all peoples trace back to Africans of color, which irrefutably points to a mutation process of sorts.

In all respect Chevron your argument is impressive, I just don't buy it.

Chevron Dove

10-08-2009, 10:10 AM

Clyde Coger

10-09-2009, 02:10 AM

Chevron Dove

10-09-2009, 09:33 AM

Chevron,

This note is just to let you know that I have glossed over the links and read your response, after I review all that you have listed, I will reply; be patient, my plate is full with other site issues and matters that we are clearing up...Peace In my sister friend, didn't want to leave you hanging and wondering why I hadn't responded.

Thank you so much Bro Clyde for your update!

Peace.

Clyde Coger

10-17-2009, 12:55 PM

SENEB

4th Dynasty – Old Kingdom [2400s BC]-

BEFORE THE GREAT WORLD FLOOD!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -
CLASSICAL EGYPT: THE OLD KINGDOM

“The paint is perfectly preserved, allowing the viewer to notice at once that Seneb’s wife and daughter have pale skin, untouched by the sun, reflecting their social status as high-ranking females who work mainly indoors. In contrast, the tanned, ruddy skin of Seneb and his son is typical of Egyptian depictions of men of all ranks, who were more accustomed to working outdoors.” pg 216.

http://www.amazon.com/Ancient-Egypt-David-P-Silverman/dp/019521952X

http://books.google.com/books?id=x7p_QMIjESwC&dq=silverman,+d,+ancient+egypt,+1997&printsec=frontcover&source=bn&hl=en&ei=hs7LSqznBsyptge_98HmAQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4#v=onepage&q=silverman%2C%20d%2C%20ancient%20egypt%2C%201997&f=false
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -

http://www.art-and-archaeology.com/egypt/egy61.html
http://heritage-key.com/egypt/dwarf-seneb-and-his-family

================================================== =

Bro Clyde,

Thank you for your comments. Yes we do agree on the Hittites.

In regards to the Hattians in respect to the timeline, I still refer to timelines when it comes to history. But actually, I did not realize that the question was in regards to ‘the Hittites being called Hattians’ and ‘whether the Hattians are Indo-European. I never believed that the Hittites were Hattians. I believe that, like most historical accounts; the Hittites came in and took over from the Hattians.

But as far as the true origins of the Hattians, I’ve read a lot of ambiguity on this. I do, however believe that they were originally descended from Greek origins but eventually, they became a mixed civilization. I also believe that they separated based upon ‘color’ and some bonded with the Hittites while others did not. A Hatti civilization are defined by land and by date to have dominated the northern parts of Assyria and were leagued with the Hittites in Central Italy during the 1500s B.C.

I can accept your rejection of ‘the presence of white people in the 3000s B.C.’ and can agree to disagree.

In regards to ‘Mutation’ and the term ‘Asiatics’, I will offer more later, I do however believe in mutation but not in the 2000s B.C. with regards to white people. I don’t believe that they mutated at that time based upon the events that I have presented especially in regards to ‘the war fought by Narmer’ and the origins of Adam and Cain.

Peace.

Chevron,

I have had sufficient time to review the links submitted, the first two (2) covers the book of Silverman, the third covers Seneb, a high official, was head of the royal textile works under King Pepi II in the 6th Dynasty. Furthermore, it goes on to say this:

Men and male children are painted a "suntan" brownish-red, while women and female children, who spend most of their time indoors, are pale.

To take the above and apply race, especially White, I think is a terrible mistake and doesn’t help our case, but in fact pushes for establishing the White Race, to early.

The fourth and final link is more of the same concerning the Dwarf, Seneb. However, there is this:

The miniature children, however, are portrayed in a traditional manner: nude and pointing their fingers to their mouths.

Traditions, in terms of painting, style, poising, etc…is common place, and never points to a color, other than Black (dark brown) or Brown, or some varying shade thereof. Again, I think it is a mistake to infer that pale, means white, when all of us turn a lighter complexion when in doors a lot and during the winter season.

On the post contents, let’s be sure we understand our agreement on the Hittites, here is my position again:

There is no doubt that you and I agree on Heth as the progenitor of the Hittites, the bible gives us that basis of fact. The dispute between us is that the Hittites should be called the Hattians, and the Hattians are of non-Indo European descent, which matches up with the biblical account, regardless of the timeline.*

So, what remains between us is to go over your sources on mutation, and after that, it’s pretty much a rap. Again, I have thoroughly enjoyed the conversation, so to speak, and look forward to your involvement with us in the GroupThink Project-Group...Peace In my sister friend.

decipherx1

10-17-2009, 04:34 PM

I happen to agree w/ both perspecticves, but what is ALWAYS confusing is Egyptian chronolgy, and one must always remember:
The Egyptians nor the Jews would have wrote that much on the Hyskos
(Who were the REAL enslavers of the Jews) because they did not want to give them to much praise in the history books, because names back then were very sacred, and by remembering and repeating that persons name, you cause them to live on forever, as the Egyptains were notorious for erasing the History of Kings( and in some cases Queens) they did not like. I still am doing study on both sides and will share my studies in the future as I go along, hotep.

Chevron Dove

10-21-2009, 08:13 PM

Chevron,

I have had sufficient time to review the links submitted, the first two (2) covers the book of Silverman, the third covers Seneb, a high official, was head of the royal textile works under King Pepi II in the 6th Dynasty. Furthermore, it goes on to say this:

Men and male children are painted a "suntan" brownish-red, while women and female children, who spend most of their time indoors, are pale.

To take the above and apply race, especially White, I think is a terrible mistake and doesn’t help our case, but in fact pushes for establishing the White Race, to early.

The fourth and final link is more of the same concerning the Dwarf, Seneb. However, there is this:

The miniature children, however, are portrayed in a traditional manner: nude and pointing their fingers to their mouths.

Traditions, in terms of painting, style, poising, etc…is common place, and never points to a color, other than Black (dark brown) or Brown, or some varying shade thereof. Again, I think it is a mistake to infer that pale, means white, when all of us turn a lighter complexion when in doors a lot and during the winter season.

On the post contents, let’s be sure we understand our agreement on the Hittites, here is my position again:

There is no doubt that you and I agree on Heth as the progenitor of the Hittites, the bible gives us that basis of fact. The dispute between us is that the Hittites should be called the Hattians, and the Hattians are of non-Indo European descent, which matches up with the biblical account, regardless of the timeline.*

So, what remains between us is to go over your sources on mutation, and after that, it’s pretty much a rap. Again, I have thoroughly enjoyed the conversation, so to speak, and look forward to your involvement with us in the GroupThink Project-Group...Peace In my sister friend.

Bro Clyde,

So I still see and read what is before me but, I appreciate your input regarding Seneb. I've been gone for awhile!

Some authors place Seneb in the 4th Dynasty because his name matches Seneferu and other details. And some place him in the 6th Dynasty. At any rate, there are a number of pale or white painted people in the Old Kingdom. And yes, there were also red-brown paintings of people as well. Whether or not, the intent, it correlates to thousands of years of color discrimination and etc. But, I again will agree to disagree on this point.

Looking forward to joining the Group Think Project! I've just returned tonight for a brief time and need to re-cooperate! Hope to spend more time on this message board next week!

Clyde Coger

10-22-2009, 02:07 PM

Bro Clyde,

So I still see and read what is before me but, I appreciate your input regarding Seneb. I've been gone for awhile!

Some authors place Seneb in the 4th Dynasty because his name matches Seneferu and other details. And some place him in the 6th Dynasty. At any rate, there are a number of pale or white painted people in the Old Kingdom. And yes, there were also red-brown paintings of people as well. Whether or not, the intent, it correlates to thousands of years of color discrimination and etc. But, I again will agree to disagree on this point.

Looking forward to joining the Group Think Project! I've just returned tonight for a brief time and need to re-cooperate! Hope to spend more time on this message board next week!

Chevron,

And that is precisely my point Chevron, the scholars are guessing and no one knows for sure. As you say, some say the 4th dynasty, some say the 6th. Also, yes to color discrimination pre-existing, if you will; just look at the recent posts/threads concerning Albinos and how our people have treated with them down through years.

Don’t forget our mutation overview, and get some rest Dove, because we are excited about your decision to join the GroupThink Project-Group, we are ready to put you to work:).
Your friend,

Chevron Dove

10-22-2009, 05:19 PM

Chevron,

And that is precisely my point Chevron, the scholars are guessing and no one knows for sure. As you say, some say the 4th dynasty, some say the 6th. Also, yes to color discrimination pre-existing, if you will; just look at the recent posts/threads concerning Albinos and how our people have treated with them down through years.

Don’t forget our mutation overview, and get some rest Dove, because we are excited about your decision to join the GroupThink Project-Group, we are ready to put you to work:).
Your friend,

Bro Clyde,

Jesus said to research the word and the scriptures. Based upon the historian's basis of Seneb in the 4th or 6th Dynasty, the point-of-reference would be the GREAT WORLD FLOOD of which, according to the detailed Biblical timeline happened between the 4th and the 6th Dynasties. In addition, Seneferu, the founder of the 4th Dynasty did have a number of white or 'pale' people defined to this dynasty [Nofret, the daughter-in-law of Seneferu]. So, my approach to Seneb is not to conclude on him in either the 4th or the 6th dynasty but, to receive what I read and see in agreement with the Word of God. I compare the Bible to secular historians and both define the presence of white people even before the time of Seneferu of the 4th Dynasty.

Remember, I base the presence of white people on Amen-the-Unifier and the descendants of both Adam and Cain, people that existed a thousand years before the 4th Dynasty!

3150 B.C. - - this is the time of the war of Amen-the-unifier

He warred against the Asiatics in North Egypt and unified Egypt.

I believe the bigger danger is not accepting the truth about script whether it is the presence of white people on the earth, or anything pertaining to human degradation is the problem with humanity. The Word of God has been blasphemed.

Bro Clyde, even if the paintings of pale people and red-brown people in the Old Kingdom [both 4th and 6th Dynasties] with STRAIGHT HAIR was done, then WHY!? Why would the aboriginal Egyptians or black people in the past allow this? How did white people come to dominate kemet [black lands], whether in 2000s BC or before? Were white people that powerful that they could overthrow the ancient blacks? What was wrong with black people that they would allow such paintings to exist for thousands of years?

MUTATION -- I still have not offered any comments on mutation yet. Science is my discipline and, as a science major, I must tell you that I'm limited on the subject of mutation. I will have to do a little more research before I can even comment. I kind of remember something about 'adaptation' as oppose to 'mutation' when I was studying about Darwinism but, I'm vague on the issue. In regards to 'albinism', I've not read that thread but, I've read much on the discrimination that albino people have receive from all humanity. As a matter of fact, the subject of 'albinism' is very much apart of my research in regards to the presence of white and in regards to the idea of mutation and genetics. I remember reading that in your book as well and this interested me greatly.

Clyde Coger

10-22-2009, 06:15 PM

God is not the author of confusion ...That's for sure

Bro Clyde,

Jesus said to research the word and the scriptures. Based upon the historian's basis of Seneb in the 4th or 6th Dynasty, the point-of-reference would be the GREAT WORLD FLOOD of which, according to the detailed Biblical timeline happened between the 4th and the 6th Dynasties. In addition, Seneferu, the founder of the 4th Dynasty did have a number of white or 'pale' people defined to this dynasty [Nofret, the daughter-in-law of Seneferu]. So, my approach to Seneb is not to conclude on him in either the 4th or the 6th dynasty but, to receive what I read and see in agreement with the Word of God. I compare the Bible to secular historians and both define the presence of white people even before the time of Seneferu of the 4th Dynasty.

Remember, I base the presence of white people on Amen-the-Unifier and the descendants of both Adam and Cain, people that existed a thousand years before the 4th Dynasty!

3150 B.C. - - this is the time of the war of Amen-the-unifier

He warred against the Asiatics in North Egypt and unified Egypt.

I believe the bigger danger is not accepting the truth about script whether it is the presence of white people on the earth, or anything pertaining to human degradation is the problem with humanity. The Word of God has been blasphemed.

Bro Clyde, even if the paintings of pale people and red-brown people in the Old Kingdom with STRAIGHT HAIR was done, then WHY!? Why would the aboriginal Egyptians or black people in the past allow this? How did white people come to dominate kemet [black lands], whether in 2000s BC or before? Were white people that powerful that they could overthrow the ancient blacks? What was wrong with black people that they would allow such paintings to exist for thousands of years?

MUTATION -- I still have not offered any comments on mutation yet. Science is my discipline and, as a science major, I must tell you that I'm limited on the subject of mutation. I will have to do a little more research before I can even comment. I kind of remember something about 'adaptation' as oppose to 'mutation' when I was studying about Darwinism but, I'm vague on the issue. In regards to 'albinism', I've not read that thread but, I've read much on the discrimination that albino people have receive from all humanity. As a matter of fact, the subject of 'albinism' is very much apart of my research in regards to the presence of white and in regards to the idea of mutation and genetics. I remember reading that in your book as well and this interested me greatly.

[B]Chevron,

Remember this, Deuteronomy 29:29; there will be much that we never resolve, only God has the full truth. The methodology of comparative analysis juxtaposing secular data and the Bible is admirable, it's just that I'm uncertain as to the accuracy of the data; besides, didn't we agree to disagree:).

Commenting briefly on a few of the issues, the straight hair could represent females; and the traditions within which Egyptian artifacts were preserved, represent rigid formalities, which were designed with future discoveries in mind, in other words, the Egyptians were very particular with the manner by which they depicted themselves.

I think that as we get into mutation issues, the picture will become clearer. Peace In my sister friend.

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