How many of y'all ever seen the Lion King? I didn't see until my oldest daughter was old enough to watch it. It's been 2 years now for me. I liked the story and saw the message in it from my first viewing. In May, Lion King Broadway will be coming to Las Vegas so my family and I are making preparations to attend. I recently went on Youtube to see some scenes from Lion King Broadway and I must admit I was quite impressed.

On the next weeks, what I would like for us to do is an intensive study of the Lion King, it's relation to Sunjata, Shaka Zulu and Black people, as well as, its motif in African spiritual traditions.

I want our discussion to be interactive - incorporating music, Youtube and other things.

All on board please sign in with an "Ayibobo".

Our first exhibit - Exhibit A:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/H-imghv_Tqg&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/H-imghv_Tqg&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


Blackbird

E pele O

Da circle of life .....Ayibobo....what does it mean ????

help me out as i'm trying to learn but i've seen LION KING ova a dozen times !

Da circle of life .....Ayibobo....what does it mean ????

help me out as i'm trying to learn but i've seen LION KING ova a dozen times !

Ayibobo is a greeting used among Vodouisants.

Lion King - the ancestors

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ryhslEPIUH0&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ryhslEPIUH0&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Blackbird

Real-life Rafiki

http://www.prometra.org/FrenchWebsite/gtfndepp.gif

Ndeppkat (priestess of the Ndepp tradition of Senegal)

Real-life Rafiki

http://www.prometra.org/FrenchWebsite/gtfndepp.gif

Ndeppkat (priestess of the Ndepp tradition of Senegal)
Oyinbo has finally submitted to Mama Africa. Amen!

Inspiration for the Lion masks. Tutsi lion dancers....

http://abbot.si.edu/naa/images/tutsi.jpg

Here is an excerpt from a Rootworker's, Divine Prince ( A Hurricane Katrina evacuee from New Orleans), Keen account page.

"Many African societies see masks as mediators between the living world and the supernatural world of the dead, ancestors and other entities. Masks became and still become the attribute of a dressed up dancer who gave it life and word at the time of ceremonies.
In producing a mask, a sculptor's aim is to depict a person's psychological and moral characteristics, rather than provide a portrait.
The sculptor begins by cutting a piece of wood and leaving it to dry in the sun; if it cracks, it cannot be used for a mask. African sculptors see wood as a complex living material and believe each piece can add its own feature to their work. Having made certain the wood is suitable, the sculptor begins, using an azde to carve the main features, a chisel to work on details and a rough leaf to sand the piece.
He then paints the mask with pigments such as charcoal (to give a black colour), powders made from vegetable matter or trees (for ochre/earth tones) or mineral powders like clay (to give a white colour).
African peoples often symbolize death by the colour white rather than black; at the same time, many African cultures see white as the colour that links them to their ancestors, and it can therefore have a positive meaning.

The second face.

I am not myself."

http://www.keen.com/CommunityServer/UserBlogPosts/Divine_Prince/African-Mask-and-the-Bamana---Bambara---Bamanya----Baumana-----Banbara---Manding-----Mandingo--people-tribe-from-Mali--West-Africa/341731.aspx

He has more interesting information on the Bambara people at his page.

Blackbird

Bambara Tiwara masks - similiar to the mask the brother singing at the beginning of the Circle of Life was wearing.

http://www.vub.ac.be/BIBLIO/nieuwenhuysen/african-art/images/afr819.jpg

Blackbird

Mask from the Gio people of Ivory Coast and Liberia.

http://www.worldartswest.org/plm/guide/locator/images/mask09e.jpg

Notice the similarities in the facial makeup of Rafiki.

Blackbird

Another mask exhibit from the Bwa people of Burkina Faso

http://www.uiowa.edu/~africart/Burkina_mask_catalogue/image/1909_bwa_pa_harvest.jpg

Now since I have given you an introduction in various African masks and their incorporation into the Lion King Broadway set, let's get into the purpose of this thread.

A brief synopsis of the Lion King story is there was a lion cub, destined to be king, but his jealous uncle thwarted his smooth transition to inheritance. This cub was dispossessed by his ruthless uncle and chased into exile by his uncle's hyena henchmen. In exile, this lion cub was rescued and befriended by a merkat and warthog. They were, in the chain of hierarchy, some of the lowiest animals and certainly not the kind a lion royalty would associate with. Time goes on and one day a childhood friend of the now grown lion cub enters into the domain of his friend to hunt. The cub and his childhood friend remembers each other and the friend beseeches the lion cub to return back to his pride to assume the throne. An old monkey, in touch with the spirit world, legitimatizes him and educates him into the true nature of his being. The cub returns to confront his uncle, whom he overthrows, and ends victorious.

Let's discuss it.

Blackbird

In the story the names we have are:

Simba - /Swahili/ - Young Lion
Mufasa - /Swahili/ - King (Simba's father)
Rafiki - /Swahili/ - Friend (Mufasa's priest and friend)
Nala - /Swahili/ - Queen (Simba's mate)
Sarabi - /Swahili/ - Mirage (Simba's mother)

One of the stories of Africa that the story "Lion King" comes from is the story of Sunjata or Sundiata, the founder of the Empire of Mali. In Dahomean Vodun thought, Sunjata would be a Tohossou. Of course, Sunjata is of Mande origin coming from the small kingdom of Kangaba, but if we start thinking Pan-African wise as Black people in America with both Mande and Ewe/Fon ancestry in our makeup - we can make such connections. Another Vodun concept expressed in Lion King was the concept of the "stars" with "ancestorship" and "soul habitation".

Of particular note is the important role, Rafiki the monkey-priest/ess plays in Simba's reconnection to his ancestors and resurrection in full kinghood. The Ifa Odu Oturupon Meji speaks of the role the diviner priest and propitation of the ancestors have in one attaining a good life. Throughout Africa, various societies speak about the connection paying proper homage to one's ancestors has one one's life and well-being. The Dagara people of northern Ghana and the Bamana people of southeastern Mali discuss how losing a connection with one's ancestral soul by removing one's ancestral culture impacts the psychological and social health of a person. These societies forewarn of restlessness, intense anger, mental illness and overall apathy that can be discovered in a disconnected person separated from his sie or dya. In Vodun, it is the kpoli, an aspect of an individual's soul composition that is located in the stars and serves as a union point of their destiny and ancestral lineage.

Let's go deeper.

Blackbird

All other things aside, there is no denying our greatness. We are the living embodiment of cross-cultural unity. Our philosophical, theological, and cultural make up is legendary in itself.

The framework for which we are to establish who we are, is based on three categories of people - African Traditionalists, African Muslims, and Native Americans. These three categories, in themselves, represent hundreds, if not thousands, of groups of people, and therefore, provide a broad spectrum to draw from.

One of the stories of Africa that the story "Lion King" comes from is the story of Sunjata or Sundiata, the founder of the Empire of Mali. In Dahomean Vodun thought, Sunjata would be a Tohossou. Of course, Sunjata is of Mande origin coming from the small kingdom of Kangaba, but if we start thinking Pan-African wise as Black people in America with both Mande and Ewe/Fon ancestry in our makeup - we can make such connections. Another Vodun concept expressed in Lion King was the concept of the "stars" with "ancestorship" and "soul habitation".


I don't know if this is of any significance but we are talking about lions and there is a certain amount of symbolism going on. Any way, Salif Keita is a direct decendant of Sundiata Keita, the founder of Mali. He also happens to be a Leo which is a name for Lions. Of course, some people name themselves Leo, even when they are not Leos. Any way, like most Leos, Salif is a real attention getter, in more ways than one...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salif_Keita

In this Video, he is singing one of my favorite songs Seydou. Seydou was an only child who came from a very poor family and for a living, hHe designed and made clothing for Mali residents. He was also a photographer who captured wonderful textured images, of the people of Mali, until he dies at a young age.


bqDnoSNq6Qc


Astrologer4U

In Vodun, it is the kpoli, an aspect of an individual's soul composition that is located in the stars and serves as a union point of their destiny and ancestral lineage.

Let's go deeper.

Blackbird


You are speaking my language now, Stars and aspects!!! Where are we to look to find this Kpoli aspect?


Astrologer4U

I don't know if this is of any significance but we are talking about lions and there is a certain amount of symbolism going on. Any way, Salif Keita is a direct decendant of Sundiata Keita, the founder of Mali. He also happens to be a Leo which is a name for Lions. Of course, some people name themselves Leo, even when they are not Leos. Any way, like most Leos, Salif is a real attention getter, in more ways than one...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salif_Keita

In this Video, he is singing one of my favorite songs Seydou. Seydou was an only child who came from a very poor family and for a living, hHe designed and made clothing for Mali residents. He was also a photographer who captured wonderful textured images, of the people of Mali, until he dies at a young age.


bqDnoSNq6Qc


Astrologer4U

I like Salif Keita as well. He stated he had problems with his albinism. Of course, I resonate with Sunjata and symbolically claim descent from him as for many reasons. I'm a Leo. Salif Keita once he makes his transition is eligible to be a Tohossou. In addition, I myself will be eligible if I was of royal descent.

I have his whole instrumentation.

Blackbird

You are speaking my language now, Stars and aspects!!! Where are we to look to find this Kpoli aspect?


Astrologer4U

Fa!!!!!!

Well I'll be.......my last post seems to have gone unnoticed.

All other things aside, there is no denying our greatness. We are the living embodiment of cross-cultural unity. Our philosophical, theological, and cultural make up is legendary in itself.

The framework for which we are to establish who we are, is based on three categories of people - African Traditionalists, African Muslims, and Native Americans. These three categories, in themselves, represent hundreds, if not thousands, of groups of people, and therefore, provide a broad spectrum to draw from.

Yes,my brother I get energized just thinking about the beautiful possibilities!!!

How many of y'all ever seen the Lion King? I didn't see until my oldest daughter was old enough to watch it. It's been 2 years now for me. I liked the story and saw the message in it from my first viewing. In May, Lion King Broadway will be coming to Las Vegas so my family and I are making preparations to attend. I recently went on Youtube to see some scenes from Lion King Broadway and I must admit I was quite impressed.

On the next weeks, what I would like for us to do is an intensive study of the Lion King, it's relation to Sunjata, Shaka Zulu and Black people, as well as, its motif in African spiritual traditions.

I want our discussion to be interactive - incorporating music, Youtube and other things.

All on board please sign in with an "Ayibobo".

Our first exhibit - Exhibit A:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/H-imghv_Tqg&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/H-imghv_Tqg&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


Blackbird



I think this is beautiful..........absolutely beautiful!

A little later on today, I'll explain how we can take our three categories of ancestry and create a society where traditionalism and modernity are unified as one.

Before we all go to far out on tangents, I want to reign in the discussion and talk about how the Lion King motif can be culturally relevant for us.

What do you think are the symbolism in Lion King which correlates with us?

In Lion King, the role of the ancestors were very important. What role do you believe the ancestors play in our situation?

What do we discover our past or inherited majesty?

What was the symbolism of Pubaa, the warthog, and the merkat?

What do think about one soul of an individual being called the "ancestral soul?"


Blackbird

Before we all go to far out on tangents, I want to reign in the discussion and talk about how the Lion King motif can be culturally relevant for us.

What do you think are the symbolism in Lion King which correlates with us?

In Lion King, the role of the ancestors were very important. What role do you believe the ancestors play in our situation?

What do we discover our past or inherited majesty?

What was the symbolism of Pubaa, the warthog, and the merkat?

What do think about one soul of an individual being called the "ancestral soul?"


Blackbird
In relation to Lion King, we are represented by Simba.

Our ancestors play the same role, if not a more important role, in our lives, as depicted in Lion King.

I don't understand the 3rd question

The symbolism for the warthog and merkat was about us finding our place in society and avoiding hanging around those who are not our own kind.

The Ancestral Soul is what links our past and present. It also provides a guide for the future.

In relation to Lion King, we are represented by Simba.

Our ancestors play the same role, if not a more important role, in our lives, as depicted in Lion King.

I don't understand the 3rd question

The symbolism for the warthog and merkat was about us finding our place in society and avoiding hanging around those who are not our own kind.

The Ancestral Soul is what links our past and present. It also provides a guide for the future.

Good responses, bruh. Let me clarify my 3rd question.

How do we re-discover our inherited majesty?

I like your responses as a start but let's get deeper into the matter from an African-based perspective.

How specifically are we likened to Simba? So you are saying in effect that we are like the young lion separated from our people and having to exist on the peripheral of society with society's forgotten and despised.

Take the ancestral soul a little further as well. The Bamana people call this "soul" - the dya (the shadow). The Dya is mobile and can leave the body. When the dya leaves the body through force or "invasion" (terror), the person becomes sikere-folo. Sikere-folo is a condition characterized by emotional or mental instability. In his book "Of Water and the Spirit", Malidoma Some states when someone allows an alien "culture" to define their being, that person's sie (shadow-ancestral soul) is displaced and they engage in self-destructive behavior.

I find it interesting that the ancestral soul would be liken to a "shadow". In spiritualist circles, we say each of us have a multitude of spirits that walk with us, forming what is called a "spiritual frame" for the person or a "spiritual foundation." An individual aware of and intune with their spiritual frame has one spirit, ancestral spirit, that organizes, leads and speaks for the others. This spirit that guides can be refered to as a "shadow".

In Haitian Vodou, which draws many of its concepts from African Vodun, the "ancestral soul" per se is called the lwa rasin or "root lwa". The lwa rasin is the soul of the person that links one to their ancestors and influences the behavior of the individual. When one loses the connection of the lwa rasin, they are without an anchor and lack the guidance of a lineage of genetic forebearers whom could communicate with the individual. The person in effect becomes a tree without roots and is given to go whichever way the wind blows, whatever is the latest trend or the latest hype, without an substance for nurturance. We all know a tree without roots can not stand because it is not firmly grounded and is suspectible to withered awat and dead as a victim to its surroundings. It is not tempered.
Let's go further.

Blackbird

In another part of Lion King, Rafiki tells Simba about his father. Simba asks Rafiki, "You knew my father?" Rafiki responded, "Correction. I know your father." Later on Rafiki instructs Simba to look in the pond of water to find Mufasa.

In many African societies, water separates the physical realm from the spiritual. So by looking into the water, Simba journeys into the spiritual world and receives confirmation that his father does indeed exist within and without him. He has reaffirmed the ancestral link, connecting him to the many kings of the pride and legitimatizes him as true heir to the throne.

Rafiki, being an intermediary to the spiritual world as a royal priest/ess, still maintains contact with Mufasa.
Blackbird

You are speaking my language now, Stars and aspects!!! Where are we to look to find this Kpoli aspect?


Astrologer4U

A person's kpoli is divined before birth or shortly after birth by a bokono (Afa priest). The kpoli is a person's life sign determined by the 256 Du.

Blackbird

A person's kpoli is divined before birth or shortly after birth by a bokono (Afa priest). The kpoli is a person's life sign determined by the 256 Du.

Blackbird
256 Du? 'Bout time you started speaking my language!

256 Du? 'Bout time you started speaking my language!

It seems like you speak the same language as computers - binary code.

The human mind is indeed a macroprocessor.

Blackbird

A little later on today, I'll explain how we can take our three categories of ancestry and create a society where traditionalism and modernity are unified as one.

Brother,

This is the ingenuity of African people and African thought - it is dynamic.

Blackbird

For your listening enjoyment, here is Salif Keita's Mansa of Mali - one of my favorite songs since 1999, ya dig.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/lNDFYFG5i28&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/lNDFYFG5i28&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Blackbird

It seems like you speak the same language as computers - binary code.

The human mind is indeed a macroprocessor.

Blackbird
Indeed, I do speak the same language as computers. On a more grand scale, I speak the language of life - Mathematics.

What do you think are the symbolism in Lion King which correlates with us?

Lion King paid attention to the signs, many of us black people, we don't.

In Lion King, the role of the ancestors were very important. What role do you believe the ancestors play in our situation?

We don't keep them (our ancestors) in our memory, we don't pay tribute to them. The more we forget them, the more we lose contact with them. The more we lose contact with them, the more we lose ourselves. The Lion King had forgotten about his ancestors, until Rafiki showed him in a tangible way. I don't pay homage to my ancestors like I should, and they have tried to get me to do so by contacting me in dreams. However, my dreams about them have confused me. The confusion mixed with religion has gotten me all messed up with not feeling comfortable about visiting graves. However, now I don't feel that way and I am going to put forth an effort to go visit them.

What do we discover our past or inherited majesty?

I am not clear on this question.

What was the symbolism of Pubaa, the warthog, and the merkat?

I think they were reincarnated ancestors, or ancestral spirits. Lion King would not have paid them any attention, as many of us do now, had he not been in a situation where he couldn't afford to be picky about who to hang out with. Things happen for a reason, The universe, our ancestors fixed it up so that Lion King would never forget them. Good thing Lion King paid attention to all the signs as many of us do not. Had he ignored the signs, he would have never been able to reclaim his rightful pace.

What do think about one soul of an individual being called the "ancestral soul?"

I think the ancestral soul is a mirror of our self, our ancestors, our people represent us. This was shown when the Lion King looked into the water, he saw himself from the present, to the past, back to the present. We forget our past and our past represents our ancestors. We are the result of our ancestors in the present, but we are not aware of this so we are not able to see how we would benefit from that knowledge.


A person's kpoli is divined before birth or shortly after birth by a bokono (Afa priest). The kpoli is a person's life sign determined by the 256 Du.


So it is to late for me it is too late to find out what Kpoli aspect is huh?


For your listening enjoyment, here is Salif Keita's Mansa of Mali - one of my favorite songs since 1999, ya dig.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/lNDFYFG5i28&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/lNDFYFG5i28&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Blackbird

Hmmm, it's one of my favorites now.

Great selection...




Astrologer4U

Lion King paid attention to the signs, many of us black people, we don't.



We don't keep them (our ancestors) in our memory, we don't pay tribute to them. The more we forget them, the more we lose contact with them. The more we lose contact with them, the more we lose ourselves. The Lion King had forgotten about his ancestors, until Rafiki showed him in a tangible way. I don't pay homage to my ancestors like I should, and they have tried to get me to do so by contacting me in dreams. However, my dreams about them have confused me. The confusion mixed with religion has gotten me all messed up with not feeling comfortable about visiting graves. However, now I don't feel that way and I am going to put forth an effort to go visit them.



I am not clear on this question.



I think they were reincarnated ancestors, or ancestral spirits. Lion King would not have paid them any attention, as many of us do now, had he not been in a situation where he couldn't afford to be picky about who to hang out with. Things happen for a reason, The universe, our ancestors fixed it up so that Lion King would never forget them. Good thing Lion King paid attention to all the signs as many of us do not. Had he ignored the signs, he would have never been able to reclaim his rightful pace.



I think the ancestral soul is a mirror of our self, our ancestors, our people represent us. This was shown when the Lion King looked into the water, he saw himself from the present, to the past, back to the present. We forget our past and our past represents our ancestors. We are the result of our ancestors in the present, but we are not aware of this so we are not able to see how we would benefit from that knowledge.





So it is to late for me it is too late to find out what Kpoli aspect is huh?




Hmmm, it's one of my favorites now.

Great selection...




Astrologer4U

Great responses....

If you can tell me - what signs are we looking for?

Indeed, we don't do enough for our ancestors, me included. You don't have to visit any graveyards to pay respects and communicate with them. Now if you feel the graveyard is your place - I would suggest you look into Oya. If you are receiving dreams from them - pay attention and fast. If you need information about honoring your ancestors as well as retaining dreams, I'm here to help.

I clarified the third question in a latter post.

The warthog and merkat... hmm... an interesting take as reincarnated ancestors. We will discuss this more when I have more time available.

In a latter post, I provide a very brief treatment of the ancestral soul from an African-centered perspective. Hopefully we can discuss this in greater detail because I believe this is central to us as a people as well as a very important concept to grasp. Trust me.

It's never to late to discover your life sign. Even in death, your sign can be determined.

Salif Keita is cool, yeh...

Blackbird (hopefully we can all continue this discussion and delve deeper into the symbolism)

Blackbird,

Cap in hand, I shall admit that I don't have any meaningful contribution to make. I am cursed with a literal, scientific mind that struggles with lateral thinking, and specifically, spiritual symbolism. I am however following this thread with great interest and learning alot so I should be able to join the dots and chip in soon.

Ps - I have no doubt you shall enjoy Lion King. It has been sold out every night since it opened in London so I have not had a chance to watch it. Sighs.

Alexandra.

Great responses....

If you can tell me - what signs are we looking for?

Indeed, we don't do enough for our ancestors, me included. You don't have to visit any graveyards to pay respects and communicate with them. Now if you feel the graveyard is your place - I would suggest you look into Oya. If you are receiving dreams from them - pay attention and fast. If you need information about honoring your ancestors as well as retaining dreams, I'm here to help.

Ps - Living in the Diaspora means no access to graveyards and I did explore the possibility of having gravedirt from my ancestors grave brought to me, but it seems to be such a contentious topic, with some people advising against this due to certain rules/protocols which if not adhered to could result in all sorts of misfortunes (this was from a Palero priest) so I decided not to.

I can never recall my dreams. Ever. If anyone has experienced this and was able to overcome it, please do let me know how you did it.

A

Blackbird,

Cap in hand, I shall admit that I don't have any meaningful contribution to make. I am cursed with a literal, scientific mind that struggles with lateral thinking, and specifically, spiritual symbolism. I am however following this thread with great interest and learning alot so I should be able to join the dots and chip in soon.

Ps - I have no doubt you shall enjoy Lion King. It has been sold out every night since it opened in London so I have not had a chance to watch it. Sighs.

Alexandra.

No problem, sister. We are all learning here. It's not really looking at symbolism per se; we are discussing certain themes inherent in African spiritual systems that are relevant and that can generate thought.

I used the Lion King based on the story itself and its foundation in African historical and spiritual bases. We are looking at African systems froma philosophical basis, if that in of itself is possible.

Blackbird

Ps - Living in the Diaspora means no access to graveyards and I did explore the possibility of having gravedirt from my ancestors grave brought to me, but it seems to be such a contentious topic, with some people advising against this due to certain rules/protocols which if not adhered to could result in all sorts of misfortunes (this was from a Palero priest) so I decided not to.

I can never recall my dreams. Ever. If anyone has experienced this and was able to overcome it, please do let me know how you did it.

A



Indeed, graveyard must be collected according to tradition and with certain protocol for respect. I would never advise for you to have someone do it for you if you will using the dirt. A simple deposit in return for graveyard dirt of your ancestors would be rum or whiskey, pennies and a broken glass, but it's always advisable to contact your ancestors first and determine their wishes. Also, you must be protected when entering any cemetary for those purposes so not to attract unwanted spirits to you. The rule is cleanse before and cleanse after.

There is no need to collect graveyard just for ancestral communication. Erect a nice altar or shrine for your folks with all the tools of communication available. I told someone that once you got your people's attention and they start to talk, you will have a hard time getting them to keep quiet. I am going deaf in my right ear because my spirits stay chattering.

A good dream recall method is to cleanse your sleeping area. You know how to cleanse. Make sure you sweep underneath real good. Place on new warm white sheets. Place a bowl of vinegar underneath your bed on a Sunday night. Keep it underneath for 7 days. Pour it out on the 7th day under running cool water. Then place a bowl of water with honey in it under your bed for 7 days. Pour it out in the same fashion. Then keep a basin of cool water underneath your bed afterwards. Replace the water every 7 days. Keep a dream journal nearby. Also wrap your head with clean white cloth and place a glass of water with a white candle on a table near your head. Hope this helps.

Blackbird

Great responses....

If you can tell me - what signs are we looking for?

Signs are everywhere, not just in the stars. Our food has signs, people we meet give us signs and the list goes on. If you read the first page of this thread, I am sure you will get a kick out of it...

http://destee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57347

Indeed, we don't do enough for our ancestors, me included. You don't have to visit any graveyards to pay respects and communicate with them. Now if you feel the graveyard is your place - I would suggest you look into Oya. If you are receiving dreams from them - pay attention and fast. If you need information about honoring your ancestors as well as retaining dreams, I'm here to help.


Yes I do need information, preferably information you know for your self will work.

I clarified the third question in a latter post.

Didn't see it...


The warthog and merkat... hmm... an interesting take as reincarnated ancestors. We will discuss this more when I have more time available.

Don't forget...

In a latter post, I provide a very brief treatment of the ancestral soul from an African-centered perspective. Hopefully we can discuss this in greater detail because I believe this is central to us as a people as well as a very important concept to grasp. Trust me.

Whenever I have over looked something, please give me the post number, that would make things easier. You have many Latter post to refer to but how would I know which one needs to be looked at?


It's never to late to discover your life sign. Even in death, your sign can be determined.

Tell me how to obtain this information?

Salif Keita is cool, yeh...

Blackbird (hopefully we can all continue this discussion and delve deeper into the symbolism)

Yes, Salif has a great story to tell and a wonderful voice to tell it with.

I am looking forward to delving deeper. In fact, some things about this thread to me seem to tie into the thread I created about Credo Mudwa...




Astrologer4U

Ayibobo Sister Astrologer,

Thank you for your timely response. I will repost my clarification of the 3rd question as well as the additional info regarding the ancestral soul.

Here is the initial post:

Good responses, bruh. Let me clarify my 3rd question.


How do we re-discover our inherited majesty?

I like your responses as a start but let's get deeper into the matter from an African-based perspective.

How specifically are we likened to Simba? So you are saying in effect that we are like the young lion separated from our people and having to exist on the peripheral of society with society's forgotten and despised.

Take the ancestral soul a little further as well. The Bamana people call this "soul" - the dya (the shadow). The Dya is mobile and can leave the body. When the dya leaves the body through force or "invasion" (terror), the person becomes sikere-folo. Sikere-folo is a condition characterized by emotional or mental instability. In his book "Of Water and the Spirit", Malidoma Some states when someone allows an alien "culture" to define their being, that person's sie (shadow-ancestral soul) is displaced and they engage in self-destructive behavior.

I find it interesting that the ancestral soul would be liken to a "shadow". In spiritualist circles, we say each of us have a multitude of spirits that walk with us, forming what is called a "spiritual frame" for the person or a "spiritual foundation." An individual aware of and intune with their spiritual frame has one spirit, ancestral spirit, that organizes, leads and speaks for the others. This spirit that guides can be refered to as a "shadow".

[SIZE=3]In Haitian Vodou, which draws many of its concepts from African Vodun, the "ancestral soul" per se is called the lwa rasin or "root lwa". The lwa rasin is the soul of the person that links one to their ancestors and influences the behavior of the individual. When one loses the connection of the lwa rasin, they are without an anchor and lack the guidance of a lineage of genetic forebearers whom could communicate with the individual. The person in effect becomes a tree without roots and is given to go whichever way the wind blows, whatever is the latest trend or the latest hype, without an substance for nurturance. We all know a tree without roots can not stand because it is not firmly grounded and is suspectible to withered awat and dead as a victim to its surroundings. It is not tempered.
This Lion King thread was started due to what I see is a lack of indepth study of African spiritual concepts and a lack of discussion of the relevancy of our cultural themes in our lives. I thought it would be good for us to talk about such things to gain a better understanding and stimulate thought instead of discussing concepts foreign to our ancestral understanding. Many of our people are firstly unaware of the various traditions out there and secondly do not know of the deep wisdom and understanding inherent in these traditions. What I have found is what is taught in these traditions is like an onion; there are a multitude of layers to peel back depending on an individual's understanding.

I wanted to show that contrary to Hollywood sensationalism, Christian indocrination and our own limited biases the traditions of our ancestors, those direct ancestors of the people who came to the Western hemisphere in shackles, is more than juju, blood sacrifices and costly initiations. Our ancestors, independent of anyone else, developed beautiful, dynamic and self-conscious traditions that could possibly provide guidance and answers to the problems we face collectively as a people. My goal is not to proselytize, but to introduce and discuss, as well as, to learn. I feel there are alot of inaccuracies being circulated out there and these inaccuracies serve as distractions and feed into fanciful notions that lead to nowhere. I have been swayed over the past 7 years by many of these individuals that prey on the ignorance of our people and I believe we can move beyond the "side-track" stuff by going to the actual traditions themselves and not to the self-proclaimed representatives of them.

I am a practitioner. I would never suggest something that I have not tried out myself or can not attest to the veracity of it's effectiveness. A dream recall formula is, as i posted to Sister A:

"A good dream recall method is to cleanse your sleeping area. You know how to cleanse. Make sure you sweep underneath real good. Place on new warm white sheets. Place a bowl of vinegar underneath your bed on a Sunday night. Keep it underneath for 7 days. Pour it out on the 7th day under running cool water. Then place a bowl of water with honey in it under your bed for 7 days. Pour it out in the same fashion. Then keep a basin of cool water underneath your bed afterwards. Replace the water every 7 days. Keep a dream journal nearby. Also wrap your head with clean white cloth and place a glass of water with a white candle on a table near your head. Hope this helps."

Thanks,
Blackbird

Thank you ever so much for that dream recall technique Bro.B. I will most certainly implement it.

Greetings all,

With regard to this post, here is my humble contribution. It might be way off the mark, so please bear in mind my previous qualification i.e. being a prisoner of rationalist thought.


What do you think are the symbolism in Lion King which correlates with us?

I think that Simba represents the descendants of displaced African Americans slaves who need re-discover and re-claim what is rightfully theirs by birthright. One could even develop this theory further and suggest that these descendants are also expected to avenge the wrongful deaths of the ancestors.

This latter postulation reminds me of something interesting that was said in the Katrina documentary by Spike Lee titled ‘"When the Levees Broke: A Requiem in Four Acts" (2006) ’. A Brother said that the Hurricane originated along the West African coast, and ended up in NOLA, thus essentially following the slave trade route. He was of the opinion that this was a message from the Ancestors expressing their displeasure at being forgotten.


In Lion King, the role of the ancestors were very important. What role do you believe the ancestors play in our situation?


a. To provide guidance and direction so that we can successfully perform what is required of us – a monumental task no less? The reason I say it is a monumental task is because of the way Simba was easily manipulated by the more experienced and conniving Scar. His innocent nature didn’t stand a chance. It doesn’t take much to draw parallels between this scenario and the present one between Black folk and White ones.

Simba... Let me tell you something that my father told me... Look at the stars. The great kings of the past look down on us from those stars.

Simba: Really?

Mufasa: Yes... So whenever you feel alone, just remember that those kings will always be there to guide you ... And so will I.


b. To be remembered, and in doing so, remember who we are? Such a crucial concept and one that has already been discussed.

Mufasa: Simba . . .

Simba: Father?

Mufasa: Simba, you have forgotten me.

Simba: No. How could I?

Mufasa: You have forgotten who you are, and so have forgotten me. Look inside yourself, Simba. You are more than what you have become. You must take your place in the Circle of Life.

I found it interesting that the King mentioned the Circle of Life twice.

The fist instance is in the beginning when he is teaching Simba.

Mufasa: Everything you see exists together, in a delicate balance. As king, you need to understand that balance, and respect all the creatures-- from the crawling ant to the leaping antelope.
Simba: But, Dad, don't we eat the antelope?
Mufasa: Yes, Simba, but let me explain. When we die, our bodies become the grass. And the antelope eat the grass. And so we are all connected in the great Circle of Life

What do ‘all interpret this to mean? I am tempted to compare it to the new Age that is coming where balance is going to be restored and it will be as it was before; when man respected nature and lived in harmony with it. I couldn’t help but wonder if Mufasa’s/our ancestors’ deaths had to happen in order for this to manifest. A self sacrifice if you will whichs is why we must honor, and remember them.

Scar is also aware of this change and references it several times;

'So prepare for a chance of a lifetime
Be prepared for sensational news
A shining new era
Is tiptoeing nearer'

And

'Scar: ...For me it is a deep personal loss. So it is with a heavy heart that I assume the throne. Yet, out of the ashes of this tragedy, we shall rise to greet the dawning of a new era... {The hyenas start emerging, casting eerie green shadows and laughing hollowly} ...in which lion and hyena come together, in a great and glorious future! {Scar ascends Pride Rock as the hyenas appear in full force.

The camera pans to Rafiki who is shaking his head in the distance. The scene changes with Rafiki in the same position. He is in his tree house. After wiping away a tear, he reaches up and rubs his hand across the cub painting, smearing it. The camera changes. The painting, smeared, is overlaid on Simba laying out in the hot desert sun. Buzzards are circling the cub's body. One descends, then all. They circle around it. With a blast of music, Timon riding Pumbaa appears and dives into the midst of the buzzards. They slap and kick the buzzards all away.}



Simba: How can I go back? I'm not who I used to be.

I think the last statement is key. I will expand on this shortly.

What was the symbolism of Pumba, the warthog, and the merkat?

I have a feeling that these two represent what some people call Angels, or others such as yourself know as the Lwa. The necessity of these ‘Helpers’ is shown in the film, the Golden compass. Or indeed The Lord of the rings, where Frodo had his faithful companions, without whom he would never have made it though his perilous journey

A

Thank you ever so much for that dream recall technique Bro.B. I will most certainly implement it.

Greetings all,

With regard to this post, here is my humble contribution. It might be way off the mark, so please bear in mind my previous qualification i.e. being a prisoner of rationalist thought.




I think that Simba represents the descendants of displaced African Americans slaves who need re-discover and re-claim what is rightfully theirs by birthright. One could even develop this theory further and suggest that these descendants are also expected to avenge the wrongful deaths of the ancestors.

This latter postulation reminds me of something interesting that was said in the Katrina documentary by Spike Lee titled ‘"When the Levees Broke: A Requiem in Four Acts" (2006) ’. A Brother said that the Hurricane originated along the West African coast, and ended up in NOLA, thus essentially following the slave trade route. He was of the opinion that this was a message from the Ancestors expressing their displeasure at being forgotten.




a. To provide guidance and direction so that we can successfully perform what is required of us – a monumental task no less? The reason I say it is a monumental task is because of the way Simba was easily manipulated by the more experienced and conniving Scar. His innocent nature didn’t stand a chance. It doesn’t take much to draw parallels between this scenario and the present one between Black folk and White ones.

Simba... Let me tell you something that my father told me... Look at the stars. The great kings of the past look down on us from those stars.

Simba: Really?

Mufasa: Yes... So whenever you feel alone, just remember that those kings will always be there to guide you ... And so will I.



Mufasa: Simba . . .

Simba: Father?

Mufasa: Simba, you have forgotten me.

Simba: No. How could I?

Mufasa: You have forgotten who you are, and so have forgotten me. Look inside yourself, Simba. You are more than what you have become. You must take your place in the Circle of Life.



Simba: How can I go back? I'm not who I used to be.

I think the last statement is key. I will expand on this shortly.



I have a feeling that these two represent what some people call Angels, or others such as yourself know as the Lwa. The necessity of these ‘Helpers’ is shown in the film, the Golden compass. Or indeed The Lord of the rings, where Frodo had his faithful companions, without whom he would never have made it though his perilous journey

A

When the student is ready, the teacher enter....

Thanks Sis. A. I learned alot from your breakdown. I like to see other people's take on something. I was taught by an elder that no arrow goes off-center if it is aimed with the right intent. Sister, your intent was on point. We all are here to share and learn and each of us has been blessed with a perspective. It is through collecting perspectives that we can begin to see the picture.

I love you all. Everyone who has stepped forth and offered their humble assessment, you are truly amazing in my eyes and you speak "so dayi" as a vehicle for the ancestors. Thank you.

Let's continue our discussion. My next post will forward this study.

Blackbird

Simba. You are more than what you have become. You must take your place in the Circle of Life.

Simba: How can I go back? I'm not who I used to be.

I think the last statement is key. I will expand on this shortly.

Simba feels inadequate because of what he has become. In his mind, he thinks he has fallen from grace (feeling responsible for the death of his Father).

From being a proud civilization, to now considered to be and treated as being at the bottom of the food chain, we are not who we used to be, so how can we go back?

However, our ancestors understand that the literal truth is not the same as the poetic truth and the spiritual truth may be something else entirely. In their eyes, we are more than what we have become. I think that is such a material truth and of all the statements made in the film, this one had the most impact. Indeed, just like truth, understanding works on many levels – on as many levels as there are levels of consciousness. Until we align our understanding and consciousness with that of the ancestors, I fear we may never realize our full potential and move forward to finding our place in the
Circle of Life.

Full Chorus:
Till we find our place
On the path unwinding
In the Circle
The Circle of Life
Circle of... Life

The full Lion King script can be accessed here: http://www.angelfire.com/movies/disneybroadway/lionkingscript.html

That is all I have for now, and I agree with you BB, slowly but surely, the pieces of the puzzle will all fall into place. I have leant a great deal from this post, so thank you for having the wisdom and insight to start it. Look forward to the next installment.

A

Kayira be,

Sis. A brought up Hurricane Katrina, how this storm originated off the western coast of Africa and it possible connection to the ancestors. Here is what I would like to add.

In the Yoruba tradition, there's an orisa named Oya. Oya is one of my favorite orisa if only because of her dynamicism. A sister friend of mine stated she was in New Orleans a few weeks before the hurricane. My friend, an iyalorisa (daughter of Obatala) and former resident of New Orleans, told me she and some friends performed a ritual for Yansa (Oya). She told me that they called Iya and she came in a strong way. Hurricane Katrina sent my wife's car floating away into the Chalmete from Forstall St in the Lower 9th. My old house off of Cambronne in the 17th was flooded. My family was displaced, my uncles and cousins. One of my uncles not too long ago left his FEMA house not far from Baton Rouge.

So what does this have to with anything. Oya is connected with the wind and many times she is said to come in hurricanes. When I back at home, I would visit my family cemetary to leave offerings for Oya (nine pieces of eggplant, nine pennies, and black-eyed peas with rice). The day could have been still with no or a slight wind blowing, but when I called out to Yansa (the Mother of Nine), the wind would pick up and sometimes strong. Oya is also connected with the dead or the ancestors as she represents transition and sudden change - notwithstanding the fact that her physical abode is the cemetary. An egun staff is generally atick the height of the person who uses it and it decorated with nine different colored ribbons and bells. One uses the egun staff to call the egun. The nine is the connection. So Oya is the winds behind the hurricane.

Among the Songhai people, it is believed that the Hauka spirits come on the strong Harmattan winds blowing northeast tosouthwest from the hot dry Sahara. It is these winds which in term blow continually to the western coast of Africa and create tropical depressions over the sub-tropical and tropical Atlantic Ocean. The Hausa people say that the Zar come on winds too and the Hausa believe the Zar spirits come from a city in the Sahara desert called "Jangare".

During the Trans-Atlantic Slave trade, it is said that 2.2 million African captives (a conservative number) in the coming over from Africa. Some have suggested that it was during this time that fish from the genus Carcharodon, the Great White shark or white death, developed their voracious appetite for human flesh. Needless to say, the bottoms of the Atlantic Ocean is a litter ground of bones and these bones line a trail from Arguin, Goree Island, Cape Coast, Loango, Benguela, Ouidah, Bight of Benin and all points in between to the various slave ports of the so-called New World, and includes the Port of New Orleans.

The Bakongo people believed that all the dead go to another place underneath a watery abyss called Kalunga. Kalunga is the other-worldly waters of the deceased. I have had my experiences with Kalunga and can tell some things about it. I call it home.

So here we see how in the African conception, spirits are associated with the wind and in the Yoruba mind more specifically, the orisa associated with the dead generates the wind. We understand how the Atlantic Ocean forms an intimate connection with not only African spirits but African dead. So was Katrina an African ancestress saying "Wake up y'all and remember who you are?" We will just have to read the signs.

Blackbird

The opening song to Lion King ......what does it mean ???

To say I've seen this 100+ times on DVD and on stages across the globe would be an understatement. I know it word for word, note for note... and love it :heart: The messages are strong, on both African and eurocentric sides, depending on what seat your sitting in.. (I'll purposely refrain from the subliminals ;))

$RICH$- the translation of the opening is below:

HhXFCaU92mQ
Nants ingonyama bagithi baba (There comes a lion)
Sithi uhhmm ingonyama (Oh yes, it's a lion)

Nants ingonyama bagithi baba
Sithi uhhmm ingonyama
Ingonyama

Siyo Nqoba (We're going to conquer)
Ingonyama
Ingonyama nengw' enamabala (Here is a lion and a leopard) closer meaning.. a lion and leopard come to this open place

Thank you sister Z...now can anyone tell me what the song say that relates to us as a people
of afrocentric and what it's telling us ???

Give me a few and i'll be back to tell you what i found within the song that relates to us as i play it backwards
have you ever heard it backwards it's amazing !

To say I've seen this 100+ times on DVD and on stages across the globe would be an understatement. I know it word for word, note for note... and love it :heart: The messages are strong, on both African and eurocentric sides, depending on what seat your sitting in.. (I'll purposely refrain from the subliminals ;))

$RICH$- the translation of the opening is below:

HhXFCaU92mQ
Nants ingonyama bagithi baba (There comes a lion)
Sithi uhhmm ingonyama (Oh yes, it's a lion)

Nants ingonyama bagithi baba
Sithi uhhmm ingonyama
Ingonyama

Siyo Nqoba (We're going to conquer)
Ingonyama
Ingonyama nengw' enamabala (Here is a lion and a leopard) closer meaning.. a lion and leopard come to this open place

Sister Zulile,

Thank you for the breakdown. Are we to take the words to the song at face value or is there a deeper message behind them?

Blackbird

Thank you sister Z...now can anyone tell me what the song say that relates to us as a people
of afrocentric and what it's telling us ???

Give me a few and i'll be back to tell you what i found within the song that relates to us as i play it backwards
have you ever heard it backwards it's amazing !

Brother,

Please drop it for me. I was looking at the whole story as opposed to the song and making connections with certain indigenous beliefs. I'm willing to learn and would be most delighted to hear your perspective.

Blackbird

Here the first piece to the lion king was like the introduction .....A wake up call check
this out as i break it down in afrocentric trems .


The first sight of sound was the whispers of winds of the great ancestors of the past calling us ,
"It is time" ! as they set to rise upon the wake up call to revise our 5 senses unto the peer of
who we are , where we are , our lives,the mission ,and the goals ......the background holla
is the cry of the forefathers on what we have become as a afrocentric americans.
As we are carried through the graveyard forth wisdom arise for the knowledge therein to be tought
we are Ascendants .....people of Ruling , dominant , be supreme and prevail.



Let's pay attention for the signs are here as well
As the sunrise so do the great spirits of the past overlooking our today's and tomorrow's "future"
our future rise is instill in us all to conquer our oppressors , telling us to take our rightful place
as Kings & Queens but inside the pride lands of our temple (our minds & hearts) to bond stronger
as afrocentric people .
*when the song speak on the day we arrive on the planet .....means the day we arrived in america as
slaves
we blink and step into the sun......means when we saw our freedom form slavery telling us there's
more to see and there's so much more to do then what's been done
when they say there's more to be taken here talking about (america) and what we build here is more
to be found by us speaking of our technology and knowledge we have learned yet not applying it ,
as the sun rise high it's a glimps of the sapphire of Africa....calling us, the one's of much knowledge and
the one's whom yet obtain fullness of knowledge into the circle of life . Behold with the past and spirits
Our Ancestors and forefathers want us to know our despair and hopes, hold faith and spread love from
heart and soul bonding til we find our place on this path unwinding land of america which have divided
us, pit us against each other , broken our mental mindset of who we are...This has deem us our place
But now that the great spirits has enter the circle of life , it should move us all for the past Kingz look
upon us we now should bow unto the spirits, guiders of wisdom and learn of our 5 senses to reach our
glory and break us from bondage/struggle and poverty.
The song go on to say to the American land to let it's people go ! for in acts of display the mighty voices
of winds has proven of there great strength........but we call it Hurricane katrina as we watch the zebras splash
through the waters for those was the worriors making claim .
when you saw the King Mufasa it was the sign of us in whole collectively to over look our pride rock (Homes)
our Children and use good will the family morals we so have forgotten

Are we awaken yet !
The 5 senses our ancestors speak on through the spirits i will break down as we continue on the pathway
to all this .....and yes i am in total agreement with much of what has been written this far and what sister
Alexandra said hit mostly everything i saw and see before me.

Sister Zulile,

Thank you for the breakdown. Are we to take the words to the song at face value or is there a deeper message behind them?

Blackbird

there is a deeper meaning - that's the art of language -it portrays culture/belief/insight that is simply hard to capture. For example, the zulu term for a white person is "mlungu".. a very common phrase these days (and not all too complimentary ;) ) its meaning actually represents the white foam of the ocean waves.

It is more difficult to translate a non european language into eurospeak simply because it's entire foundation has it's focus elsewhere. While the basic translation can be captured, much is lost as words encompass so much "more" internal imagery and thus concept.

"here comes the lion" sounds kinda meek - whereas "Nants ingonyama bagithi baba" relays someone talking to their father in awe about a power arriving in the body of a lion.

As the song was written by euro folk.. the translation is what it is. "Here comes a lion" (<--- Simba enters stage left) :lol:

Let's not forget this is a stolen fable twisted into a eurocentric tale.

:heart:

Thank you Bro Rich and Sister Zulile,

I am humbled by your contributions and am the more educated. I like the way this thread is going and hopefully others are learning just as much as I am. Sister Zulile, I know you are at a loss trying to translate concepts and thoughts of one culture into the words of another; it is an daunting task and I appreciate you rising up to challenge as much as possible. Many times it has been suggested to learn an African language for communication and cultural-centering purposes. I think it is all the more relevant now so we can perhaps experience a shifting of orientation and fully awaken with rebel music playing behind in the true language of liberation.

May we continue to explore this African based story, the Lion King, that has been twisted to suit Eurocentric tastes, mores and attitudes for mass consumption - as Sister Zulile reminds us. Y'all let's get into us. Thank you all.

Blackbird

In the spirit of exploring this further. I have a question. Which aspect of the Lion King can be attributed to those Africans who were not affected by the Slave trade be it their Ancestors or their descendants? could it be Simba's mother Sarabi or his childhood playmate Nana?

I suppose what I am asking is where do we, the Africans who were left behind, fit into the bigger picture?.

Thank you all

A.

In the spirit of exploring this further. I have a question. Which aspect of the Lion King can be attributed to those Africans who were not affected by the Slave trade be it their Ancestors or their descendants? could it be Simba's mother Sarabi or his childhood playmate Nana?

I suppose what I am asking is where do we, the Africans who were left behind, fit into the bigger picture?.

Thank you all

A.

You know that's interesting question. I take this one personally. Hopefully, this doesn't come off rude or crude, but I love African women. In the past, I've dated sisters from Nigeria, Kenya, Zimbabwe, the Cameroon, and Sierra Leone. Each one has had a seminal impact on me and my development. Presently, my wife is from Ghana and it is through her that I am returning home. We have three beautiful daughters. My wife has represented the completion to my resurrection. The role Africans play is the role of recognition and acceptance. We are One as the song goes in Lion King.

Blackbird

You know that's interesting question. I take this one personally. Hopefully, this doesn't come off rude or crude, but I love African women. In the past, I've dated sisters from Nigeria, Kenya, Zimbabwe, the Cameroon, and Sierra Leone. Each one has had a seminal impact on me and my development. Presently, my wife is from Ghana and it is through her that I am returning home. We have three beautiful daughters. My wife has represented the completion to my resurrection. The role Africans play is the role of recognition and acceptance. We are One as the song goes in Lion King.

Blackbird



Blackbird, it is good to hear that you have a good African woman who has acceptaed you enough to bear your children. It is rare to hear of a man who is considered African American, to be succesfully involoved with an African woman. It is usually the other way around, African men get involved with African American women a whole lot and in some cases the relationships are succesful but not largely. My aunt was married to a Nigerian who was Benin, she had 3 children for him and he was not good to her at all. I too, has had my share of African men, I dated two different men from Mali, two from Nigeria and one from South Africa. I personally felt at home with one of the guys from Mali and the South African. It is a long story as to why I am single at this time in my life but my point for brining this up is, it is rare that an African from the continent will accept African Americans but of course it goes both ways. African Americans don't trust each other and it seems like to me that on a whole, Africans and African Americans, don't trust each other as well and they use each other for what ever benfits they can get. When a relationship such as yours happens, that means a break through has occured and that means that you are one of the lucky ones. I am very happy for you Blackbird.




Astrologer4U

Blackbird, it is good to hear that you have a good African woman who has acceptaed you enough to bear your children. It is rare to hear of a man who is considered African American, to be succesfully involoved with an African woman. It is usually the other way around, African men get involved with African American women a whole lot and in some cases the relationships are succesful but not largely. My aunt was married to a Nigerian who was Benin, she had 3 children for him and he was not good to her at all. I too, has had my share of African men, I dated two different men from Mali, two from Nigeria and one from South Africa. I personally felt at home with one of the guys from Mali and the South African. It is a long story as to why I am single at this time in my life but my point for brining this up is, it is rare that an African from the continent will accept African Americans but of course it goes both ways. African Americans don't trust each other and it seems like to me that on a whole, Africans and African Americans, don't trust each other as well and they use each other for what ever benfits they can get. When a relationship such as yours happens, that means a break through has occured and that means that you are one of the lucky ones. I am very happy for you Blackbird.




Astrologer4U

Thank you, sister. My wife and I have been happily married for 6 years. I think there is alot of misunderstanding continental Africans and those of us in the Diaspora. We really don't know each other and we both bring many misconceptions and biases about each other. For myself, I believe it helped that my wife came to the States when she was 8 years old and because of that she has a few American tendencies.

I have been faced with my share of bigotry as an Akata person or Obruni. But in turn, I had to relief myself of my own bigotry. I felt alienated at my oldest daughter's outdooring and many people did not accept me. My wife's father was upset that we didn't marry the traditional way but that was because my wife only wanted to get married a certain way. Sometimes, people would talk about me to my face in Twi; however, my wife would stand up and defend me. I'm pretty much in the family now and my mother-in-law says I'm Ghanaian now. She knows I like peanut soup with fufu and tries to make it for me whenever I'm around. I like to eat kanke and watchee.

It's a struggle. Before we married, I would have dreams that my wife's ancestors and mine would fight and were against us marrying. Everything is cool now on the ancestral front. Our daughters are well adjusted and know they have cousins both in Louisiana and Africa. They like that fact.

My wife and I want to write a book called "Bad Blood" where we discuss the stereotypes and attitudes our people harbor about each other and discuss why it is not conducive for us because ultimately we need each other. One major theme I heard from some African people is that we (African Americans as we are called) pretend to be Africans without knowing anything about Africa and her people. I have seen this and can nominally agree. There is a need for much dialogue between our people.

While attending a Pan-African Student Leadership Conference in Mankato, MN, one Kenyan sister told me before we started dating, "I am from East Africa and you are West African." Her simple statement gave me a since of belonging and I could say internally, "You are right - I AM West African." It's my birthright apparent in phenotype eventhough I am part First Nation. Acceptance of each other and reconciliation is what is needed to bridge that gap and heal centuries old issues of distrust, abandonment and alienation.

African people are a beautiful people and African women can most beautiful women... In closing, at this conference, a speaker from northern Ghana said, "What Auset did for Ausar is help him re-member himself. She helped him put together his spearate pieces and reunify and in doing so, Ausar remembered who he was." Let's remember who we are!!!!!

Blackbird

It is not taboo to go back and fetch what you have forgot. We are One.....

Blackbird

1. @ akataa. I confess that I used to use this term with impunity until I learnt it meant ‘wild animal’ so to see an African American use it to describe himself is interesting. Do you find it offensive?


2. You dated a Kenyan? Nice. Incidentally, the other day you called me ‘young lady’ and I smiled dryly to myself thinking there is only a 4 year age gap between you and I so in another lifetime, we could be a couple lol.

3. The book sounds like a marvelous idea. You have plenty of material to work with because stereotypes abound. Case in point, there was a thread on Destee titled ‘On a mission to find a husband’ or somesuch. I was tempted to suggest that the poster look into dating African men but thought against it when I remembered an online discussion on an African American womenforum titled ‘Dating African men’. It ran over 350 pages long and the complaints seemed interminable and littered with the usual stereotypes - African men all have AIDS, or 10 wives, or questionable hygiene, or need tasering/restraining orders to leave you alone. Anyway the overall impression I was left with lined up with a conclusion that I came to a long time ago i.e. the relationships that work are those between African women and African American men. Never have I heard of a successful relationship between African American women and African men. Maybe that’s something you could explore in your book.

4. I agree with you Blackbird. Where successful such as in your case, I have no doubt that a lot of healing can come from African American and African relationships. I myself am on a quest to find an African American partner because of this very reason. That and the accent hehe. And the swagger. lol.


5. On a lighter note, my sister’s friend was in a shop here in the UK and was standing behind these two Nigerian men as they waited in line. She couldn’t help but eavesdropping on their conversation which was about Kenyan women – specifically Kikuyu women. One of the men was urging his friend to find and date one as a matter of urgency; going on to list the characteristics they possessed that made them so appealing (pretty, great figures, good homemakers and mothers, hardworking, ladylike, and for the less discerning gentleman there are those who knew how to have a good time; drank alcohol in quantities that could make fish envious, and were good in bed). She – being Kikuyu herself – started giggling at the absurdity of it all when suddenly the men turned to her and the first man said in a thick Nigerian accent ‘why are you laughing? Are you kookooyu? (couldn’t enunciate the word Kikuyu)’. Seeing the eager, hopeful look on his friend’s face, she gave a wide eyed innocent look and silently shook her head . ‘Yes you are’! he proclaimed accusingly ‘ you have a forehead like my Ciku’s (his girlfriend's name)’

Sadly, Kikuyu’s are known for their prominent foreheads.


A

Blackbird, it is good to hear that you have a good African woman who has acceptaed you enough to bear your children. It is rare to hear of a man who is considered African American, to be succesfully involoved with an African woman. It is usually the other way around, African men get involved with African American women a whole lot and in some cases the relationships are succesful but not largely. My aunt was married to a Nigerian who was Benin, she had 3 children for him and he was not good to her at all. I too, has had my share of African men, I dated two different men from Mali, two from Nigeria and one from South Africa. I personally felt at home with one of the guys from Mali and the South African. It is a long story as to why I am single at this time in my life but my point for brining this up is, it is rare that an African from the continent will accept African Americans but of course it goes both ways. African Americans don't trust each other and it seems like to me that on a whole, Africans and African Americans, don't trust each other as well and they use each other for what ever benfits they can get. When a relationship such as yours happens, that means a break through has occured and that means that you are one of the lucky ones. I am very happy for you Blackbird.




Astrologer4U

Lol. Interesting. Please read my post to see why I say this - what you consider rare, I consider common and vice versa! We must compare notes.
A

1. @ akataa. I confess that I used to use this term with impunity until I learnt it meant ‘wild animal’ so to see an African American use it to describe himself is interesting. Do you find it offensive?


2. You dated a Kenyan? Nice. Incidentally, the other day you called me ‘young lady’ and I smiled dryly to myself thinking there is only a 4 year age gap between you and I so in another lifetime, we could be a couple lol.

3. The book sounds like a marvelous idea. You have plenty of material to work with because stereotypes abound. Case in point, there was a thread on Destee titled ‘On a mission to find a husband’ or somesuch. I was tempted to suggest that the poster look into dating African men but thought against it when I remembered an online discussion on an African American womenforum titled ‘Dating African men’. It ran over 350 pages long and the complaints seemed interminable and littered with the usual stereotypes - African men all have AIDS, or 10 wives, or questionable hygiene, or need tasering/restraining orders to leave you alone. Anyway the overall impression I was left with lined up with a conclusion that I came to a long time ago i.e. the relationships that work are those between African women and African American men. Never have I heard of a successful relationship between African American women and African men. Maybe that’s something you could explore in your book.

4. I agree with you Blackbird. Where successful such as in your case, I have no doubt that a lot of healing can come from African American and African relationships. I myself am on a quest to find an African American partner because of this very reason. That and the accent hehe. And the swagger. lol.


5. On a lighter note, my sister’s friend was in a shop here in the UK and was standing behind these two Nigerian men as they waited in line. She couldn’t help but eavesdropping on their conversation which was about Kenyan women – specifically Kikuyu women. One of the men was urging his friend to find and date one as a matter of urgency; going on to list the characteristics they possessed that made them so appealing (pretty, great figures, good homemakers and mothers, hardworking, ladylike, and for the less discerning gentleman there are those who knew how to have a good time; drank alcohol in quantities that could make fish envious, and were good in bed). She – being Kikuyu herself – started giggling at the absurdity of it all when suddenly the men turned to her and the first man said in a thick Nigerian accent ‘why are you laughing? Are you kookooyu? (couldn’t enunciate the word Kikuyu)’. Seeing the eager, hopeful look on his friend’s face, she gave a wide eyed innocent look and silently shook her head . ‘Yes you are’! he proclaimed accusingly ‘ you have a forehead like my Ciku’s (his girlfriend's name)’

Sadly, Kikuyu’s are known for their prominent foreheads.


A

Sister A,

Hujambo, Let me say I think Kenyan women are some of the most beautiful women I've ever seen. Besides I like their energy. I've spent my company with some really cool Kenyan sisters in my day and Kenyan people in general. I find that East African people are more patient and accomodating than West African people. I have a good friend from Tanzania and when I kick it with him and his fellow countrymen, I feel right at home.

Akaata... My wife used to use when speaking with her mother, but I've noticed that trend decreased over time. I know some Nigerians use the term "eranko", as well.

Yes, stereotypes abound in our interactions and it is most unfortunate because we need each other sometimes more than we realize. There is much we can learn from each other. By divine grace, we both have been endowed with particular strengths than the other needs to be effective.

I wish you luck on your quest. I know some strong African-American men who love African women just as much I; however, they are all married now. Keep looking there are still some brothers out there for you and who looking for you.

I think Sister Astrologer is speaking from a more historical relationship arrangement than what is currently the case. African men have long been in the United States as students and traveling professionals, many times leaving their wives or families behind to better themselves abroad and it is through this backdrop that most African-Americans have had their experiences with continental Africans. Sadly, these earlier experiences helped to forge certain beliefs and attitudes about African people in general and African men in particular. As time continues, African women are extending their interactions with African-Americans and asserting a degree of autonomy than what has been previously witnessed. I think it's a beautiful thing whenever we meet and marry, thus completing the circle and reuniting the two spearate mega-lineages. We are living in truly remarkable times for African people. We are not on the decline but growing in strength and we will continue to grow if we remember we must we accept US. Simba is returning back to the pride and he has chosen Nala to reign over the domain together as one united show of royalty.

Blackbird

For myself, I believe it helped that my wife came to the States when she was 8 years old and because of that she has a few American tendencies.

Maybe so, maybe not. I know of some Africans who have been in American and they can tolerate only specific kinds of African Americans. I once heard an African woman who has been away from Africa longer than your wife say that she liked the African Americans from the South, better than the other African Americans. I tend to agree with her on that one, when it comes down to choosing a long term and family oriented partner, the Southern African American, tends towards having the best habits. Isn't that something that such a destinction could be derived? I think it has something to do with roots. Most of our African ancestors if not all of them, ported into and laid down a foundation in the South first, before they migrated to other parts of America. So, I think out of the enitre America, the South has the abundance of African Roots.

I have been faced with my share of bigotry as an Akata person or Obruni. But in turn, I had to relief myself of my own bigotry. I felt alienated at my oldest daughter's outdooring and many people did not accept me. My wife's father was upset that we didn't marry the traditional way but that was because my wife only wanted to get married a certain way. Sometimes, people would talk about me to my face in Twi; however, my wife would stand up and defend me. I'm pretty much in the family now and my mother-in-law says I'm Ghanaian now. She knows I like peanut soup with fufu and tries to make it for me whenever I'm around. I like to eat kanke and watchee.

Thanks for the sharing your your experiences, glad to hear that you are now a Ghanaian... who acknowldges his native American and African American roots... hehehe


My wife and I want to write a book called "Bad Blood" where we discuss the stereotypes and attitudes our people harbor about each other and discuss why it is not conducive for us because ultimately we need each other. One major theme I heard from some African people is that we (African Americans as we are called) pretend to be Africans without knowing anything about Africa and her people. I have seen this and can nominally agree. There is a need for much dialogue between our people.

You two should go for writing that book, it is a book that is needed. You could even have your wife, if she still speaks the language and your Kenyan friends, interpret the book and write it in their language so that the book can also be read by other Africans in the mother land.


Astrologer4U

Lol. Interesting. Please read my post to see why I say this - what you consider rare, I consider common and vice versa! We must compare notes.
A


I read your post and I just don't see that often, I would like to though. I usually see the African men with African American woman, they even did a movie about it, did you see Phat Girlz? That movie was really good, I liked it. That will be the day that a movie is made showing an African American man, with an African woman. Where are you at that you see more African American men with African women?



Astrologer4U

Hujambo...Uhali gani Ndugu? Sijambo asante na wewe.This was a most interesting thread here and I do have feedback on this. 95% of my friends are "continental Africans"....there is no such thing as an African American since the country was named after Amerigo Vespucie. My friends from Ghana, Nigeria, Togo, the Congo, Ethiopia and Senegal all have issues. We in the western world were stripped and brainwashed and they were colonized. They, because they didn't lose their language, dress, diet perhaps and their physical land, had the tendency to feel as if they had not lost anything but they did. Their land, their education and many religious thoughts are clearly the result of foreign imposition.

Mind you, we as African People have been at war for over 3000 years easily and the last 2500 years have been horrible beyond measure. As such, we have been "modified" by outside value systems. The longest unspoken slave trade has been Islamic/Arab and we haven't even addressed that yet. So when I run into my African brothers and sisters from the continent who are muslim per se, I already know I have a wall to break through. This is why I have focused much of my studies about us on the "time period before we were ever invaded by anyone. Only then do I see a clear picture of who we are, how we treated each other, our women and children. Only then do I see how and what we did or did not do. Only then do I begin to understand what we lost, how we lost it and when.

Correct me if I am wrong but in the original Lion King "Simba was a white Lion"....which is also one of the reasons Mufasa wanted to do him. The fact that Simba was a white lion correlated with "white people who essentially had LOST THEIR WAY or Forgot"....more on this later also.
My name is keita and as you know, my name comes from Mali. It was "only from the Keita Clan that a King could be chosen". Because i am building my site it is difficult for me to spend time right now in two places but I'll be reading you....I like your spirit and perception.

Maybe so, maybe not. I know of some Africans who have been in American and they can tolerate only specific kinds of African Americans. I once heard an African woman who has been away from Africa longer than your wife say that she liked the African Americans from the South, better than the other African Americans. I tend to agree with her on that one, when it comes down to choosing a long term and family oriented partner, the Southern African American, tends towards having the best habits. Isn't that something that such a destinction could be derived? I think it has something to do with roots. Most of our African ancestors if not all of them, ported into and laid down a foundation in the South first, before they migrated to other parts of America. So, I think out of the enitre America, the South has the abundance of African Roots.



Thanks for the sharing your your experiences, glad to hear that you are now a Ghanaian... who acknowldges his native American and African American roots... hehehe




You two should go for writing that book, it is a book that is needed. You could even have your wife, if she still speaks the language and your Kenyan friends, interpret the book and write it in their language so that the book can also be read by other Africans in the mother land.


Astrologer4U

Sister,

As a Black person from the South, I will tell you ain't nothing like the South in regards to the United States. Bro. KS and I talk about this all the time. I do think the African element was preserved in the American South stronger than anywhere else in the United States because our overall interactions with white people has been less. Where I see Black people being influenced by white people more in other parts of the country, I think white people in the South were influenced by us more. It's not uncommon, honestly speaking, to find white people down that eat okra, black-eyed peas, rice and candied yams. All of these things are either African foods or African-inspired foods. So white people have been known to cook these types of food and offer them to a mourning Black family during their bereavement.

Hey, I take it that I am recognized as one of the family and my extended family goes to kinship with Ghanaian people. Eventhough, I still speak Nʉmʉ tekwapu (Comanche) words with my father, eat my frybread, Indian tacos, corn soup and bison occasionally. I still dance at powwows and perform certain rituals native to my paternal family's traditions. And of course, I'm Black through and through... ya dig.

Blackbird

Hujambo...Uhali gani Ndugu? Sijambo asante na wewe.This was a most interesting thread here and I do have feedback on this. 95% of my friends are "continental Africans"....there is no such thing as an African American since the country was named after Amerigo Vespucie. My friends from Ghana, Nigeria, Togo, the Congo, Ethiopia all Senegal all have issues. We in the western world were stripped and brainwashed and they were colonized. They, because they didn't lose their language, dress, diet perhaps and their physical land, had the tendency to feel as if they had not lost anything but they did. Their land, their education and many religious thoughts are clearly the result of foreign imposition.

Mind you, we as African People have been at war for over 3000 years easily and the last 2500 years have been horrible beyond measure. As such, we have been "modified" by outside value systems. The longest unspoken slave trade has been Islamic/Arab and we haven't even addressed that yet. So when I run into my African brothers and sisters from the continent who are muslim per se, I already know I have a wall to break through. This is why I have focused much of my studies about us on the "time period before we were ever invaded by anyone. Only then do I see a clear picture of who we are, how we treated each other, our women and children. Only then do I see how and what we did or did not do. Only then do I begin to understand what we lost, how we lost it and when.

Correct me if I am wrong but in the original Lion King "Simba was a white Lion"....which is also one of the reasons Mufasa wanted to do him. The fact that Simba was a white lion correlated with "white people who essentially had LOST THEIR WAY or Forgot"....more on this later also.
My name is keita and as you know, my name comes from Mali. It was "only from the Keita Clan that a King could be chosen". Because i am building my site it is difficult for me to spend time right now in two places but I'll be reading you....I like your spirit and perception.

Brother,

You brought up a few interesting and valid points. One was the colonization of Africa by European imperialists and before that by Muslim Arab imperialists. Thank you bringing this up. We will need to address this fact before we can move forward and that includes African people. The effects of European imperialism is evident in the Nollywood movies which many end with "Giving Praise to our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ." Now just how did that end up in a Nigerian movie? I noticed one of the themes of some Nollywood movies is the battle of the praying minister and righteous family against the evil family member and the juju priest. Guess who overcomes in the end?

When my oldest daughter was born, there was a naming ceremony for her. The respected elder of the local Ghanaian community came to officiate. He is respected for his knowledge of cultural and historical matters. They had the gin and water. He concluded the ceremony by admonishing my infant daughter to always choose the purity of water and Jesus Christ over anything else. Hmmm....

So much to discuss... I hope we have time.

Blackbird

Sister,

As a Black person from the South, I will tell you ain't nothing like the South in regards to the United States. Bro. KS and I talk about this all the time. I do think the African element was preserved in the American South stronger than anywhere else in the United States because our overall interactions with white people has been less. Where I see Black people being influenced by white people more in other parts of the country, I think white people in the South were influenced by us more. It's not uncommon, honestly speaking, to find white people down that eat okra, black-eyed peas, rice and candied yams. All of these things are either African foods or African-inspired foods. So white people have been known to cook these types of food and offer them to a mourning Black family during their bereavement.

When I was in New Orleans, it was white peopel trying to tell me about Okra and Gumbo, I was like what, do they think they gotta tell me something about the food my people created? But now I see why that was the case. They knew that I was not from the South because of my accent but what they don't sem to understand is, my people migrated from the South. My mother was born in New Orleans. I have always known what Pralines, Gumbo, Okra, Red Beans and so forth, I am very familiar with all those things and more, coming from the South. My fathers side are from Alabama so I got the South going on big time. However, being that I was born and raised in the Northern parts of California, I am a fast mover, I don't move slow at all. However, I can adjust... hehehe I saw a lot of property for sell in New Orleans... LOL Not, I love New Orleans but I don't know if I could live there. I could see New Orleans being a place that I would retire to though.


Hey, I take it that I am recognized as one of the family and my extended family goes to kinship with Ghanaian people. Eventhough, I still speak Nʉmʉ tekwapu (Comanche) words with my father, eat my frybread, Indian tacos, corn soup and bison occasionally. I still dance at powwows and perform certain rituals native to my paternal family's traditions. And of course, I'm Black through and through... ya dig.


haha, I do dig...



Astrologer4U

Elder Keita,

That was a really good attempt!. I must confess that growing up in the ‘burbs among Expats and some-such, speaking Swahili was discouraged and only the workers spoke it. Regretfully, I neglected to learn my own dialect but I am slowly learning how to speak both as well as West African Pidgin. This brings me neatly to my point. Jambo is a form of Swahili pidgin and when spoken out-loud in Kenya, is to thieves what red is to a Bull. This is then quickly followed by a tour of the city’s numerous ATM’s.

The more common salutation is Habari yako?. It more or less translates into ‘what’s going on with you?’. However, seeing as you are an Elder in my eyes, this wouldn’t be appropriate and I would opt for a more formal ‘Shikamo’ to which you would reply ‘Marahaba’ and then we would probably go on to ‘Habari ya asubuhi (what’s the news this morning to mean, how are you this morning) etc etc.

You are quite right! Africans still struggle with the effects of colonialism in the same way that African Americans do with Slavery. I must admit, I have never considered this before and will challenge my African friends, the next time they say something negative about AA’s.

Was Simba white? In which case, this revelation changes the whole discussion. I wonder though if Disney didn’t do that deliberately to make the film more palatable to the subconscious minds of white people. Case in point, people were overjoyed with the news that Disney was going to be releasing its first ever full length animation film about a Black Princess.

http://www.goodyblog.com/playing_house/images/2007/03/21/frog_princess_maddy.jpg

This joy was short-lived when people noticed the Prince looked less like Idris Elba and more like a younger Antonio Banderas.

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.blackvoices.com/blogs/media/2009/03/princess-and-the-frog-450a031909.jpg

Wonder if I will live to see a Disney film about a Black Prince and a White Princess.

Ha.

Anyway, I think your theory holds more water and look forward to reading more.

Good luck with your site and thank ye for the kind words re: my spirit and perception.Alexandra

I read your post and I just don't see that often, I would like to though. I usually see the African men with African American woman, they even did a movie about it, did you see Phat Girlz? That movie was really good, I liked it. That will be the day that a movie is made showing an African American man, with an African woman. Where are you at that you see more African American men with African women?



Astrologer4U

A4U,
I am based in the UK but most of my peers (all of them male I should add) are based in the States and I usually get to hear about their dating experiences as well as their observations. I should make it clear that I am referring to people between the ages of 28 and 35, well educated, and considered working middle class. I think this has a huge bearing on the dynamics. African woman who have higher education (Masters, Phd), doing well in their careers tend to feel stifled by African men who feel threatened by their success. I recall hearing that Kenyan men were frustrated by the lack of women looking to settle down. Most of them they claimed were too busy pursuing education and careers to think about settling down. African American men seem to have no issues with this and actually prefer women who are independent as well as successful.

I have not seen that film Phat Girlz, but I shall be sure to check it out. I did watch The Diary of a Tired Black Man and found that interesting.

That will be the day that a movie is made showing an African American man, with an African woman.

That incomprehensible is it? If the current trend is any guide, it should not be too long :).

A

I gave thought to your words in Swahili and found it interesting. More interesting is that I have discovered that swahili, like spanish and other languages also comes in dialects. Upland swahili is different than downland...much like the spanish words spoken by Mexicans is not the same as that spoken by Puerto Ricans or the people from Spain. Now in all honesty, if I were to intensely learn an African language it would be Yoruba or Twi and the reason is because I understand Kiswahili to be a "trade language" highly influenced and infused with Arabic that basically came into being when the Arabs was doing our people all up and down the East coast of Africa. Your mention of being taken straight to the ATM was funny and most likely true after speaking with my friends from there. :laugh:

Your remarks in terms of Disney is thought worthy also as I learned at some point that many of the so call fairy tales we learned as children were actually adulterated versions of an African story. As you can see and as I stated earlier, there is so much to recover, reclaim and to restore . We need to face the fact that as the mothers and fathers of all the people on this planet that we have a responsibility to get the house in order. Like all parents who are sleeping, the children have just run wild in the house....and like all parents who wake up just to see what their children have done while they were sleeping...they clean up and get everything right. Well we are those parents and our children have just ran through this planet tearing up everything. We got a job to do!

A4U,
I am based in the UK but most of my peers (all of them male I should add) are based in the States and I usually get to hear about their dating experiences as well as their observations. I should make it clear that I am referring to people between the ages of 28 and 35, well educated, and considered working middle class. I think this has a huge bearing on the dynamics. African woman who have higher education (Masters, Phd), doing well in their careers tend to feel stifled by African men who feel threatened by their success.

That seems to be the same way amongst African American men and woman. A lot of African American men have issues with African American women who are are more educated and financially stable than them. There are a few however, who don't mind at all. It takes a heck of a man or woman to look beyond money and education in order to establish a relationship based on love and repsect. The relationship does not have to be a romantic relationship either, I am talking relationships between black people period...

I recall hearing that Kenyan men were frustrated by the lack of women looking to settle down. Most of them they claimed were too busy pursuing education and careers to think about settling down. African American men seem to have no issues with this and actually prefer women who are independent as well as successful.


It seems like you are discribing a thing of bachelor an bachelorette. I am not saying that African American men don't date African women but when it comes down to it, I just don't see them ending up married, I see it more the othe way around, African men, married to African American women.


I have not seen that film Phat Girlz, but I shall be sure to check it out. I did watch The Diary of a Tired Black Man and found that interesting.


Here is a trailer, I think this particular sound track song for the movie, is by 2face Idibia, you have probably heard of it...

kLr8QBbaEzs




That incomprehensible is it? If the current trend is any guide, it should not be too long :).

I can't wait...


Are you African born? If so, have you ever been to America and if the answer is yes, have you ever dated an African American or considered marrying one?



Astrologer4U

That seems to be the same way amongst African American men and woman. A lot of African American men have issues with African American women who are are more educated and financially stable than them. There are a few however, who don't mind at all. It takes a heck of a man or woman to look beyond money and education in order to establish a relationship based on love and repsect. The relationship does not have to be a romantic relationship either, I am talking relationships between black people period...




It seems like you are discribing a thing of bachelor an bachelorette. I am not saying that African American men don't date African women but when it comes down to it, I just don't see them ending up married, I see it more the othe way around, African men, married to African American women.





Here is a trailer, I think this particular sound track song for the movie, is by 2face Idibia, you have probably heard of it...

kLr8QBbaEzs






I can't wait...






Astrologer4U

Are you African born? If so, have you ever been to America and if the answer is yes, have you ever dated an African American or considered marrying one?

I was born in Kenya, and spent my formative years there before moving to the UK to continue my education which is still in progress. I have dual citizenship so can continue to live here if I so choose, but I will not. I have been to the US before, but did not have that much interaction with AA's.

In answer to your last question, I have dated an AA, but this was in the UK where he was working. I do not believe in marriage, nor do I intend to have children so if I can meet an AA who shares these and other fundamental beliefs (and I have not had much success so far), then I would happily share my life with said man. I cannot say the same about African men, or indeed men of other races.


I have indeed heard of that song. I actually put up the video a few days ago in response to one of Metasaience's post. Have you ever wondered wondered what 'Munyemo' means?

I love you, Munyemo, I love you, I love you, ooohhh yeah, my African Queen

I haven't been able to find out but would love to know.


It seems like you are discribing a thing of bachelor an bachelorette. I am not saying that African American men don't date African women but when it comes down to it, I just don't see them ending up married, I see it more the othe way around, African men, married to African American women.

Not at all. I am referring to a 'normal' woman, ie with the same aspirations as any other woman her age; to one day settle down and start a family. Maybe we will have to agree to disagree on this one because for whatever unknown reason, we are experiencing entirely different realities despite having the same players operating in the same environment.

That seems to be the same way amongst African American men and woman. A lot of African American men have issues with African American women who are are more educated and financially stable than them. There are a few however, who don't mind at all. It takes a heck of a man or woman to look beyond money and education in order to establish a relationship based on love and repsect. The relationship does not have to be a romantic relationship either, I am talking relationships between black people period...

I am sure there are, but in the case of African men, what they seem to take offense to is the attempt by African women to have what their mother's did not. Security and a sense of achievement. Oft times, our mothers left their father's home wearing the clothes that he bought them over their lifetime, and went straight on to wearing the clothes their husbands bought them. They were almost like property exchanging hands without having any say in the matter. We can chop this many different ways but it boils down to control. Whether the same can be said of AA is doubtful.

Besides, when it comes to romance, I think AA men outdo their African counterparts. You have dated both, what were your experiences in terms of the romantic factor (inc sex. teehee)?


Just my two cents.

A

Not to digress for the originating thought precipitating this thread, which is identifying certain relevant African concepts within Lion King, I will add that my wife said she told herself she would never marry an African man. I notice the unusual relationship her parents have and we both agree, my wife and I, that it is dysfunctional - her father is a womanizer and domineering figure, whereas her mother lacks both confidence and self-esteem. Her mother works three jobs and he works only one. They split the rent and everything else - but, dig it, they have separate accounts and no joint one. He father goes to Ghana every year, regardless of what's going at home, to satisfy his flings. He spends all of his vacation time for the year - away from his family in America and his wife to be with as many as 10 different women my wife's age. His wife is stressed and is now suffering from health problems because she works around the clock to make sure the bills are paid. We pay for my wife's younger sisters' cell phone bills. Her father said it was my wife's job to do so. He won't pay it.

Her mother wants to finish her education in nursing and become a nurse, but her father is against it and has always been against it.

But... moving forward.... I would like to discuss the recurring idea of an ancestral soul and its relation to psychological disturbances within an individual separated from it.

Blackbird

Not to digress for the originating thought precipitating this thread, which is identifying certain relevant African concepts within Lion King, I will add that my wife said she told herself she would never marry an African man. I notice the unusual relationship her parents have and we both agree, my wife and I, that it is dysfunctional - her father is a womanizer and domineering figure, whereas her mother lacks both confidence and self-esteem. Her mother works three jobs and he works only one. They split the rent and everything else - but, dig it, they have separate accounts and no joint one. He father goes to Ghana every year, regardless of what's going at home, to satisfy his flings. He spends all of his vacation time for the year - away from his family in America and his wife to be with as many as 10 different women my wife's age. His wife is stressed and is now suffering from health problems because she works around the clock to make sure the bills are paid. We pay for my wife's younger sisters' cell phone bills. Her father said it was my wife's job to do so. He won't pay it.

Her mother wants to finish her education in nursing and become a nurse, but her father is against it and has always been against it.

But... moving forward.... I would like to discuss the recurring idea of an ancestral soul and its relation to psychological disturbances within an individual separated from it.

Blackbird

Apologies to all for the digression and I hate to contradict myself and do this, but I really must ask Blackbird; in such a scenario, which by the way is more or less the norm among our mothers’ generation. Is it logical to expect such Fathers to become spiritual compasses chartering the course of our destiny when they transition? If Scar had been Simba’s father instead of the noble Musafa, wouldn’t it have been a different tale?

A

Apologies to all for the digression and I hate to contradict myself and do this, but I really must ask Blackbird; in such a scenario, which by the way is more or less the norm among our mothers’ generation. Is it logical to expect such Fathers to become spiritual compasses chartering the course of our destiny when they transition? If Scar had been Simba’s father instead of the noble Musafa, wouldn’t it have been a different tale?

A



Alexandra,

Mmmm.... that's a good question. Honestly, I don't have reponse that would be adequate enough to fulfill your question. Perhaps someone can offer some advice in that direction.

As so far as fathers being the spiritual compass, I will say some groups espouse this belief but it's not something that is consistent. I can only speak from experience. I am of Vodou from my paternal lineage. However, I had a dream once when I was just beginning to practice rootwork where 5 generations of women taught me rootwork, passed the family tradition to me and jotted down many things in a "book" which was written in my heart. The symbolism is rootwork is a part of my blood and I inherited it from the women of my family. Now I did have one dream where a Vodun priestess had just initiated me and was teaching me things in a house. She told me that I needed to learn as quickly as possible because there were people waiting on me. The house, which I thought was hers, she told me was my house and I have a line of people waiting to enter into my house.

As a person of Comanche descent, I know they believed each their own. The father's role was no more the spiritual compass than the woman.

Blackbird

Alexandra,

Mmmm.... that's a good question. Honestly, I don't have reponse that would be adequate enough to fulfill your question. Perhaps someone can offer some advice in that direction.

As so far as fathers being the spiritual compass, I will say some groups espouse this belief but it's not something that is consistent. I can only speak from experience. I am of Vodou from my paternal lineage. However, I had a dream once when I was just beginning to practice rootwork where 5 generations of women taught me rootwork, passed the family tradition to me and jotted down many things in a "book" which was written in my heart. The symbolism is rootwork is a part of my blood and I inherited it from the women of my family. Now I did have one dream where a Vodun priestess had just initiated me and was teaching me things in a house. She told me that I needed to learn as quickly as possible because there were people waiting on me. The house, which I thought was hers, she told me was my house and I have a line of people waiting to enter into my house.

As a person of Comanche descent, I know they believed each their own. The father's role was no more the spiritual compass than the woman.

Blackbird


Thank you for this Brother B, and I wish you well in the future with your house.

But back to the post at hand.

But... moving forward.... I would like to discuss the recurring idea of an ancestral soul and its relation to psychological disturbances within an individual separated from it.

Are we speaking generally? I ask because I tried to look for examples of avderse effects on the pyschology of Simba and the only examples I could find were in relation to his guilt over his father's death.

Cheers,
A

Thank you for this Brother B, and I wish you well in the future with your house.

But back to the post at hand.



Are we speaking generally? I ask because I tried to look for examples of avderse effects on the pyschology of Simba and the only examples I could find were in relation to his guilt over his father's death.

Cheers,
A

Sister A,

My apologies for taking so long. I have been very busy. You can ask Bro. KS, I be having 99 different things to do everyday. It's crazy.

I was at this moment speaking generally based on my elementary understanding of the "ancestral soul" in a few African spiritual traditions. They all associate a lack of connection to one's ancestral soul as a possible reason for mental and emotional disturbances.

I wanted to advance this discussion and see what others think about this and what the implications of such an event really mean.

Blackbird

I am still waiting on us to go further in this thread as well. Blackbird, you said you were going to come back to my post. I know you have been busy but just reminding you, that's all.



Astrologer4U

I am still waiting on us to go further in this thread as well. Blackbird, you said you were going to come back to my post. I know you have been busy but just reminding you, that's all.



Astrologer4U

You gone hafta refresh my memory... Sorry. I'm not a cosmic male. I'm just a man.

Blackbird

You gone hafta refresh my memory... Sorry. I'm not a cosmic male. I'm just a man.

Blackbird

Lol. Well played sir. Well played indeed.

Also, Elder Blackbird, you never did reveal your interpretation of Timon and Pmbaa’s role film.

A

Lol. Well played sir. Well played indeed.

Also, Elder Blackbird, you never did reveal your interpretation of Timon and Pmbaa’s role film.

A

Hated to leave ya hanging, ya dig. Initially I thought I responded to your post, but I see I never did. I beg your pardon.

Me no elder.... If i was the world would be in trouble because I can't even walk straight - how's that for someone with no direction in life? Find some one to top me and I will top them when it comes to misguided.

But anyways.... I see Timon and Pumbaa as guides placed by Simba's ancestors. They were to teach humility and acceptance of life's situations. Once we can accept the circumstances in life, we create an environment for power. Notice I said accept, not be complacent. We can focus on the problem and began to resolve the issue better than if our mind is cluttered without non-acceptance.

They also were there to help Simba face his destiny.

Blackbird

Another Vodun concept expressed in Lion King was the concept of the "stars" with "ancestorship" and "soul habitation".

Of particular note is the important role, Rafiki the monkey-priest/ess plays in Simba's reconnection to his ancestors and resurrection in full kinghood. The Ifa Odu Oturupon Meji speaks of the role the diviner priest and propitation of the ancestors have in one attaining a good life. Throughout Africa, various societies speak about the connection paying proper homage to one's ancestors has one one's life and well-being. The Dagara people of northern Ghana and the Bamana people of southeastern Mali discuss how losing a connection with one's ancestral soul by removing one's ancestral culture impacts the psychological and social health of a person. These societies forewarn of restlessness, intense anger, mental illness and overall apathy that can be discovered in a disconnected person separated from his sie or dya. In Vodun, it is the kpoli, an aspect of an individual's soul composition that is located in the stars and serves as a union point of their destiny and ancestral lineage.

Let's go deeper.

Blackbird

Please speak more on this, thats one thing I have a high interest in, reconnecting with my star... I heard mine likes baby blue....

Lion and Leopard Societies:

http://www.taerian.com/Articles.html

The leopard and lion societies of Africa (as well as other animal societies) are steeped in mystery and are jealously guarded by the secret society systems. The secret societies are the custodians of the martial sciences. They hold the power within the culture to protect the greater society and to train the young boy in the art of responsibility.

Human leopards are those men who through initiations are brought into the realm of animal powers. The sacred stories, dances, ritual exercises and spiritual medicines blend together to bring the human into the realm of animal consciousness.

These animal societies predate the colonial period butt were gathered to fight the encroachment of European colonialism. This was a time of persecution and unfounded accusations by various European governors of cannibalism and murder. It is not uncommon for freedom fighters throughout the world to be smeared by governmental powers, and so it was with the animal societies.

These men of power actually became the animal. They lived in the body of a leopard, lion or baboon. They abided by a strict code of secrecy and under penalty of death, would not reveal the secrets of the brotherhood which involved secret signs and passwords, ritual symbology and special languages.. One could speak to another leopard brother and convey messages and still have another meaning to the ears of those who were not a part of the secret society.

This language that was inside the greater society-yet seperate-involved animal calls, ritual urination and a host of other physical standards which served to bind the group.

Sacred clothing was sometimes used along with traditional weapons, such as claws and special knives. These items would be used to eliminate certain people who were opposed to the society as a whole. The human leopard would be so animal –like that it was very hard to distinguish its work from that of an actual leopard. When someone of the leopard society was sent on a mission, they would leave tracks and wounds appearing to be the result of leopard claws and teeth. Animal attributes were used in every day life to help bind the greater society to its subunits.

Reinvigorated....

The importance of the ancestors to an individual's well-being and constitution is almost a immutable fact for many African peoples. In order for one to have a good life, it is said one must be in balance with one's ancestors. At one time, I was out of balance with my ancestors and I had a block in place. During those times, nothing went right. I was homeless, broke and suicidal. Life held no meaning for me. I had haunting nightmares where "ghosts" would walk in my dreams. One of my ancestresses appeared with spots and another one, whom loved me in life, held a dagger in her hand as I torn apart mutli-colored necklace, consecrated to my ancestors, (an act I actually did in real life) and spilled the beads on the floor because I felt they had abandoned me. Blind to me, it was I who had abandoned them.

Many people are going through life and experiencing hardship after hardship. It could be possible that they are just out of sync with their folks. This is a lesson of Lion King, on one level. The song "They Live in You" eludes to this "truth." The power of the ancestors is a power we all can harness if we recognize that they live in us, pay homage and realize no mountain is too great because of many thousands of years of collected Se that is within our veins. At one point, I was listening to songs sung for the Ghede on CD at my godfather's house a few years back and immediately I was transported to a long ago land. There I sensed I had lived before and knew certain things. Was it the I that was I or was it the I that is now we? We have a spiritual constitution formed from spirits around us, in our spiritual quadrant (frame). These spirits can be genetic relatives, spirits attracted to us due to certain things and those we voluntarily acquire through life. It has been my experience that the spirits most powerful in our frames, the ones that organize all the others and speaks for them are the blood relatives (ancestors). My own personal take is part of what makes you "you" is composed of those ancestors that are the most attached to "you". They impart certain knowledge and awareness based on their experiences and their memories, similar to certain experiences we may presently being living, create the deja vu effect.

I'm just shooting off....

Tuhwi

Read the above to start this thread again....
Tuhwi