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The Difference Between the Religion of Islam and the Nation of Islam

Aqil

11-30-2001, 08:17 AM

By Mustafa El-Amin

It is essential that the American people in general – and African-Americans in particular – know and realize that there are very clear differences in the teachings of the religion of Islam and the teachings of the Nation of Islam (NOI). In order for people to make an accurate and clear judgment or decision about anyone or anything, it is always best for them to have as much correct information as possible...

For about fifty years the teachings of the NOI was the dominant message in America concerning Islam and Muslims. Most people, particularly African-Americans, saw the teachings of the NOI as the “pure message” of Islam. However, upon the death of Elijah Muhammad in 1975 and the assuming of the organization's leadership by his son Wallace – who is now Imam Abdul Warithudin Muhammad – the old message of the NOI began to fade away and a new message and teaching came into existence.

The new message was based on the Holy Qur’an (Muslim holy book) and the sunnah of Prophet Muhammad ibn Abdullah (saw), the last Messenger of Allah (swt). It is not a completely new message or teaching in the sense that it has never been taught or heard in the world before; but it was called “new” because it was new to the ears of the members of the NOI. They never heard the pure and true teachings of Islam before...

The majority of the members of the former NOI were able to grasp the new message, and have changed and accepted the religion of Islam as it is practiced by over 1.5 billion Muslims the world over. However, the majority of the American people still have not had the same opportunity to hear the clear message of the Islamic religion, and most African-Americans are still deprived and denied the opportunity to hear the true teachings of Islam...

The Concept of God According to the Religion of Islam

“It is Allah who is God in Heaven and God on Earth, and He is full of wisdom and knowledge.” (Sura 43:84)

Allah (God), according to the religion of Islam, is the Creator of the Heavens and the Earth. He is in total charge of the entire creation. He has no beginning or ending. He was never born and will never die. He has always been in existence. Allah (God) is not a physical being. The Qur’an says, “No vision can grasp Him, but His grasp is over all vision and He is above total comprehension, yet He is well acquainted with all things.” The Qur’an also states: “Say He is Allah, the one and only; God the eternal, absolute; He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; and there is none like unto Him.” (Sura 112)

The religion of Islam teaches that Allah (God) is one and He has no sons or daughters. He is neither male nor female. He is the source of human life and gender. He just says, “Be” and it is. Allah (God) is responsible for the creation of every human being. He created all colors and made our features beautiful...

The concept of God in the religion of Islam is an extremely vast and important concept. Perhaps the most important aspect of Islam is the belief in the Oneness (tauhid) of God. This is very different from the beliefs and teachings of the Nation of Islam.

The Concept of God According to the Nation of Islam

“God is a man and we just cannot make Him other than a man, lest we make Him an inferior one; for man's intelligence has no equal in other than man.” (Elijah Muhammad, Message to the Black Man, p.6)

The God of the Nation of Islam is called "Master Fard Muhammad," an Arab who was born in Mecca, Saudi Arabia on February 26, 1877. “We believe that Allah (God) came in the person of Master Fard Muhammad on July 4, 1930,” it says in The Final Call newspaper. On p. 11 of Elijah Muhammad’s bookThe Supreme Wisdom: Solution to the So-called Negro’s Problem, it states that “Allah came to us from the Holy City of Mecca in 1930.” And on p.67 of his book Our Savior Has Arrived, there is the following statement: “The Muslims worship one God, Allah. ‘Say: He (Allah) is one God.’ Yet 99% of the Old World Muslims think that Allah is only a spirit and is not a man.”

According to the teachings of the NOI there were several gods from the beginning of time. They teach that these gods live and die and pass their knowledge and godship from one to another. They teach that God is a man and He always was a man, and that the First God created Himself from and out of total triple darkness (!)

The NOI also teaches that the Black man is God. They believe that one god created the Moon and another one created the Sun, stars, and the Earth. According to their teachings, about 70 trillion years ago one of the Black gods got angry and tried to destroy the Earth with “high explosives.” He was unsuccessful in his attempt to destroy the entire Earth, but he did blow it in half. The part that was separated was the Moon. (If you have any doubts about this read Message to the Black Man, or ask any minister of the NOI.)...

The God of the Nation of Islam marries, has sex, eats food and makes mistakes; he is a human being. They teach that one of the gods, named “Alfonso,” went to Europe and married a pure white woman who gave birth to a daughter, which was a mistake. The lesson says the god "Alfonso" said, “Oops, we missed that time.” He wanted a son, so he tried again and they had a son. This son inherited the godship. He was half Black and half white.

The NOI knows this son of the god "Alfonso" as W. Fard Muhammad. They teach that God manifested himself in Fard Muhammad, a Caucasian-looking Arab man. He came to America to seek and to save the African- American people. This man, Fard Muhammad – according to the teachings of the NOI – has the power to control the Heavens and the Earth, wind, hail, snow and rain...

The God of the NOI is not an eternal being. He dies and his wisdom “only lives 25,000 years.” According to their teachings the world is in the 25,000-year cycle of Fard Muhammad’s wisdom. In fact, he is supposed to be the greatest and wisest god to have ever lived. He looks like a Caucasian; his mother was a Caucasian woman from the hills of Europe. (According to Fard, there was another Black god – a scientist named “Yakub” who created the white man some 6,000 years ago.)

As you can clearly see, the concept of God in the religion of Islam is extremely different from that of the Nation of Islam. Over 1.5 billion Muslims believe and accept the concept of God as it is presented in the religion of Islam and the Holy Qur’an. Only a few thousand believe and accept the concept of God as it is presented by the NOI. In the religion of Islam Allah (God), the Creator of the Heavens and the Earth, is eternal. The entire creation is His kingdom.

The God of the NOI is not eternal; his life is short-lived. In fact, I understand that the so-called leader of the NOI, Minister Louis Farrakhan, is attempting to change their Master Fard Muhammad from God to “Mahdi,” and replace Fard with the true Islamic concept of God. The concept of God in the religion of Islam can never be changed. Allah (swt) is bigger than everything – nothing can contain Him. The man Fard Muhammad, the God of the Nation of Islam, can be contained anywhere...

The Concept of Man According to the Religion of Islam

The Qur’an says that Allah (God) created man with a good nature. He created the human being “in the best mold.” Every human being is created in nobility. According to the religion of Islam every human being has a natural inclination towards good, righteousness and truth.

Man is entrusted with the role of leader in creation. Allah (swt) gave man a limited free will, and he can decide which road he wants to travel in life. The Qur’an also says that Allah (swt) gave the human being the gift of knowledge, and that man was given the knowledge of creation (Sura 2:31-32). The human being was created and raised above the angels (i.e., forces in nature)...

According to Islam every human being is created by one God, Allah (swt), The Most High. Prophet Muhammad (saw) stated in his farewell address that there is no superiority of a black over a white or a white over a black, or an Arab over a non-Arab, etc. Islam teaches that all humans have the same potential for progress. Prophet Muhammad (saw) said, “every person is born a Muslim.” Any human being can become a Muslim. Islam is not just for a particular group of people. Man is created perfect in his nature...

Islam makes a clear distinction between the God Allah (swt) and man. Allah (swt) is all-powerful and independent, whereas man is totally dependent on Allah (swt) for everything. However, Allah (swt) has given us the freedom to think and reason, and He has blessed us with intelligence. The Holy Qur’an says that man was created to worship Allah (swt); “Nay, but worship Allah and be of those who give thanks.” (Sura 39:66)

The Concept of Man According to the Nation of Islam

The concept of man in the Nation of Islam is quite different from that of the religion of Islam. The NOI teaches that there are two totally different human beings with extremely different natures: the Black man and the white man. They teach that the Black man is the original man; the owner, the maker, the cream of the planet Earth and the god of the Universe. The Black man is god; his nature is righteous. “The original man, Allah has declared, is none other than the Black man. The Black man is the first and last, maker and owner of the Universe. From him came all brown, red, yellow and white people.” (Elijah Muhammad, Message to the Black Man, p.53)

Not only does the NOI teach that there are two different types of human beings, they also teach that they (black and white people) were created by different “gods.” They teach that the Black man is self-created, and that the white man was created by a Black man named “Yakub” 6,000 years ago. Yakub taught the white man wickedness; he also taught them how to rule the Black man (See Message to the Black Man, pp.103-122)

The NOI teaches something totally different from the religion of Islam. They teach that man is God; that man can evolve to such a high mental level until he becomes God. “God is a man and we just cannot make Him other than man, lest we make Him an inferior one; for man’s intelligence has no equal in other than man. His wisdom is infinite; capable of accomplishing anything that His brain can conceive. Let that one among you who believes that God is other than man prove it!” (Message to the Black Man, pp. 6,7)

The Qur’an says that during the time of Moses the disbelievers said similar things. “And remember ye said, ‘O Moses! We shall never believe in thee until we see Allah manifestly’” (Sura 2:55). The holy book that is accepted by over 1.5 billion Muslims clearly states that Allah (swt) is the Owner and Maker of the Universe, not man. “He it is who created the Heavens and the Earth in truth.” (Sura 6:73) “Blessed is He who made constellations in the skies, and placed therein a lamp and a moon giving light; and it is He who made the night and day to follow each other.” (Sura 25:61-62)

And the Qur’an clearly states that man is created by Allah (swt) in Sura 55:14, which reads as follows: “The Beneficent hath made known the Qur’an. He hath created men; He hath taught him utterance.”...

The Meaning of the Holy Qur'an According to the Religion of Islam

The Holy Qur’an is the rule and guide of every Muslim. All Muslims accept and believe that the Qur’an is the last revelation from Allah (swt). The religion of Islam teaches that the Qur’an is a Divine Book for all times and climes. The Qur’an was revealed to the last prophet and messenger, Muhammad ibn Abdullah (saws). Muslims believe that the Qur’an is the work of Allah (swt), and that it is the highest body of knowledge on this planet...

The Qur’an is a pure and perfect book; it is a summation and confirmation of all the previous holy books. The religion of Islam teaches that no other revelation will come to man. The Qur’an is the last revelation. “All praise belongs to Allah Who has sent down the Book to His servant, and has not placed therein any crookedness.” (Sura 18:2)

What the Nation of Islam Says About the Holy Qur'an

The NOI does not accept or teach that the Holy Qur’an was revealed by Allah (swt), or that it is the complete and final revelation from Allah (swt). The NOI teaches that the Qur’an was written by men. According to the teachings of the NOI, every 25,000 years a group of scientists come together to write a holy book. Thus, according to them, another holy book will come. For about fifty years the NOI taught that the Qur’an was to be used only for a certain period of time, and then another book would be written in its place. (See Message to the Black Man, p.91 & 97.)

The NOI does not teach that the Qur’an was revealed to Prophet Muhammad (saw) by Allah (swt). It teaches that “there is another book that none has been able to see or read; its contents coming soon from Allah – the ‘Last Book’ which takes us into the Hereafter.” Also, “the Holy Qur’an and the Glory Books should be read and studied by us, the so-called American Negro"...

Both the present Bible and the Holy Qur’an must soon give way to that Holy Book which no man as yet – but Allah – has seen.” And: “We, the original nation of the Earth...are the writers of the Bible and Qur’an. We make such history once every 25,000 years. When such history is written, it is done by 24 of our scientists. One acts as judge or god for the others and 23 actually do the work of getting up the future of the nation, and all is put into one book.

And at intervals where such and such part or portion will come to pass, that people will be given that part of the book through one among that people from one of the 12 major scientists, as it is then called a ‘scripture,’ which actually means a script of writing from something original, or book.” (Message to the Black Man, p.108)

In 1975, Imam Abdul Warithudin Muhammad, son of Elijah Muhammad, changed the teachings concerning the Holy Qur’an. He told NOI members that the Holy Qur’an is the final revelation and that no other book was coming. In fact, Imam Muhammad transformed the NOI into a totally new community. The majority of its members embraced the religion of Islam. Minister Louis Farrakhan, who calls himself the leader of the NOI, did not accept the changes and held on to the old teachings of the NOI. Imam Muhammad and the majority of the Muslims in America are not members of the NOI, headed by Min. Farrakhan...

It must be said here, however, that there are many things concerning the Qur’an that are taught by the NOI that agree with the religion of Islam’s teachings of the Muslim Holy Book. For example, Elijah Muhammad wrote in his book, Message to the Black Man that “the Holy Qur’an and Shari’ah contains some of the most beautiful prayers that one ever heard, read or recited. It is called 'The Glorious Qur’an,' and, without mistake, that is just what it is.” (p. 92)

(MUSTAFA EL-AMIN is the author of "The Religion of Islam and the Nation of Islam: What is the Difference?")

Pharaoh Jahil

09-12-2003, 11:05 PM

Aqil, if you don't mind me asking. What are your personal views on the NOI?

Aqil

09-13-2003, 07:57 AM

Pharaoh Jah, see my thread "From the NOI to Orthodox Islam: A Historical Perspective"...it mirrors my personal views...

IssaEl21

05-21-2004, 10:27 AM

Imam W.D. Muhammad, son of Elijah Muhammad and leader of the American Muslim Mission, resigned last week...

Are You Sunni ????

Aqil

05-21-2004, 01:30 PM

Wa-Alaikum-Salaam, Bro. Issa. Yes I am...

IssaEl21

05-22-2004, 11:37 PM

Wa-Alaikum-Salaam, Bro. Issa. Yes I am...

As - Salaam - Alaykum - Wa - Rahmatu - llan - Wa - Baraakaatuhu - Kayfa - Haalaka < Aqil > May I Ask You A Few Question .
Araaka - Fiy - Ba'd - In - Shaa - A - Allah -

Aqil

05-23-2004, 07:25 AM

Wa-Alaikum-Salaam, Brother Issa. Nam, Insha'Allah...

IssaEl21

05-23-2004, 01:06 PM

Wa-Alaikum-Salaam, Brother Issa. Nam, Insha'Allah...
Aqil < Kafa - Haalaka >
Why Do Muslims Ignore That There Are Seven Salat Mentioned In The Quran ?
What Type Of Image Do Nubians / Blacks Have In Islam .
Araaka - Fiy - Maa - Ba'd - In - Shaa - A - Allah < Aqil >

Aqil

05-24-2004, 03:59 AM

Why do Muslims ignore that there are seven salat mentioned in the Qur'an?I am quite sure that those Muslims that know this do not ignore it...

What type of image do Nubians/Blacks have in Islam?
One of the ways many people know about Islam is through the TV footage of the Hajj. What is remarkable about this ritual is that people of all colors, races, and nationalities come together...and as they approach the Kaaba chant a simple verse; "O Lord! We have come to you."

This unity and uniformity comes directly from the universal concept of Oneness of God (Tauhid). The concept of tauhid in theological sense means God is one; in a mystical and spiritual sense it means Oneness with God, and at the social level it means all humanity is one under God. The Oneness of God; the oneness of life and of humanity is a unique contribution of Islam to human civilization. In the Qur’an mankind is one, under one God who nourishes, sustains, loves and guides.

The fact that humanity comes from one single source is the basic principle of faith and the differences between various nationalities, communities and races are nothing but a sign from Allah (swt). These differences are as much a sign from God as the revelation of the Qur’an itself.

“And it is a sign of Allah that he created the heavens and the earth And He created the diversity of languages and colors.” (Sura 30:22)

The positive value one can draw from this diversity is that it is a source of identity and mutual recognition.

“O Mankind! We created you from one source And then divided you into communities and nations So that you may know each other.” (Sura 49:13)

This diversity is a reason of celebration in the complexity and beauty of nature and not a basis for superiority of one group over another. The Holy Qur’an makes it clear that the only basis for distinction between people is their moral alertness (taqwa). The Qur’an emphasizes the importance of taqwa because it feels it binds people together even more than blood ties. As depicted in the story of Adam’s sons Cain and Abel, and the story of Joseph and his siblings. Without taqwa even brothers can kill and hurt each other. Without the moral vision of taqwa society can’t function properly.

This moral vision of Islam wasn’t confined to the the Qur’an, but was realized in a practical manner in the life of Prophet Muhammad (saw). The Prophet’s mission started in a society which placed a very high value on elitism. Arabs considered themselves superior to non-Arabs, and each tribe amongst the Arabs considered itself superior to others. This distinction - based on tribe and race - was very fundamental to the society in which Prophet Muhammad (saw) brought his mission. It is therefore quite remarkable that he was able to change these long-established beliefs and notions so quickly. Among his early converts were former slaves like the African Bilal the Abyssinian, the very first muezzin (caller to prayer) of the Islamic religion, and the powerful among the Quraish tribe like Omar and Abu Bakr.

Prophet Muhammad (saw) was to forge a brotherhood of people of such diverse class, status and background with the moral message of Islam. At least one of the Prophet's wives was African. Her name was Maria the Copt. Two of the Prophet’s wives were Jewish...their names were Raihanah and Safiyah...

“O Muhammad! Even if you had spend the entire wealth of mankind to forge this love, you would not have been able to do so.” (Sura 8:63)

In the special model which Islam created, a former slave would call people for prayer, and Prophet Muhammad (saw) would lead the worship. The prayers were not merely rituals, because the mosque was essentially the center of all social, political and community activities. This equality and brotherhood in the mosque became the norm for relationships and attitudes in the community at large.

If the Prophet appeared to favor one person over the other because of status, the Qur’an immediately corrected him. The Qur’an comments on one incident where the Prophet was busy talking earnestly to a powerful Arab leader hoping to gain his conversion to Islam, and ignored or showed mild displeasure to a poor, blind person who interrupted the conversation:

“The Prophet frowned and turned away because there came to him the blind man. And what would make you know that perchance he might grow in piety? Or that he might receive admonition and teaching might profit him?” (Sura 80:1-4)

Prophet Muhammad’s (saw) farewell sermon at the last Hajj he performed is a succinct summary of the major concepts in Islam. There he reinforced the unity of human race, and equality of all in the eyes of God, and the fair treatment of the vulnerable in the society, especially the slaves and the women. Brotherhood, justice and equality became a fundamental part of the piety-minded in the historical Muslim societies. Egalitarianism and inclusiveness were the hallmarks of all regions of the Islam through most of history, and remain so amongst the Muslim societies today. One curious phenomenon in the history of the Muslims is the number of kings who were former slaves, as was seen in Egypt and India. Islamic history has many sordid chapters in it, but there is no instance of mass persecution based on color or race. Long before the United Nations charter on equality of humans and the publication of a list of universal human rights, Islam had created a community based on equality and free of racial and class prejudice.

Islam is sometimes criticized for having replaced other forms of bigotry with religious bigotry. This does hold true on scrutiny of the Qur’an and the practice of the Prophet. Islam makes it clear that all of God’s religions are one, and all the prophets are one. Prophet Muhammad (saw) accepted the legitimacy of other religions, and the freedom of men to practice the religion of their choice. In Medina, when he lost hope that the majority of Jews and Christians would accept his mission, he accepted them as valid communities, and the Qur’an demanded that they should live according to the standards of the Torah and the Bible.

In the letters he wrote to the rulers of the neighboring regions inviting them to ponder over the message of Islam, Prophet Muhammad (saw) extended his protection to those communities and their places of worship, even if they chose not to accept his mission. The Qur’an considers the diversity of religions a divine mystery which can be solved only on the Day of Judgment. This acceptance of other traditions and faiths is reflected in the Sufi philosophy that religions are like beads in a rosary, separate yet bound by the same thread. As Ibn Arabi, the great 12th-century Sufi philosopher states in his poem, “The Tarjamanul Ashwaq” ("The Translator of Yearnings"):

"My heart has become capable of absorbing all forms.
It is a pasture for gazelles and a monastery for the monks;
A house that idols the Kaaba for the pilgrim;
The tablet of Torah and the Scripture of the Qur’an;
I adhere to the religion of love in whatever direction its caravan advances.
This true religion of love shall be my religion and my faith."

IssaEl21

05-24-2004, 08:39 AM

I am quite sure that those Muslims that know this do not ignore it...

One of the ways many people know about Islam is through the TV footage of the Hajj. What is remarkable about this ritual is that people of all colors, races, and nationalities come together...and as they approach the Kaaba chant a simple verse; "O Lord! We have come to you."

This unity and uniformity comes directly from the universal concept of Oneness of God (Tauhid). The concept of tauhid in theological sense means God is one; in a mystical and spiritual sense it means Oneness with God, and at the social level it means all humanity is one under God. The Oneness of God; the oneness of life and of humanity is a unique contribution of Islam to human civilization. In the Qur’an mankind is one, under one God who nourishes, sustains, loves and guides.

The fact that humanity comes from one single source is the basic principle of faith and the differences between various nationalities, communities and races are nothing but a sign from Allah (swt). These differences are as much a sign from God as the revelation of the Qur’an itself.

“And it is a sign of Allah that he created the heavens and the earth And He created the diversity of languages and colors.” (Sura 30:22)

The positive value one can draw from this diversity is that it is a source of identity and mutual recognition.

“O Mankind! We created you from one source And then divided you into communities and nations So that you may know each other.” (Sura 49:13)

This diversity is a reason of celebration in the complexity and beauty of nature and not a basis for superiority of one group over another. The Holy Qur’an makes it clear that the only basis for distinction between people is their moral alertness (taqwa). The Qur’an emphasizes the importance of taqwa because it feels it binds people together even more than blood ties. As depicted in the story of Adam’s sons Cain and Abel, and the story of Joseph and his siblings. Without taqwa even brothers can kill and hurt each other. Without the moral vision of taqwa society can’t function properly.

This moral vision of Islam wasn’t confined to the the Qur’an, but was realized in a practical manner in the life of Prophet Muhammad (saw). The Prophet’s mission started in a society which placed a very high value on elitism. Arabs considered themselves superior to non-Arabs, and each tribe amongst the Arabs considered itself superior to others. This distinction - based on tribe and race - was very fundamental to the society in which Prophet Muhammad (saw) brought his mission. It is therefore quite remarkable that he was able to change these long-established beliefs and notions so quickly. Among his early converts were former slaves like the African Bilal the Abyssinian, the very first muezzin (caller to prayer) of the Islamic religion, and the powerful among the Quraish tribe like Omar and Abu Bakr.

Prophet Muhammad (saw) was to forge a brotherhood of people of such diverse class, status and background with the moral message of Islam. At least one of the Prophet's wives was African. Her name was Maria the Copt. Two of the Prophet’s wives were Jewish...their names were Raihanah and Safiyah...

“O Muhammad! Even if you had spend the entire wealth of mankind to forge this love, you would not have been able to do so.” (Sura 8:63)

In the special model which Islam created, a former slave would call people for prayer, and Prophet Muhammad (saw) would lead the worship. The prayers were not merely rituals, because the mosque was essentially the center of all social, political and community activities. This equality and brotherhood in the mosque became the norm for relationships and attitudes in the community at large.

If the Prophet appeared to favor one person over the other because of status, the Qur’an immediately corrected him. The Qur’an comments on one incident where the Prophet was busy talking earnestly to a powerful Arab leader hoping to gain his conversion to Islam, and ignored or showed mild displeasure to a poor, blind person who interrupted the conversation:

“The Prophet frowned and turned away because there came to him the blind man. And what would make you know that perchance he might grow in piety? Or that he might receive admonition and teaching might profit him?” (Sura 80:1-4)

Prophet Muhammad’s (saw) farewell sermon at the last Hajj he performed is a succinct summary of the major concepts in Islam. There he reinforced the unity of human race, and equality of all in the eyes of God, and the fair treatment of the vulnerable in the society, especially the slaves and the women. Brotherhood, justice and equality became a fundamental part of the piety-minded in the historical Muslim societies. Egalitarianism and inclusiveness were the hallmarks of all regions of the Islam through most of history, and remain so amongst the Muslim societies today. One curious phenomenon in the history of the Muslims is the number of kings who were former slaves, as was seen in Egypt and India. Islamic history has many sordid chapters in it, but there is no instance of mass persecution based on color or race. Long before the United Nations charter on equality of humans and the publication of a list of universal human rights, Islam had created a community based on equality and free of racial and class prejudice.

Islam is sometimes criticized for having replaced other forms of bigotry with religious bigotry. This does hold true on scrutiny of the Qur’an and the practice of the Prophet. Islam makes it clear that all of God’s religions are one, and all the prophets are one. Prophet Muhammad (saw) accepted the legitimacy of other religions, and the freedom of men to practice the religion of their choice. In Medina, when he lost hope that the majority of Jews and Christians would accept his mission, he accepted them as valid communities, and the Qur’an demanded that they should live according to the standards of the Torah and the Bible.

In the letters he wrote to the rulers of the neighboring regions inviting them to ponder over the message of Islam, Prophet Muhammad (saw) extended his protection to those communities and their places of worship, even if they chose not to accept his mission. The Qur’an considers the diversity of religions a divine mystery which can be solved only on the Day of Judgment. This acceptance of other traditions and faiths is reflected in the Sufi philosophy that religions are like beads in a rosary, separate yet bound by the same thread. As Ibn Arabi, the great 12th-century Sufi philosopher states in his poem, “The Tarjamanul Ashwaq” ("The Translator of Yearnings"):

"My heart has become capable of absorbing all forms.
It is a pasture for gazelles and a monastery for the monks;
A house that idols the Kaaba for the pilgrim;
The tablet of Torah and the Scripture of the Qur’an;
I adhere to the religion of love in whatever direction its caravan advances.
This true religion of love shall be my religion and my faith."

Why Do Muslims Ignore That There Are Seven Salat Mentioned In The Quran ?
I Must Say I'm Impress With You Answer , But I Get The Feeeling Your Trying To Say There No Raceism In Islam . And Thats Just Not True . And I Appreciate You Takeing You Time To Answer My Question ;
I Have Another Question If I May ?
Is Islam Another Sect Of Christianity ??
;Why Do Muslims Ignore That There Are Seven Salat Mentioned In The Quran ?
1) Salatul Fajr <> So ( give ) glory to God when yereach eventide and When Ye Rise In The Morning
( The Quran 30 ; 17 ; 17 ; 78 )
2) Salatudh Dhur <> Yea to him be praise , In the heavens and on earth And In The Late Afternoon ( The Quran 30; 18 )
3) Salatul Asr <> Guard strictly your ( habit of ) prayers , Especially The Middle Prayer ( The Quran 2 ; 238 )
4) Salatul Maghrib <> So ( give ) glory to God when Ye reach Eeventide ( The Quran 30 ; 17 )
5) Salatul Ishaa <> And after The Late - Night Prayer ( The Quran 24 ; 58 )
6) Salatul Ishraaq <> Our praises at eventide and at Break Of Day ( TheQuran 38 ; 18 ;.....
7) Salatut Tahajjud <> '' Establish regular prayers at the sun's decline Till TheDarkness Of TheNight ( The Quran 17
What Type Of Image Do Nubians / Blacks Have In Islam ?
WhenEver These Arabs From The East See A Nubians / Blacks Dress Up As A Muslim ; Whether You Are Coverted Or Not , These Same , Socalled Brotherly Loved , United As One , Muslims See You As An American Negro , Trying To Imitate Their ( Arab ) Way Of Life , And Yes I Guarantee You That ! Then Once You Are Deeply Invole In This Islamic Culture , You'll Find Out How They Really Feel About Us . Don't Be Surprised ! For Instance , The Place A Very Disturbing Image Of Us Nubians / Blacks On One Of The Covers Of Their Primary Arabic Reading Book , Called '' The Blacks Who Lives Under The Earth '' <Showing Us , Eating Raw Meat , As If We Are Savages , > We Nubians / Blacks Are Not And Never Were Savages . This Book Was Published In 1983 A.D. And Written In All Arabic Which Is Used In Morocco , For It Was The Nubians , Who Are And Were The Civilizers And Gave The Best Culture To Others . Just Ask Us About Our Ancestor , Abraham . The Chaldean ( Genesis 11 ; 31 ) Who Helped To Civilze People Of The Caucasus Mountains , The Chaldeans Were Known To Be Nubians , With Kingly ( Kinky ) Hair And Had Dark Skin Complexions . HowEver , It Is These Same Muslims Of The East / Arabs , Who Have Our Blood Running Through Them That Discriminate And LQQk Down On Us ; Just Ask The Egyotian Muhammad El Fayed , And His Egyptian / Saudian Son , Dodi Fayed < Dead > Whom The British Media Repeatedly Labeled . Dark , Dusky , And Swarthy ; - A Taste Of Their Own Medicine . Yet It Is It These East Arabs Who Will Always Show Nubians As Servants , Dancers . Singers ; As If That Is The Only Things , We Can Do Well . You Will Hear Bilal's Name Mentioned , Singing Or Chanting The Azaan , But They Won't Tell You He And His Descendants Were The Founder Of Cities And Centers Of Education , And Culture In Syria And Morocco . Bilal . Was One Of The Most Beloved Out Of Muhammad's So - Called Companions Beside Ali , Whom Abu Bakr . LQQked Down On And Treated As A Slave ; And Ironically . It Was He Who Brought Bilal And Free Him From The Red Arabs , Ummayya Ibn Khalaf , So Abu Bakr Help Slaves And LQQked Down On Dark - Slinned Arabs As Well
Hadith # 205
Umayya B . Khalaf B . Wahb . , Hudhafa B. Jumah Used To Bring Him Out At The Hottest Part Of The Day And Throw Him On His Back In The Open Valley And Have A Great Rock Put On His Chest ; Then He Would Say To Him ; '' You Will Stay Here Till You Die Or Deny Muhammad And Worship At - Lat And Al - Uzza . He Used To Say While He Was Enduring This '' One , One ! '' Hisham B . ' Urwa Told Me On The Authority Of His Father ; Waraqa B . Naufal Was Passing Him While He Was Being Thus Tortured AndSaying ; One , And He Said ; '' One , By Allah , Bilaal . Then He Went To Umayya And Those Of B, Jumah Who Had Thus Maltreated Him And Said '' I Swear By Allah That If You Kill Him In This Way I Will Make His Tomb A Shrine . '' One Day Abu Bakr Passed By , While They Were Thus Ill - Treating Him , For His House Was Among This Clan . He Said To Ummayya . '' Have You No Fear Of Allah That You Treat This Poor Fellow Like This ? How Long Is It To Go On ? He Replied '' You Are The One Who Corrupted Him , So Save Him From His Plight That You See '' I Will Do . '' Said Abu Bakr '' I Have God A Black Slave . Tougher And Stronger Then He , Who Is A Heathen . I Will Exchange Him For Bilaal . '' The Transaction . Was Carried Out And Abu Bakr Took Him And Freed Him .
Even Bilaal Must Have Felt Abu Bakr Treated Him As A Slave And Took Advantage Of Him For Him To Say This ; And I QuoteFrom A Hadiyth By Bukhari ; Qais B . Abu Hazim Told That Bilaal Said To Abu Bakr , '' If You Bought Me For Your Sake , Keep Me , But If You Bought Me Only For Allah's Sake , Let Me Go And Undertake Allah's Work ''
And Then Again In Another Bakhari Hadith It Says '' ''' Bilaal B . Rabah Client Of Abu Bakr As Siddiq Is Listed In The Name Of Those Present At The Battle Of Badr ''
So That Will Make Abu Bakr As Bad As Anyone Who Held Slaves, Including The Prophet Muhammad Who Had Slave As Well , Like Maryam The Copt And That Is After Islam Supposedly Liberated Slave . Why ..
Araaka - Fiy - Maa - Ba'd - In - Shaa - A - Allah

IssaEl21

05-24-2004, 08:45 AM

I am quite sure that those Muslims that know this do not ignore it...

One of the ways many people know about Islam is through the TV footage of the Hajj. What is remarkable about this ritual is that people of all colors, races, and nationalities come together...and as they approach the Kaaba chant a simple verse; "O Lord! We have come to you."

This unity and uniformity comes directly from the universal concept of Oneness of God (Tauhid). The concept of tauhid in theological sense means God is one; in a mystical and spiritual sense it means Oneness with God, and at the social level it means all humanity is one under God. The Oneness of God; the oneness of life and of humanity is a unique contribution of Islam to human civilization. In the Qur’an mankind is one, under one God who nourishes, sustains, loves and guides.

The fact that humanity comes from one single source is the basic principle of faith and the differences between various nationalities, communities and races are nothing but a sign from Allah (swt). These differences are as much a sign from God as the revelation of the Qur’an itself.

“And it is a sign of Allah that he created the heavens and the earth And He created the diversity of languages and colors.” (Sura 30:22)

The positive value one can draw from this diversity is that it is a source of identity and mutual recognition.

“O Mankind! We created you from one source And then divided you into communities and nations So that you may know each other.” (Sura 49:13)

This diversity is a reason of celebration in the complexity and beauty of nature and not a basis for superiority of one group over another. The Holy Qur’an makes it clear that the only basis for distinction between people is their moral alertness (taqwa). The Qur’an emphasizes the importance of taqwa because it feels it binds people together even more than blood ties. As depicted in the story of Adam’s sons Cain and Abel, and the story of Joseph and his siblings. Without taqwa even brothers can kill and hurt each other. Without the moral vision of taqwa society can’t function properly.

This moral vision of Islam wasn’t confined to the the Qur’an, but was realized in a practical manner in the life of Prophet Muhammad (saw). The Prophet’s mission started in a society which placed a very high value on elitism. Arabs considered themselves superior to non-Arabs, and each tribe amongst the Arabs considered itself superior to others. This distinction - based on tribe and race - was very fundamental to the society in which Prophet Muhammad (saw) brought his mission. It is therefore quite remarkable that he was able to change these long-established beliefs and notions so quickly. Among his early converts were former slaves like the African Bilal the Abyssinian, the very first muezzin (caller to prayer) of the Islamic religion, and the powerful among the Quraish tribe like Omar and Abu Bakr.

Prophet Muhammad (saw) was to forge a brotherhood of people of such diverse class, status and background with the moral message of Islam. At least one of the Prophet's wives was African. Her name was Maria the Copt. Two of the Prophet’s wives were Jewish...their names were Raihanah and Safiyah...

“O Muhammad! Even if you had spend the entire wealth of mankind to forge this love, you would not have been able to do so.” (Sura 8:63)

In the special model which Islam created, a former slave would call people for prayer, and Prophet Muhammad (saw) would lead the worship. The prayers were not merely rituals, because the mosque was essentially the center of all social, political and community activities. This equality and brotherhood in the mosque became the norm for relationships and attitudes in the community at large.

If the Prophet appeared to favor one person over the other because of status, the Qur’an immediately corrected him. The Qur’an comments on one incident where the Prophet was busy talking earnestly to a powerful Arab leader hoping to gain his conversion to Islam, and ignored or showed mild displeasure to a poor, blind person who interrupted the conversation:

“The Prophet frowned and turned away because there came to him the blind man. And what would make you know that perchance he might grow in piety? Or that he might receive admonition and teaching might profit him?” (Sura 80:1-4)

Prophet Muhammad’s (saw) farewell sermon at the last Hajj he performed is a succinct summary of the major concepts in Islam. There he reinforced the unity of human race, and equality of all in the eyes of God, and the fair treatment of the vulnerable in the society, especially the slaves and the women. Brotherhood, justice and equality became a fundamental part of the piety-minded in the historical Muslim societies. Egalitarianism and inclusiveness were the hallmarks of all regions of the Islam through most of history, and remain so amongst the Muslim societies today. One curious phenomenon in the history of the Muslims is the number of kings who were former slaves, as was seen in Egypt and India. Islamic history has many sordid chapters in it, but there is no instance of mass persecution based on color or race. Long before the United Nations charter on equality of humans and the publication of a list of universal human rights, Islam had created a community based on equality and free of racial and class prejudice.

Islam is sometimes criticized for having replaced other forms of bigotry with religious bigotry. This does hold true on scrutiny of the Qur’an and the practice of the Prophet. Islam makes it clear that all of God’s religions are one, and all the prophets are one. Prophet Muhammad (saw) accepted the legitimacy of other religions, and the freedom of men to practice the religion of their choice. In Medina, when he lost hope that the majority of Jews and Christians would accept his mission, he accepted them as valid communities, and the Qur’an demanded that they should live according to the standards of the Torah and the Bible.

In the letters he wrote to the rulers of the neighboring regions inviting them to ponder over the message of Islam, Prophet Muhammad (saw) extended his protection to those communities and their places of worship, even if they chose not to accept his mission. The Qur’an considers the diversity of religions a divine mystery which can be solved only on the Day of Judgment. This acceptance of other traditions and faiths is reflected in the Sufi philosophy that religions are like beads in a rosary, separate yet bound by the same thread. As Ibn Arabi, the great 12th-century Sufi philosopher states in his poem, “The Tarjamanul Ashwaq” ("The Translator of Yearnings"):

"My heart has become capable of absorbing all forms.
It is a pasture for gazelles and a monastery for the monks;
A house that idols the Kaaba for the pilgrim;
The tablet of Torah and the Scripture of the Qur’an;
I adhere to the religion of love in whatever direction its caravan advances.
This true religion of love shall be my religion and my faith."

I Must Say I'm Impress With You Answer , But I Get The Feeeling Your Trying To Say There No Raceism In Islam . And Thats Just Not True . And I Appreciate You Takeing You Time To Answer My Question ;
I Have Another Question If I May ?
Is Islam Another Sect Of Christianity ??
;Why Do Muslims Ignore That There Are Seven Salat Mentioned In The Quran ?
1) Salatul Fajr <> So ( give ) glory to God when yereach eventide and When Ye Rise In The Morning
( The Quran 30 ; 17 ; 17 ; 78 )
2) Salatudh Dhur <> Yea to him be praise , In the heavens and on earth And In The Late Afternoon ( The Quran 30; 18 )
3) Salatul Asr <> Guard strictly your ( habit of ) prayers , Especially The Middle Prayer ( The Quran 2 ; 238 )
4) Salatul Maghrib <> So ( give ) glory to God when Ye reach Eeventide ( The Quran 30 ; 17 )
5) Salatul Ishaa <> And after The Late - Night Prayer ( The Quran 24 ; 58 )
6) Salatul Ishraaq <> Our praises at eventide and at Break Of Day ( TheQuran 38 ; 18 ;.....
7) Salatut Tahajjud <> '' Establish regular prayers at the sun's decline Till TheDarkness Of TheNight ( The Quran 17
What Type Of Image Do Nubians / Blacks Have In Islam ?
WhenEver These Arabs From The East See A Nubians / Blacks Dress Up As A Muslim ; Whether You Are Coverted Or Not , These Same , Socalled Brotherly Loved , United As One , Muslims See You As An American Negro , Trying To Imitate Their ( Arab ) Way Of Life , And Yes I Guarantee You That ! Then Once You Are Deeply Invole In This Islamic Culture , You'll Find Out How They Really Feel About Us . Don't Be Surprised ! For Instance , The Place A Very Disturbing Image Of Us Nubians / Blacks On One Of The Covers Of Their Primary Arabic Reading Book , Called '' The Blacks Who Lives Under The Earth '' <Showing Us , Eating Raw Meat , As If We Are Savages , > We Nubians / Blacks Are Not And Never Were Savages . This Book Was Published In 1983 A.D. And Written In All Arabic Which Is Used In Morocco , For It Was The Nubians , Who Are And Were The Civilizers And Gave The Best Culture To Others . Just Ask Us About Our Ancestor , Abraham . The Chaldean ( Genesis 11 ; 31 ) Who Helped To Civilze People Of The Caucasus Mountains , The Chaldeans Were Known To Be Nubians , With Kingly ( Kinky ) Hair And Had Dark Skin Complexions . HowEver , It Is These Same Muslims Of The East / Arabs , Who Have Our Blood Running Through Them That Discriminate And LQQk Down On Us ; Just Ask The Egyotian Muhammad El Fayed , And His Egyptian / Saudian Son , Dodi Fayed < Dead > Whom The British Media Repeatedly Labeled . Dark , Dusky , And Swarthy ; - A Taste Of Their Own Medicine . Yet It Is It These East Arabs Who Will Always Show Nubians As Servants , Dancers . Singers ; As If That Is The Only Things , We Can Do Well . You Will Hear Bilal's Name Mentioned , Singing Or Chanting The Azaan , But They Won't Tell You He And His Descendants Were The Founder Of Cities And Centers Of Education , And Culture In Syria And Morocco . Bilal . Was One Of The Most Beloved Out Of Muhammad's So - Called Companions Beside Ali , Whom Abu Bakr . LQQked Down On And Treated As A Slave ; And Ironically . It Was He Who Brought Bilal And Free Him From The Red Arabs , Ummayya Ibn Khalaf , So Abu Bakr Help Slaves And LQQked Down On Dark - Slinned Arabs As Well
Hadith # 205
Umayya B . Khalaf B . Wahb . , Hudhafa B. Jumah Used To Bring Him Out At The Hottest Part Of The Day And Throw Him On His Back In The Open Valley And Have A Great Rock Put On His Chest ; Then He Would Say To Him ; '' You Will Stay Here Till You Die Or Deny Muhammad And Worship At - Lat And Al - Uzza . He Used To Say While He Was Enduring This '' One , One ! '' Hisham B . ' Urwa Told Me On The Authority Of His Father ; Waraqa B . Naufal Was Passing Him While He Was Being Thus Tortured AndSaying ; One , And He Said ; '' One , By Allah , Bilaal . Then He Went To Umayya And Those Of B, Jumah Who Had Thus Maltreated Him And Said '' I Swear By Allah That If You Kill Him In This Way I Will Make His Tomb A Shrine . '' One Day Abu Bakr Passed By , While They Were Thus Ill - Treating Him , For His House Was Among This Clan . He Said To Ummayya . '' Have You No Fear Of Allah That You Treat This Poor Fellow Like This ? How Long Is It To Go On ? He Replied '' You Are The One Who Corrupted Him , So Save Him From His Plight That You See '' I Will Do . '' Said Abu Bakr '' I Have God A Black Slave . Tougher And Stronger Then He , Who Is A Heathen . I Will Exchange Him For Bilaal . '' The Transaction . Was Carried Out And Abu Bakr Took Him And Freed Him .
Even Bilaal Must Have Felt Abu Bakr Treated Him As A Slave And Took Advantage Of Him For Him To Say This ; And I QuoteFrom A Hadiyth By Bukhari ; Qais B . Abu Hazim Told That Bilaal Said To Abu Bakr , '' If You Bought Me For Your Sake , Keep Me , But If You Bought Me Only For Allah's Sake , Let Me Go And Undertake Allah's Work ''
And Then Again In Another Bakhari Hadith It Says '' ''' Bilaal B . Rabah Client Of Abu Bakr As Siddiq Is Listed In The Name Of Those Present At The Battle Of Badr ''
So That Will Make Abu Bakr As Bad As Anyone Who Held Slaves, Including The Prophet Muhammad Who Had Slave As Well , Like Maryam The Copt And That Is After Islam Supposedly Liberated Slave . Why ..

MANASIAC

05-24-2004, 10:22 AM

Aqil

05-24-2004, 11:37 AM

Re: Racism and Islam

"Say: We believe in God, and in what has been revealed to us, and what was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael; Isaac, Jacob, and the tribes, and in (the Books) given to Moses, Jesus, and the Prophets from their Lord: We make no distinction between one and another among them; and to God do we bow our will (in Islam)." (Holy Qur'an 3:84)

"Let there be no compulsion in matters of religion." (Holy Qur'an 2:256)

"Verily, those who believe (in the Qur'an) and those who follow the Jewish (Scriptures) and the Christians and the Sabians, any who believe in God and the Last Day, and work righteousness shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve." (Holy Qur'an 2:62)

Re: Racism Towards Other Races

"The Hajj pilgrimage to Mecca was an exhilarating experience to see people belonging to different colors, races and nationalities - kings, heads of states and ordinary men from very poor countries - all clad in two simple white sheets praying to God without any sense of either pride or inferiority. It was a practical manifestation of the concept of equality in Islam."
(Muhammad Ali)

"The Europeans in South Africa dread the advent of Islam, as the (Muslims) claim equality with the white races. They may well dread it. If brotherhood is a sin; if it is equality of the colored races that they dread, then their dread is well-founded."
(Mahatma K. Ghandi)

"I have been struck over again by this indivisible unity of Islam that makes a man instinctively a brother. When you meet an Egyptian, an Algerian, an Indian and a Turk in London, what matters is that Egypt is the Motherland of one and India is the Motherland of another." (Sarojini Naidu)

"Never have I witnessed such sincere hospitality and the overwhelming spirit of true brotherhood as is practised by people of all colors and races here in this ancient Holy Land, the home of Abraham, Muhammad, and all the other prophets of the Holy Scriptures. For the past week, I have been utterly speechless and spellbound by the graciousness I see displayed all around me by people of all colors." (Malcolm X)

"Allah is to be praised and thanked for ridding us of the vices and pride of the days of ignorance. O People! Note that all men (the noun includes women as well) are divided in two categories only: the pious and God-fearing who are esteemable in Allah's reckoning, and the transgressors and hard-hearted, who are lowly and contemptible in the eye of Allah." [Prophet Muhammad (saw)]

"O Mankind! Most certainly, it is We (God almighty) who have Created you all from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and it is we who has made you into Nations and tribes, that ye may recognize each other (not that ye may despise each other). Verily, the noblest of you in the sight of Allah is he who is the most righteous of you." (Holy Qur'an 49:13)

"And mankind is naught but a single nation." (Holy Qur'an 2:213)

"And among His Signs is the Creation of the Heavens and the Earth, and the variations in your languages and your colors; verily in that are signs for those who know." (Holy Qur'an 30:22)

"All men (the noun includes women) are equal in Islam, the Arab has no superiority over the non-Arab, nor does the non-Arab have superiority over the Arab, save in the fear of God." [Prophet Muhammad (saw)]

"The extinction of race consciousness as between Muslims is one of the outstanding achievements of Islam, and in the contemporary world there is, as it happens, a crying need for the propagation of this Islamic virtue." (Professor A.J. Toynbee)

"I hope the time is not far off when I shall be able to unite all the wise and educated men of all the countries and establish a uniform regime based on the principles of the Qur'an, which alone are true and which alone can lead men to happiness." (Napoleon Bonaparte)

Islam is not a racist religion, nor does it preach racism. The people of other faiths have always enjoyed religious toleration under Islam; when the Jews were being persecuted in the rest of Europe, they found freedom and sanctity in Muslim Spain. Their historians regard that as one of their "Golden Eras." In Muslim countries today, Christians are permitted to practice their faith as freely as any country, and inter-cultural marriages are common in Islam...

Ma Salaam.

Joyce

05-24-2004, 11:56 AM

I personally think the only difference between them is that Orthodox Islam generates more money than the Nation of Islam. However both of them combined cannot effect the revenue generating power of Christianity.

I pondered this for a minute and thought...I have to disagree with you on this one. While Christianity is one of the powerful influential forces on the earth, it has no where near the "revenue generating" power that Islam has. It's hard to explain, but most Christian pastors and ministries have to literally beg most their people for money every year...while most of the billions for Islam come from wealthy business men and a bottomless pit of oil revenue. Moreover, their leaders do not have to "plead" with their followers for support, they willingly give it. Many people don't know it but Islam (not Christianity) is the fastest growing religion on the planet and it doesn't seem to be slowing down a bit. To be in a position like this, it takes money and lots of it. Campaigning for election for president cost millions for that short period of time, but one can only imagine the funds required to campaign for your faith 24/7 year after year. Money is not a bad thing...it's a powerful thing. And when handled right an abundance of good can come from it. :spinn:

~j

MANASIAC

05-24-2004, 01:25 PM

Joyce

05-24-2004, 01:56 PM

I understand all of that. But I still think Christianity generate more revenue. I know it is the fastest growing religion on the planet but it is growinng in alot of places in the East not really in the west. The Catholic Church is Powerful and they are the reasons why Christanity is more powerful than Islam I think.

Surpriseeeeee :huh: That is what the average person thinks. Not many know that the fastest growing religion in AMERCIA is NOT Christianity but Islam. That's because Islam is more diverse than it has ever been in it's entire history. Thus, Islam is poised for world domination...fact.
http://www.arc.org/C_Lines/CLArchive/story5_3_03.html

IssaEl21

05-28-2004, 03:27 PM

IssaEl21

05-31-2004, 01:17 PM

Why Do Muslims Preserve Artifacts Of TheProphet Muhammad Like The Christian Do With Jesus Christ ?
Araaka - Fiy - Maa - Ba'd In - Shaa - A - Allah
Issa

I Don't Agree With All The Teaching Of N.O.I. But Under The Leadership Of The Messenger Elijah Muhammad , The Messenger Built A Strong Nation As You Well Know And He Taught The Nubians Brother & Sister Do ForSelf . And They Never Ask The Muslims Of The East To Pay There Rent . Who LQQK At Muslims Here In The West Has Slaves . You Never Hear The Muslims Of East Speak Out Against The Injustus, Of The Muslims And Non-muslims Here In The West , But You Will Hear These Silly Sunnie Muslims , Speak Against There Brother Muslims . I Though If You Bear Witness To Allah You Were Muslim . You Will Have Some Silly Sunni Muslims Say The N.O.I Are Not Muslims Because Of There Dress & And There Teaching . You Sound Like Bilal Philips & Jeffrey Kearse / Siraj Wahhaj . The PitBulls For The Pale Muslims Of The East . Remember When You Speak Out Aganist Another Muslims Teaching You Leave Yourself Open To Be Question Also . OverStand : :geek: :toast:

IssaEl21

05-31-2004, 04:56 PM

Aqil

06-27-2005, 07:29 AM

Question for Orthodox Sunni Muslims: Did Allah tell Muslims to kiss the Black Stone anywhere in His Qur'an?No. The Black Stone is not mentioned in the Qur’an.

http://www.islamonline.net/askaboutislam/display.asp?hquestionID=5016

(This is an excellent Islamic website, Sister Akilah.)

Akilah

06-29-2005, 02:58 AM

Thank you Brotha Aqil !

Many thanks :flowers:

Aqil

06-29-2005, 07:24 AM

You're quite welcome, my sister...

IssaEl21

06-29-2005, 08:44 AM

You're quite welcome, my sister...

First I Like To Say The Messenger Elijah Muhammad Was One Of The Greatest Teacher Of Muslims Here In The West , And He Have Done More For His People Here In The West Then Any Muslim Here And The Muslim Of The East .
Aqil I Have A Few Question For You If I May Ok .
What Type Of Image Does Nubian Have In Islam ?

Aqil

06-29-2005, 07:08 PM

Salaam, aqi. This website will answer all your queries re: Islam in Nubia...

http://ron.heavengames.com/gameinfo/nations/nubia/nubia.shtml

IssaEl21

06-30-2005, 12:20 AM

Salaam, aqi. This website will answer all your queries re: Islam in Nubia...

http://ron.heavengames.com/gameinfo/nations/nubia/nubia.shtml

I Don't Accept Those Website Links You And I Bost Know They Are NothinG But Hadiyth Writer Words Of Men Not Of Allah . Being You Like To Talk About The NOI .. Why Can't We Discuss Sunnis-ism We Both Want To Put The Truth Out Yes

Aqil

07-01-2005, 09:26 AM

I don't accept those website links. You and I both know they are nothing but hadith writing words of men, not of Allah...The overwhelming majority of Muslims consider ahadith to be essential supplements to - and clarifications of - the Holy Qur'an.

Being that you like to talk about the NOI...This is not true, Issa. My thread was taken from a book written by Imam Mustafa El-Amin of Newark, NJ, titled, The Religion of Islam and the Nation of Islam: What is the Difference? Here is the website:

http://home.earthlink.net/~hanan/el-amin.htm

Why can't we discuss Sunniism?We can...however, you asked about Islam in Nubia...

IssaEl21

07-01-2005, 11:41 AM

The overwhelming majority of Muslims consider ahadith to be essential supplements to - and clarifications of - the Holy Qur'an.

This is not true, Issa. My thread was taken from a book written by Imam Mustafa El-Amin of Newark, NJ, titled, The Religion of Islam and the Nation of Islam: What is the Difference? Here is the website:

http://home.earthlink.net/~hanan/el-amin.htm

We can...however, you asked about Islam in Nubia...

I Hear Of That Guy Before And I Know Most Muslim Here In The West Don't See The N.O.I. As Muslims . But They Will Accept The So-Call Muslims Of The East As Muslims & Brother's . When The True Of The Matter They Are Not The True Muslims They Are Convert . I'm Not Saying I Agree With The N.O.I Teaching And I Know It Very Well Believe Me . It's About What Messenger Elijah Muhammad Did For The Nubian's Brother's & Sister"s Here In The West .

SAMURAI36

07-01-2005, 12:06 PM

SALAAM AQIL:

The overwhelming majority of Muslims consider ahadith to be essential supplements to - and clarifications of - the Holy Qur'an.

I'm purposefully choosing to remain silent in this thread, but I do wish to comment on this one statement.

Just because the amount ("overwhelming" or otherwise) of people accept a notion, does not begin to speak about its accuracy.

The issue with the HADITH has always been that it not only many times contradicts the QUR'AN, but also often contradicts itself.

Not to mention that the HADITH backfires on itself, by portraying PROPHET MUHAMMAD as a misogynist, racist, pagan and otherwise generally unintelligent.

In fact, in reading the QUR'AN, and the knowledge contained therein about a great many subjects, those same subjects addressed in the HADITH are contradicted to the point of not only being embarrassing, but also leading the reader to believe that both mediums cannot possibly be from the same source.

Does the Prophet really want us to Drink urine, beat female slaves, call blacks "raisin heads", and other deplorable acts? (all from SAHIH BUKHARI)

How does he break down the process of procreation in the QUR'AN, yet tell us in the HADITH that "if the woman's semen is yellow, then the child will be a girl, and if it is white, then it will be a boy (SAHIH BUKHARI)???????

Since when do women have "SEMEN"???

This is just a common sense issue here..........Especially when each and every single HADITH entry begins with:

"AHMAD heard ABDUL, who heard TARIQ say that he heard HAKIM say that he heard ALI say that he heard the Prophet say........."

This is to be taken as right and exact in your mind's eye?

In today's times, such writings would be known as HEAR-SAY, or "he said-she said".

Yet, we once again set aside our mental prowess (or rather, have it stripped away from us), in favor of BELIEF. :thinking:

At least the NOI does not subscribe to hear-say as the focal point of their belief.

MA'SALAAM

Aqil

07-01-2005, 02:16 PM

Salaam aqi.

Does the Prophet really want us to drink urine, beat female slaves, call blacks "raisin heads", and other deplorable acts? (all from SAHIH BUKHARI)Of course not. Can you direct me to the particular ahadith by Sahih Bukhari?

How does he break down the process of procreation in the QUR'AN, yet tell us in the HADITH that "if the woman's semen is yellow, then the child will be a girl, and if it is white, then it will be a boy (SAHIH BUKHARI)???????

Since when do women have "SEMEN"???First of all the Qur'an implies that semen production takes place in the kidney or back area:

"Now let man but think from what he is created! He is created from a drop emitted - Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs:" Sura 86:5-7.

According to Ibn Kathir, the first Muslims understood this verse to be referring to the sexual fluid provided by both the man and the woman in producing a child. This implies that the first Muslims believed that women contributed actual sperm necessary in determining the characteristics of a child. The ahadith provide additional proof that both Prophet Muhammad (saw) and his followers did in fact assume that a child's characteristics, along with its gender, was the direct result of the sperm contributed by both the male and the female. The Prophet declared:

"As for the resemblance of the child to its parents; if a man has sexual intercourse with his wife and gets a discharge first, the child will resemble the father, and if the woman gets her discharge first, the child will resemble her." (Sahih al-Bukhari, Vol. 4, #546)

That Prophet Muhammad (saw) is speaking of actual female sperm becomes clear from this excerpt from Salih Muslim:

"...He (the Jew) said: I have come to ask you about a thing which no one amongst the people on the earth knows except an apostle or one or two men besides him. The Holy Prophet said: 'Would it benefit you if I tell you that?' He (the Jew) said: 'I would lend ears to that.' He then said: 'I have come to ask you about the child.' The Holy Prophet then said: 'The reproductive substance of man is white and that of woman yellow, and when they have sexual intercourse and the male's substance prevails upon the female's substance, it is the male child that is created by Allah's Decree, and when the substance of the female prevails upon the substance contributed by the male, a female child is formed by the Decree of Allah...' (Sahih Muslim, Book 003, #0614)

Another hadith says,

"If a male's fluid prevails upon the female's substance, the child will be a male by Allah's decree, and when the substance of the female prevails upon the substance contributed by the male, a female child is formed."

Surely this is not referring to dominant and recessive genes at all, as certain Muslims have claimed, but is simply repeating the incorrect belief of Hippocrates that both men and women produce both male and female sperm. The sex of the resulting child is determined by which sperm overwhelms the other in strength or quantity:
"...both partners alike contain both male and female sperm (the male being stronger than the female must originate from a stronger sperm). Here is a further point: if (a) both partners produce a stronger sperm then a male is the result, whereas if (b) they produce a weak form, then a female is the result. But if (c) one partner produces one kind of sperm, and the other produces another, then the resultant sex is determined by whichever sperm prevails in quantity. For suppose that the weak sperm is much greater in quantity than the stronger sperm: then the stronger sperm is overwhelmed and, being mixed with weak, results in a female. If, on the contrary, the strong sperm is greater in quantity than the weak, and the weak is overwhelmed, it results in a male."

As aforementioned in the hadith, Prophet Muhammad (saw) says that the reproductive substance of men is white and that of women is yellow. This sounds very much like the content - yellow and white - that is found inside developing chicken eggs, which Aristotle was known to dissect...:)

SAMURAI36

07-01-2005, 03:42 PM

Salaam aqi.

Of course not. Can you direct me to the particular ahadith by Sahih Bukhari?

But of course:

Volume 7, Book 71, Number 590:
Narrated Anas: The climate of Medina did not suit some people, so the Prophet ordered them to follow his shepherd, i.e. his camels, and drink their milk and urine (as a medicine). So they followed the shepherd that is the camels and drank their milk and urine till their bodies became healthy. Then they killed the shepherd and drove away the camels. When the news reached the Prophet he sent some people in their pursuit. When they were brought, he cut their hands and feet and their eyes were branded with heated pieces of iron.

This issue has continued to plague ORTHODOX MUSLIMS for decades.

In this link, we can see an Orthodox Muslim making a complete fool of himself, trying hopelessly to argue a point that he doesn't even have:

http://www.biblestudymanuals.net/hadith.htm

D) THE MUSLIM DILEMMA

The reason that we went to such lengths to prove the highest religious authorities of Islam view the Hadith as being inspired and authoritative is that many Muslims will deny this when confronted with some of the obviously absurd teachings of Muhammad.

In one radio program, one Muslim caller argued in a circle as follows:

'Muhammad was Allah's prophet. Therefore he could not have said something so stupid as to suggest that we should drink camel urine. Thus you are a liar, Dr. Morey. The Hadith cannot say this.'

After I went on to prove from the Hadith that Muhammad did indeed recommend camel urine, he responded:

'We Muslims only recognize the Holy Quran as God's Book. We do not accept the Hadith as inspired.'

Of course, he had to deny the inspiration of the Hadith in order to avoid having to defend Muhammad on the drinking of urine.

We understand the dilemma of modern Muslims. While they desperately want to maintain that Muhammad was Allah's apostle, yet the Hadith clearly reveals that Muhammad could not be inspired because he taught many things which are not only patently wrong but absurd.

There are mentionings of this all over the internet. This, in addition to the current world events, has made ISLAM the laughing stock of the religious world.

Regarding the position of Blacks in the HADITH, The Hadith calls Muhammad was a white man, so Black Muslims serve the one they speak against. Meanwhile, the Hadith calls black people "raisin heads" (vol. 1, no. 662 and vol. 9, no. 256) and refers to them as slaves. If someone dreamed of a black woman, she was an evil omen of disease (vol. 9, nos. 162, 163). Muhammad had black slaves (vol. 6, no. 435).

There are numerous other fallacies that the HADITH purports:

*One of the major sins is not to protect oneself from urine. If you pee on yourself you go to hell, yet Muhammad ordered people to drink camel's milk and urine!

*You must not face Mecca when you are defecating. You must not use your right hand to hold or wipe yourself. You must wash your private parts after going to the bathroom.

*Satan stays in the upper part of the nose all night (vol. 4, no. 516)

*Muhammad would spit so followers could smear it on their faces.

*Bad breath, having gas, and yawning are sins when done in Muhammad's presence--I don't think Allah was offended, I think it was Muhammad.

*Muhammad was superstitious and was afraid that evil spirits might enter his body while urinating or defecating. He was also afraid of a strong wind, and kissed and adored black stone in the Kabah. Muhammad thought that placing a green palm leaf on grave of the dead would lesson their pain as they died, and said clean your private parts with an odd number of stones. Believed that Jews were transformed into rats (vol. 4, nos. 524, 569 and chap. 32) and magic.

*Muhammad supposedly had the sexual strength of 30 men.

*There are no recorded miracles of Muhammad in the Quran but when followers saw Muhammad's inferiority to Jesus they started making some up in the Hadith: Muhammad cut the moon in half with a sword, a palm tree cried like a baby because Muhammad wouldn't preach under it, Muhammad made water flow out of his fingernails so that people could drink--the Hadith contradicts itself on how many supposedly people drank it. These "miracles" go on and on.

*Anyone who leaves Islam must be killed (vol. 4, no. 260).

*Women are deficient in intelligence and religion.

*Majority of people in hell are women (vol. 1, nos. 28, 301; vol. 2, no. 161)

*Child looks like the parent that had "discharge first" during intercourse.

*Stars created by Allah to throw at devils as missles.

*Spirits eat dung and bones.

*The earth is flat, and the sun and the earth revolve around each other.

And many other such absurdities.

The insuing conundrum, lies within the fact that if the HADITH is false, then Muslims have been grossly decieved; if the HADITH is truth, and does indeed reflect the words and ideas of MUHAMMAD himself, then Muslim world is REALLY in trouble, for placing their unquestioning belief in the ideas of a mad man.

Personally, I lean towards the former, since the nature of the HADITH and how it is written is questionable from beginning to end (I mentioned this in my previous post).

First of all the Qur'an implies that semen production takes place in the kidney or back area:

"Now let man but think from what he is created! He is created from a drop emitted - Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs:" Sura 86:5-7.

If the QUR'AN actually made such an implication, any believer in such an idea needs a swift kick in the pants.

Luckily though, the verse you supplied does not make such a claim.

It has been long theorized that much of the fluidic regulation of the human body--especially mucous, and sexual fluids, comes from the SPINAL CORD. This has absolutely NOTHING to do with the kidneys, as the kidneys play absolutely no sexual or procreational function in neither males nor females.

Take notice also to the fact that many scholars argue that the verse you sited has been mistranslated. Many contend that "Between the backbone and ribs" should be "between the lions and pelvis", which certainly fits quite well with basic human anatomy, with regards to sexuality.

According to Ibn Kathir, the first Muslims understood this verse to be referring to the sexual fluid provided by both the man and the woman in producing a child. This implies that the first Muslims believed that women contributed actual sperm necessary in determining the characteristics of a child. The ahadith provide additional proof that both Prophet Muhammad (saw) and his followers did in fact assume that a child's characteristics, along with its gender, was the direct result of the sperm contributed by both the male and the female. The Prophet declared:

"As for the resemblance of the child to its parents; if a man has sexual intercourse with his wife and gets a discharge first, the child will resemble the father, and if the woman gets her discharge first, the child will resemble her." (Sahih al-Bukhari, Vol. 4, #546)

That Prophet Muhammad (saw) is speaking of actual female sperm becomes clear from this excerpt from Salih Muslim:

"...He (the Jew) said: I have come to ask you about a thing which no one amongst the people on the earth knows except an apostle or one or two men besides him. The Holy Prophet said: 'Would it benefit you if I tell you that?' He (the Jew) said: 'I would lend ears to that.' He then said: 'I have come to ask you about the child.' The Holy Prophet then said: 'The reproductive substance of man is white and that of woman yellow, and when they have sexual intercourse and the male's substance prevails upon the female's substance, it is the male child that is created by Allah's Decree, and when the substance of the female prevails upon the substance contributed by the male, a female child is formed by the Decree of Allah...' (Sahih Muslim, Book 003, #0614)

Another hadith says,

"If a male's fluid prevails upon the female's substance, the child will be a male by Allah's decree, and when the substance of the female prevails upon the substance contributed by the male, a female child is formed."

Surely this is not referring to dominant and recessive genes at all, as certain Muslims have claimed, but is simply repeating the incorrect belief of Hippocrates that both men and women produce both male and female sperm. The sex of the resulting child is determined by which sperm overwhelms the other in strength or quantity:
"...both partners alike contain both male and female sperm (the male being stronger than the female must originate from a stronger sperm). Here is a further point: if (a) both partners produce a stronger sperm then a male is the result, whereas if (b) they produce a weak form, then a female is the result. But if (c) one partner produces one kind of sperm, and the other produces another, then the resultant sex is determined by whichever sperm prevails in quantity. For suppose that the weak sperm is much greater in quantity than the stronger sperm: then the stronger sperm is overwhelmed and, being mixed with weak, results in a female. If, on the contrary, the strong sperm is greater in quantity than the weak, and the weak is overwhelmed, it results in a male."

As aforementioned in the hadith, Prophet Muhammad (saw) says that the reproductive substance of men is white and that of women is yellow. This sounds very much like the content - yellow and white - that is found inside developing chicken eggs, which Aristotle was known to dissect...

And you do not see this as the absolute epitome of non-sense? Aside form lubrication, what procreational use does that woman's vaginal fluid serve?

And sense when did it come to be called "SPERM"?

SPERM (http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_1861711580/spermatozoon.html)

SPERM has absolutely nothing to do with the female aspect of reproduction.

For Orthodox Muslims to sit there and try to explain this non-sense is tantamount to lunacy.

Such archaic ideas from Islamic Orthodoxy only serve to keep that aspect of humanity in the dark ages; intellectually stymied by superstition (FEAR).

Prior to buying into the Abrahamic legacy, the Acient Arabians (Himyarians, Sabeans, Yememis, etc) were scientists of the highest order; astronomers, geologists, horticulturalists, etc.

How the mighty have fallen, all for the sake of religion :(

MA'SALAAM

IssaEl21

07-01-2005, 03:55 PM

Hadiyth - -- Hadiyth come from the word Hadatha meaning '' Existence Began To Be Had A Newly For The First Time '' Its plural Ahaadiyth . Ahaadiyth are supposedly records of actions , Utterance and customs of The Prophet Muhammad ; Any action done in his presence and the presence of his companions . As the Koran didn't give detains on certain practical matters . The faithful , The follower of Muhammad ,

Relied on the example of Muhammad thus when confronted with A situation in which A certain decision was necessary . Men would relate what The Prophet Muhammad did in the same or similar case . The most reliable Narrator's account would be accepted . As time went on . Many such Narrations were Collected and Written down by several writers . Hence . Forthforming Patterns For Future Generations .

However , Unscruputous Men , Seeking To Advance Their Own Ideas And Cause Disunity In The Communities . Also Produced Their Own Versions Of Hadiyth . If became necessary to record the Ahaadiyth according to the Reliability Of Both The Narrator And The Transmitter . The Authenticity Of Transmission Because As Entirely Separate Sunject And Even In This , There Were Still Many Disagreement . In All The Hadiyth has ---

Cause Much Sectism In Islaam ; And The Koran Itself Even States , ''' Not To Form Into Sects , ( Koran 6;159 ) The Koran Is The Best Hadiyth ( Koran 4;87 ) .

Aqil

07-01-2005, 06:26 PM

In this link, we can see an Orthodox Muslim making a complete fool of himself, trying hopelessly to argue a point that he doesn't even have:

http://www.biblestudymanuals.net/hadith.htm Salaam aqi. This link is a Christian website...and most of what you quoted comes from Robert Morey, a Christian theologian. He is considered a heretic by Islamic scholars. Check out this website:

http://www.pakistanchristianpost.com/articledetails.php?artid=181

Ma Salaam.

SAMURAI36

07-05-2005, 08:56 AM

Salaam aqi. This link is a Christian website...and most of what you quoted comes from Robert Morey, a Christian theologian. He is considered a heretic by Islamic scholars. Check out this website:

http://www.pakistanchristianpost.com/articledetails.php?artid=181

Ma Salaam.

SALAAM AQIL:

I very much took note to that fact, at my time of citing this link, and it's info.

However, the issue remains, that it is not the site that is in the question of validity, but rather the information contained thereon.

Are these not quotes from the HADITH? If they are, then it matters little where who brought them to our attention.

These so-called "ISLAMIC SCHOLARS" (most of which I hold in very little esteem) are notorious for performing the "ANAKIN SKYWALKER" move when confronted with their own issues; they point the finger at everyone else, never once looking at the faults that they have.

Moreover, these so-called "scholars" toss around such labels as "heretic" casually at any and EVERY one whose perspective does not match theirs, and especially those that challenge theirs.

And thus, such a term as "heretic" becomes not only subjective, but also utterly worthless in this (and most other) scenario(s)--only serving to lead us away from the subject at hand.

Speaking of which, returning to the subject at hand......

We are still faced with a very grave spiritual dilemma; what kind of Prophet would tell his faithful believers to drink PISS?

And what kind of "faithful believers" would follow the uncertified gossip of questionable men, with questionable (and often contradictory) ideas?

As the Kemetians used to say: "The blindest Eye, is that which sees All but itself."

MA'SALAAM

Aqil

07-05-2005, 09:57 AM

We are still faced with a very grave spiritual dilemma; what kind of Prophet would tell his faithful believers to drink PISS?From hadith Sahih Bukhari, Vol. 7, Book 71, #590:

Narrated Anas:

"The climate of Medina did not suit some people, so the Prophet ordered them to follow his shepherd, i.e., his camels, and drink their milk and urine (as a medicine). So they followed the shepherd, i.e., the camels, and drank their milk and urine till their bodies became healthy. Then they killed the shepherd and drove away the camels. When the news reached the Prophet he sent some people in their pursuit. When they were brought, he cut their hands and feet and their eyes were branded with heated pieces of iron."

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In his book, The Water of Life: A Treatise on Urine Therapy, John W. Armstrong details numerous case histories of people suffering from gangrene, various types of cancer, diabetes, consumption, disease of the heart valves, Bright's Disease, bladder problems, malaria, fevers, wounds, burns, bronchial asthma, and many other afflictions. While their afflictions vary greatly, all of these patients have one thing in common: They were all cured by drinking their own urine. And as Armstrong says in his book, since Urine Therapy for virtually ailment is virtually the same, no diagnosis is required. All one needs to do is to consume a quantity of urine daily to be set on the road to wellville.

Contrary to the medical opinion that urine contains dead tissue and as such, cannot be assimilated into the body, Armstrong maintained that urine actually contains "flesh, blood, and vital tissues in a living solution." Deemed unfit for the British Army during World War I due to consumption, Armstrong consulted a number of doctors in an attempt to strengthen his weakened physical condition. After years of dead-ends with the British medical establishment, Armstrong set out to affect his own cure.

Feeling week and ill, he recalled the Bible proverb, "Drink waters out of thine own cistern," and began a strict regimen of fasting on his own urine and tap water for a period of 45 days. After breaking the fast, he ate cautiously and continued to drink his urine. The treatment proved to be his deliverance, as he gained weight and saw his energy restored and his skin rejuvenated. He became convinced of the healing properties of urine.

And he's not alone. The history of drinking urine for therapeutic purposes dates back at least to the Holy Roman Empire when great urinal troths were erected in the public squares of each city-state for residents to both contribute to, and benefit from. For centuries European Gypsies have known about the curative properties of pee, using cow urine to cure Bright's Disease (several acute and chronic diseases of the kidneys which produce albumin in urine). It has also been reported that the Yogis and Lamas of Tibet reach extended ages by drinking their own urine.

Through the ages there have been literally thousands of champions of this curious practice: In the early 1800s, a book titled, One Thousand Notable Things describes the use of urine to cure scurvy, relieve skin-itching, cleanse wounds, and many other treatments. An 18th century French dentist praised urine as a valuable mouthwash. In England during the 1860-70s, the drinking of one's own urine was a common cure for jaundice. In more modern times, the Alaskan Eskimos have used urine as an antiseptic to treat wounds.

http://www.wfmu.org/LCD/19/urine.html

Aqil

07-05-2005, 11:50 AM

From an interview with Nawabzadaa Nabiullah Khan by Jalil Amir that was published in the Feb. '99 issue of Jamhooria Islamia:

Q: Tell us about your stay in Saudi Arabia.

A: We embarked on a Umra as team of Jamhooria Islamia leaders. of course, Zia had arranged every convenience for us. We were accommodated in a Sheik's house. He is one of the richest builders in Saudi Arabia. He owns few gold shops in Qatar too. Sheik was a personal friend of Zia Ul Haq. During the time of Zia, we were not politically active. Since Zia did whatever Qazi wanted, there was no need for political power either. Hence we had lot of time. That is the main reason why we stayed 3 full months in Sheik's palace.

This sheik comes from a Bedouin family of southwestern Arabia. He had the habit of drinking camel urine and camel milk early in the morning. I asked him why does he do that? He replied that it is the family tradition as well as Islamic practice that is supported by Prophet Muhammad (saw). I was astounded. But Qazi explained to me that it is true. He told me three or four Hadiths in which the camel urine and camel milk drinking is suggested. So Qazi wanted to drink the camel urine and camel milk along with the Sheik. Since I could not bring up myself to drink the camel urine, I drank only fresh camel milk, which was thick and frothy. But Qazi drank the camel urine and camel milk the same amount and same time as the sheik. Qazi astounded me in this incident. I am amazed by the fact that Qazi was ready to go any length to mould his life in the teachings of the Prophet.

http://www.vinnomot.com/Islam/JamaatAgenda.htm

SAMURAI36

07-05-2005, 12:09 PM

[QUOTE]In his book, The Water of Life: A Treatise on Urine Therapy, John W. Armstrong details numerous case histories of people suffering from gangrene, various types of cancer, diabetes, consumption, disease of the heart valves, Bright's Disease, bladder problems, malaria, fevers, wounds, burns, bronchial asthma, and many other afflictions. While their afflictions vary greatly, all of these patients have one thing in common: They were all cured by drinking their own urine. And as Armstrong says in his book, since Urine Therapy for virtually ailment is virtually the same, no diagnosis is required. All one needs to do is to consume a quantity of urine daily to be set on the road to wellville.

Do you have access to this book? If so, I would ask that you please site some information from this book, in which its author sites a clear, scientific process of how urine cures all of these ailments.

Contrary to the medical opinion that urine contains dead tissue and as such, cannot be assimilated into the body, Armstrong maintained that urine actually contains "flesh, blood, and vital tissues in a living solution."

From this site:
http://www.e-kidneys.net/#urine

Urine is normally amber or straw colored, can have a pH of 4.6 to 8 (although it is normally acidic), contains less than 0.1 gm or protein, and contains less than 0.3 gm of glucose. In 24 hours, 600 to 2500 ml may be voided.

This is basic science at work here. Going back to the HADITH, we are told to mix MILK with URINE.

MILK is an ALKALINE substance. When such a substance is mixed with a completely ACIDIC substance like urine, it becomes completely TOXIC.

Deemed unfit for the British Army during World War I due to consumption, Armstrong consulted a number of doctors in an attempt to strengthen his weakened physical condition. After years of dead-ends with the British medical establishment, Armstrong set out to affect his own cure.

Feeling week and ill, he recalled the Bible proverb, "Drink waters out of thine own cistern," and began a strict regimen of fasting on his own urine and tap water for a period of 45 days. After breaking the fast, he ate cautiously and continued to drink his urine. The treatment proved to be his deliverance, as he gained weight and saw his energy restored and his skin rejuvenated. He became convinced of the healing properties of urine.

That's great, but still physiologically inaccurate?

Why does the body need to expounge nutrients that it so desparately needs? Why on earth would we convince ourselves that there is nothing whatsoever detrimental to come out of/within our urine, and that it is 100% healthy? Since when does the human body work that way?

The human body only washes out what it takes in, ONLY IN EXCESS. A person can have an excessive amount of protein in their urine, if they have been consuming far too much protein to begin with. The same applie to any/all nutrients within the body.

However, that does not mean that it was meant to be reconsumed, and certainly not by way of a substance as acidic as urine no less.

And he's not alone. The history of drinking urine for therapeutic purposes dates back at least to the Holy Roman Empire when great urinal troths were erected in the public squares of each city-state for residents to both contribute to, and benefit from. For centuries European Gypsies have known about the curative properties of pee, using cow urine to cure Bright's Disease (several acute and chronic diseases of the kidneys which produce albumin in urine).

The carryings on of Europeans are not my concern. Let us also take note, that during this very same time period stated, that Europe had succumb to plagues galore.

It has also been reported that the Yogis and Lamas of Tibet reach extended ages by drinking their own urine.

YOGIS do not dwell in TIBET, they dwell in INDIA. Such inaccuracies only lend themselves to the increduous notions presented here.

Through the ages there have been literally thousands of champions of this curious practice: In the early 1800s, a book titled, One Thousand Notable Things describes the use of urine to cure scurvy, relieve skin-itching, cleanse wounds, and many other treatments.

Allow me to clarify something:

The potent nature of urine has, and does have a positive effect as an ANTISEPTIC.

However, just as no one should internally consume HYDROGEN PEROXIDE, which is also a very effective antiseptic, neither should we be consuming urine.

An 18th century French dentist praised urine as a valuable mouthwash. In England during the 1860-70s, the drinking of one's own urine was a common cure for jaundice.

LMAO @ the FRENCH and ENGLISH.

Have you seen most British people's teeth? :puke2:

In more modern times, the Alaskan Eskimos have used urine as an antiseptic to treat wounds.

http://www.wfmu.org/LCD/19/urine.html

I agree, that urine COULD be used to treat external conditions as an antiseptic. But that speaks nothing towards injesting it.

However, this becomes more than just a scientific discussion, and delves into the realm of personal perspective.

My Brother, you have quoted information here, yet you have not told us what YOU prefer in this instance.......

What has been YOUR experience with drinking URINE? I would tell you the same thing I have told numerous Ortheodox Muslims in the past; take a cup, pour some milk of your choosing (cow's, camel's, goat's, etc), and find some urine from your preferred source.

Mix it together, and DRINK IT.

If you are still breathing afterwards (and do not need to have your stomach pumped--which I assure you that you will), then come back and tell me whether this HADITH makes sense TO YOU or not.

MA'SALAAM

SAMURAI36

07-05-2005, 12:10 PM

Aqil

07-05-2005, 01:44 PM

Do you have access to this book? If so, I would ask that you please site some information from this book, in which its author sites a clear, scientific process of how urine cures all of these ailments.Check out the website...

This is basic science at work here. Going back to the HADITH, we are told to mix MILK with URINE.Not "we are told," aqi...The Prophet (saw) told those who became ill because of Medina's climate to drink the milk and urine of the camels as a healing medicine.

MILK is an ALKALINE substance. When such a substance is mixed with a completely ACIDIC substance like urine, it becomes completely TOXIC.The word "alkali" is derived from Arabic a