Christians the world over still celebrate Christmas on December 25th, when astronomers and historians – both secular and ecclesiastical – unanimously agree that December 25th of the year 1 AD was not the authentic date of the birth of Jesus Christ. As a matter of fact, December 25, 1 AD is incorrect in regards to both the day and the year...

The responsibility for this error lies at the door of the Scythian monk Dionysius Exiguus, who made several mistakes and miscalculations. He lived in Rome, and in the year 532 AD he was instructed to fix the beginning of the New Era by working back through the years. But he forgot the year 0, which should have been placed between the years 1 BC and 1 AD. He also overlooked the four years that the Roman Emperor Augustus had reigned under his own name, “Octavian.”

The Biblical tradition gives us this clear indication: “Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea, in the days of Herod the king...” (Matt. 2:1). We know from numerous contemporary sources who Herod was, and when he lived and reigned. In 40 BC, Herod was designated King of Judea by the Romans. His reign ended with his death in 4 BC. Jesus must therefore have been born before 4 BC, as we shall see – but first, the real reason why December 25th was chosen as the birth date of Jesus Christ.

(It should be said here, however, that the choosing of this date for the celebration of Christmas was purely astronomical in nature, and it would take a profound knowledge of astronomy and astrology to fully comprehend the cosmic and esoteric significance of Christmas.)

December 25 is referred to in documents as Christmas Day in the year 354 AD for the first time. Under the Roman Emperor Justinian (ca. 527-565 AD), it was recognized as an official holiday. An old Roman festival played a major part in the choice of this particular day. In ancient Rome December 25th was the “Dies Natalis Invicti,” i.e., the “Birthday of the Unconquered Sun”; the third day after the Winter Solstice, and, at the same time, the last day of the “Feast of Saturnalia,” which had long since degenerated into a week of unbridled carnivals, and therefore a time when the Christians could feel most safe from persecution. Here is its cosmic and esoteric significance:

The Sun enters the sign Capricorn on the 21st of December. This is the lowest point of the Sun’s arc (i.e., 23°27' south declination). In other words, the Sun can go no further south. It is directly below the Earth (or in "Hell"). For three days (the 21st, 22nd and 23rd) he (the Sun or Savior) is stationary, or in darkness (crucified).

And now it is Christmas Eve (the 24th); he (the Sun or Savior) begins to move, and at midnight on the 25th he is born, as the constellation Virgo rises in the eastern hemisphere of the Heavens (hence “born of a virgin”), and 1° Libra (the sign of peace) rises on the eastern horizon of the ecliptic, along the zodiac belt.

The sign Capricorn thus becomes the “manger” in which the Sun (or Savior of the world) is born. This is the cosmic significance and the esoteric interpretation of the celebration of Christmas, or “Christ’s Mass,” i.e., the “Birth of the Sun” Mass...

Whereas, according to the above, the Sun of God is born on December 25th of every year, Jesus Christ, the earthly son of God, was not born on this date. He was born on September 8, 7 BC, having been conceived around the time of the Winter Solstice in 8 BC. He was born under the astrological sign Virgo, which is another cosmic verification of the Biblical expression, “born of a virgin.”

The “immaculate conception” myth was the result of some immaculate deception on the part of some of the Biblical translators, who developed the “virgin birth” idea by misinterpreting a prophecy made by the prophet Isaiah, who lived some 700 years before Jesus was born. The prophecy is found in Isaiah 7:14, which reads: “Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name “Immanuel.” The name “Immanuel” means “God be with us.” As the Bible abounds with occult knowledge, this verse is interpreted esoterically as follows:

The only virgin that can bear a son and still remain a virgin is Virgo, the sign that gives birth to a sun every year between August 23rd and September 23rd.

In his rabbinical writings, Isaac Abravanel (1437-1508), the great Jewish theologian and scholar, states that the ancient astrologers predicted the appearance of the Messiah when there was a conjunction of the planets Jupiter and Saturn in the sign Pisces. Thus it is quite conceivable that the great prophet Isaiah, being skilled in the knowledge of astrology, knew that a great conjunction between Jupiter and Saturn would occur in Pisces – the astrological sign of the ancient Israelites – in 7 BC, the year of the birth of Jesus Christ...

Astronomical records show that in the year 7 BC the planets Jupiter and Saturn formed exact conjunctions three times. Mathematical calculations further establish that these three great conjunctions were clearly visible in the eastern Mediterranean area. The brightness of the light of this great conjunction was the “star” the Biblical Wise Men (who were Chaldean astrologers) saw “in the first rays of dawn,” on the meridian over the city of Bethlehem in Palestine. Having no knowledge of astrology, the Biblical translators had to therefore conceive the “immaculate conception” myth...

Xmas is an abbreviation of the word Christmas...the X representing the Greek letter chi for "Kristos." This abbreviation has been used for hundreds of years. In modern use it is considered informal and appropriate only in such commercial contexts as advertisements and signs...

The concept of Christmas originated in ancient Egypt in the days of King Osiris and Queen Isis around about 3000 BC. After the untimely death of King Osiris, his wife, Isis, propogated the demonic doctrine of the survival of Osiris as a spirit. She claimed a full grown evergreen tree sprang overnight from a dead stump, symbolizing the new life of the Osiris spirit from his death. On each anniversary of Osiris birth, which was the date we now know as December 25th, Isis would leave gifts around this tree.

Isis became the "Queen of Heaven," and Osiris became the reborn "divine son of Heaven." Osiris later became, through the later Phoenicans, Baal, the Sun-god. The "mother and child" became chief objects of worship by the Babylonians, from which it spread over the world under various names, such as, "Cybel" and "Deoius" in Asia, "Fortuna" and "Jupiter" in pagan Rome.

Then during the 4th and 5th century, the Romans, under the new popular "Christianity," popularized the "mother and child" concept especially around Christmas time - from which we have many of the Christmas carols such as "Silent Night, Holy Night" with its familiar "mother and child" theme...

The word "Christmas" is derived from "Mass of Christ" or "Christ's Mass." The Christmas festival came to the Protestants and the secular world from the Roman Catholic church. However, the Roman Catholic church did NOT get Christmas from the original Apostles. It's not even in the Bible...

Now just in case you may think I just have something personally against Christmas, or, as the psychologists would say, "I just had a bad childhood so I feel bad about Christmas," or, even worse, "I belong to a religious cult!"...let us see what the Catholic and secular encyclopedias themselves say about Christmas:

"Christmas was not among the earliest festivals of the Church...the first evidence of the feast is from Egypt."

"Pagan customs centering around the January calends gravitated to Christmas."

"...In the Scriptures, no one is recorded to have kept a feast or held a great banquet on his [Jesus] birthday. It is only sinners who make great rejoicings over the day in which they were born into this world."

Catholic Encyclopedia, 1911 Edition, published by the Roman Catholic Church

"...Christmas was not among the earliest festivals of the church...."

Encyclopedia Britannica, 1946 edition

"Christmas... It was, according to many authorities, not celebrated in the first centuries of the Christian church, as the Christian usage in general was to celebrate the death of remarkable persons [e.g., Communion - death of Christ] rather than their birth..."

"...A feast was established in memory of this event [the birth of Jesus] in the 4th century. In the 5th century the Western Church ordered it to be celebrated forever 'on the day of the old Roman Feast of The Birth of Sol' , as no certain knowledge of the day of Christ's birth existed."

[i] Encyclopedia Americana, 1944 Edition

Christmas was not celebrated by the Church until the 4th century. Christians did NOT celebrate Christmas for the first 300 years - longer than the entire history of the United States of America...

gentleman,

while i find this discourse enlightening and interesting my question here is this. while we are well aware that many different religions were based on concepts from different cultures i am wondering what the underline purpose is of this topic. Aqil, I have respected your information and topics for you, much like Amun-Ra, attempts to stay within the neutral balance of religin. What i mean is that you provide information pertaining Christiantiy as well as Judaism and Islam. But once again, what is the purpose of this information? Is it to dispel the basic tenets of the Chrisitan faith?

there are many facets of the Bible that can be argued as incorrect but the question is how will that change the way one's faith system is structured? Even when we look at the Old Testament, which is found in most religions, there are things that can be assumed to be highly impossible. Such as the parting of the red Sea in Moses era. Or the "Giant size" of Goliath in David and Goliath. How about the "the bush that burned but was not consumed."

Normally i would come in with a slew of information going point for point with inaccuracies but i find that in this forum there is more effort wasted on aligning Christianity with other cultures and beliefs then needs to be. We all have our faith systems whether it be some form of Christianity, Jusdaism, Atheism, Islam, Buddhism or any of the other 350,000 faiths here in the U.S. alone.

We must remember that the Bible, Talmud, and Koran are the "inspired word of God." Who are we to attempt to take that away by proving it factual through the research of historians and astrologers. Astrology was a major part of Biblical times. It actually played a bigger part in the Old Testament than the NT. There has never been a specific date stated in the bible for the Day of birth for Christ. Neither was there a determination of how long a year was when it pertained to a person's age. In biblical times, men lived to be way over 100 years old:
[quote]
Genesis 7:6 Now Noah was six hundred years old when the flood of water came upon the earth

Numbers 33:39 Aaron was one hundred twenty-three years old when he died on Mount Hor.
[\quote]


Please note this is not an attempt to start an argument but to understand the premise behind the information. It just has been a place where subtle attempts are made to disprove the foundations of Christianty and i am just curious as to why.

Het Kemet, thanks for the words. I have read your comments but i did not really pay attention to the scripture references. I still got your back on that...

Over all, i am enjopying the information given just wondering about the purpose...


Aqil, i'm sure you would not take this as a personal attack but as a question of curiosity. We have always had good and respectful discussions and i surely am not attempting to destroy that. This question actually goes out to those who have taken the liberty to not be as cordial as you have been.

One.

dnommo:

Prophet Muhammad (saw) admonished us as Muslims to "seek knowledge from the cradle to the grave." My threads/posts here in this forum are manifestations of my Prophet's admonition. Being a former Christian who has extensively studied the Christian holy book has contributed to my knowledge of the religion, and one of my main purposes is to compare and relate what I was taught and learned as a Christian to what I was taught and have learned as a Muslim.

I am also an astrologer, and much of my religious and philosophical thought is rooted in my knowledge of the cosmic art and divine science of astrology. (See my thread titled, "Astrology: The True Religion.") I am a Capricorn, which means that I will always seek answers...I must know why...it is my nature to seek the bottom line, and reason has to be the root of my religion...

I was greatly inspired upon reading the following Biblical passage, written by King Solomon circa 1035 BC. It contains, imo, some of the most profound words ever written. It can be found in The Apocrypha, a collection of deuterocanonical (i.e., “second law”) books of the Bible, in a book called “The Wisdom of Solomon.” (The word “apocrypha” means “hidden,” and was often applied to books that were withheld from circulation because the authorship was in doubt or the teachings had been questioned.)

The compilers and scripture-makers of the Bible chose instead another book written by Solomon to be included in the canonized Bible, called “The Song of Solomon.” It is actually a love song written by Solomon when he was only 19 years old...and in the honeymoon of a thousand (i.e., 700 wives and 300 concubines) debaucheries! Here are the words of Solomon in his later years, when he was close to God...

“May God grant that I speak with judgment,
and have thoughts worthy of what I
have received,
for He is the guide even of wisdom
and the corrector of the wise.

For both we and our words are in His
hand, as are all understanding and skill in crafts.

For it is He who gave me unerring
knowledge of what exists,
to know the structure of the world and
the activity of the elements;
the beginning and end and middle of
times,
the alternations of the solstices and the
changes of the seasons,
the cycles of the year and the
constellations of the stars,
the natures of animals and the tempers
of wild beasts,
the powers of spirits and the
reasonings of men,
the varieties of plants and the virtues
of roots.

I learned both what is secret and what
is manifest, for wisdom, the fashioner of all things,
taught me. For in her there is a spirit that is:

intelligent, holy,
unique, manifold, subtle,
mobile, clear, unpolluted,
distinct, invulnerable, loving the good,
keen,
irresistible, beneficent, humane,
steadfast, sure, free from anxiety,
all-powerful, overseeing all,
and penetrating through all spirits
that are intelligent and pure and most
subtle.

For wisdom is more mobile than any motion;
because of her pureness she pervades
and penetrates all things.

For she is a breath of the power of God,
and a pure emanation of the glory of
the Almighty; therefore nothing defiled gains
entrance into her.

For she is a reflection of eternal light;
a spotless mirror of the working of God,
and an image of His goodness.

Though she is but one, she can do all things,
and while remaining in herself, she renews all things;
in every generation she passes into holy souls,
and makes them friends of God, and prophets.

For God loves nothing so much as the
man who lives with wisdom.
For she is more beautiful than the sun,
and excels every constellation of the stars.

Compared with the light she is found
to be superior, for it is succeeded by the night;
but against wisdom evil does not prevail.

She reaches mightily from one end of
the Earth to the other,
and she orders all things well.”

(The Wisdom of Solomon, 7: 15-30: 8:1,
Books of the Apocrypha)

I am of the opinion that “The Wisdom of Solomon” should have been included in the canonized Bible instead of “The Song of Solomon.”

I do have an ulterior motive, dnommo...my ulterior motive is truth...

actually just curiosity on my part as to your purpose. those who have an ulterior motive are in a class by themselves. i had read your information constantly and sometimes the question comes up as to where are you going with such info. No harm intended, just needed to ask the question that has visited me many times over.

I agree with you on comparing the different belief systems for i too strive towards that balance as well. Your information gives that perception but i didn't want to assume. My opinion was that you are a theologian (which is not just a Christian concept) and your exegete of the Bible, Koran and Talmud leaves me intrigued. Continue on for i enjoy the readings. I am clear now on where you are coming from. As i said before , it was not asked to incite but to fulfill a curiosity of mine.

thanks for the response...

Oh by the way...i too am a Capricorn who seeks a deeper understanding. I guess this is why we can talk without the constant veil of tension. I tip my hat to you...

Also i have read The Apocrypha and done extensive research for my senior paper a few years back. I too beleive that this book should have been included in the canon. Thanbks for the information.

You're quite welcome, my brother. Your response was received in the spirit that it was sent. So you are also a Capricorn...we are in great strength here! (Destee is also a Capricorn)...The Goat Triumvirate!...:)

Have you read my Capricorn thread?

Opinions in good men is but knowledge in the making...

yes i have and quite interesting it is. a good read indeed...

one.

I like readin you ......quik hooks.....jabbs....combos wheres the
overhand right???? Virgin Birth? Fertilized egg inserted thru the belly button. Hymen intact a "virgin" is pregnant. I prefer the time tested old fashioned multiplicity of positions. And YOU?:jumping: :glasses:

I got as far as Surah # 3 In the Quran To the part where the Prophet stated that "WOMEN ARE JUST LIKE LITTLE CHILDREN> YOU GOTTA BEAT EM ONCE IN AWHILE". Now how do you as a person feel about the backhand upside your mugg? We know the word of the prophet as it is written in surah # 3. What are your words?:rolleyes:

Aqil ... I'm missing you. Happy New Year. Where are you?
Are you okay? Just checking ... :love:

I got as far as surah #3 in the Qur'an...to the part where the Prophet stated that "WOMEN ARE JUST LIKE LITTLE CHILDREN, YOU GOTTA BEAT THEM ONCE IN AWHILE." Now how do you as a person feel about the backhand upside your mug? We know the word of the prophet as it is written in surah #3. What are your words? :rolleyes:Can you specify what the title of the surah is and what ayat?

Originally posted by Destee Aqil ... I'm missing you. Happy New Year. Where are you?
Are you okay? Just checking ... :love: Peace and love my sister. Happy New Year and birthday...all is well...been real, real busy...constructing natal charts and astrological counseling, in addition to writing, intensive research and study...

Hit me up whenever possible...

Peace and love forever!

:heart:

Aqil, Peace lots of LOVE and the Title is "ALI IMRAM" as I remember it. An English translation paragraph by paragraph with the arabic text right next to it for comparason.
From reading your posts and most stimulatin lefs hooks and kicks to the head on home boy Dnommo. You b noin things. So come clean and tell ME bout Islam upside YOUR HEAD:confused: I Gotta believe a person as learned as you KNOWS EXACTLY what im sayin. Askin questions to try to confuse the issue?????
Now put some of that "AQIL" on those fingertips an get to flyin on that keyboard and DEAL WITH THE FAQs:D I'm goin back to my doctor. CISCO this week. OH MY TEAM gonna STEP on the JETS tomarra:toast: :jumping: :rolling:

Aqil, Peace, lots of LOVE, and the title is "AL-IMRAM" as I remember it. An English translation paragraph by paragraph with the Arabic text right next to it for comparison...Al-Imran is the surah you are referring to. It is divided into two parts and contains over 200 ayats. Before I can comment on the alleged words of Prophet Muhammad (saw) that you have proffered, I would need the specific ayat...

Originally posted by Aqil
Peace and love my sister. Happy New Year and birthday...all is well...been real, real busy...constructing natal charts and astrological counseling, in addition to writing, intensive research and study...

Hit me up whenever possible...


Peace and love forever! :heart:

Thank You! I will do just that ... and Happy Birthday to you too :)

Yes ... Peace and Love Forever!

:heart:

Peace,

Actually, NONE of the words of the Prophet (pbuh) are found in the Qur'an...the Qur'an is the Word of Allah.......

and tophat, ask your question again...you want to know what? (I'll attempt to answer it for you)

Peace

From the Catholic Encyclopedia and Encyclopedia Britannica:

Christmas was not among the earliest festivals of the Church...the first evidence of the feast is from Egypt...

Pagan customs centering around the January calends gravitated to Christmas...

In the Scriptures, no one is recorded to have kept a feast or held a great banquet on his [Jesus] birthday. It is only sinners who make great rejoicings over the day in which they were born into this world...

(Catholic Encyclopedia, 1911 Edition, published by the Roman Catholic Church)

Christmas was not among the earliest festivals of the church...

(Encyclopedia Britannica, 1946 edition)

Christmas was, according to many authorities, not celebrated in the first centuries of the Christian church, as the Christian usage in general was to celebrate the death of remarkable persons [e.g., Communion - death of Christ] rather than their birth...

A feast was established in memory of this event [the birth of Jesus] in the 4th century. In the 5th century the Western Church ordered it to be celebrated forever 'on the day of the old Roman Feast of The Birth of Sol,' [i.e., the Sun] as no certain knowledge of the day of Christ's birth existed...

(Encyclopedia Americana, 1944 Edition)

Xmas is an abbreviation And fyi, the concept of Christmas originated in ancient Egypt in the days of King Osiris and Queen Isis around about 3000 B.C. - long before the Christian faith was even thought of!!

...many things can be traced back to Eygpt (Paris, France was also named after Isis)....to pagan Europeans, December 25th was the birth of their sun god Mithra (born out of a rock), and Dec 25th was the winter solstice (shortest day of the year in the northern hemisphere)....Christmas is just one of many pagan European holydays that has been incorporated into Christianity....

...and Christmas was banned in early America colonies....back then, the 'Mass of Christ' or 'Christ's Mass' was much like Mardi Gras (street dancing, drinking, etc, etc)....the Puritans looked it at as being a heathen practice.

^5 DreamFunk...and thank you for the additional information...

There is indeed a reason for the season...

KA
MESS

When i re-org my site I will point this out as the origins of Xmas.

Ashra Kwesi was up here recently and he clearly showed this off of the Temple Walls in Kemet.

Hotep

^5 goraddy...

Christmas was not celebrated by the Church until the 4th century. Christians did NOT celebrate Christmas for the first 300 years - longer than the entire history of the United States of America!!

Aquil is droping that knowledge. I just got one questons. Why would the Christians bring in the Christmass tree and December 25? They must of felt the Egyptian (pagan) religion had something to do with theirs. I mean, God, we can't even get over Jesus first miracle without having it first in Egypt.

On another subject. Why do we have candy canes on our evergreen or pine cone trees? Osiris uses it to get to the top to be with the orion stars.

^5 ACOOLDRE...

Long before the advent of Christianity, plants and trees that remained green all year had a special meaning for people in the winter. Just as people today decorate their homes during the festive season with pine, spruce and fir trees, ancient peoples hung evergreen boughs over their doors and windows. In many countries people believed that evergreens would keep away witches, ghosts, evil spirits and illness.

In the Northern Hemisphere, the shortest day and longest night of the year falls on Dec. 21st or Dec. 22nd, and is called the Winter Solstice. Many ancient peoples believed that the Sun was a god and that winter came every year because the sun god had become sick and weak. They celebrated the Winter Solstice because it meant that at last the sun god would begin to get well. Evergreen boughs reminded them of all the green plants that would grow again when the sun god was strong and summer would return.

The ancient Egyptian sun god Re had the head of a hawk and wore the sun as a blazing disc in his crown. At the time of the Solstice, when Re began to recover from the illness, the Egyptians filled their homes with green palm rushes, which symbolized for them the triumph of life over death...

(From the Winter Solstice (Dec. 21) to the Summer Solstice (June 21) the Sun waxes, for the days increase in length. From the Summer Solstice to the Winter Solstice the Sun wanes, for the days decrease in length. At the Vernal (March 20) and Autumnal (Sept. 23) Equinoxes the Sun reaches exact equilibrium, for the days and nights are of equal length...)

The True Reason For The Season:

The Sun enters the sign Capricorn on the 21st of December. This is the lowest point of the Sun’s arc (i.e., 23°27' south declination). In other words, the Sun can go no further south. It is directly below the Earth (or in "Hell"). For three days (Dec. 21st, 22nd and 23rd) he (the Sun or Savior) is stationary, or in darkness (crucified).

And now it is Christmas Eve (Dec. 24th); he (the Sun or Savior) begins to move, and at midnight on Dec. 25th he is born, as the constellation Virgo rises in the eastern hemisphere of the Heavens (hence “born of a virgin”), and 1° Libra (the sign of peace) rises on the eastern horizon of the ecliptic, along the zodiac belt.

The sign Capricorn thus becomes the “manger” in which the Sun (or Savior of the world) is born. This is the cosmic significance and the esoteric interpretation of the celebration of Christmas, or “Christ’s Mass,” i.e., the “Birth of the Sun” Mass...

Re: The Word 'Virgin' in the Bible:

Several years ago I read that the word “virgin” in the New Testament was mistranslated from a Hellenistic Greek word or phrase. The correct translation was said to be, “a woman of marrying age” (or something similar)…not the “haven’t had sex” definition. I think the Greek word/phrase began with the letter “b” or the equivalent. I wondered how such an error could occur, since Hellenistic Greek is so well understood. I also wondered if the word “virgin” is correctly translated in the Old Testament.

There are two Hebrew words usually translated “virgin” in English. “Bethulah” means “virgin” in the sense that we understand it. It was used in Isaiah 62:5. “Almah” (the word used in Isaiah 7:14) simply means a young woman. Although it is sometimes used in the sense of a sexually pure woman, this is not its exclusive usage. The context will usually point out the correct usage.

The confusion arose when the Greek Septuagint used the Greek word “parthenos” to translate Isaiah 7:14. In the Greek language this word does denote a sexually pure woman, and was the inspiration for the gospel myth of the “virgin birth.”

A look at the context of Isaiah 7:14 reveals that the woman Isaiah was referring to was probably already pregnant, thus pointing out which sense of the word “almah” was intended. In any case, the point of Isaiah’s prophecy was that before the child reached the age of accountability, both Israel and Syria would be desolated (a prophecy that was only partially fulfilled, by the way).

The use of the word “virgin” is not germane in Isaiah’s prophecy. The “sign” was the child, not a miraculous conception. In short, Isaiah’s “sign” was fulfilled in its own context, hundreds of years before anyone thought to apply it in a different sense.

The basic details are given in Ian Wilson’s Jesus The Evidence. Although this is an unlikely source, The Selfish Gene (1989 edition) by Richard Dawkins gives the same basic story. He states: “the point is in fact well known to Biblical scholars, and not disputed by them.” This is what seems to have happened:

The word actually used in Hebrew Scriptures is “almah,” meaning, “young woman.” The Hebrew word which could have been used – but wasn’t – is “bethulah,” which means “virgin.” The Septuagint is a version of the Old Testament prepared in the 3rd century BC by Jewish scholars who translated the Hebrew Scriptures into Greek for the Greek-speaking Jewish community. In translating for the Septuagint, the word “almah” was translated as “parthenos,” the Greek word for virgin.

Thusly, Isaiah’s prophecy in the original Hebrew states that the Messiah would be conceived by an “almah” (young woman), whereas the Greek translation in the Septuagint version of Isaiah refers to a “parthenos” (Gk. “virgin”).

It appears that Matthew’s Gospel attempts to justify Jesus’ divine parentage by claiming fulfillment of a prophecy that was never actually made…

Whereas, the Sun of God (i.e., the center of our solar system) is born on December 25th of every year, Jesus Christ, the earthly son of God, was NOT born on this date. He was born on September 8, 7 BC, having been conceived around the time of the Winter Solstice in 8 BC. He was born under the astrological sign Virgo, which is another cosmic verification of the Biblical expression, “born of a virgin.”

Hi Aqil,

I've stumbled upon this thread. What a coincidence because I've been trying to read up on Mary the mother of Jesus...as many questions have been arising in my head in recent days. I have been curious as to why the concept of Mary's virginity was and still is so important. So much so that she is referred to as the Virgin Mary. Was her virginity her most important characteristic? In fact the fact that Mary was a Virgin (hence chaste and pure etc.) often overrides the IMPORTANT detail that shw was/is the mother of Jesus Christ. Any ideas as to why this may be? It makes me think that there must be more to the biblical concept of virginity than not having had sex! Curiously, Mary(Maryam) is mentioned more in the Quran than in the bible (in fact there is a whole chapter with her name).

Your post about the different possible meanings of "virgin" according to different translations interests me. Please let me know if you know of anywhere I can get more information about this...and thanks for your informative thread.

You're welcome, fanyamambo...and thank you for your interesting comments and queries. It is important to know the truth about Mary's virginity because the Mary of Catholicism is not the Mary of the Bible. The image of Mary, the mother of Jesus, has been changed by Catholicism into something different than the truth, which is that she was a 14-year-old Jewish girl at the time of Jesus' birth. Catholicism presents Mary as the Sinless Virgin, Mother of the Church, Mother of Mercies, Door of Paradise, Our Lady of Fatima, The Virgin of the Poor, Lady of the Roses, Co-Redemptrix, Queen of Peace, Our Lady of Guadalupe, Mediatrix of all Graces, Mother of God, Refuge of Sinners, Gate of Heaven, and more. Thus the necessity of Mary's perpetual virginity in their Catechism...

To reiterate:

The use of the word “virgin” is not germane in Isaiah’s prophecy. The “sign” was the child, not a miraculous conception. In short, Isaiah’s “sign” was fulfilled in its own context, hundreds of years before anyone thought to apply it in a different sense.

The basic details are given in Ian Wilson’s book, Jesus The Evidence. Although this is an unlikely source, The Selfish Gene by Richard Dawkins gives the same basic story. He states: “the point is in fact well-known to Biblical scholars, and not disputed by them.” This is what seems to have happened:

The word actually used in Hebrew Scriptures is “almah,” meaning, “young woman.” The Hebrew word which could have been used – but wasn’t – is “bethulah,” which means “virgin.” The Septuagint is a version of the Old Testament prepared in the 3rd century BC by Jewish scholars who translated the Hebrew Scriptures into Greek for the Greek-speaking Jewish community. In translating for the Septuagint, the word “almah” was translated as “parthenos,” the Greek word for virgin.

Thusly, Isaiah’s prophecy in the original Hebrew states that the Messiah would be conceived by an “almah” (i.e., "young woman"), whereas the Greek translation in the Septuagint version of Isaiah refers to a “parthenos,” which is the Greek word for “virgin.”

It appears that Matthew’s Gospel attempts to justify Jesus’ divine parentage by claiming fulfillment of a prophecy that was never actually made…

Christmas was not celebrated by the Church until the 4th century. Christians did not celebrate Christmas for the first 300 years - longer than the entire history of the United States of America!!!

Just What Does '' Came In Unto Her ' Means ? Well . We Will Have To Search God's Words , The Bible And See , And This Exact Phrase Is Mentioned Only Twice In The Bible In This Exact Form . One In The New Testament In The Book Of Luke 1 ; 28 , One Of The Four Synoptic Gospels Chosen Out Of The Many , Reavealed 56 - 58 . A .D. At Caesare . TheAuther Being Called Lucanus Or Latin Lucas , Luciene , From Latin Lucere '' To Shine '' . Lux Gen . From Lucis '' Light '' Lucidas ' Full 'Of Light Clear , Bright '' Lucerna '' Light , Lamp . Bear In MindThat The Language These


Original Disciple And Companions Spoke Was Not Greek , But The Same As The Old Testament Language . So The Phrase WouldBe The Same As TheOld Testament But Only Translated Into The Greek And The Latin Which Could Make This Confusing . Why I Want To Point That OutRight Here . The Language Would Be The Same. As We Proceed , You Will See Why The Language Are Important . Now . The Second Place This Phrase ''' Came In Unto Her '' Is Mentioned , Is The Old Testament Genesis 38 ; 18 . What Is Important About That Is Genesis The Book Of Genealogy And Creations And Births . Being The First Of The 5 Books Of Moses .


JesusIs Often Identified Through This Line With HisVery Blood And Seed . Being Called Of The Seed Of David John 7 ; 42 . What Does All This Have To Do With This One Phrase And Why Is So Important ? Because It Will Tell You What Physical Being Had Intercourse With Mary To Bring About The Birth Of The Son Of God . You See When You LQQk At The Greek Translation Of Luke 1 ; 28 '' And The Angel Came Into Her ... It Is Translated As ..

CAME IN ; < Greel >>> eiserchomai .. ice - er '. khom - ahee
( 1 ) . To Go Out Or Come In ; To Enter . 2a 1) To Arise , Come Into Existence Begin To Be . 2a3 ) To Come Into Life
UNTO ; < Greek > pros pros
( 1 ) To The Advantage Of . 2 ) At . Near . By . 3 ) To . Towards . With . With Regard To
HER ; < Greek > Autos , ow - tos '
( 1 ) Himself . Herself , Themself , Itself , 2 ) He . She , It , 3 ) The Same .
The Greek Word ice-er'khom - ahee . Means '' To Go Out Or Come In . To Enter '' .
LQQk At The Last Definition '' To Enter '' If You Added This Translation To The Phrase '' Came In Unto Her '' You Would Get '' Entered Into Her '' And That's The Greek . But Before We Go Any Further We Have To Go Back To The Original Language We Go Into Genesis 16 ; 4 '' And He Went In ( bo ) Unto Hagar , And She Conceived ; And When She Saw That She Had Conceived ,


Notice The Exact Same Words Being Used Only In The Original Language Of The Bible . My Point Is '' Unto Her '' In Both Place , You Get The Same Meaning That Some Being Standing There '' Went Or Come Or Entered '' Into Her '' And If In The Case Of Genesis 16 ; 4 . Abraham '' Went In Unto ''Hagar , And She Conceived '' The Hebrew Word There Is Haw - raw '' Conceived , Woman , With Child , Bear , Progenitor , Impregnate '' The Act Of Abraham Going In Unto Hagar Resulted In Childbirth . The Phrase '' Enter Her '' Would Mean A Sexual Intercourse , And The Reason And They Call It The Immaculate Conception , Is Cleared Up By St . John Chapter 1 ; 13 . Where It States This Jesus Was Not Born Out Of The Lust Of Men . It Was A Clean Incident .

Not A Pleasure Incident , A Divine Incident , An Immaculate Incident , The Quote Reads '' Which Were Born Not Of Blood Nor Of The Will Of Flesh Nor Of The Will Of Man But Of God . This Child Was Born In An Immaculate Conception Because The Angel Representing God In The Flesh Was Pure And Not Of This World . For Further Proof . That The Statement '' In Unto Her '' Means A Sexual Intercourse Is Found In Genesis 38 ; 8 , Where '' Judah Said Unto Onan , Go In Unto Thy Brother Wife And Marry Her And Raise Up Seed To Thy Brother . ;.,.. He Was Telling Him To Have A Sexual Intercourse With His Brother Wife To Have A Child And The Same Phrase Is Mentioned .

Throughout The Bible , '' Went In Unto Her '' Simply Meant An Intercourse Sexually To Reproduce '' Am I Saying Mary Was Not A Virgin ? Had Mary Had An Intercourse With An Ordinary Man , She Would Be Classified Not A Virgin . Her Statement Is '' No Man Has Known Me '' And That She Has Been Chosen Above The Woman Of The World . She Was A Virgin Espoused To Joseph According To Luke 1 ; 27 , So She Was A Virgin When The Angel Came To Her . A Virgin Shall Conceive And Have A Child Doesn't Mean That After The Intercourse She Is Still A Virgin . It Meant That TheWoman That Would Bear This Child Would Be A Virgin .

Not A Woman Who Had Already Had Children . And That Whole Concept Was Borrowed From The Book Of Isaiah 7 ; 14
'' Therefore The Yahweh ( Lord ) Himself Shall Give You A Sign , Behold , A Virgin
( al-maw ) Shall Conceive And Bear A Son And Shall Call His Name Emmanuel . The Word Almaw Doesn't Merely Mean Virgin In The Sense Of One Whose Hymen Has Not Been Broken , But Rather '' A Maid Or Newly Married Woman , A Damsel . '' And As You Can See , This Quote Is Not A Prophecy Of Jesus Christ If You Read The Whole Chapter , But A Wife That Isaiah Took Later And This Was A Sign To A King Ahaz Of Syria And Borrowed For The New Testament To Support Their Story .

The Greek They Use In Matthew 1 ; 23 And I Quote '' Behold A Virgin Shall Be With A Child , And Shall Bring Forth A Son And They Shall Call His Name Emmanuel , Which Being Interpreted Is God With Us . The Greek Word For Virgin Here Is Par-than-os And The Definition They Give '' A Marriageable Maiden '' Means Eligible For Marriage , Because She Still Was Unconsummated . '' A Woman Who Has Never Had Sexual Intercourse With A Man . And You Can See From This Second Portion Of The Definition That The New Testament Intentionally Borrowed A Quote From Isaiah 7; 14, Added A New Definition To The Word Virgin , Which Was Almaw


, Give Their Own Which Is Par -than - os , Just To Support Their Beliefs . Changing Word And Altering The Meanings Of God . Something That The Book Of Revelation 22 ;19 Warns Against , Because They Simply Fear The Facts And The Results .They Can't Explain These Happening So They Shroud Them In Terms Like Faith And Belief To Hide The Facts . That This Is No More Then A Re-make Of The Story Of The Immaculate Conception In Egipt Of Isis , The Virgin Whose Huband Osiris Was Killed Before She Had A Child , And An Angelic Being Khonsu Came To Her And Helped Her And She Later Conceived A Son Horus , Who Became Known As The Son Of God .

This Was Recorded 10,500 Year Before Your Book Of Isaiah 7 ; 14 And Matthew 1 ; 23 . It Is Simply A Stolen Story . A Plagiarized Story Of Another Culture The Egiptians . And Being Re-taught To The Original Egiptians In The Form Of A New Religion Called Christianity . To Explain The Christian Fabricated Story . The Angel Gabriel Or The Holy Ghost Entered Mary And Over - Shadowed Her As Luke 1 Verse 35 , Mentions '' And The Angel Answered And Said Unto Her . The Holy Ghost Shall Come Upon Thee , And The Power Of The Highest Shall OverShadow Thee ; Therefore Also That Holy Thing Which Shall Be Born Of Thee Shall Be Called The Son Of God.


'' The Greek Word Used For Come Is ep-er-khom-ahee , Meaning '' To Come Upon , Come On '' Which Means That The Holy Ghost Came Upon Or On Top Of Mary . For The Word Upon In Greek Is Epi - ep - ee . Meaning '' On , In , Unto , To Of Position , Upon '' . So Now We Have The Holy Ghost According To Luke1 ; 25 , Coming In Unto Mary In Luke 1 ; 28 , And In Luke 1 ; 35 , The Holy Ghost Came Upon Her , And OverShadowed Her . Just What Does'' OverShadow '' Means ? Well , The BibleAccording To Luke1 ; 35 Tells Us '' OverShadowed . Which In Greek Is Ep - ee - skee - ad'' Means '' To Lay Upon To Envelope In Shadow '' Now That We Have The Whole '' To Lay Upon , To Envelope In A Shadow '' .

NowThat We Have The Whole Picture , We Can Start Putting The Pieces Together . This Angel That Was Sent From God Came To Mary . Spoke To Her About Having Her Giving Birth To The Son Of God , And Then He Laid Upon Her Or Enveloped A Shadow Upon Her Because He Was Laying Upon , Thus His Shadow Was Upon Her . And Then Artificially Inseminated The Seed Of GodWhich Was ThePackage He CameTo Give Her According To Koran 19 ; 17 - 19 , And Inpregnated Her With The Child Of God Who Was To Be Called The Son Of God / Thehos Equivalent To The Hebrew Word Gods / Eloheem .

So When Referring To Someone Having Sexual Intercourse And Coming In Unto Their Spouse The New Testament Using The Greek Word Ice -er - khom - ahee , Meaning '' To Go Or Come In , To Enter '' . If You Use One Of The Greek Versions To Enter , It Would Be '' To Enter Her '' . Not '' Come In Or Go In Unto Her . What Does The Old Testament Use?
If You Go To The Old Testament In Genesis 38 ; 8 - 9 You Will Read '' And Judah Said Unto Onan , Go In Unto Thy Brother's Wife , And Marry Her , And Raise Up Seed To Thy Brother . And Onan Knew That The Seed Should Not Be His ; And It Came To Pass , When He Went In Unto His Brother's Wife , That He Spilled It On The Ground , Lest That He Should Give Seed To His Brother ''
The Quote Above Uses The Hebrew Word Bo For '' Go In '' And For '' Went In '' . And They Are Making Reference To Onan .

The Son Of Judah To Lay With His Bothers Wife ( Ish - Shaw ) And Marry Her . And Raise A Seed ( Zeh-rah ) By Her . To Compenensated For His Brothers Seed . HowEver , Onan Went In Unto Tamar . And Shaw -khath Meaning '' To Destroy . Corrupt . Ruin , Spoiled '' Spilled His Seed Or Semen On The Ground . This Is Definitly Speaking About Two People Having Sexual Intercourse . Genesis 38 ; 16 States ... And He Gave It Her , And Came In ( Bo ) Unto Her . And She Conceived By Hime '' This Story Is Speaking About Judah , Having Sexual Intercourse With The Harlot Tamar . And The Word Used For '' Came In Is Bo Meaning '' To Go In . Enter , Come . Go . Come In '' .


These QuotesBelow Use The Same Word Bo Meaning '' To Go In . Enter , Come. Go . Comes In '' , Even To The Point Where The Wife Becomes Pregnant . So So It Is Obviously Speaking About Two People Having Sexual Intercourse .
Genesis 16 ; 4 '' And he went in ( bo ) unto Hagar , and she conceived . and when she saw that she had conceived ...
Genesis 29 ;23 '' And it came to pass in the evening . that he took Leah his daughter . and brought her to him ; and he went in unto her .
Genesis 6 ; 4 '' There were giants in the earth in those days ; and also after that . when the sons of God came in ( bo ) unto the daughters of men , and they bare children to them .
2Samuel 11 ; 4 '' And David sent messengers , and took her ; and she came in ( bo)
unto him and he lay with her ;
Esther 2 ; 14 '' In the evening she went , and on the morrow she returned into the second house of the women , to the custody of Shaadhgaz , the king's chamberlatin . which kept the concubines ; she came in ( bo ) unto the king no more, except theking delighted in her .


What Does The Koran Use For The Word '' Came In Unto ? The Koran 19 ; 19 Uses The Word Ahaba Meaning '' To Give , Grant , Endow'' Koran 19 ; 19 ''' He said ; '' Nay , I am only a mesenger from thy Lord ( to announce ) to thee the gift of a holy son '' The Angel Gabriel Didn't Use The Word Atiy Meaning '' To Give . To Present , Or Hand Over '' . Nor Did He Use Ahdara Meaning '' Bringing '' The Arabic Word Used Again Was Ahaba Meaning '' To Give , To Grant , To Endow . Other Forms Of This Word Ahaba Is Wahaba '' To Give . Donate . To Grant , Accord , To Present '' Mawhiba '' Given .

Granted . Gifted , Talented '' And . Waahib '' Giver . Donor '' Am I Telling You That The Greatest Story Ever Told Is A Lie ? Well , TheFact Is That The Very Staement The Greatest Story Tells You It's Just That . That's Why It's Often Called X-mas , A Ritual That Never Happened As They Said . This Is Why They Have Found Horus ' Body But Not Jesus ' . They Have Found Isis ' Body But Not Mary 's They Have Found Osiris ' Body But Not Joseph Or Jehovah , And They Will Tell You That's Because God Took Him Up . If God Took Jesus Up Bodily . Then Heaven Is A Material Place , A Physical Place , Not A Spiritual Place . And John 4 ; 24 , And Philippians 3 ; 3 Matched With Matthew 6 ; 9 Where It State '' our father who art in heaven '' . If God The Father Is In Heaven , Then God's Throne Is In Heaven Matthew 5 ;34 , And We AreTo Worship God In Spirit .

And When Jesus Was On The Cross At Calvary . He Didn't Send His Body To Heaven . John 19 ; 30 Clearly States . From The Cross '' it is finished , and he bowed his head and gave up . the ghost '' or die . His head went down , his ghost or spirit went up . And Luke 23 ; 47 Supports The Word Spirit Being The Ghost Because It States '' and when Jesus had cried with a loud voice . he said father into thy hands I commend my spirit , and having said thus . he gave up the ghost '' So The God That Jesus Returned To As His Father . His Throne In Heaven Is A Spiritual Abode . So Which Is It ? Jesus Goes Up Bodily To A Physical Place Or Jesus Goes Up Ghostly John 19 ; 30 . To A Spiritual Place Or Like Earth ? Is It Both Like The Ancient Egiptian Taught ? So The Question Comes Up To You , Jesus Left His Body Here ? His Body Was Put In A Tomb . Someone Stole The Body As Mary Magdelene Put It .

Then She Spoke With Jesus In The Garden And Discovered It Was Him John 20 ; 15 . Eight Days Later He Appeared In The Upper Room Hungry Ready To Eat John 20 ; 26 . Get Seen By The Disciples Bathe Naked John 21 ; 7 . All Of This Was The Crucifxion . Resurrected Spirit Do Not Have To Eat Meant John 21 ; 5 , Luke 24 ; 31 . Spirit Do Not Have To Show You Physical Wounds John 20 ; 25 . You Don't Have To Remove A Stone To Remove A Spirit ' Body Out Matthew 28 ; 2 . A Spirit Body Wouldn't Have To Disguise Himself As A Gardener John 20 ; 15. ARE YOU GETTING POINT ? You Have Been Fed Misinformation Intentionally To Keep You Away From The Truth , That All Of These Come Out Of Ancient Egipt About An Egiptian Deity Called The Son Of God Or Horus ;..

As-Salaamu-Alaikum, aqi...and shokran for your enlightening comments. I know that it is common knowledge among historians and theologians alike that celebrations on December 25th of a Christmas-like nature were taking place all over the world centuries before the birth of Jesus Christ. This date has always been astronomically and spiritually understood as the birth date of all great saviors and redeemers.

In India, for example, this period was one of great rejoicing, at which time the people decorated their homes with garlands and gave freely of gifts. In China too, the Winter Solstice was a holy time during which shops and courts were closed, and all business activity was suspended.

The birth date of the great Persian sun god Mithras was December 25th. The early Christian church – in a very direct fashion – borrowed this date as the birth date of its own savior as a genuine result of the contact between the two religions (Mithraism and Christianity), at a time when both were growing in popular appeal throughout the Roman Empire.

This adoption of the date December 25th was accepted by the church for strategic reasons, despite having no traditional or scriptural precedent to associate even this time of the year with the actual birth date of Jesus. Yet this was not an unusual pattern, nor was the choice an arbitrary one.

The great Egyptian god Osiris, the son of the Holy Virgin, was also said to have been born on December 25. And the Greeks celebrated this day as the birth of Hercules. Still in more acceptance was the tradition that Dionysus, the Greek god of wine, and Adonis, the youthful savior, were to celebrate their birthdays on December 25.

Historically, Adonis was called “Tammuz” by the ancient Israelites of Abysinnia (present-day Ethiopia). His celebration took place ceremonially in a cave-dwelling in the town of Bethlehem, which was regarded as his birthplace! Tammuz was esteemed as “good bread” for the soul. The word “Bethlehem” means “house of bread,” or "house of Tammuz," and his name still designates the 4th month of the Jewish calendar.

(Tammuz is astronomically attuned to the time of the Summer Solstice, when the Sun reaches its greatest northern declination, and is astrologically attuned to the sign Cancer, which rules the African continent.)

The Egyptians also worshipped Tammuz as the setting sun. His name means literally “our Lord,” as does the Greek “Adonis,” and the ancient Israelites wrote many Psalms for Tammuz, as part of their liturgical services were offered in his name. One such example remains in the Old Testament as the 110th Psalm...

Meanwhile, Dionysus was later to become a big favorite with the Romans as Bacchus, their god of wine. Thus the term “bacchanalia,” used to describe a celebration feast even more frenzied than the week-long “Feast of Saturnalia,” which always began on December 17th.

All of the above may come as a surprising revelation to the modern-day Christian, but it has been common knowledge among historians and theologians for centuries. It is also common knowledge among learned religionists that nearly all other dates for Christian holidays are set based upon those of previous religions. Even in England and Ireland, the Druids had for centuries been celebrating the great day of December 25th. In other words, there has always been a Christmas, regardless of whether or not it was known as "Christmas." (The word is a shortened form of "Christ’s Mass," i.e., the Mass of Christ.)

The astronomical event and inspiration for all these diverse (yet similar) religious celebrations is the Sun’s transit across the Winter Solstice on Dec. 21st. This time is symbolically the world’s “darkest hour” – the longest night of the year. To the peoples of the Northern Hemisphere (where all our present-day religions originated) the Sun is directly below the Earth at midnight on December 25th. Concurrently the constellation Virgo - the celestial Virgin - stands upon the horizon in the Eastern Hemisphere of the Heavens...

From this point the Sun of the New Year is "born," and begins its journey back to the Northern Hemisphere to save that part of humanity from the dark and famine which would certainly be inevitable were the Sun not to return from south of the equator in time to banish the cold of winter. Thus December 25th becomes traditionally the birthplace of all saviors – all suns of God. The Sun is so-sent as a gift to mankind and for his salvation. What greater event, as cause for celebration, occurs in the Heavens?

Ma Salaam.

Xmas is an abbreviation of the word Christmas...the X representing the Greek letter chi for "Kristos." This abbreviation has been used for hundreds of years. In modern use it is considered informal and appropriate only in such commercial contexts as advertisements and signs...

The concept of Christmas originated in ancient Egypt in the days of King Osiris and Queen Isis around about 3000 BC. After the untimely death of King Osiris, his wife, Isis, propogated the demonic doctrine of the survival of Osiris as a spirit. She claimed a full grown evergreen tree sprang overnight from a dead stump, symbolizing the new life of the Osiris spirit from his death. On each anniversary of Osiris birth, which was the date we now know as December 25th, Isis would leave gifts around this tree.

Isis became the "Queen of Heaven," and Osiris became the reborn "divine son of Heaven." Osiris later became, through the later Phoenicans, Baal, the Sun-god. The "mother and child" became chief objects of worship by the Babylonians, from which it spread over the world under various names, such as, "Cybel" and "Deoius" in Asia, "Fortuna" and "Jupiter" in pagan Rome.

Then during the 4th and 5th century, the Romans, under the new popular "Christianity," popularized the "mother and child" concept especially around Christmas time - from which we have many of the Christmas carols such as "Silent Night, Holy Night" with its familiar "mother and child" theme...

Wow, this "knowledge" is atrocious........Not to mention FALSE. :confused:

No wonder my people die for the lack of knowledge.

HOTEPU

"Xmas" is an abbreviation of the word Christmas...the X representing the Greek letter chi for "Kristos." This abbreviation has been used for hundreds of years. In modern use it is considered informal and appropriate only in such commercial contexts as advertisements and signs...

The concept of Christmas originated in ancient Egypt in the days of King Osiris and Queen Isis around about 3000 BC. After the untimely death of King Osiris, his wife, Isis, propogated the demonic doctrine of the survival of Osiris as a spirit. She claimed a full grown evergreen tree sprang overnight from a dead stump, symbolizing the new life of the Osiris spirit from his death. On each anniversary of Osiris birth, which was the date we now know as December 25th, Isis would leave gifts around this tree.

Isis became the "Queen of Heaven," and Osiris became the reborn "divine son of Heaven." Osiris later became, through the later Phoenicans, Baal, the Sun-god. The "mother and child" became chief objects of worship by the Babylonians, from which it spread over the world under various names, such as, "Cybel" and "Deoius" in Asia, "Fortuna" and "Jupiter" in pagan Rome.

Then during the 4th and 5th century, the Romans, under the new popular "Christianity," popularized the "mother and child" concept especially around Christmas time - from which we have many of the Christmas carols such as "Silent Night, Holy Night" with its familiar "mother and child" theme...Wow, this "knowledge" is atrocious...not to mention FALSE. No wonder my people die for the lack of knowledge.What is the source of your information? Here is another point d'appui re: my post from http://www.church-of-the-lukumi.org/christmas1.htm

"The origin of Christmas is traced back to ancient Egypt in the days of King Osiris and Queen Isis, about 3000 BC. After the death of King Osiris, his wife propagated the doctrine of the survival of Osiris as a spirit-being. She established the idea that a full-grown evergreen tree sprang overnight from a dead stump symbolizing the springing forth unto new life of Osiris. On each anniversary of his birth, she claimed, Osiris would visit the evergreen tree and leave gifts upon it. December 25th was the birthday of Osiris reborn as the son Horus. Therefore this became the origin of the Christmas tree. Moreover, the concept of mother and child (i.e., Isis and Osiris) became objects of worship spreading into many nations. The "madonna" idea became especially popularized every Christmas season. Several of the most popular hymns originated from pagan customs and beliefs that were incorporated. The ancient celebration on December 25th honors the birth of the reborn son Horus and not the birth of Jesus. The apostles and early Church never celebrated Christ’s birthday..."

What is the source of your information? Here is another point d'appui re: my post from http://www.church-of-the-lukumi.org/christmas1.htm

"The origin of Christmas is traced back to ancient Egypt in the days of King Osiris and Queen Isis, about 3000 BC. After the death of King Osiris, his wife propagated the doctrine of the survival of Osiris as a spirit-being. She established the idea that a full-grown evergreen tree sprang overnight from a dead stump symbolizing the springing forth unto new life of Osiris. On each anniversary of his birth, she claimed, Osiris would visit the evergreen tree and leave gifts upon it. December 25th was the birthday of Osiris reborn as the son Horus. Therefore this became the origin of the Christmas tree. Moreover, the concept of mother and child (i.e., Isis and Osiris) became objects of worship spreading into many nations. The "madonna" idea became especially popularized every Christmas season. Several of the most popular hymns originated from pagan customs and beliefs that were incorporated. The ancient celebration on December 25th honors the birth of the reborn son Horus and not the birth of Jesus. The apostles and early Church never celebrated Christ’s birthday..."


December 25th was the birthday of Osiris reborn as the son Horus.

:bingo:

Jesus became a personification of Horus. All living Egyptian kings were horus.Therefore, Jesus was an Egyptian, not Jewish King. And he was killed not by Romans but Egyptians in 1352 BC not 33 AD

Jesus became a personification of Horus. All living Egyptian kings were horus.Therefore, Jesus was an Egyptian, not Jewish King. And he was killed not by Romans but Egyptians in 1352 BC not 33 AD



Peace Ac,

if as you say that Jesus was killed in 1352 BC., can you please explain a little further on how that could be for those who have never heard that b4?

Jesus became a personification of Horus. All living Egyptian kings were horus.Therefore, Jesus was an Egyptian, not Jewish King. And he was killed not by Romans but Egyptians in 1352 BC not 33 AD


brother AACOOLDRE, in all due respect...can you name ONE credible AFRICAN historian or archaeologist who can substantiate the claim that Jesus/King Tutankhamen are one and the same.

And notice I said AFRICAN...Ahmed Osman is an ARAB.

Peace Ac,

if as you say that Jesus was killed in 1352 BC., can you please explain a little further on how that could be for those who have never heard that b4?

His statement is based on the assertion that Jesus/King Tutankhamen are one and the same historical Pharaoh.

His statement is based on the assertion that Jesus/King Tutankhamen are one and the same historical Pharaoh.


Right brother, jus wanted to hear him explain exactly whom he was referring too & why before I responded..........

TY.......peace

The fact is, December 25 is referred to in documents as Christmas Day for the first time in the year 354 AD. Under the Roman Emperor Justinian (ca. 527-565 AD) it was recognized as an official holiday. An old Roman festival played a major part in the choice of this particular day. In ancient Rome December 25th was the “Dies Natalis Invicti,” i.e., the “Birthday of the Unconquered Sun”; the third day after the Winter Solstice, and, at the same time, the last day of the “Feast of Saturnalia,” which had long since degenerated into a week of unbridled carnivals, and therefore a time when the Christians could feel most safe from persecution. Here is its cosmic and esoteric significance:

The Sun enters the sign Capricorn on the 21st of December. This is the lowest point of the Sun’s arc (i.e., 23°27' south declination). In other words, the Sun can go no further south. It is directly below the Earth (or in "Hell"). For three days (the 21st, 22nd and 23rd) he (the Sun or Savior) is stationary, or in darkness (crucified).

And now it is Christmas Eve (the 24th); he (the Sun or Savior) begins to move, and at midnight on the 25th he is born, as the constellation Virgo rises in the Eastern Hemisphere of the Heavens (hence “born of a virgin”), and 1° Libra (the sign of peace) rises on the eastern horizon of the ecliptic, along the zodiac belt. Translation: Peace on Earth and goodwill to all men...

The sign Capricorn thus becomes the “manger” in which the Sun (or Savior of the world) is born. This is the cosmic significance and the esoteric interpretation of the celebration of Christmas, or “Christ’s Mass,” i.e., the “Birth of the Sun” Mass...

Whereas, according to the above, the Sun of God is born on December 25th of every year, Jesus Christ, the earthly son of God, was not born on this date. He was born on September 8, 7 BC, having been conceived around the time of the Winter Solstice in 8 BC. He was born under the astrological sign Virgo, which is another cosmic verification of the Biblical expression, “born of a virgin.”

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus by the Supreme Being as his father - in the womb of a virgin - will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter."

(Thomas Jefferson, 1823)

A few things need to be clarified.

As you know the stars and planets have no dates on them. They move in measurable precision. However, the occurance, names and days of months is a totally arbitrary human invention that has not remained constant over the years.

Lest anyone doubt what Brotha Aqil is teaching us I'd like to add a few details that will put to rest any question about how the ancients knew anything about December much less December 25.

The designation of December 21 (22 during some years) for the winter solstice was not until the Gregorian calendar was introduced in 1582. Before that time the Julian calendar was used in the western world. Under the Julian calendar the winter solstice occured on December 25. That's why christmas occurs on the 25 rather than the current date of the winter solstice. Although the Romans lined christmas with the solstice under the Julian calendar, when Europe graduallyy shifted over to the Gregorian calender they did not change the date of Christmas to line up with the new date for the solstice, most likely to hide and/or renounce its pagan origins.

Solstice literally means when the sun stands still. Of course the sun itself doesn't stand still (nothing in the universe stands still - probably the universe itself does not stand still but we have no points of reference by which to perceive its movement) but the way the earth is tilted on its axis creates the illusion that the sun moves from pole to pole during the course of the year and when it reaches its most extreme point at either pole, 23 degrees 27 minutes, it stops and starts its swing back to the other pole. But it doesn't start back right away. The tilt of the earth and its rotation and revolustion combine to create a perceptual delay of three days. As the brotha says it stands still (is dead) for three days and then rises again. This, along with the rising Virgo constellation, presents an interesting connection between the birth and death of Christ.

I've known about the proximity of christian celebrations to pagan ones for some time but like most christians I excused this as their attempts to avoid persecution. However when Rome converted to christianity the persecution stopped at least for the western branch of the church. The concurrance of christmas with the birth of the sun god is a clear effort by the newly converted still very much pagan Romans to retain their pagan traditions within the politically advantageous teachings of Judeo=christianity.

I must add to what I've said above for one mystery still remains.

One might ask. Since the winter solstice was on December 25 under the Julian calendar why weren't the ancients celebrating the rebirth three days later? Why were they celebrating the solstice (death) of the sun?

The ancients celebrated the rebirth of the sun three days after the solstice. Exactly why the christians of Rome would choose to celebrate the birth of Christ in concurrence with the death of the sun god is perhaps due to other factors such as their worship of Saturn.

Why were they celebrating the solstice (death) of the sun?The Winter Solstice celebrates the rebirth of the Sun, not its death...

The precise moment of the Winter Solstice this year will be Wednesday, December 21, 2005 at 1:35 p.m. (EST), when the Sun enters the sign Capricorn. It marks the beginning of winter in the Northern Hemisphere and summer in the Southern Hemisphere. In astronomy, the Solstice is either of the two times a year when the Sun is at its greatest distance from the celestial equator, the great circle on the celestial sphere that is on the same plane as the Earth's equator.

In the Northern Hemisphere, the Winter Solstice occurs either December 21 or 22, when the Sun shines directly over the Tropic of Capricorn; the Summer Solstice occurs either June 21 or 22, when the Sun shines directly over the Tropic of Cancer. In the Southern Hemisphere, the Winter and Summer Solstices are reversed. (The word "solstice" is derived from the Latin "solstitium," from "sun and sistere," meaning "sun stand still"). During the year, the position of the Sun as seen from Earth moves north and south. When it changes direction it "stands still" momentarily.

The reason for the different seasons at opposite times of the year in the two Hemispheres is that while the Earth rotates aroud the Sun, it also spins on its axis, which is tilted some 23.5 degrees towards the plane of its rotation. Because of this tilt, the Northern Hemisphere receives less direct sunlight (creating winter) while the Southern Hemisphere receives more direct sunlight (creating summer). As the Earth continues its orbit the Hemisphere that is angled closest to the Sun changes and the seasons are reversed.

The Winter Solstice marks the shortest day and the longest night of the year. The Sun appears at its lowest point in the sky, and its noontime elevation appears to be the same for several days before and after the Solstice. Following the Winter Solstice, the days begin to grow longer and the nights shorter.

Christians the world over still celebrate Christmas on December 25th, when astronomers and historians – both secular and ecclesiastical – unanimously agree that December 25th of the year 1 AD was not the authentic date of the birth of Jesus Christ. As a matter of fact, December 25, 1 AD is incorrect in regards to both the day and the year...

The responsibility for this error lies at the door of the Scythian monk Dionysius Exiguus, who made several mistakes and miscalculations. He lived in Rome, and in the year 532 AD he was instructed to fix the beginning of the New Era by working back through the years. But he forgot the year 0, which should have been placed between the years 1 BC and 1 AD. He also overlooked the four years that the Roman Emperor Augustus had reigned under his own name, “Octavian.”

The Biblical tradition gives us this clear indication: “Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea, in the days of Herod the king...” (Matt. 2:1). We know from numerous contemporary sources who Herod was, and when he lived and reigned. In 40 BC, Herod was designated King of Judea by the Romans. His reign ended with his death in 4 BC. Jesus must therefore have been born before 4 BC, as we shall see – but first, the real reason why December 25th was chosen as the birth date of Jesus Christ.

(It should be said here, however, that the choosing of this date for the celebration of Christmas was purely astronomical in nature, and it would take a profound knowledge of astronomy and astrology to fully comprehend the cosmic and esoteric significance of Christmas.)

December 25 is referred to in documents as Christmas Day in the year 354 AD for the first time. Under the Roman Emperor Justinian (ca. 527-565 AD), it was recognized as an official holiday. An old Roman festival played a major part in the choice of this particular day. In ancient Rome December 25th was the “Dies Natalis Invicti,” i.e., the “Birthday of the Unconquered Sun”; the third day after the Winter Solstice, and, at the same time, the last day of the “Feast of Saturnalia,” which had long since degenerated into a week of unbridled carnivals, and therefore a time when the Christians could feel most safe from persecution. Here is its cosmic and esoteric significance:

The Sun enters the sign Capricorn on the 21st of December. This is the lowest point of the Sun’s arc (i.e., 23°27' south declination). In other words, the Sun can go no further south. It is directly below the Earth (or in "Hell"). For three days (the 21st, 22nd and 23rd) he (the Sun or Savior) is stationary, or in darkness (crucified).

And now it is Christmas Eve (the 24th); he (the Sun or Savior) begins to move, and at midnight on the 25th he is born, as the constellation Virgo rises in the eastern hemisphere of the Heavens (hence “born of a virgin”), and 1° Libra (the sign of peace) rises on the eastern horizon of the ecliptic, along the zodiac belt.

The sign Capricorn thus becomes the “manger” in which the Sun (or Savior of the world) is born. This is the cosmic significance and the esoteric interpretation of the celebration of Christmas, or “Christ’s Mass,” i.e., the “Birth of the Sun” Mass...
Whereas, according to the above, the Sun of God is born on December 25th of every year, Jesus Christ, the earthly son of God, was not born on this date. He was born on September 8, 7 BC, having been conceived around the time of the Winter Solstice in 8 BC. He was born under the astrological sign Virgo, which is another cosmic verification of the Biblical expression, “born of a virgin.”

The “immaculate conception” myth was the result of some immaculate deception on the part of some of the Biblical translators, who developed the “virgin birth” idea by misinterpreting a prophecy made by the prophet Isaiah, who lived some 700 years before Jesus was born. The prophecy is found in Isaiah 7:14, which reads: “Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name “Immanuel.” The name “Immanuel” means “God be with us.” As the Bible abounds with occult knowledge, this verse is interpreted esoterically as follows:

The only virgin that can bear a son and still remain a virgin is Virgo, the sign that gives birth to a sun every year between August 23rd and September 23rd.

In his rabbinical writings, Isaac Abravanel (1437-1508), the great Jewish theologian and scholar, states that the ancient astrologers predicted the appearance of the Messiah when there was a conjunction of the planets Jupiter and Saturn in the sign Pisces. Thus it is quite conceivable that the great prophet Isaiah, being skilled in the knowledge of astrology, knew that a great conjunction between Jupiter and Saturn would occur in Pisces – the astrological sign of the ancient Israelites – in 7 BC, the year of the birth of Jesus Christ...

Astronomical records show that in the year 7 BC the planets Jupiter and Saturn formed exact conjunctions three times. Mathematical calculations further establish that these three great conjunctions were clearly visible in the eastern Mediterranean area. The brightness of the light of this great conjunction was the “star” the Biblical Wise Men (who were Chaldean astrologers) saw “in the first rays of dawn,” on the meridian over the city of Bethlehem in Palestine. Having no knowledge of astrology, the Biblical translators had to therefore conceive the “immaculate conception” myth...

Here we go again.....