Peace and Blessings Family,

I'm wondering, do we ... Sisters ... teach our Sons what to want in a woman?

Do we teach them to want white women, because we strive to be like them?

Specifically, our hair. We seem to collectively hate our own hair, killing it to look (limp) like theirs ... soon out of the womb.

We complain about Brothers w/white women ... but ironically ... we alter our hair's chemical make-up, to be like them.

Do we plant the seed in our Sons' minds, letting them know, what is beautiful ... as they watch us strive to attain it?

If we want our sons to want Black women, shouldn't we set the example by fully embracing all that we are?

How can we expect them to appreciate our unique-ness, if we don't?

How can they know how to want us, if we don't want ourselves?

:heart:

Destee

The below tells us we have a lot of work cut out for us.

The Breaking Process Of The African Woman:
What Every Black Woman Should Read

Take the female, run a series of tests on her to see if she will submit to your desires willingly. Test her in every way because she is the most important factor for good economics. If she shows any sign of resistance in submitting completely to your will, do not hesitate to use the bullwhip on her to extract the last bit of ***** out of her. Take care not to ill her, for, in doing so, you spoil good economics. When in complete submission, she will train her offspring in he early years to submit to labor when they become of age.

Understanding is the best thing. Therefore, we shall go deeper into this area of subject matter concerning what we have produced here in this breaking process of the female ******. We have reversed the relationships. In her natural uncivilized state she would have s strong dependency on the uncivilized ****** male, and she would have a limited protective tendency toward her independent male offspring and would raise the female offspring to be dependent like her. Nature had provided for this type of balance.

We reversed nature by burning and pulling one civilized ****** apart and bull whipping the other to the point of death - all in her presence. By her being left alone, unprotected, with the male image destroyed, the ordeal caused her to move from her psychological dependent state to a frozen independent state. In this frozen psychological state of independence she will raise her male and female offspring in reverse roles. For fear of the young male's life, she will psychologically train him to be mentally weak and dependent but physically strong.

Because she has become psychologically independent, she will train her female offspring's to be psychologically independent. What have you got? You've got the ****** woman out front and the man behind and scared. This is a perfect situation for sound sleep and economics.

Before the breaking process, we had to be alertly on guard at all times. Now we can sleep soundly, for out of frozen fear, his woman stands guard for us. He cannot get past her infant salve process. He is a good tool; now ready to be tied to the horse at a tender age.

By the time a ****** boy reaches the age of sixteen, he is soundly broken in and ready for life's sound and efficient work and the reproduction of a unit of good labor force.

Continually, though the breaking of uncivilized savage *******, by throwing the ****** female savage into a frozen psychological state of independency, by killing of the protective male image by creating a submissive dependent mind of the ****** male savage, we have created an orbiting cycle that turns in its own axis forever, unless a phenomenon occurs and reshift the positions of the female savages. We show what we mean by example. Take the case of the two economic slaves units and examine them closely.

Source from: The Willie Lynch Letter And the Making of A Slave, Published by Lushena Books: Chicago, IL.

Afro Interpretation

Break the Black female by humiliating the Black male before her and she will subconsciously teach her children to see the Black male in a less attractive light. Do this for years at a time and soon you have a Black race run by women with a weakened Black male image.

Taking notice of the state of Black-America today and realize that this plot has worked to the point where the Black man is in tight competition with the Black woman where it pertains to economic status and success as well as in the educational spectrum. The overwhelming amount of Black single-parent families and female-headed households attest to this fact.

The hundreds of thousands of Black men being raised by Black women are either reluctant to stand against the white man and are rather programmed as workers or are too subservient and naive to see the ills being inflicted on him and his entire race.

Restrain any Black male (or female) from standing up and speaking out about these ills and the Black race has no means of learning what is happening. Pay off, bribe, and or compromise with any Black male that tries to enlighten his people and you have a modern day Uncle Tom who further adds to the destruction of the Black race.

© 2004 by C.R. Hamilton-


-----------------------------------------
Beloved Ones:

Can we talk? Please lets always define words, the ones that are powerless and the words that has power.

WANT-Temporary and belongs to the ways of the world. Short term, short lived, waivers, doubts, ifs, ands, buts...and the likes of.

WANT will have us wanting more and more that eventually end up being stuff.

NEED-Eternal, everlasting, long-term, long- live, perpetual, etc..

When we have that which is vital and essential, which is NEED, all that we could ever want is already wrapped up in the NEEDS, and we will not go without.

For example: I have a roof over my head. It may not be like the Jones's. Why would I buy one house say 250,000 to live in three, the price that can build 3-4 houses depending on where one lives? I wnat it, I do not NEED it.

I have a car that may not be fancy like the Jones's, yet it gets me where I need to go. I need a car not something fancy with high car payments.

I do not want to go to work, but I NEED to go to work.

We often want to stay in our human being mind-set (WANT), which is holding us back, yet we NEED to get back in our Divine right mind-set.

Want and Need is like Oil and water. Want will start off with the non-sensical five senses and once activated, want will lead us down the trail of feelings, and then on the emotional roller coaster, and once on these tracks where there is no harmony, balance, and order within (NEED), we end up with stuff we do not need, and we then must struggle to get rid of that which lead us into temporary urges not permanent NEEDS.

We NEED to go or do all that we know to do for Afrika/Afrikans, yet we WANT to stay and build up the burning house (america) where we have never been even wanted.
---------------------------------------------------

QG Destee: I'm wondering, do we ... Sisters ... teach our Sons what to want in a woman?

Auset: I'm wondering, do we ... Sisters ... teach our Sons what to NEED in a woman?

QG destee: Do we teach them to want white women, because we strive to be like them?

Auset: We contribute to them wanting anything outside of their True selves, because of our own artificialities. Products of our environment. I think that I can speak for ALL TRUE Black males when I say that they the TRUE Black males is tired of the artificialities period. We should all be tired of artificialities, because it is when we do so then we can return back to our Divine True reality, where there is Truth about ALL things, the way we once were, and still can be again, because we are in control of defining our selves, not this european system defining us.

Black Women, the Destiny of the Women is the Desiny of the world, and a nation will rise no higher than its women.

Black goddesses, is the teacher in us Absent fom class or been suspended? Like a police officer. It is time to Arrest our wrong mind-set, and develop the right mind-set. It is time ot Strip Search ourselves of all artificialities. Like a plane, it is time to hijack our wrong mind-set, ABORT it.

QG Destee: Specifically, our hair. We seem to collectively hate our own hair, killing it to look (limp) like theirs ... soon out of the womb.

We complain about Brothers w/white women ... but ironically ... we alter our hair's chemical make-up, to be like them.

Auset-The hair alone is not what drives black males to white females.

QG Destee: Do we plant the seed in our Sons' minds, letting them know, what is beautiful ... as they watch us strive to attain it?

Auset: Letting them Believe (ego based). For when we KNOW that we Know which is Truth Knowing, there is no waivers, doubts, ifs ands and buts. It is or it is not.

If we want our sons to want Black women, shouldn't we set the example by fully embracing all that we are?

Auset: Yes. If we NEED our sons to NEED Black women, shouldn't we set the example by fully embracing all that we are?

Qg Destee: How can we expect them to appreciate our unique-ness, if we don't?

Auset: Appreciate. A cousin to want. Grateful has more Power than appreciate.

How can we expect them to be GRATEFUL for our unique-ness, if we don't?

QG Destee: How can they know how to want us, if we don't want ourselves?

Auset: How can they know how to NEED us, if we don't NEED ourselves?

We as Black females should always be teaching our black males how to get along with us, but if we do not know this, we can not teach them.

We as females must (action) word return back to our once Divine goddesses minds, because we are forever teachers/teaching.

When we the Black female return back to our Natural selves, the goddesses we once were, and need to be, then our Black males will, those who are not permanently damaged will return back to us, for their redemption lies in the Black goddesses.

Let build our vocabulary with Divine words, that encourages, motivates, and equip ourselves for it will inspire others as well. Words are Divine Black Pyramid

Let the way we dress, walk and talk command respect.

We must learn the Power in the Word DIVINE, and become that Power.

Thank you for sharing and caring, and allowing me to care and share.

Together we can Work All things out that is wrong in our lives.

I WANT to stay on this computer right now, but I NEED to get off, because if I allow my WANTS to override my NEEDS, I will open myself to any and everything.

HILY/A

Auset-The hair alone is not what drives black males to white females.

Right Sister Goddess Auset ... it is not the only thing that drives them, but i believe it can be considered major ... since all one has to do is look across the landscape of this country, and most Black Women have straight hair (straightened first by their Mother, or with her blessing). They were not born that way, but so many have it, it almost looks like they were born with it! It's as though we've effectively fooled everyone, including ourselves!

Every where you look, you find Black Women that have chemically changed their very being, the way God made them, to be like ... what could be argued ... white women. It's all in the commercials, television, everywhere. They don't even have "natural black hair commercials" on television, as there is obviously no market for that.

We then in turn, do this to our daughters, chemically alter their hair. This has to speak volumes to a young and impressionable mind. Effectively instilling in her, that she is not beautiful the way that she is. Actually, because this comes from the parent, it is trusted and believed immediately, to be right and correct (by the child). So when someone approaches that adult child now, challenging what they do to their hair, they can expect a fight. How can someone challenge what my Mother taught me how to do?!

While (unknowingly) undermining our daughter's self-esteem, we simultaneously teach our Sons what is pretty and attractive.

We do this as a result of generations of racism put upon us. Our Ancestors, Our Mothers, Our Fathers did what they had to do, taught us how to get a job, and straight hair was the easiest route for us, to that. Actually, at one point in history, we could not get a job, unless we'd done something to our hair ... and ironically ... even still, they have rules against our natural hair on their jobs.

Unlike our Ancestors, we can see different things, living in a different time, and we must challenge ourselves to undo whatever part of this conditioning we can, and let it live not one more generation in our families!

No, it's not the only factor, but it is a factor that is totally within our control, preventable, and perpetuated on us, by us.

Black Women complain about Black Men w/white women, but what message do we give our Sons regarding what is beautiful?

Do we perm our hair, so it can be like white women's, then expect our Sons not to want a white woman?

:heart:

Destee

Right Sister Goddess Auset ... it is not the only thing that drives them, but i believe it can be considered major ... since all one has to do is look across the landscape of this country, and most Black Women have straight hair (straightened first by their Mother, or with her blessing). They were not born that way, but so many have it, it almost looks like they were born with it! It's as though we've effectively fooled everyone, including ourselves!

Every where you look, you find Black Women that have chemically changed their very being, the way God made them, to be like ... what could be argued ... white women. It's all in the commercials, television, everywhere. They don't even have "natural black hair commercials" on television, as there is obviously no market for that.

We then in turn, do this to our daughters, chemically alter their hair. This has to speak volumes to a young and impressionable mind. Effectively instilling in her, that she is not beautiful the way that she is. Actually, because this comes from the parent, it is trusted and believed immediately, to be right and correct (by the child). So when someone approaches that adult child now, challenging what they do to their hair, they got a fight on their hands. How can someone challenge what my Mother taught me how to do?!

While undermining our daughter's self-esteem ... we simultaneously teach Black Boys what is pretty and attractive.

We do this as a result of generations of racism put upon us. Our Ancestors, Our Mothers, Our Fathers did what they had to do, taught us how to get a job, and straight hair was the easiest route for us, to that. Actually, at one point in history, we could not get a job, unless we'd done something to our hair ... and ironically ... even still, they have rules against our natural hair on their jobs.

Unlike our Ancestors, we can see different things, living in a different time, and we must challenge ourselves to undo whatever part of this conditioning we can, and let it live not one more generation in our families!

No, it's not the only factor, but it is a factor that is totally within our control, preventable, and perpetuated on us, by us.

Black Women complain about Black Men w/white women, but what message do we give our Sons regarding what is beautiful?

Do we perm our hair, so it can be like white women's, then expect our Sons not to want a white woman?

:heart:

Destee

Please excuse me but....

Yesterday I was watching part of the Tyra Banks Show and there was a discussion on Race and stereotypes....all races of women.

The most contradictory aspect of the show was one of the panelists. A dark-skinned sister, who had "permed" hair and was talking about "keeping it real". She got on Black women who dye their hair a ligher shade-to-blonde (shoulda seen Tyra whose hair is naturally a lighter shade, but not blonde), and this sista especially got on an asian woman who was dyed blonde.

But I could not take much what she said seriously. "Keeping it real" and her hair was straighter than the white girls...!!:ohmy:

My daughter has worn her hair "natural" most of her life (her mom is "dreaded") but she recently got a "weave" for her college graduation, and because she has had problems finding employment with her "naptural" look (twisted and/or kinky fro). The good thing is the church she attends has a very "African-conscious" congregation (PAN-african orthodox)...

Thank GOD for sisters who are "Happily Naptural"!
(and brothers 2)

:peace:

Please excuse me but....

Yesterday I was watching part of the Tyra Banks Show and there was a discussion on Race and stereotypes....all races of women.

The most contradictory aspect of the show was one of the panelists. A dark-skinned sister, who had "permed" hair and was talking about "keeping it real". She got on Black women who dye their hair a ligher shade-to-blonde (shoulda seen Tyra whose hair is naturally a lighter shade, but not blonde), and this sista especially got on an asian woman who was dyed blonde.

But I could not take much what she said seriously. "Keeping it real" and her hair was straighter than the white girls...!!:ohmy:

My daughter has worn her hair "natural" most of her life (her mom is "dreaded") but she recently got a "weave" for her college graduation, and because she has had problems finding employment with her "naptural" look (twisted and/or kinky fro). The good thing is the church she attends has a very "African-conscious" congregation (PAN-african orthodox)...

Thank GOD for sisters who are "Happily Naptural"!
(and brothers 2)

:peace:

Brother O ... thanks for sharing, and yes, you're right ... we say we real, want real men ... but then be all fake.

Especially this hair thing. Oh my gosh. If i had never given up my perm, i would never know! But now that i do, whew, i'm gonna talk about it! I can't hardly help it! It's like the veil / evil has been lifted from my eyes, and now i can see.

I know i messed up my children, gave them something else to have to get over. It's just good that i saw it before i died, and could begin to undo what i've done. I got my daughter her first perm. I gave my son to know, by my actions, what is pretty. My daughter still wears her perm, of course i love her and she's beautiful, but i have already heard her say ... that my grandchildren (yet to come) will not be permed, that they will make the decision for themselves, when they are adults. I'm so proud of her! :D My son and i still fuss about the grandchildren he has yet to give me, but he loves my afro now, and hated it in the beginning ... so i count that as progress too!

Sisters, you all must admit, we can't possibly make such a big fuss, spend so much money, on making our hair straight every 4-8 weeks, without it having an impact on our children. We can't do anything that often, without it affecting our children.

Sisters ... do you think this could play even a small part in why our Sons want white women?

It's said, that imitation is the greatest form of flattery.

If we, Sisters, can only be an imitation of white women, doesn't it make sense for our Sons to want the real thing?

Do we lift white women up, and diminish Black women, in the eyes of our children, unconsciously?

:heart:

Destee

Brother O ... thanks for sharing, and yes, you're right ... we say we real, want real men ... but then be all fake.

Especially this hair thing. Oh my gosh. If i had never given up my perm, i would never know! But now that i do, whew, i'm gonna talk about it! I can't hardly help it! It's like the veil / evil has been lifted from my eyes, and now i can see.

I know i messed up my children, gave them something else to have to get over. It's just good that i saw it before i died, and could begin to undo what i've done. I got my daughter her first perm. I gave my son to know, by my actions, what is pretty. My daughter still wears her perm, of course i love her and she's beautiful, but i have already heard her say ... that my grandchildren (yet to come) will not be permed, that they will make the decision for themselves, when they are adults. I'm so proud of her! :D My son and i still fuss about the grandchildren he has yet to give me, but he loves my afro now, and hated it in the beginning ... so i count that as progress too!

Sisters, you all must admit, we can't possibly make such a big fuss, spend so much money, on making our hair straight every 4-8 weeks, without it having an impact on our children. We can't do anything that often, without it affecting our children.

Sisters ... do you think this could play even a small part in why our Sons want white women?

It's said, that imitation is the greatest form of flattery.

If we, Sisters, can only be an imitation of white women, doesn't it make sense for our Sons to want the real thing?
Do we lift white women up, and diminish Black women, in the eyes of our children, unconsciously?

:heart:

Destee

Honestly, Destee, I'm convinced that even if ALL Black women wore their hair nappy 24-7-365, many Black men would still want white women. I'm convinced that no matter what Black women do, Black men of this type will still desire white women. IMO, this is not about Black women at all. This desire is nothing more than a desire by many Black men to BE just like the white men they supposedly hate. Black men of this type want to have what the white man wants. They want to have the power and status of white men, so this is why they also desire the same type of woman. The type of woman that a man has is a testament to the type of man he is because men believe that a woman adds to their status, prestige, and identity. Therefore, if a Black man has a white woman, he must therefore be a white man.

If you listen to Black men talk about their white mate or their preference for white women, you can quickly tell that these men definitely believe they have moved "up" in the world.

I realize that Black men continiue to try to pin the blame on Black women for their preference for white flesh, but if we look at places in the world where Black women do wear their natural hair in their traditional hair styles, Black men still gravitate to white and mixed women AS SOON AS THEYGET THE OPPORTUNITY.

I mix with Black women from other parts of the world on a regular basis, and one of the things that most Black women (African, South American, Central America, Canada) have in common is that their Black men have a love for white and other women who are not Black. African women talk about how this started happening as soon as the first African men started coming to the USA and the UK to study in various colleges and universities back in the 50s. Those African men started dating and marrying white women then and African women were not perming their hair. For ex. Barack Obama is the offspring of such a relationship.

Many of the African leaders were mixed up with or married to white women, but most who went back to Africa were pressured to drop those women. Even during the "Black is Beautiful" period in this country, many of the Black men who were yelling that the loudest were "sleeping white" and this was at a time when all the Black women around them wore afros.

Considering the exodus of Black men to white women in every place where Black men have access to white women and other lighter women, there is something much deeper going on here than the straightness or nappiness of Black women's hair. Doesn't Kola Boof talk about the mission that Black men are on to breed their blackness out due to their feelings of utter humiliation for being defeated by white men? I don't know whether Kola is right, but I do know that it's a lot more than about hair texture.

Beloved Raida: writesConsidering the exodus of Black men to white women in every place where Black men have access to white women and other lighter women, there is something much deeper going on here than the straightness or nappiness of Black women's hair. Doesn't Kola Boof talk about the mission that Black men are on to breed their blackness out due to their feelings of utter humiliation for being defeated by white men? I don't know whether Kola is right, but I do know that it's a lot more than about hair texture.

-----------------------------
Truth is in her statement.

True Divine Loving has absolutely nothing to do with their WANT for white females. That is a Mania, Ludus and Pragma love that belongs to this world. Those black males who do turn to white females, do not know what they NEED. Turning away from the Black female is turning away from Beloved Afrika, and living in lies, deception..and the like of...SELF HATE.. These males would not know Truth if Truth came notarized.

It is like a drug addict going from one high to another. Some black males after being with a white female can not or do not desire to turn back. Some recovering drug addicts confess that they wish they never used drugs. Some recovering white female lovers (black males) have made that same confession and have returned back to the Black female.

So what they did is chose Rhinestonse (whites)oppressors daughter over the Diamond (True black females).

I am telling us, that that artificiality will fool only another fool, but those wise among sees them both.

When we do not know our roots and stay conncected to our roots, this is a form of mental illness.

HILy/A

Honestly, Destee, I'm convinced that even if ALL Black women wore their hair nappy 24-7-365, many Black men would still want white women. I'm convinced that no matter what Black women do, Black men of this type will still desire white women. IMO, this is not about Black women at all. This desire is nothing more than a desire by many Black men to BE just like the white men they supposedly hate. Black men of this type want to have what the white man wants. They want to have the power and status of white men, so this is why they also desire the same type of woman. The type of woman that a man has is a testament to the type of man he is because men believe that a woman adds to their status, prestige, and identity. Therefore, if a Black man has a white woman, he must therefore be a white man.

If you listen to Black men talk about their white mate or their preference for white women, you can quickly tell that these men definitely believe they have moved "up" in the world.

I realize that Black men continiue to try to pin the blame on Black women for their preference for white flesh, but if we look at places in the world where Black women do wear their natural hair in their traditional hair styles, Black men still gravitate to white and mixed women AS SOON AS THEYGET THE OPPORTUNITY.

I mix with Black women from other parts of the world on a regular basis, and one of the things that most Black women (African, South American, Central America, Canada) have in common is that their Black men have a love for white and other women who are not Black. African women talk about how this started happening as soon as the first African men started coming to the USA and the UK to study in various colleges and universities back in the 50s. Those African men started dating and marrying white women then and African women were not perming their hair. For ex. Barack Obama is the offspring of such a relationship.

Many of the African leaders were mixed up with or married to white women, but most who went back to Africa were pressured to drop those women. Even during the "Black is Beautiful" period in this country, many of the Black men who were yelling that the loudest were "sleeping white" and this was at a time when all the Black women around them wore afros.

Considering the exodus of Black men to white women in every place where Black men have access to white women and other lighter women, there is something much deeper going on here than the straightness or nappiness of Black women's hair. Doesn't Kola Boof talk about the mission that Black men are on to breed their blackness out due to their feelings of utter humiliation for being defeated by white men? I don't know whether Kola is right, but I do know that it's a lot more than about hair texture.

Hey Sister Riada ... :wave: ... good to be reading and responding to you !!! :wave:

Sister ... i'm not trying to lay blame at the feet of Black Women. I guess it kinda sounds like that, but that's not what i'm doing. I'm a Black Woman too. I am sick of hearing anyone talk about ... something else is the Black Woman's fault! There is only so much of this burden we can bear. I'm with you Sister, i'm not trying to do that.

Nor am i suggesting that our permed hair is THE reason for Black Men getting with white women.

All i'm suggesting is ... could it play a part in what we're seeing today?

And if so, as Black Women ... we might be able to make it better for future generations of our daughters, if we can undo this thing that has been done to us. This perming of our hair, chemically (and historically) altering ourselves, to be pretty and/or accepted. That's what it is rooted in. It can't be a good thing. It must have some negative impact to all of the generations its been imposed upon. I'm saying, can we look at this one tiny piece, that we have the ability within our control to change (if change might bring about a positive end) ... and begin talking about it.

Yes, there are probably a lot of reasons why Brothers get with white chicks, and no matter what we do collectively, some will still go there. But what of those young Brothers on the borderline, that we might be able to sway in our direction ... of loving his own in her fullness ... because we love ourselves in our fullness. What of that?

At this point in the game, we have to strive for every little victory we can. No, it might not solve the whole entire problem, but it can't help but aid us in our collective goal. What would become of the self-esteem of young Black women and girls, if they knew they'd be received JUST AS THEY ARE ... from cradle to grave! We as Mothers can do this for our babies. We can be the generation that says enough already! I can't imagine that this one change would not have an impact on the number of Brothers that went to white women. Their Mommas and Sisters loving themselves?! Please. So what if it takes a minute to manifest itself. So what if it doesn't move every Brother. The good far outweighs the bad, if we'd go this way.

Let me impress upon you Sister, the last thing i want is more blame put on us. It's hard to admit that we've done wrong (unintentionally), and the wrong was taught to us by our Mothers, and taught to them by their Mothers. That's deep. I can't imagine that anyone loves their Mother, more than i love mine, and i aint trying to blame her for nuth'n. The Mothers before us, and even Sisters today, do this because we didn't really know any better. I'm one of those Mothers! I believe our people, in large part, don't know any better, the long term, deep rooted, anesthetizing impact this has on us collectively. In addition, in days gone by, our hair literally could make or break us. You didn't get a job, if you hadn't put a piece of hot iron against your scalp. Mothers have done what they needed to do, and what was taught to them, to do. This is not about blame, this is about change.

I am just suggesting that maybe we should be teaching / showing our babies something different now.

Even if it doesn't keep every Brother out of the arms of white women, the benefits would be immeasurable.

Do you know, that's something most Black children in America have never seen?

Black Women with their natural hair, and their babies having their own natural hair ... in any kind of collective manner.

While white, latino, oriental, arab ... everyone else, for always ... looks like themselves ... their hair ... but not us.

Who are we fooling by not being ourselves?

This has to count ... some kinda way ... big.

Dontcha think?

:heart:

Destee

When we do not know our roots and stay conncected to our roots, this is a form of mental illness.

Yes Beloved ... this is my point exactly ... Sisters must stop running from their roots ... no pun intended.

:heart:

Destee

Hey Sister Riada ... :wave: ... good to be reading and responding to you !!! :wave:

Sister ... i'm not trying to lay blame at the feet of Black Women. I guess it kinda sounds like that, but that's not what i'm doing. I'm a Black Woman too. I am sick of hearing anyone talk about ... something else is the Black Woman's fault! There is only so much of this burden we can bear. I'm with you Sister, i'm not trying to do that.

Nor am i suggesting that our permed hair is THE reason for Black Men getting with white women.

All i'm suggesting is ... could it play a part in what we're seeing today?

And if so, as Black Women ... we might be able to make it better for future generations of our daughters, if we can undo this thing that has been done to us. This perming of our hair, chemically (and historically) altering ourselves, to be pretty and/or accepted. That's what it is rooted in. It can't be a good thing. It must have some negative impact to all of the generations its been imposed upon. I'm saying, can we look at this one tiny piece, that we have the ability within our control to change (if change might bring about a positive end) ... and begin talking about it.

Yes, there are probably a lot of reasons why Brothers get with white chicks, and no matter what we do collectively, some will still go there. But what of those young Brothers on the borderline, that we might be able to sway in our direction ... of loving his own in her fullness ... because we love ourselves in our fullness. What of that?

At this point in the game, we have to strive for every little victory we can. No, it might not solve the whole entire problem, but it can't help but aid us in our collective goal. What would become of the self-esteem of young Black women and girls, if they knew they'd be received JUST AS THEY ARE ... from cradle to grave! We as Mothers can do this for our babies. We can be the generation that says enough already! I can't imagine that this one change would not have an impact on the number of Brothers that went to white women. Their Mommas and Sisters loving themselves?! Please. So what if it takes a minute to manifest itself. So what if it doesn't move every Brother. The good far outweighs the bad, if we'd go this way.

Let me impress upon you Sister, the last thing i want is more blame put on us. It's hard to admit that we've done wrong (unintentionally), and the wrong was taught to us by our Mothers, and taught to them by their Mothers. That's deep. I can't imagine that anyone loves their Mother, more than i love mine, and i aint trying to blame her for nuth'n. The Mothers before us, and even Sisters today, do this because we didn't really know any better. I'm one of those Mothers! I believe our people, in large part, don't know any better, the long term, deep rooted, anesthetizing impact this has on us collectively. In addition, in days gone by, our hair literally could make or break us. You didn't get a job, if you hadn't put a piece of hot iron against your scalp. Mothers have done what they needed to do, and what was taught to them, to do. This is not about blame, this is about change.

I am just suggesting that maybe we should be teaching / showing our babies something different now.

Even if it doesn't keep every Brother out of the arms of white women, the benefits would be immeasurable.

Do you know, that's something most Black children in America have never seen?

Black Women with their natural hair, and their babies having their own natural hair ... in any kind of collective manner.

While white, latino, oriental, arab ... everyone else, for always ... looks like themselves ... their hair ... but not us.

Who are we fooling by not being ourselves?

This has to count ... some kinda way ... big.

Dontcha think?

:heart:

Destee

Destee, I definitely think that it's always better to accept anyone as they are naturally--not try to change them, and if they can't be accepted as they are, just leave them alone if they not hurting anyone. So, I'm certainly with you there about it just being wonderful to be embraced just as we are and just as we were made. Of course, it would do lots of good.

My point is that I wouldn't want to set Black women up for disappointment. I'll bet you that some Black women have actually gone natural just based on the number of Black men who say here on your forum that they want a natural-haired Black woman. Why do I say disappointment? There are many Black women these days who would do just about anything to get a Black man to love them, be with them, and nobody else but them. There are Black women out there right now having sex with Black men who refuse to wear condoms, but in each case, she's thinking that maybe, just maybe he'll be "her man" after he's finished. So going natural would be an easy decision for them to do if there's a reasonable chance that their expectation will be met to get a man of their own. That's why I answered the way I did.

In general, what you've said would be wonderful. Just look at all the money, time, and energy alone that would be saved. I agree that there is too much emotional energy invested in hair and other surface things by Black men and Black women. Too much emphasis is put on the "outside" of themselves versus the "inside."

We are losing at this because we don't have a culture that functions to meet our needs, so we're just using band-aids to make us feel better from moment to moment and day to day. Until we actually build a culture to meet our various needs, it'll just be more of the same.

Beloved Qg Destee writes: I am just suggesting that maybe we should be teaching / showing our babies something different now.

Precious I agree, only not maybe, but should.

I was listening to Chris Rock the other night and he said not only brothers lie but sisters lie too. I became more alert because I needed to hear which direction he was going on this. Comedians tells the Truth too.

Chris said: We wear high heels, and know we are not that tall. We lie.
We wear weaves, and know our hair is not that long. We lie.
We wear all that make up, and that is not our real face. We lie.

Of course that is not all we do that demonstrates our artificialities.
I add: Some of us wear these false nails, and we know that those fake nails aren't our nails, clogging up Divine Energy from entering into us, and same for fake toe nails. There is even a REDlipstick out now that has lead in it. Some of us do not even wear clothing that demand/Command respect.

I was watching A RASIN IN THE SUN, with Sidney Poiter. In that movie his character said that we Black females are the most backwards females.

Now we know all of us are not, but a vast majority is. How do I know we are backwards? Conformity to the european standards, behavior, conducts, etc.

The fact that we are not in our once Divine mind-set is proof we are backwards, and that goes for any people who have no knowledge of their roots and do not desire to know anything about their roots.

We have, and so did some of our ancestors, the Second way Ancestors that is, wasted far too much time being the Greatest Pretenders (europeans) way of life.

When we live in a Profane environment we are going to always be subjected to the Profaneness in it that environment.

Oh how I desire that our people would get a glimpse of who we were when we were in our Divine Mind-set. The mind-set when we did not have to be concerned about the profane that is encamped around us now. In our once Divine Mind-set, there was harmony, balance, and order. There was no identity problem. Why? Because we were BEING THE CHANGE AFRIKANS/WORLD NEEDS TO SEE.

That is why it is vital and essential that we strive towards back into our Divine mind no matter where we are dispersed. When we are all in our Divine mind-set we are ONENESS with the Divine Universal and Nature Laws.

We must (Action) word put on the whole Armor of Divineness, inside and outside, if we are to succeed as a Divine black people and be the catalyst of Truth and reality to self, and our children, who seeks TRUTH from us. If we are not STATUES OF LIBERATION for our selves/children/people, we are STATUES OF Liberation for all that is evil.

We need to teach our sons/daughters what All they are made of in the Universe, so they can know thyself As Divine Soul. That is where we begin. We are made up of the Universal Laws and The Spirit of Nature leads and guides us. Without such teachings our children will continue to be easy baits for all evil that is lurking everywhere to pounce on them like a cat perched waiting to get a mouse. That is entrapment. We in our generation fell into that same entrapment because we were not taught our Divine way.

It is pass time to FREE WILL in us so that we and our children can LIVe a Divine life (mind-set).

Tell the Truth. Be It.

HILY/A:kiss1:

*chiming in*

From experience, and observation, I notice BM pay attention to the length of hair more so than texture.

Beloved Qg SB:

Thanks for addressing that too.

HILY/A

*chiming in*

From experience, and observation, I notice BM pay attention to the length of hair more so than texture.

Okay, and I agree with you. When a bw perms her hair, it's usually a lot longer than it is when it's in its natural state--sometimes 2-3 or 4 times as long. My natural hair is about 8 inches long, so if I were to perm it, it would be really long enough to get the attention of a lot of Black men. I know from experience that longer hair gets plenty attention and compliments from Black men. As my hair is now, nappy, I don't get attention from Black men, but I don't care since I'm married.

I think that what Destee is saying is that if we don't ever perm our hair and let it stay as short as it might naturally be unpermed, eventually Black men will get used to natural and unpermed hair and learn to love it. Maybe they won't though. It sure would be nice to be around a lot of men right now who would just love our hair in its natural state. Every Black woman I know would just love that. That's utopia I guess.:lol:

i have to say something in here...excuse me for my brashness sistas...

as a young black male, i for one am probably in the minority who cant stand to see sistas who go to get they hair permed and what not... i mean i ask my moms why she does it whenever she goes to the beauty salon and i get the same answers... but i loves my sistas when they hair is in its natural state

but i loves sistas regardless, i just want to wonder what makes yall do that?

i dont get it either and it saddens me to see sistas who see the false images of beauty presented on tv, and want to follow that but i digress


also, for the record my hair is natural (i have a ceasar)

Beloved Mighty warrrior Rahim:

I bow and salute your loving for sisters/Afrika.

Removing that Deep, Deep, Deep, european conditioning LYE out of our mind-set, sometimes is like pulling a tooth without novacain. It hurts us to give up that Stolen Identity, perms and all the european artificialities.

May the Flood of Truth and Reality KNOWERS Ark those who lacks Knowlwdge, Overstanding, and Wisdom.


HILY/A

Okay, and I agree with you. When a bw perms her hair, it's usually a lot longer than it is when it's in its natural state--sometimes 2-3 or 4 times as long. My natural hair is about 8 inches long, so if I were to perm it, it would be really long enough to get the attention of a lot of Black men. I know from experience that longer hair gets plenty attention and compliments from Black men. As my hair is now, nappy, I don't get attention from Black men, but I don't care since I'm married.
Imagine the dating scene while transitioning from relaxed to natural (me). My s/o loves my mullet (top natural and shorter, the back kept longer for length, until ALL of it grows long enough):weird:


I think that what Destee is saying is that if we don't ever perm our hair and let it stay as short as it might naturally be unpermed, eventually Black men will get used to natural and unpermed hair and learn to love it. Maybe they won't though. It sure would be nice to be around a lot of men right now who would just love our hair in its natural state. Every Black woman I know would just love that. That's utopia I guess.:lol:
If BM don't accept us naturally, at least we're being true to ourselves. I understood what Destee was saying. Too bad enough mothers won't let their little girl's hair "be". I swear, no more processing for me. Now, every now and then I'll wear a piece, but change what I was naturally blessed with... I'll pass.

:kiss1: :kiss1: :kiss1: :kiss1: :kiss1: :kiss1: :kiss1: :kiss1: :kiss1:
"Beauty"

"I find, in being Black, a thing of "Beauty"; like a joy; a strength;a secret cup of gladness - a native land in neither time nor place - a native land in every Black face! Be loyal to yourselves;your skin; your hair; your lips; your speech; your laughing kinds - are Black kingdoms, vast as any other."Ossie Davis-:kiss1: :kiss1: :kiss1: :kiss1: :kiss1: :kiss1: :kiss1: :kiss1: :kiss1:

Destee, I definitely think that it's always better to accept anyone as they are naturally--not try to change them, and if they can't be accepted as they are, just leave them alone if they not hurting anyone. So, I'm certainly with you there about it just being wonderful to be embraced just as we are and just as we were made. Of course, it would do lots of good.

My point is that I wouldn't want to set Black women up for disappointment. I'll bet you that some Black women have actually gone natural just based on the number of Black men who say here on your forum that they want a natural-haired Black woman. Why do I say disappointment? There are many Black women these days who would do just about anything to get a Black man to love them, be with them, and nobody else but them. There are Black women out there right now having sex with Black men who refuse to wear condoms, but in each case, she's thinking that maybe, just maybe he'll be "her man" after he's finished. So going natural would be an easy decision for them to do if there's a reasonable chance that their expectation will be met to get a man of their own. That's why I answered the way I did.

In general, what you've said would be wonderful. Just look at all the money, time, and energy alone that would be saved. I agree that there is too much emotional energy invested in hair and other surface things by Black men and Black women. Too much emphasis is put on the "outside" of themselves versus the "inside."

We are losing at this because we don't have a culture that functions to meet our needs, so we're just using band-aids to make us feel better from moment to moment and day to day. Until we actually build a culture to meet our various needs, it'll just be more of the same.

Sister Riada ... i titled this thread, Teaching Our Sons What to Want, but that is only one possible, additional benefit, if Sisters would love themselves. It would not be the greatest benefit that could come from such a collective act by us. It's just that when i was thinking of this topic, i was kinda think'n about how much it hurts Sisters, when Brothers (Sons) get with white women, and that maybe we could do something about that.

I didn't intend to suggest that if Sisters were to go natural, they'd immediately find a Brother to love them. As a matter of fact, most of my hopeful projection has been placed on future generations, not necessarily this one. It will take some time for the change to manifest itself collectively, before we could actually count up the bounty. I don't think we'll live to really see that, but we'll be the ones that put the effort in motion. We'll start it, but it will be our Daughters and her Daughters, that benefit directly from this change.

So no ... i'm not trying to set Sisters up for any kind of disappointment.

In addition, our motivation for doing this, must be sincere. It must be right, in order to realize the fullness of it. It can't be because Destee said do it, or because you might get a Brother, or people might think you more conscious, or any such thing as that. It has to be done because you want to know and love yourself, the way God made you. Sisters in this country have been collectively denied the opportunity to know and love themselves. If at every peek of a coiled root, we run to the salon to get it chemically altered, we can't know ourselves. We don't give ourselves a chance to live, before we kill it. This is about Sisters loving themselves, totally and completely, and not really about getting a Brother.

It's about teaching our Sons what is beautiful. We can't date our Sons, so it's not really about dating.

It's so much deeper than that.

Sister Riada ... how is culture built? By one, then another, then another, then another, doing the same?

Then let's build culture Sister! We can do this! :grouphug:

:heart:

Destee

Beloved Qg Destee writes: I am just suggesting that maybe we should be teaching / showing our babies something different now.

Precious I agree, only not maybe, but should.

I was listening to Chris Rock the other night and he said not only brothers lie but sisters lie too. I became more alert because I needed to hear which direction he was going on this. Comedians tells the Truth too.

Chris said: We wear high heels, and know we are not that tall. We lie.
We wear weaves, and know our hair is not that long. We lie.
We wear all that make up, and that is not our real face. We lie.

Of course that is not all we do that demonstrates our artificialities.
I add: Some of us wear these false nails, and we know that those fake nails aren't our nails, clogging up Divine Energy from entering into us, and same for fake toe nails. There is even a REDlipstick out now that has lead in it. Some of us do not even wear clothing that demand/Command respect.

Oh Sister Goddess Auset ... you putt'n all the fake stuff on the table! :lol:

It's really krazee. It's as though fake is the goal ... instead of real.

Just krazee.

:heart:

Destee

*chiming in*

From experience, and observation, I notice BM pay attention to the length of hair more so than texture.

Sister Spicy ... this may be true ... but this isn't really about what Brothers want.

It's about what Sisters are doing. We are wearing hair down to our booty, like we were born that way.

I'm suggesting that they will want what we (Mothers / Sisters) give and show them.

It's something that hasn't been done, in any collective manner, so i don't have evidence to support it ... unless you wanna count the evidence that they want long hair (since we, Mothers and Sisters, wear that). It's almost like the chicken / egg thingy ... you know ... which came first, the chicken or the egg? Which really drives which?

But it seems logical to me. Mothers / Sisters have great influence in the lives of their Sons / Brothers.

We should not under-estimate the power we have.

:heart:

Destee

Okay, and I agree with you. When a bw perms her hair, it's usually a lot longer than it is when it's in its natural state--sometimes 2-3 or 4 times as long. My natural hair is about 8 inches long, so if I were to perm it, it would be really long enough to get the attention of a lot of Black men. I know from experience that longer hair gets plenty attention and compliments from Black men. As my hair is now, nappy, I don't get attention from Black men, but I don't care since I'm married.

I think that what Destee is saying is that if we don't ever perm our hair and let it stay as short as it might naturally be unpermed, eventually Black men will get used to natural and unpermed hair and learn to love it. Maybe they won't though. It sure would be nice to be around a lot of men right now who would just love our hair in its natural state. Every Black woman I know would just love that. That's utopia I guess.:lol:

Sister Riada ... yes, long hair seems to be considered more attractive, but that's just someone's projection / opinion of beauty, that we have internalized. Much to our devastation i might add, since most of us have short(er) hair. We need to change the entire mentality surrounding this, as it relates to our Daughters. What if short hair, is really the most attractive?! Why can't it be?! Who gets to determine this for us?!! Of course if someone is going to say what is pretty, and they have the resources to broadcast that message around the world, 24/7, they are going to say their stuff is the prettiest!! Please. We just bought it, hook, line and sinker. Not only did we buy it, but it was forced upon us. We have it worse than others in the world, due to our history with these people. How can their stuff be the prettiest?! That's krazee. I don't care how long the hair is, if it is our own hair, it's pretty dadgummit!

We've got to quit buying into it. It's not gonna be easy, but if we don't do it, we leave it for the generations behind us to do. If it's hard now, how much more difficult will it be for them? We have to help our people overcome this self hate that's been instilled in us. We have to reject their definition of beauty. It does not include us. Period. Yet we strive to become beautiful, by doing things to ourselves, to look like them.

They have conditioned us so completely, that we perpetuate the racism upon ourselves, voluntarily.

Even if no Brother ever says he likes my fro ... this is not about him.

This is about my people collectively, seeing Sisters ... even if it's just one ... that loves herself enough, to embrace herself, walk proudly around the way God made her ... in all her glory and splendor!

The utopia must begin, within.

:heart:

Destee

i have to say something in here...excuse me for my brashness sistas...

as a young black male, i for one am probably in the minority who cant stand to see sistas who go to get they hair permed and what not... i mean i ask my moms why she does it whenever she goes to the beauty salon and i get the same answers... but i loves my sistas when they hair is in its natural state

but i loves sistas regardless, i just want to wonder what makes yall do that?

i dont get it either and it saddens me to see sistas who see the false images of beauty presented on tv, and want to follow that but i digress


also, for the record my hair is natural (i have a ceasar)

Brother Rahim ... thanks for sharing your thoughts. It's not an easy path to embark upon, as there is so much weight on a Sister, regarding her hair / beauty. It's good to know that there are some Brothers with us on this. It's like having a cool drink of water, while walking through the desert, giving energy to go a few more steps.

Thank You! :grouphug:

:heart:

Destee

Imagine the dating scene while transitioning from relaxed to natural (me). My s/o loves my mullet (top natural and shorter, the back kept longer for length, until ALL of it grows long enough):weird:



If BM don't accept us naturally, at least we're being true to ourselves. I understood what Destee was saying. Too bad enough mothers won't let their little girl's hair "be". I swear, no more processing for me. Now, every now and then I'll wear a piece, but change what I was naturally blessed with... I'll pass.

Sister Spicy ... huh ... ?? ... natural on top, but what, permed on the sides and back?! Gurl, you dun confused me! But no matter, i'm still laughing at the pressing comb memories (http://destee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45649) you shared ... :lol:

It is sad that our Mothers have instilled this in us, but it will be even sadder, if those of us who know better, don't do better.

Love You!

:heart:

Destee

Beloved Qg Destee writes: Oh Sister Goddess Auset ... you putt'n all the fake stuff on the table! It's really krazee. It's as though fake is the goal ... instead of real.
-------------------------------------------------

Precoius Qg Destee, if the saying is true a year is liken unto 1,000 years, we do not have much time to get back in our Divine right mind-set.

Yes beloved sisters, it is time to do a Strip Search of oursleves and Re-dress our minds.

That is why we must (action) word keep It Natural/Real.:blowkiss:

HILY/A:blowkiss: :blowkiss: :blowkiss:

Sister Riada ... yes, long hair seems to be considered more attractive, but that's just someone's projection / opinion of beauty, that we have internalized. Much to our devastation i might add, since most of us have short(er) hair. We need to change the entire mentality surrounding this, as it relates to our Daughters. What if short hair, is really the most attractive?! Why can't it be?! Who gets to determine this for us?!! Of course if someone is going to say what is pretty, and they have the resources to broadcast that message around the world, 24/7, they are going to say their stuff is the prettiest!! Please. We just bought it, hook, line and sinker. Not only did we buy it, but it was forced upon us. We have it worse than others in the world, due to our history with these people. How can their stuff be the prettiest?! That's krazee. I don't care how long the hair is, if it is our own hair, it's pretty dadgummit!

We've got to quit buying into it. It's not gonna be easy, but if we don't do it, we leave it for the generations behind us to do. If it's hard now, how much more difficult will it be for them? We have to help our people overcome this self hate that's been instilled in us. We have to reject their definition of beauty. It does not include us. Period. Yet we strive to become beautiful, by doing things to ourselves, to look like them.

They have conditioned us so completely, that we perpetuate the racism upon ourselves, voluntarily.

Even if no Brother ever says he likes my fro ... this is not about him.

This is about my people collectively, seeing Sisters ... even if it's just one ... that loves herself enough, to embrace herself, walk proudly around the way God made her ... in all her glory and splendor!

The utopia must begin, within.

:heart:

Destee

Destee, now you know I know exactly what you're saying. I definitely know how all of this occurred, however I do think that women, the world over, want to attract men, unless they're lesbians.

From what I can see, women everywhere do things to attract men. Isn't this natural? Why do Black women gotta be so different? We're already penalized and overlooked by many Black men for being different from other women as so many Black men on other boards and this board are constantly telling Black women when they've told Black women that we ought to be more like white women and other women. I think, no I know, that lots of Black women are trying to do some of the things that Black men say they want because so many Black men are always saying what's wrong with us. Should we just ignore what Black men say they like or want? Somehow, I think it just puts so much stress on Black women and keeps some of them doubting themselves.

Now, you may have figured out that I'm the kind of Black woman who doesn't give a eff about what small-minded Black men like or want. I don't live in a small world, but a lot of Black women live in a very narrow, confined world and I know they're trying to appeal to the men in that world.

Beloved Qg Raida writes: Now, you may have figured out that I'm the kind of Black woman who doesn't give a eff about what small-minded Black men like or want. I don't live in a small world, but a lot of Black women live in a very narrow, confined world and I know they're trying to appeal to the men in that world.

Precious Raida, I agree.

Precious QG Destee:

I had to come back to this thread and add a few more lies we tell ourselves.

ADD: Colored contact lenses. We know that is not our true eye color. We lie.

Breast Implant for the purpose of getting/drawing attention/making money. These aren't our real breassies. We lie.

Somebody broke our heart. The heart is just and organ, vital and essential organ in our body. We allowed someone to crack our mind like a safe cracker, because every emotions comes from the Mind Thiought. We lie on the heart. We lie.

We fell in love: To become less or lower; become of a lower level, degree, amount, quality, value, number, etc.; decline: We are always to be in an ascending state not decending. When we look at the definition of the word fell we see that there is some stumbling going on, like one foot slipped and then down we came a tumbling. So when we say we fell in love, what we are saying is we are missing a Mind thought link, that allowed something/ someone else to cause us to be spell bound, like subliminal seduction. In Divine loving there is Harmony, balance, and order, no stumbling/tumbling/grumbling/mumbling. Like truth. Divine Loving JUST IS. When we have both feet rooted and grounded in Truth and reality, we are Walking in loving. We lie.

He/she stole my heart. Sounds like a thief to me, and it sounds like there is no more life and we should not be living. We lie.

As a child I use to love reading Readers Digest. I would go straight to the page where a new word was to be leaned. Learning a new word every day is Divine Kingdom Mind building.

Like, want...and the likes of are other powerless words to be discusssed at a later time.

It is time for us to become lovers of words, know the definitions of the words we say, because when we say those words, both powerless and powerful, after a while those words manifest within our essence energy and we will experience negative or positive vibrations. We are what we eat and what we think.

When we operate in Truth and Reality It becomes the Cold Turkey for lies and deception. We Lie if we do not.

If we are not teaching our Children Truth and reality. We lie.

HILY/A:ilu:

Divine Spirituality is My
Identity
Crown
Title
Gift
Birth Right

Divine Truth and reality is
My best friend and lovers

How Natural/Real is all the above?
Outside of that I have nothing to offer, man, woman/child/World.

Hey Sister Riada ... :wave: ... good to be reading and responding to you !!! :wave:

Sister ... i'm not trying to lay blame at the feet of Black Women. I guess it kinda sounds like that, but that's not what i'm doing. I'm a Black Woman too. I am sick of hearing anyone talk about ... something else is the Black Woman's fault! There is only so much of this burden we can bear. I'm with you Sister, i'm not trying to do that.

Nor am i suggesting that our permed hair is THE reason for Black Men getting with white women.

All i'm suggesting is ... could it play a part in what we're seeing today?

And if so, as Black Women ... we might be able to make it better for future generations of our daughters, if we can undo this thing that has been done to us. This perming of our hair, chemically (and historically) altering ourselves, to be pretty and/or accepted. That's what it is rooted in. It can't be a good thing. It must have some negative impact to all of the generations its been imposed upon. I'm saying, can we look at this one tiny piece, that we have the ability within our control to change (if change might bring about a positive end) ... and begin talking about it.

Yes, there are probably a lot of reasons why Brothers get with white chicks, and no matter what we do collectively, some will still go there. But what of those young Brothers on the borderline, that we might be able to sway in our direction ... of loving his own in her fullness ... because we love ourselves in our fullness. What of that?

At this point in the game, we have to strive for every little victory we can. No, it might not solve the whole entire problem, but it can't help but aid us in our collective goal. What would become of the self-esteem of young Black women and girls, if they knew they'd be received JUST AS THEY ARE ... from cradle to grave! We as Mothers can do this for our babies. We can be the generation that says enough already! I can't imagine that this one change would not have an impact on the number of Brothers that went to white women. Their Mommas and Sisters loving themselves?! Please. So what if it takes a minute to manifest itself. So what if it doesn't move every Brother. The good far outweighs the bad, if we'd go this way.

Let me impress upon you Sister, the last thing i want is more blame put on us. It's hard to admit that we've done wrong (unintentionally), and the wrong was taught to us by our Mothers, and taught to them by their Mothers. That's deep. I can't imagine that anyone loves their Mother, more than i love mine, and i aint trying to blame her for nuth'n. The Mothers before us, and even Sisters today, do this because we didn't really know any better. I'm one of those Mothers! I believe our people, in large part, don't know any better, the long term, deep rooted, anesthetizing impact this has on us collectively. In addition, in days gone by, our hair literally could make or break us. You didn't get a job, if you hadn't put a piece of hot iron against your scalp. Mothers have done what they needed to do, and what was taught to them, to do. This is not about blame, this is about change.

I am just suggesting that maybe we should be teaching / showing our babies something different now.

Even if it doesn't keep every Brother out of the arms of white women, the benefits would be immeasurable.

Do you know, that's something most Black children in America have never seen?

Black Women with their natural hair, and their babies having their own natural hair ... in any kind of collective manner.

While white, latino, oriental, arab ... everyone else, for always ... looks like themselves ... their hair ... but not us.

Who are we fooling by not being ourselves?

This has to count ... some kinda way ... big.

Dontcha think?

:heart:

Destee

:ref: :welldone:
:ilu: :bowdown:

:kiss1:

Sister Spicy ... huh ... ?? ... natural on top, but what, permed on the sides and back?! Gurl, you dun confused me! But no matter, i'm still laughing at the pressing comb memories (http://destee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45649) you shared ... :lol:

It is sad that our Mothers have instilled this in us, but it will be even sadder, if those of us who know better, don't do better.

Love You!

:heart:

Destee
LOL@ scorched ear memories. I meant it was relaxed all over, but I cut the top down to the natural growth, but left the back relaxed and long in case I want to pull it back into a pony tail or whatever. T'is a shame our mammies won't leave our heads to grow naturally, and instill in us a sense of pride. I'm never going that route with my daughter, however.

Peace

Sister Spicy ... this may be true ... but this isn't really about what Brothers want.

It's about what Sisters are doing. We are wearing hair down to our booty, like we were born that way.

I'm suggesting that they will want what we (Mothers / Sisters) give and show them.

It's something that hasn't been done, in any collective manner, so i don't have evidence to support it ... unless you wanna count the evidence that they want long hair (since we, Mothers and Sisters, wear that). It's almost like the chicken / egg thingy ... you know ... which came first, the chicken or the egg? Which really drives which?

But it seems logical to me. Mothers / Sisters have great influence in the lives of their Sons / Brothers.

We should not under-estimate the power we have.

:heart:

Destee
... I agree.

Destee, now you know I know exactly what you're saying. I definitely know how all of this occurred, however I do think that women, the world over, want to attract men, unless they're lesbians.

From what I can see, women everywhere do things to attract men. Isn't this natural? Why do Black women gotta be so different? We're already penalized and overlooked by many Black men for being different from other women as so many Black men on other boards and this board are constantly telling Black women when they've told Black women that we ought to be more like white women and other women. I think, no I know, that lots of Black women are trying to do some of the things that Black men say they want because so many Black men are always saying what's wrong with us. Should we just ignore what Black men say they like or want? Somehow, I think it just puts so much stress on Black women and keeps some of them doubting themselves.

Now, you may have figured out that I'm the kind of Black woman who doesn't give a eff about what small-minded Black men like or want. I don't live in a small world, but a lot of Black women live in a very narrow, confined world and I know they're trying to appeal to the men in that world.

Sister Riada ... no, you're not understanding what i'm saying, for if you did, you would not go on and on about Black Women getting Black Men for a date. I'm afraid that this is partially my fault, as i said in this post (http://destee.com/forums/showpost.php?p=475454&postcount=19), because i titled this thread accordingly, presenting it as though dating was the primary reason ... but even in doing that, i said our Sons, not our peers ... suggesting that it would not be us, but our daughters, and their daughters, reaping the reward of this effort. No matter, i take responsibility for how you're seeing this ... but hear me for a second please.

Getting Black Men to love Black Women exclusively, would be a by-product of Sisters loving themselves. It would not be the goal, but an additional benefit, like the icing on the cake kinda thing. This subject is one that is dear to most every single Sister on the planet, Brothers with white chicks. That's why i mentioned it, because i knew it would draw us in, but it can't be what keeps us on this road. We must travel this road because we want to love ourselves. We deserve to love ourselves. If we don't love ourselves, how can we show someone else how to love us? Without this part, no other real part can add itself to the equation (properly). We need this first, loving ourselves.

Yes, women want to attract men, it is natural. Yes Yes Yes. I am suggesting that other women do this, using (for the most part) their natural selves. But we, Black women, feel that we must alter our natural selves (our hair) in order to attract men. Do you see the great disadvantage we put ourselves and our Daughters at, by doing this? We don't even allow ourselves to start out with a level playing field. We undermine ourselves. We reject our own natural selves, right out of the womb. This has to be wrong. How can we "naturally" attract men, if we don't love our natural selves? This may play a part in why we have so much trouble in this area, because we are trying to do it "unnaturally."

Let us do it naturally. It may prove very lucrative for us, in many ways.

It's something that hasn't been tried, yet seems the most logical course of action (to me).

Sister Riada ... c'mon with the "small-minded Black men" comments. That's not necessary. Aint no Brothers in this thread say'n nuth'n small-minded. We've really got to get away from trying to lay the blame at another's feet. There is enough fault to go around, enough improvement to be made on every side, that none be left blameless or with no work to do.

Sisters must realize, that all Black Men come from us, including the "small-minded" ones. No matter how far removed we'd like to be, do a minimal search of his life, and you will find at the head of it, parents. And in many cases, even when there are two, the Mother is the most influential. So, to talk about a Black Man, in any kinda way, you're almost talking about a Black Woman too.

It's just time out for that. We've done enough of that. It's time to make changes now, if we can.

Sister Riada ... i aint fuss'n, even if i sound like it ... :love:

I'm just really wanting you to understand what i'm saying, because that is the key. If i can't get anyone to understand what i'm saying, then there's no chance of any seeds taking root ... and that's what i'm trying to do ... plant seeds. Put the thoughts out here, into the minds of the young Black Mothers, Sisters, Aunts, etc. It takes time for a seed to develop, but it must be planted in fertile ground. I want fertile ground, so i'm toiling with it, turning it, explaining over and over again, if necessary. Feel me? :wink: :)

You are a very influential Sister. I can tell just by the relatively small interaction we've had. If i can get you to see, then you might get another to see ... see? Gurl, we'll have a brand new culture blooming right before us. We'll be the ones that got the ball rolling. Like our Ancestors before us, did all that they did, so we could be here ... never experiencing any of this themselves. Likewise, those coming behind us, will say, look what they did for us! No, we might not get to see the end result, but we can take pride in knowing, we made things better for those coming behind us.

Much Love and Peace.

:heart:

Destee

:ref: :welldone:
:ilu: :bowdown:

:kiss1:

Hey Brother Sekhemu ... :wave: ... good to have you back in the house, and thanks for the love! :grouphug:

:heart:

Destee

LOL@ scorched ear memories. I meant it was relaxed all over, but I cut the top down to the natural growth, but left the back relaxed and long in case I want to pull it back into a pony tail or whatever. T'is a shame our mammies won't leave our heads to grow naturally, and instill in us a sense of pride. I'm never going that route with my daughter, however.

Peace

Sister Spicy ... now you know i love you ... but jes ezaklee who's Momma you call'n a Mammy!??

Gurl ... you know them is some fight'n words! ... but since i love you, i won't shoot you ... :lol:

But no Sister, we must be very careful how we view our Mothers, and those before us, regarding this and other like situations. See, we're in a very precarious position, as it's easy for us to go left or right, but we must remain balanced. We've been so manipulated by these people, every aspect of our being, including life and death. Considering the hell they had our Ancestors under, there's no telling what one might do or not do. Mothers before us, including our own, most often did what they had to. They did it so successfully, that we are now here, able to carry the torch a little further. Without their doing, we may not have survived. Now is not the time for Monday morning arm chair quarterbacking. We must believe they did what they thought was best. However bad it was, we're here, alive and well, able to see things they didn't see, experience stuff they never could, change things they may not have even been aware of. It is because of them we are here ... and because of us, the choices we make now ... our children can be further along than we are, able to see more, and do better.

I know you meant no real harm Sister ... but i'm on a mission ... and i appreciate you joining me! :wink:

Much Love and Peace.

:heart:

Destee

Destee, I'm not sure whether you're using hair as a substitute for something else or what? Are you talking about the hair on our head, literally?

If you're talking about hair literally, then as I look at Black women around the globe, I'm not seeing where hair texture, length, style, natural, traditionally styled, braided, plaited, permed, or in the case of some African women who shave their heads is making any significance difference in the quality of the lives of the women or their children, or of their ethnic group's success or failure. I don't see a significant indication that wearing natural hair means that the woman loves her natural black self or that she is teaching her daughters to love their natural selves. Many times, it's just a matter of tradition, convenience, or style. For ex., some women feel it's cool to wear their natural hair in locs, but will dye their locs blond or red. Some Black women are locking their daughters and sons hair because it's a style and not because of any other reason.

I think a mistake was made during the days of the big afros in thinking that just because Black people were wearing natural hair and saying that Black was beautiful, that people really believed it. Obviously a lot of them didn't. We know now that a lot of them were just doing the "hip" thing.

Some people still call us Afro-Americans from those days :lol: because our whole identity was in our hair and apparently not in our brains. If people really feel proud about themselves, it will be reflected in a bunch of other much more important ways.

So, I'm not seeing the where hair is that significant. Maybe, I'm totally missing your point and in that case, I'll just bow out.

Destee, I'm not sure whether you're using hair as a substitute for something else or what? Are you talking about the hair on our head, literally?

If you're talking about hair literally, then as I look at Black women around the globe, I'm not seeing where hair texture, length, style, natural, traditionally styled, braided, plaited, permed, or in the case of some African women who shave their heads is making any significance difference in the quality of the lives of the women or their children, or of their ethnic group's success or failure. I don't see a significant indication that wearing natural hair means that the woman loves her natural black self or that she is teaching her daughters to love their natural selves. Many times, it's just a matter of tradition, convenience, or style. For ex., some women feel it's cool to wear their natural hair in locs, but will dye their locs blond or red. Some Black women are locking their daughters and sons hair because it's a style and not because of any other reason.

I think a mistake was made during the days of the big afros in thinking that just because Black people were wearing natural hair and saying that Black was beautiful, that people really believed it. Obviously a lot of them didn't. We know now that a lot of them were just doing the "hip" thing.

Some people still call us Afro-Americans from those days :lol: because our whole identity was in our hair and apparently not in our brains. If people really feel proud about themselves, it will be reflected in a bunch of other much more important ways.

So, I'm not seeing the where hair is that significant. Maybe, I'm totally missing your point and in that case, I'll just bow out.

Sister Riada ... i don't want you to bow out. I'm just presenting this for discussion and consideration. I could be totally wrong, and if so, i want to hear those arguments as well. It's not like i can prove what i'm saying will benefit us collectively, but i think it can.

I'm suggesting, maybe there is more to this than meets the eye.

This discussion is about us loving ourselves, our hair in particular, that which we've been told, is our crown and glory. That which we spend billions of dollars, and hundreds of hours on each year, to chemically alter. Yes, on the surface it might appear to be a trivial thing, yet it manifests itself across the landscape for all to see, from the richest to the poorest of Black Women.

It may mean absolutely nothing, that Mothers virtually teach their daughters that they are not pretty as they are, by chemically changing their hair, soon after birth (we're the only ones that do this). It may be of no consequence at all, that there are no commercials or advertisements with little Black Girls (or Black Adult Women) with their naturally coiled hair, even though we're all born with it. The fact that there are no Black women, in any great number, on television, in the news, or anywhere to be seen ... that represent us (publicly) in our natural beauty, could just be happenstance. This could all simply be coincidence, and mean absolutely nothing, with no adverse effect on us collectively. I'm willing to consider these arguments.

Or it could mean something. I think it means something. I think there is a telling story in this manifestation that we are all witnessing. Walking around with hair blowing in the wind, down to our behinds, like we were born with it. Is this fake? Is this phony? Does that make us fake and phony? Or have we been convinced that it is "just beauty and fashion," with no underlying psychological issues motivating the choices? When most Black Families are struggling to survive, we spend BILLIONS on our hair, to make it look other than what we were born with. I think this means something Sister, more than fashion and beauty. If nothing else, it tells us clearly, that we are not beautiful (as we are) ... which is terrible ... in my opinion, for us to continue putting this on our BEAUTIFUL BLACK DAUGHTERS for any reason, to get a man, or otherwise!

Our loving our own selves may not reap the harvest that i envision, but it has to do some good, more than what is being done now, by hiding our real selves. I'm willing to give on this. Willing to say, okay, it's not the end all and be all solution, to our problems, but to what degree might it help us?

If we could do it, do you think it would hurt us or help us (in any way)?

Are you saying this is not telling information about Black Women?

Are you saying this has nothing to do with how Black Women view themselves and their Daughters?

Are you saying that teaching little Black Girls to love themselves, won't affect how little Black Boys love them?

We don't have to agree Sister, i just want us to begin looking at it objectively, if possible.

:heart:

Destee

Sister Riada ... i don't want you to bow out. I'm just presenting this for discussion and consideration. I could be totally wrong, and if so, i want to hear those arguments as well. It's not like i can prove what i'm saying will benefit us collectively, but i think it can.

I'm suggesting, maybe there is more to this than meets the eye.

This discussion is about us loving ourselves, our hair in particular, that which we've been told, is our crown and glory. That which we spend billions of dollars, and hundreds of hours on each year, to chemically alter. Yes, on the surface it might appear to be a trivial thing, yet it manifests itself across the landscape for all to see, from the richest to the poorest of Black Women.

It may mean absolutely nothing, that Mothers virtually teach their daughters that they are not pretty as they are, by chemically changing their hair, soon after birth (we're the only ones that do this). It may be of no consequence at all, that there are no commercials or advertisements with little Black Girls (or Black Adult Women) with their naturally coiled hair, even though we're all born with it. The fact that there are no Black women, in any great number, on television, in the news, or anywhere to be seen ... that represent us (publicly) in our natural beauty, could just be happenstance. This could all simply be coincidence, and mean absolutely nothing, with no adverse effect on us collectively. I'm willing to consider these arguments.

Or it could mean something. I think it means something. I think there is a telling story in this manifestation that we are all witnessing. Walking around with hair blowing in the wind, down to our behinds, like we were born with it. Is this fake? Is this phony? Does that make us fake and phony? Or have we been convinced that it is "just beauty and fashion," with no underlying psychological issues motivating the choices? When most Black Families are struggling to survive, we spend BILLIONS on our hair, to make it look other than what we were born with. I think this means something Sister, more than fashion and beauty. If nothing else, it tells us clearly, that we are not beautiful (as we are) ... which is terrible ... in my opinion, for us to continue putting this on our BEAUTIFUL BLACK DAUGHTERS for any reason, to get a man, or otherwise!

Our loving our own selves may not reap the harvest that i envision, but it has to do some good, more than what is being done now, by hiding our real selves. I'm willing to give on this. Willing to say, okay, it's not the end all and be all solution, to our problems, but to what degree might it help us?

If we could do it, do you think it would hurt us or help us (in any way)?

Are you saying this is not telling information about Black Women?

Are you saying this has nothing to do with how Black Women view themselves and their Daughters?

Are you saying that teaching little Black Girls to love themselves, won't affect how little Black Boys love them?

We don't have to agree Sister, i just want us to begin looking at it objectively, if possible.

:heart:

Destee

http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/7059/hndgoldnr9.jpg

Sister Spicy ... this may be true ... but this isn't really about what Brothers want.

It's about what Sisters are doing. We are wearing hair down to our booty, like we were born that way.

I'm suggesting that they will want what we (Mothers / Sisters) give and show them.

Sister Spicy ... i thought of something else kinda cute and applicable.

Again, it's not really about what Brothers (Sons) want.

For example ... our children may want McDonald's every night for dinner, but we take them home to that pot of greens and pan of cornbread. They moan and groan about it, but when they get old ... what do they want? They want somebody who can cook a pot of greens and a pan of cornbread!

Same thing Sister.

They don't know what they want, until we teach them.

That's the kind of power we as Mothers and Sisters have, in the lives of Black Men, and i think we've been under-estimating it.

:heart:

Destee

Sister Spicy ... now you know i love you ... but jes ezaklee who's Momma you call'n a Mammy!??

Gurl ... you know them is some fight'n words! ... but since i love you, i won't shoot you ... :lol:
I guess I'm an oldhead for using terms like that. Must be the southern lingo I picked up from my "pappy" (father). No offense intended, and I sincerely apologize to all who were offended.

But no Sister, we must be very careful how we view our Mothers, and those before us, regarding this and other like situations. See, we're in a very precarious position, as it's easy for us to go left or right, but we must remain balanced. We've been so manipulated by these people, every aspect of our being, including life and death. Considering the hell they had our Ancestors under, there's no telling what one might do or not do. Mothers before us, including our own, most often did what they had to. They did it so successfully, that we are now here, able to carry the torch a little further. Without their doing, we may not have survived. Now is not the time for Monday morning arm chair quarterbacking. We must believe they did what they thought was best. However bad it was, we're here, alive and well, able to see things they didn't see, experience stuff they never could, change things they may not have even been aware of. It is because of them we are here ... and because of us, the choices we make now ... our children can be further along than we are, able to see more, and do better.

I know you meant no real harm Sister ... but i'm on a mission ... and i appreciate you joining me! :wink:

Much Love and Peace.

:heart:

Destee
Nonetheless, I do empathize with those who harbor sentiments such as yours. I guess this is somewhat of an intangible topic for me, as I have no sons to model said behavior for, my daughter and I are natural, and on top of that, my s/o is neutral on the hair-troversy. He embraces all styles (fake, real, long, short, blond, brunette, kinky, straight, and anything in between)... as long as it looks presentable.

Yes, Black mothers, who don't embrace their natural beauty can inadvertently work to their own detriment. Then again, it's like: which of our community's dilemmas do we assail first? Do we look at impacting external forces, or does the problem lie solely within the community? It seems so trivial to me, because I have overcome a plethora of obstacles, and battling over whether or not to wear my natural tresses was the least of my priorities; granted I have no sons. Truth be told, there's only so much a Black mother can do to derail her sons from praising foreign beauty standards over his own. I have seen die-hard Afrocentric mothers literally in tears because their sons brought non-Black women home. There's the media, peer pressure, and "preferences" that fit snug into the equation.

Peace

Destee, I definitely think that it's always better to accept anyone as they are naturally--not try to change them, and if they can't be accepted as they are, just leave them alone if they not hurting anyone. So, I'm certainly with you there about it just being wonderful to be embraced just as we are and just as we were made. Of course, it would do lots of good.

My point is that I wouldn't want to set Black women up for disappointment. I'll bet you that some Black women have actually gone natural just based on the number of Black men who say here on your forum that they want a natural-haired Black woman. Why do I say disappointment? There are many Black women these days who would do just about anything to get a Black man to love them, be with them, and nobody else but them. There are Black women out there right now having sex with Black men who refuse to wear condoms, but in each case, she's thinking that maybe, just maybe he'll be "her man" after he's finished. So going natural would be an easy decision for them to do if there's a reasonable chance that their expectation will be met to get a man of their own. That's why I answered the way I did.

In general, what you've said would be wonderful. Just look at all the money, time, and energy alone that would be saved. I agree that there is too much emotional energy invested in hair and other surface things by Black men and Black women. Too much emphasis is put on the "outside" of themselves versus the "inside."

We are losing at this because we don't have a culture that functions to meet our needs, so we're just using band-aids to make us feel better from moment to moment and day to day. Until we actually build a culture to meet our various needs, it'll just be more of the same.


I most definately agree with you here!

Sister Riada ... i don't want you to bow out. I'm just presenting this for discussion and consideration. I could be totally wrong, and if so, i want to hear those arguments as well. It's not like i can prove what i'm saying will benefit us collectively, but i think it can.

I'm suggesting, maybe there is more to this than meets the eye.

This discussion is about us loving ourselves, our hair in particular, that which we've been told, is our crown and glory. That which we spend billions of dollars, and hundreds of hours on each year, to chemically alter. Yes, on the surface it might appear to be a trivial thing, yet it manifests itself across the landscape for all to see, from the richest to the poorest of Black Women.

It may mean absolutely nothing, that Mothers virtually teach their daughters that they are not pretty as they are, by chemically changing their hair, soon after birth (we're the only ones that do this). It may be of no consequence at all, that there are no commercials or advertisements with little Black Girls (or Black Adult Women) with their naturally coiled hair, even though we're all born with it. The fact that there are no Black women, in any great number, on television, in the news, or anywhere to be seen ... that represent us (publicly) in our natural beauty, could just be happenstance. This could all simply be coincidence, and mean absolutely nothing, with no adverse effect on us collectively. I'm willing to consider these arguments.

Or it could mean something. I think it means something. I think there is a telling story in this manifestation that we are all witnessing. Walking around with hair blowing in the wind, down to our behinds, like we were born with it. Is this fake? Is this phony? Does that make us fake and phony? Or have we been convinced that it is "just beauty and fashion," with no underlying psychological issues motivating the choices? When most Black Families are struggling to survive, we spend BILLIONS on our hair, to make it look other than what we were born with. I think this means something Sister, more than fashion and beauty. If nothing else, it tells us clearly, that we are not beautiful (as we are) ... which is terrible ... in my opinion, for us to continue putting this on our BEAUTIFUL BLACK DAUGHTERS for any reason, to get a man, or otherwise!

Our loving our own selves may not reap the harvest that i envision, but it has to do some good, more than what is being done now, by hiding our real selves. I'm willing to give on this. Willing to say, okay, it's not the end all and be all solution, to our problems, but to what degree might it help us?

If we could do it, do you think it would hurt us or help us (in any way)?

Are you saying this is not telling information about Black Women?

Are you saying this has nothing to do with how Black Women view themselves and their Daughters?

Are you saying that teaching little Black Girls to love themselves, won't affect how little Black Boys love them?

We don't have to agree Sister, i just want us to begin looking at it objectively, if possible.

:heart:

Destee

Destee, this is just my take on things but it depends on what the actual objective is for promoting natural hair for Black women. The condition that Black folks are in is due to a very multi-faceted problem. Hair, to me, is a relatively small aspect. What about complexion? I think that the aversion to dark skin is one of the absolute worst problems worldwide that we Black folks have if I had to rank them. I agree with Kola Boof and other writers about this phenomenon of how many Black men, worldwide, are mating with white women because they're trying to get rid of the melanin or erase the image of themselves.

Most of this has to do with Black males not having power. I think that many Black males worldwide have made themaybe unconscious decision that if you can't beat them, join them, and in order to more easily join white folks, you need to look more like them or have your children look more like them. Power, the lack of it, not using our power, lack of unity are the bottom line problems for Black people, no matter how I twist and turn the Black plight in this country or look at in it other Black places.

Also, wherever you travel in the world, whereever Black males can get white females or females who don't look typically Black, they are increasingly flocking towards them and these males can be from places where they grew up around Black women wearing natural, nappy hair and only a tiny percentage of the women ever permed their hair. This is why I'm not quite getting your point.

Chemicals are poisonous and trying to bend people into something they're not is something I would never endorse. That is harmful. So yes, I certainly agree it would be wonderful if no chemicals ever touched a Black woman, girl or boy's head (some Black boys and men are get relaxers too like Al Sharpton), but as long as there is such unequal power in the world, I don't think that Black women wearing their hair naturally will improve conditions for Black people. My assumption is that uplifting Black folks is your point for promoting natural hair.

So that's the gist of the way I see it.

I guess I'm an oldhead for using terms like that. Must be the southern lingo I picked up from my "pappy" (father). No offense intended, and I sincerely apologize to all who were offended.

Sister Spicy ... no offense taken, and no apology necessary. We are all here learning together. It is terms like "Mammy" and "Nappy Headed Hoes" that shape our thoughts right now, as it relates to our own beauty as women ... so it's quite appropriate (and appreciated), that you mentioned it here. Notice in the image below, her hair is covered / hidden.

I went and found some historical information regarding "Mammy," it's from the Jim Crow Museum of Racist Memorabilia (http://www.ferris.edu/jimcrow/mammies/) :

The Mammy Caricature

http://destee.com/images/mammy.jpg

Mammy is the most well known and enduring racial caricature of African American women. The Jim Crow Museum at Ferris State University has more than 100 items with the mammy image, including ashtrays, souvenirs, postcards, fishing lures, detergent, artistic prints, toys, candles, and kitchenware. This article examines real mammies, fictional mammies, and commercial mammies. More Mammy Pictures (http://www.ferris.edu/jimcrow/mammies/more/)

Real Mammies

From slavery through the Jim Crow era, the mammy image served the political, social, and economic interests of mainstream white America. During slavery, the mammy caricature was posited as proof that blacks -- in this case, black women -- were contented, even happy, as slaves. Her wide grin, hearty laugher, and loyal servitude were offered as evidence of the supposed humanity of the institution of slavery.

This was the mammy caricature, and, like all caricatures, it contained a little truth surrounded by a larger lie. The caricature portrayed an obese, coarse, maternal figure. She had great love for her white "family," but often treated her own family with disdain. Although she had children, sometimes many, she was completely desexualized. She "belonged" to the white family, though it was rarely stated. Unlike Sambo, she was a faithful worker. She had no black friends; the white family was her entire world. Obviously, the mammy caricature was more myth than accurate portrayal.

Click Here For More - The Jim Crow Museum at Ferris State University (http://www.ferris.edu/jimcrow/mammies/)


Nonetheless, I do empathize with those who harbor sentiments such as yours. I guess this is somewhat of an intangible topic for me, as I have no sons to model said behavior for, my daughter and I are natural, and on top of that, my s/o is neutral on the hair-troversy. He embraces all styles (fake, real, long, short, blond, brunette, kinky, straight, and anything in between)... as long as it looks presentable.

Sister Spicy ... again you've added a great point to this discussion, that i can elaborate on! :D

See Sister ... i think what you've said above is key! They have us looking at ourselves individually, and determining it really has nothing to do with us, but it does have something to do with us! All Of Us! It's a collective energy we need now, not individual. When we can look across the landscape, and see what is happening to MOST ALL LITTLE BLACK GIRLS, then whether it touches us specifically or not, is the intangible part. If it doesn't touch you, then you're blessed beyond compare! But that doesn't mean we can't see the collective damage being done. It's like prison. I don't have a Son or Father there, but i can clearly see the collective damage it's doing to our people, and cannot consider myself free from it. Ya know Sister?


Yes, Black mothers, who don't embrace their natural beauty can inadvertently work to their own detriment. Then again, it's like: which of our community's dilemmas do we assail first? Do we look at impacting external forces, or does the problem lie solely within the community? It seems so trivial to me, because I have overcome a plethora of obstacles, and battling over whether or not to wear my natural tresses was the least of my priorities; granted I have no sons. Truth be told, there's only so much a Black mother can do to derail her sons from praising foreign beauty standards over his own. I have seen die-hard Afrocentric mothers literally in tears because their sons brought non-Black women home. There's the media, peer pressure, and "preferences" that fit snug into the equation. Peace

Sister Spicy ... you're right, there's no guarantee how a child will turn out, no matter what a parent does ... but again ... my focus is on us collectively. You're also right in that we have so many issues to focus on, how does one decide which to do first. Well, since you asked ... :) ... i think we should start where we can. Do the things you can do. I'll do the things i can do. That might be working on the outside, or the inside, doesn't matter ... so long as we are all working for our collective good.

Now, with this particular issue ... this is something that doesn't cost any money, in fact, we'll save billions of dollars collectively ... we'll instill in our daughters, the courage to think themselves beautiful, just as they are. We will give our Sons to know, that from whence they came, is the very best. While this could be considered a trivial matter, the impact of our doing it collectively, would be immense. We'd be turning the tide. We'd be saying, no more. I think it would be POWERFUL, and it's all within our reach. Simply having the courage to love ourselves, in front of the whole wide world ... which we don't do right now.

Thanks for taking part in this discussion Sister!

:heart:

Destee

Destee, this is just my take on things but it depends on what the actual objective is for promoting natural hair for Black women. The condition that Black folks are in is due to a very multi-faceted problem. Hair, to me, is a relatively small aspect. What about complexion? I think that the aversion to dark skin is one of the absolute worst problems worldwide that we Black folks have if I had to rank them. I agree with Kola Boof and other writers about this phenomenon of how many Black men, worldwide, are mating with white women because they're trying to get rid of the melanin or erase the image of themselves.

Sister Riada ... the actual objective for promoting natural hair for Black women ... is for us to recognize why we don't (collectively) wear our hair natural, what it is historically rooted in, and denounce it. This would be a first. To say that we will no longer hate ourselves, as a result of the historical conditioning put upon us. To say that we will give our daughters to know, that they are BEAUTIFUL, just as they are ... letting the chips fall where they may.

Yes, it could be considered a small aspect, compared to others. But we have so many to fix, why not fix the little stuff first, if it is in fact small. I don't think it's small. I think it will be a great challenge for Black Women to love themselves the way God made them. If it were easy to do, we'd see more of it. It's not easy, or little, in my opinion.

You've mentioned our Beloved Sister Kola Boof a couple of times, and let me say that i simply adore her! Again, there are probably many reasons why Brothers get with white chicks, and i'm not suggesting that this will be the answer to them all, though i think it is a step in the right direction.

You're right Sister, as it relates to complexion. This is another issue of ours, that we must overcome, rooted in the same stuff our hair issue is. I've spoke on this a few times, even starting a thread a year ago titled, Celebrating Dark Black People (http://destee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42092). The difference between this issue, and our hair issue, is that we can point directly to most every Black Woman in America ... and see her perpetuating this upon her children. The complexion issue is not as clearly defined. We can't point to it as easily, saying ... see ... look what you're doing collectively! With this being the case, i think the hair issue is easier to fix, but as i said to Sister Spicy, whether you're working on fixing this issue or another makes no difference, so long as you're working.


Most of this has to do with Black males not having power. I think that many Black males worldwide have made themaybe unconscious decision that if you can't beat them, join them, and in order to more easily join white folks, you need to look more like them or have your children look more like them. Power, the lack of it, not using our power, lack of unity are the bottom line problems for Black people, no matter how I twist and turn the Black plight in this country or look at in it other Black places.

Sister Riada ... how can Black Women altering their very being, be about Black Men?

Black Men don't really fit into this equation (significantly), when Black Women are committing the act. I mean, i'm all for calling a spade a spade, but this one isn't on Brothers. It's Sisters doing this. Sisters walking around with hair down to their booty, emulating white women. It's Sisters that spend billions each year to straighten their hair. It's Sisters who are saying, i'm not pretty unless i do this. If this isn't about Black Women, what is?

How are you putting this on the Brothers?


Also, wherever you travel in the world, whereever Black males can get white females or females who don't look typically Black, they are increasingly flocking towards them and these males can be from places where they grew up around Black women wearing natural, nappy hair and only a tiny percentage of the women ever permed their hair. This is why I'm not quite getting your point.

Right Sister ... it's happening everywhere, and i'm suggesting that we may be a part of the problem, as well as the solution.


Chemicals are poisonous and trying to bend people into something they're not is something I would never endorse. That is harmful. So yes, I certainly agree it would be wonderful if no chemicals ever touched a Black woman, girl or boy's head (some Black boys and men are get relaxers too like Al Sharpton), but as long as there is such unequal power in the world, I don't think that Black women wearing their hair naturally will improve conditions for Black people. My assumption is that uplifting Black folks is your point for promoting natural hair.

So that's the gist of the way I see it.

Yes Yes Yes ... uplifting Black Folk ... Black Women and Girls in particular, is my point.

:heart:

Destee

I don't have anything to add that hasn't already been said, but I totally agree w/ you Destee.

I don't have anything to add that hasn't already been said, but I totally agree w/ you Destee.

Sister Blackeyes ... Hello and Welcome ... :wave:

Thanks for sharing!

:heart:

Destee